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Facebook Beginner Tutorial: Introduction (30)


01-18-2020 03:55 PM #1 vortex (Senior Moderator)
Facebook Beginner Tutorial: Introduction

The FAQ

In recent months I've been asked this question a lot:

"You say pop traffic has become more saturated, so what kind of traffic should I run after finishing the 40-day tutorial?"

(BTW, some affiliates are still succeeding with pop in spite of the increased competition and saturation.)



Push Traffic

My first suggestion? Push notifications.

It's similar to pop, is newbie-friendly, doesn't require a huge budget, and lots of affiliates are banking with it after a relatively short time.

However, new browsers are about to limit the effectiveness of push traffic:

https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...-February-2020

Still, I believe networks and affiliates will continue to