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Feelin' Lucky? Just Keep Spinning! - Plutus Pops Follow Along (37)

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Feelin' Lucky? Just Keep Spinning! - Plutus Pops Follow Along


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Hi,

This my new pops follow-along.

Let me share some short background about myself and let's get going.

I'm living in PL. I'm doing coding for living in my 9-5 job. I started doing AM month and a half ago and I finished Amy's 40 Day Guide yesterday. Previous follow along: https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...Guide-(Voluum)

I'll be using ClickDealer/Mobidea sweepstakes/leadgen offers + PropellerAds/PopAds as traffic sources and Voluum as a tracker when starting out.

I want to use this post to list my goals for the next six months doing Pops so if you are looking for some campaigns and progress insights... not this time (we will get there pretty pretty soon, no worries)

My main goal is to save up around 2500$ from the raw profit to give Facebook advertisement a shot.

In case I reach that income earlier I'll focus on Facebook, leaving pops as side hustle.

Goals:

☒ G̶e̶t̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶f̶i̶t̶a̶b̶l̶e̶ ̶d̶a̶y̶ ̶(̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶c̶a̶m̶p̶a̶i̶g̶n̶s̶)̶ - 11th November 2020 - HERE
☐ Get profitable 3 days (all campaigns)
☐ Get profitable week (all campaigns)
☐ Get profitable month (all campaigns)
☒ G̶e̶t̶ ̶1̶$̶/̶d̶a̶y̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶f̶i̶t̶ - 11th November 2020 - HERE
☐ Get 5$/day profit
☐ Get 10$/day profit
☐ Get 25$/day profit
☐ Get 50$/day profit
☐ Get 100$/day profit
☐ Cover all recurring costs like tracker, STM, spy tools from the campaigns profit
☐ Get profitable month after covering up all recurring costs
☐ Get 100$/month raw profit (after excluding recurring costs)
☐ Get 250$/month raw profit (after excluding recurring costs)
☐ Get 500$/month raw profit (after excluding recurring costs)
☐ Get 1000$/month raw profit (after excluding recurring costs)
☐ Cover all previous costs (unprofitable campaigns included) and get profitable when comparing stats from the Day 1 in AM - Now
☐ Save 2500$ from the raw profits to spend it for Facebook advertisements
☐ Read 6 advertising/copywriting books (3/6)

1. D̶r̶e̶w̶ ̶E̶r̶i̶c̶ ̶W̶h̶i̶t̶m̶a̶n̶ ̶-̶ ̶C̶a̶$̶h̶v̶e̶r̶t̶i̶s̶i̶n̶g - 18th October 2020
2. C̶l̶a̶u̶d̶e̶ ̶C̶.̶ ̶H̶o̶p̶k̶i̶n̶s̶ ̶-̶ ̶M̶y̶ ̶L̶i̶f̶e̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶A̶d̶v̶e̶r̶t̶i̶s̶i̶n̶g - 29th October 2020
3. C̶l̶a̶u̶d̶e̶ ̶C̶.̶ ̶H̶o̶p̶k̶i̶n̶s̶ ̶-̶ ̶S̶c̶i̶e̶n̶t̶i̶f̶i̶c̶ ̶A̶d̶v̶e̶r̶t̶i̶s̶i̶n̶g - 15th November 2020

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Good luck man, and why a new FA?

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Hey mantas, nice to have you here! Thanks for the encourgement.

Let me aswer your question below:

Previous FA was for Amy’s 40 day guide only (as name suggest) and this one will be more general and a bit longer. I’ll stay here until I reach my final goal of 2.5k$ profit to use on FB ads.

Someone may ask - plutus, why not going straight to fb ads instead?

Answer to this one is simple - if I won’t manage to get profitable campaigns on pops I doubt that I will find success on Facebook advertisements and as for now my pops campaigns weren’t successul at all.

So I am:
- giving myself some more time to learn and figure out AM
- getting prepared for a more advanced traffic type and preferably doing most of the newbie mistakes on pop
- challanging myself to get consistent profits on pop to cover my AM expanses. I know that it’s possible, saw people crushing it here on STM but I’m not there yet


Sent from my iPhone using STM Forums mobile app

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This is not necessarily true, in my opinion. There is one other person going through this decision at the moment here on the forum, check that thread too:

https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...l=1#post405818

To repeat the important part from the other thread: FB itself is not that complicated to run and the traffic is just good, when targeted properly of course. The only major problem there is the frequent bans and the hassle of obtaining new accounts, but if you can solve this... I mean, just because you didn't manage to make pops profitable, it doesn't mean you can't become very good at FB traffic.

Starting with POPs or push to learn the basics is a good idea of course, but there is a large world out there and not everyone is able to run everything, keep that in mind

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I agree but I think I might end up spending my whole AM budget (about 2.5k$ - 500$ already spent on pops) just to test if FB works.

I stated that 2.5k$ in my goals because I read through first post of Amy's FB tutorial and he recommended having at least 2k for testing.

I'd really like to break-even on pops before going to the FB.

To be honest I believed that I end up with some profitable campaigns before ending 40 day tutorial but I guess I'm not that kind of a smartass that I thought :P

Some stats from the last few days, I did some Haka offers on Bahamas, Cyprus, Palestine, Venezuela - no conversions through.



I also found a nice Palestine offer that I'm direct linking that have a video that is content locked and requires sms -63% when without any prior optimizations

And also - I think I did really dumb thing if it comes to ClickDealer - I was fixated on my two verticals Sweepstakes / Vouchers & Leadgen for the past month and a half and yesterday I decided to scroll over every offer available and it turned out that there is SHITLOAD of sweeps/leadgen offers from tier3/tier4 geo listed as "Mobile Content".

This opens window to the new opportunities, will keep you guys & girls updated.

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The thing is that in high tier geos sweep offers are mostly leadgens (SOI/DOI) or cc submits.

In lower tier geos however sweeps are often pin submits = carrier billing so that they count as mobile content.

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That is nice to know, and this enlightenment feeling I got after randomly figuring it out was kind of funny

Quick info about last few days:

I asked my AM for Mobile Content recommendation and got a list with PO >2$ on every single offer.

Up until now the highest offer I ran was 0.80 EUR PL voucher but I went further than that to see how it turns out.

I set up campaign for mobile sound app from Latvia (4$ payout) and game subscription offer from United Arab Emirates (5.6$ payout) that were on the list I got from my AM.

For Latvia I created 2 landing pages that contained offer header, list of sound effects, play button that played it and Share With Social media button (CTA, redirect to the offer page)

Lander 1:



Lander 2:



Both landers had 30-35% CTR but I received no conversion for a day and disabled this campaign.

For United Arab Emirates I also created 2 landing pages - one that was just copy-paste of one of Haka offers with click url adjustments and second with custom copy -

Lander 1:



Lander 2:



Volume was kind of low and CTR on both landers escalated on about 12-15%.

After 1 day running and spending 1xPO I paused AE campaign - 0 conversions

Stats from the last three days:



Thoughts?

1. It would be nice to make all landers more appealing / engaging.

2. I think that jumping on 2$> PO offers wasn't that good idea because to get more detailed results I would have to get both offers to 5-10xPO before cutting them off.

3. It is possible that both offers are working for others and that they are not using pops but something else.

No idea yet how to promote mobile content. I set up both camps to test working offers but without Adplexity subscription I was walking blindfolded.

I spent about 3-4 hours today signing up to every possible POP traffic source listed on the STM list to avoid scaling issues later on.

List of sources I'm in so far: PopAds, Zeropark, Propeller Ads, Ad Cash, Hilltop Ads, Clickadu, Adsterra, Rich Ads, Noviclick, RTX Platform, Plug Rush, myAppFree, Trending Bid

I also applied to every affiliate network that mentioned sweepstakes / mobile content to compare offers and payouts.

I'm going back to iphone/samsung sweeps after all - most of my ripped landers are for those kind of offers.

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Great creative approach for the Latvia landers.

The swordcraft lander for AE however has way too much text.

For mobile content it´s mostly best to use landers with very little text, a good image and a strong CTA.

It´s all about teasing the users a bit and getting a high CTR.

Your spend for the campaigns is also too low.

In the beginning it´s good to work with some kind of rules or formulas so that you don´t run random budgets on your campaigns.

A good formula is Number of landing pages x Number of offers x Average offer payout x 10 = Test budget.

When you don´t see any conversions after 50% of the test budget you can stop the test.

For LV the payout is $4 and you run 2 landers so the minimum spend should be at least $40.

The payout for the AE offer is $5.80 and you test 2 landers so the minimum spend should be $58.

Well, you never have a guarantee that offers that work for others work for you as well, even when you run the same traffic type.

Maybe others already have good BLs or WLs or so.

In the end there is only one way to find out if offers work for us -> Testing

Don´t worry about scaling yet, better take care about getting something running at all first.

It´s not good when you want to run on too many sources too fast, it´s better to learn one good source first, then another one and then scale step by step.

In the end 2-3 good sources are enough to run $xxx-$xxxx/day campaigns.

Same goes for CPA networks.

When you run traffic to too many networks you risk that you don´t reach the payment threashold and then you have sitting cash in different networks and can´t cash out.

It´s better to generate more revenue per network on only 1-2 platforms instead of sending the same total revenue split across many different platforms.

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Nice landers! However: Have you tested the offers via direct-linking? Many of these types of offers can convert better when direct-linked.

Landers are great, but they're a double-edged sword. On the one hand they can presell the visitor so that they'd be more likely to convert when they land on the offer, but on the other hand they add an additional step and therefore another opportunity for the visitor to bail.

So - if either a)the lander doesn't do a good enough job of preselling the visitor to offset the harm of adding that additional step to the funnel, or b)the offer doesn't need preselling in the first place, then direct-linking may work better.

Wouldn't hurt to split-test!



Amy

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Thanks for confirming. I wasn't sure about it when setting it up, it's not aggressive at all and blends with offer page almost 1:1, never tried something like that before and wanted to give it a shot

I remade AE LP to dynamically load background url, CTA on my lander looks almost the same as the one on the offer.

I prepared 3 variations:







teasing = tities right? There is also one with a knight (since its SWORD craft)

I relaunched both campaigns - LV without any additional improvements and AE with three variations listed above.

I already spent 3.20$ on LV and since I didn't change anything at all I'm giving it another 17$ to convert at least once.

If it comes to AE - I spent 6$ on previous landers and since I'm starting from the scratch with new variants and I'm leaving previous LPs behind I need to reset testing budget - so giving it 29$ to convert.

I'm leaving both camps for a night and time will show how it turned out.

Okay, I've already topped up Clickadu and Pop Ads before so will just stick with that + Propeller as main TS for now

Sure. My plan is to get first 500$ payout out of Clickdealer in the next month before switching to anything else.

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AE offer page doesn't look that much appealing to convert when direct linking.

I set up direct link campaign for LV and I'm leaving everything for a night.

Will keep you updated, thanks for a valuable feedback!

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Stats from the last day:



second AE lander converted once and that's all I've got.

LV - nothing at all, 14$~ left out of the testing budget - there isn't a lot of traffic available there and campaign is getting only about 5k impressions daily.

Thoughts?

1. I think that "Subscribe Now" might not be the best CTA text - this out of the box implies that there is some kind of money transaction involved which might scare people off and lower CTR
2.
I spent about 48$ on AE and got only one conversion (5.6$ payout).

Every zone spent less than 1x payout so there isn't much I can do right now besides spending even more on campaign.

Question is - is this campaign worth running further given current circumstances?

One conversion is not enough to cut out rest of the landers and is also not enough to say if campaign have any potential at all.

EDIT:

I updated CTA's to "Try It For FREE" and added slight margin to make it look better.

I'm leaving it for another night.

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Oh no, doesn´t have to be titties or so.

Basically just telling the users a roughly what the offer is a about to get him curious and then redirect to the offer.

The numbers I mentioned are already 50% of the test budget you would calculate with the formula.

You don´t do yourself a favor when you set the test budget too low.

When you don´t run enough volume so that each combination received enough traffic you are left with worthless tests = wasted money in worst case.

That´s why it´s always good to make a quick pre-check before you run campaigns if the campaigs are worth it or not.

For example for the AE campaign, minimum test budget when you see conversions should be around $116 in case you use the formula above.

It only makes sense to run the campaign when there is enough traffic available to make enough profits to compensate the test costs in short time once the campaign runs on profit.

In other words, it wouldn´t make sense to run campaigns with a calculated test budget of $116 when the volume is so low that the daily revenue potential is only $15 or so.

This is a rather extreme example but I hope you get what I mean

Don´t judge by how it looks for you.

Only tests can tell if they convert or not.

You can have offer pages that look fantastic but don´t convert at all and you can have offer pages that look like shit but convert like crazy.

It´s true that mobile content offers can convert direct linked when the offer page itself is good but for me a reason to use simple LPs for high CTR is because they often load faster than the offer page itself.

In the end it all comes down to testing, is it better to run direct linked and sacrifice some conversions because of trafficloss because of slow loading times or is it better to sacrifice volume to the offer when you run landing pages but therefor you have less trafficloss in the beginning because of faster loading times.

Yes, something like "Click Here" or "Play NOW" is better, it´s all about high CTR.

Well, AE can be good, there are good carrier billings from time to time and there is also good volume.

But the payouts are rather high so I would recommend to start with lower payouts.

That way you can learn how to run campaigns on less budget.

For AE and other arabic geos it can also help to test offers from specific advertisers.

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Okay I get it. I should think long-term and take into consideration potential daily profits for the traffic amount available after optimization.


Yes, after re-reading my post yesterday I started to think that I might be making some serious pre-assumptions and launched it direct linked aaand... it turned out much more better with 2 conversions after about 20$ spent without any adjustments.

If Propeller traffic estimator is somehow accurate I am bidding on about 1mil impressions/day.

After optimization and cutting out 75%~ of the traffic I will still bid on about 250k impressions a day so this should be sufficient enough to get out profitable and cover testing expenses.

Traffic is also cheap - about 1$ per mile.

I stopped AE + LP campaign and I'm running offer direct linked only at the moment.

I also stopped LV - daily impressions amount is just too low.

Stats from the last two days:



I finished Cashvertising yesterday.

There was a nice sentence at the end: "In advertising it's not clever to be clever"

Good tip! I'll do more tests in the following days with lower payout offers.

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So glad it worked out for you!

The lesson learned here is that for offers with really simple conversion flows, it's almost always worth it to test direct-linking. If you're testing landing pages anyways, why not just throw in the direct-linking as another test candidate.

That camp looks promising with -50%+ ROI. Have you tried to drill down into the various stats to look for optimization opportunities?


Thanks for the reminder - that's a very important thing to keep in mind indeed.

I found that out the hard way as well - after a ton of cash spent on testing copy.

At first I was surprised that nobody seemed to appreciated my wit - until I started looking at other people's ads from the perspective of the audience. When I see an ad I MAY give it one second of my attention at the most, before returning to my original task (browsing the net, my FB feed, whatever). If during that fraction of a second my brain doesn't understand VERY clearly what the ad is saying, or if it doesn't look like it's super-relevant to me, I would move on.

One major thing to point out here is that people are VISUAL creatures. So in ads where an image or video is shown, THAT is what will capture visitors' attention to make them stop and read the ad and hopefully click through. This is why I always focus on getting the image/video right first and foremost, while using very straight-forward copy (headline and ad text). Once I nail down at least one great image/video, I would split-test copy again, but not before.

But I guess none of this is very relevant to pop traffic. I'm thinking more about Facebook.



Amy

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Stats from yesterday:

Iphone turned out profitable after drilling down stats from yesterday. I set up fresh two campaigns - one for wifi and other for carrier, -8$ at the moment but I'm giving it some more time to warm up.


I feel you. I'm super logical man and the more I go into advertising in general (not only AM) the more I realize that I'm overthinking stuff and taking wrong approach.

In the end all it matters is to bring some value into people's life.

I know that it's kind of ironic for me to say that while running most annoying traffic type but for me pops are just temporary learning solution.

I started reading My Life In Advertising by Claude C. Hopkins and I have to say that I respect him a lot.

Thanks for sharing that. Facebook is the next big thing I want to approach so it's worth remembering.

For now I'm leaving those AE camps running to see if my brand optimization did a job.

I'm going back to the lower payout sweepstake offers.

I'm starting to get what you guys meant by saying to run lower payout first - testing 5$ offer is the same as testing 0.50$ offer but requires 10x more budget.

This was pricey lesson to learn but I'm not that much scared anymore of lower payouts and seeing -6$ or so in profits like I was before.

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Yup, overthinking is not good for effective workflow.

Taking action is the only way to go

The thing is that the whole process of testing, optimizing and scaling campaigns on pops/push is more or less the same for $0.10 payout offers and $500 payout offers.

So when you can learn the stuff in a safer environment it can help alot to safe money.

When you then move on to more expensive offers you already know all that stuff so that it will be easier for you.

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Bringing value into people's life - that's what I'm doing at the moment. Will share when the time is right. We marketers can do a lot of good in the world too. I admire the fact that you came to this realization so early on in your affiliate marketing career.

And especially if you're planning on going into FB, the word VALUE should be the main focus - because it's FB's main focus. They're banning ad accounts like crazy these days. Seems to me the only way to survive in the long run is to provide real value (ethics/morals aside).

I looked up that book - wow what an oldie! Does it have any practical advice on advertising?



Amy

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It would be great to work together on some fb campaigns in the future.

I'm pushing hard at the moment to POP myself into that reality (pun intended)

On the other side I admire the way you approach things and your excitement. That is contagious!

I'm hearing all over the place of fb account bans. This worries me a bit but I believe that affiliates already invented shitload of ways to stay under the radar.

It's biographical book that Hopkins wrote to describe his advertising journey.

He was total pioneer back then and a lot of advertising later on was based upon things that he built during his lifespan

The book I have actually consist two of his tittles - My Life in Advertising & Scientific Advertising - former one is a biography and latter is his scientific approach to advertising - some chapter names FYI: Offer Service, Headlines, Psychology, Being Specific, Tell Your Full Story, Art in Advertising, Test Campaigns

I'll leave quick update of the last few days:



AE after targeting iphones-only did not convert.

I decided to stop running this campaign any further to avoid unnecessary costs.

I found out that one of the affiliate networks that I applied to got a service which allow you to choose pre-lander for use in your campaign.

And guys. Those landers are the best quality I saw until now. No jittering. No shitty graphics. Smooth animations. Spinning wheel, giftbox, survey, casino spin, they have it all.

Want to know how good they are?

Imagine that you are living in flooded basement with plaster falling off the wall and huge rats walking around and eating all of your food, leaving nothing behind them besides stinking extrements. And then, suddenly, you move to the highest floor of 5 star hotel with shiny towels, golden pillars, colorful paintings and your own service. That kind of good.

I'll be testing them alongside ones I have already fixed in the next few days.

I applied to about 100+ iphone 11/12 offers on Clickdealer with payout lower than 2$.

My AM even asked me what is going on lol. This will be a lot of clicking to accept all.

Clickdealer is huge AN, they must have some kind of accept all button, right? RIGHT?

I'm getting landers stuff sorted out - translating them to first 4 most recognized official languages in the world - English, French, Arabic, Spanish based on wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...icial_language

I'm working on fix for two more landers today and I'll mass test offers until I find my way to success.

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Don´t do it that way.

Pick something that you want to run, apply for offers you can run right away, run campaigns.

If you need more offers or want to run something else repeat.

When you apply for too many offers where you only send traffic to 30% or so of the offers your AM will only have unneeded additional work and won´t be that satisfied about approving offers in bulk when you don´t send enough in return then.

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Makes sense. I was just blindly clicking everything to have bunch of variations I can test. I just messaged my AM and asked to accept only 3 geos for now.

I'll post results in the next few days.

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Always keep in your mind that stuff like approving offers also makes additional work for your AM.

Often beginners make more work and send less revenue than experienced or high volume affiliates.

When you then don´t send anything back or only promote a fraction of the offers you applied for it looks like your AM is working for nothing with you

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Well... shit.

My AM just accepted EVERYTHING.

Now the biggest challenge yet so far approaches.

Am I worried? The fuck I am.

Chances to give up: 0 percent

I plan to hit JO and SG first.






Sent from my iPhone using STM Forums mobile app

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Stats from Oct 25 - Oct 28



I found out that the giftbox lander is performing the best.

I made a black variation using Apple color-palette and logo, added it to already running camp and got conversion almost instantly.

CTR boost was close to +15% compared to the previous versions but my campaign was rejected shortly after - "No brand logos must be used"

I tried with horizontal-flip - same result, another reject

I left only flipped logo, without a text - reject

So I removed logo completely and ended up with this - got it approved:



I made few variations. Waiting for results

Thoughts:
As far as I understand the strictest policies that end up with campaign rejection are related to misuse of brand logo - even if its deformed and not exactly 1:1

I had no prior difficulties with any misuse of product (does something like that even exist?), like adding iphone image to my lander.

I got a nice link with all of the Propeller's campaign requirements listed - I'll base further landers adjustments on that.

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It´s great to see that you put much extra effort into your landers.

This can be a good advantage over others

Mostly it doesn´t matter if the logo is flipped or otherwise deformed - as long as it´s clear what logo it is it mostly won´t get approved.

It´s a whole different story with product images, there the rules are much more lenient.

A good trick is when you try to use similar look of the original websites but don´t use exact clones.

Then users still feel somewhat familiar with it but you don´t have to face rejections that much.

A good example is Facebook, landing pages with FB logo would be rejected right away but landing pages that look somehow like FB are good to run and users still think immediatly of FB when they see it although FB isn´t even mentioned there.

Btw, HERE you can get my version of the gift box landers so feel free to check it out

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What about more advanced funnels? Let's say I point users to simple HTML page with only link "CLICK HERE" that redirects someone to the lander that contains branding logos.

Would a thing like this still get disapproved? As far as I see it on a tracker an automatic tool is only visiting a page, not making any clicks.

I saw it before, nice share. I'm going to test it in the following days alongside my creations.

It's nice that you are sharing your working lander with the community - so many new people here are struggling with web basics.

If there is still some place - maybe add it to your comment?

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Maybe it could be approved first but when you have bsically just a blank page with "Click Here" link it could also easily attract attention.

When you the get caught it could have harder consequences than just getting a lander rejected because they could see it that you try to cheat the system.

Yup, especially in the beginning probably every little extra support you get can help.

If comment = signature then consider it done

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Another one got rejected lol:



Reject reason:



I based that LP on one of the @maynzie LPs from 2011 - this kind of approach might not be valid anymore, but was worth testing (I liked that idea ).

I extended the LP flow tho - after Clicking "Click Here" a gitboxes appeared, and then when Iphone popped up user had to finish captcha (what is 2 + 6) to proceed.

I matched captcha button styles with the one on the offer.

I made the flow that much complicated because I'm running only one SG offer at the moment - the best performing one according to my AM.

And that offer have following heading "You May Now Enter The Draw & Secure Your Chance Win the Latest iPhone!".

I thought that "You May Now Enter" would mean way much more for someone that had to complete multiple steps to get there than to someone that was just randomly redirected.

Am I overthinking this? Is that kind of stuff boosting conversions?

I know for sure that it eats up CTR a lot - not sure about CR because of rejection.

I'm going forward with something else - setting up your lander @twinaxe is one of the steps I want to make right now.

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You have two options:

1. Use traffic sources that are more lenient
2. start with standard landers that you find on spy tools and remove the logos --> meaning start with less aggressive landers and see what they bring

As for SG... there are another 200 geos on the planet. If someone can make it in SG and presents wonderful numbers, doesn't mean it will work for you, too. For the money you need to invest in SG you probably get way more data in other geos.

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You're putting a lot of effort into landers, which is a good thing but your lander kind of looks like one of those banner ads people auto ignore. I think having something attention grabbing and interactive works a lot better. The default 3 are worth trying - giftboxes, spinners and branded survey-style quizzes.

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Thanks - PM'ed you back!

And wow - thanks for sharing everything above! I would DEFINITELY suggest to focus on what you already love to do instead of running pop/push - which can be exciting for some but by the sound of it, not for you.

And I'm glad we're having this conversation now rather than later.

About Facebook: Yes there are definitely risks. You're right to imply that even the whitest of whitehat runs risks of getting their account banned.

HOWEVER, if you're a legitimate business with a product or service that benefits customers, AND you're careful about not violating their ad policies, then you stand a good chance of surviving the bans.

With 9 million active ad accounts, it would be impossible to rely on human reviewers alone. So a lot of the bans are done automatically by bots. The spam account owners would not bother to appeal - because they know they won't win - but the legit advertisers would appeal and then a human reviewer would examine the account and unban if all is well.

"Ban first, manually review later" is their approach.

Of course, there is no way to 100% guarantee the longevity of your ad account whatever you do. The best advice I can give is to NOT rely on Facebook as the only place to get access to a cold audience, or to your warm audience. Buy traffic from google and youtube for example, in addition to just buying from FB. And instead of just building a FB group or messenger list to interact with your audience, build a mailing list as well so that if your page ever gets shut down, you can still access your audience.

If you get an account banned (knock on wood), but your BM is still alive, you can set up to run from another ad account. If your BM is banned, you can try to run from another BM. If all your BMs are banned, you can try to use the account of a family member, relative, or friend. (If you do this, do your research so that FB can't link you with your past activities - different computer different IP different credit card etc. etc.)

Prepare for the worst and hope for the best - that's my strategy.


As a part of the LGBT community, I thank you personally for your kindness and contribution!

I've watched that vid - it's DOPE! I can see how your parties can unite people.

The first question on my mind is: Why aren't you organizing these more often? Is it because of police intervention?

If so - and I'm talking post-covid of course - have you considered doing this in a different country? The US for example?

I tend to avoid discussing social issues because it's a sensitive topic for many - but I will say that there is a lot of unrest, hatred, and confusion in that country, especially these days. I say this with all the compassion I have, without judgment or malice.

Think: Scaling this to 52 cities across the country, one every weekend.

And once you have the marketing figured out (which is what you're here to learn), the only thing different for each event would be the audience targeting by location.

Of course the first couple years will require a ton of work, getting permits and scheduling suitable venues and figuring out where to buy/rent equipment locally and all that (I have minimal experience - you're the expert). But after that, you can just keep booking the same venues and go back to the same places to get the stuff you need and everything will be routine.


I can understand that. Codes are predictable (when there aren't errors haha). People are not.

You've coded that offer url generator and the Binom cost synchroniser for STM (MEGA appreciated btw!). Have you considered creating something bigger?

Some ideas:

-Campaign optimization automation software/SaaS

-Landing page cleaning automation software/SaaS

-Spy tools

Or, venture beyond the paid traffic affiliate marketing arena into the more general digital marketing arena. Go to the warriorforum for example and see what kinds of things people are struggling with. You can sell a lot of stuff to that crowd. I bet there are simple scripts you can whip up in a day or two each that you can sell there.


It really sounds like you've already charted a path for yourself!

Forget pop and push! You're learning "real" marketing - audiences and ads and angles - which IMO is the right direction.

Suggestion: Find something really safe to promote on FB and/or google to get some experience running ads. Ecom for example. It may even turn out to be a profitable business for you that you can sell down the road when you're ready to promote parties full-time.


It really sounds to me like you already have a definite vision and direction. You're just looking for something to do while waiting for covid to be over - correct? Hopefully some of what I said helped to trigger more ideas!

I'm enjoying our discussion - please feel free to continue if needed.



Amy

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You are right. I've decided to stop running pops and think about something else. I'm excited for the new things to come but am not so sure where to go from that place.

I instantly removed Push out of the list as it's just like pops.

I also am out of serious stack of cash to approach native so this is out of my view as well - is it the most expensive traffic type up there? I'm living in that belief.

Things that are left are Facebook (most preferably), Ecomm, E-mail, YouTube, Instagram, Google, Whatsapp, Pinterest

I'd love to focus on fb as I've started to read their advertisements policies and it looks like they aim for things I'd also like to aim.

And I'm glad that we started it, it looks like we share similiar views of the world.

I want to run 100% whitehat but this is something that will require ton of research, and you know what? THIS FEELS AMAZING LOL

I approached pops pretty recklessly by knowing that I just have to test huge amount of offers to eventually see any results.

As far as I'm aware there are no books written by acclaimed authors on pops advertising, when I try to imagine one it would definitely have a present or wheel on the cover (lol)

But there are tons of valuable books and research done by people that actually delivered huge value to the market and knew what they are doing in the past.

This knowledge can partially be applied to pops but I believe that I can shine in FB/Google or Native if done right.

I found out that rippin' and runnin' is not my way of earning money online.

I really hope that FB/Google is somewhat different than that because so far pops wasn't that much satisfying.

We've thought that it will make everything more unique and memorable.

Doing it weekly or monthly in the same place would quickly evaporate all of the hype.

Another thing is preparation - up until now it was secret party in a place that was completely abandoned and raw, without water and power supply.

Preparing event in venue like that is consuming enormous amount of time.

You need to consider factors that weekend club party organisers wouldn't dream of and we are fine with that.

We also want to give a platform for prospering artists to express themself in a way they want, without being judged by anyone.

Safezone, place that you can be yourself.

We've actually did not think about it but this is great idea.

US wouldn't be first on the list, but we would like to eventually get there.

We've been so far cutting cost of US bookings to keep up with everything else.

Getting into US would be impossible right now given the total budget that we prosper.

Making myself bank in AM is my way to ensure that those "impossible" parts can be turned into "possible".

Like I mentioned before - we would like to create series that people are striving to join and wait for, doing it weekly in 50+ cities make that magic part disappear - this would be just another party that people get high at and forget.

In other words - QUALITY over QUANTITY

I registered on the warriorforum by your recommendation.

Indeed, I was thinking about it but I realized that at the moment AM market is so competitive by companies that hire DOZENS of developers that achieving any significant results alone is close to impossible.

So I'm doing my best to provide real value to this forums and help people as much as I reasonably can.

You see - there is no point of gaining knowledge if you keep it all to yourself.

This is something I should work on when diving up into business development as I would preferably make most of the things open sourced and free.

Amy, this is nice I'm grateful that you helped in the whole process.

I'm already feeling relief by moving out of pops.

I'm going to tread lightly with FB/Google as I'm not having enormous budget to dump for that.

It did help, a lot. Don't ever doubt on that.

I must admit that @matuloo was right in one of the first post that he made in this FA HERE

I admit that diving into pops so deeply was a mistake.

Here it is, let's keep it up.

I added you at skype, when you find a free minute I kindly ask you to accept my invite.

Thanks,
Piotr

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Your belief that native is expensive is correct. It takes quite a bit of money to test creatives and cut publishers. You can stand to make a lot of money there, but if your intent is to learn marketing, then FB would definitely be a cheaper way.

I may be jumping ahead here, but chatbots are worth testing: https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...-Messenger-Ads

And if you run FB ads, Instagram is an option you can select while setting up your campaign/ads - it's almost like another ad placement, although it's technically a different platform.

Email can be used to follow up with customers (assuming you'll be doing ecom) to sell more products, or more of the same product.

And if you use video for FB ads, once you have something that works, you can scale that to youtube.

Google is a different beast. CPC is a lot higher than FB, but CR can be a lot higher as well if you're targeting the right keywords with the right product, funnel and copy. If you don't have a lot of budget, perhaps would be best not to spread yourself too thin by testing too many things and just stick with FB to start.

Whatsapp and Pinterest I have zero experience with, so won't comment.

To learn FB, this would be a good place to start: https://stmforum.com/forum/forumdisp...inner-Tutorial


Haha - definitely agree with you about your views on FB vs. pop/push.

In my FB tutorial I go into detail on what this research involves. It mostly has to do with identifying an audience, getting to know them, then writing copy that will resonate with them. Here's an example of this research in action:

https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...l=1#post408396


Understood - makes sense.

Perhaps the idea of having one in a different city every weekend can work - hype WILL be built on social media by participants in cities where the event has already taken place, for audience in cities where the event is yet to take place.

And it can become the most anticipated annual event for every city!


Got you.

Have you also looked into getting funding? Obviously now wouldn't be a good time - but perhaps when covid is over.

With your experience and track record it shouldn't be too difficult to get funding.

Crowdfunding can be one way (and that vid you showed me should help greatly!) I'm also thinking LGBT groups.

Another way - since you're planning on trying FB ads - would be to raise money that way. You'd need to do some research there as I haven't used FB ads for that purpose.

Another approach would be to go the free way - post that video on your personal FB feed and ask all your friends to share it and hope it will go viral. Can also try to join a lot of LGBT-relevant FB groups and post them there and ask people to share. Your parties have a mission which has the potential of starting a movement. That can be such a powerful leverage.


Yes but how about one city per week? That way it would still be an annual event for everyone.


Glad to be of help! That's what I'm here for.

I wouldn't say it was a mistake - let's call it a detour.

And regarding FB - absolutely you can jump into it directly as a newbie. That was why I wrote the FB newbie tutorial.


I didn't see an invite - skype has been acting up lately - let's do it another way - could you please PM me YOUR skype and I'll add you?



Amy

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-FB is going to be your bet bet, playing the Blackhat cloaking game with many accounts.
-Second best is google ads, there display.


You are right, native is expensive and big guys like Taboola hate it when you optimize stuff, and give preference to people who 'buy it all'.

So in my experience taboola only works out if you can afford to buy all, aka you have something that's doing almost breakeven from out of the gate, so you don't have to touch anything just maybe block some bad publishers AFTER they spent $xxx each so they come out of the learning phase.

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When anything starts in this universe, at some point there must be an ending.

This is my ending of this follow along which was for me, at the end, more like a spiritual journey than my way of getting rich fast in some few simple tricks.

I'm officially out of pops and am moving into Facebook.

I'm not creating new FA yet, it will eventually start but I need to do my homework first.

I'm taking my dive into facebook in a way more serious manner than I ever took on pops.

I'm leaving stats from the last two months below and am marking it down as completed.

Thanks to everyone for sharing knowledge that helped me to get better grasp of the paid traffic.

Stats from October 2020:



Stats from November 2020:






Overall FA stats (Oct 1 - Nov 30):

Revenue: 910.33$

Cost: 2559.37$

​Profit: -1649.04$

ROI: -64.43%

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For a newbie only two months in, this ROI is very good!

And I've enjoyed our discussion - both on STM and off.

So happy for you that you've found a direction you enjoy. Will be looking out for your new FA - when you're ready!


Amy


Sent from my iPhone using STM Forums

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Ah man, sad I missed the ending but looks like you figured out what you actually want to do - which is the key thing.

Starting anything is better than never starting.

As for your dreams - maybe look into trying SMMA, social media marketing agency for venues or nightclubs.

Can be very profitable if you do organic + paid retargeting on fb pixel views since I'd imagine there aren't a lot of sophisticated players in EU.

I'm not an expert but Iman Gadzhi seems like a super legit guy - he's got a YT channel and a course on this stuff.

Wishing you a ton of success man.

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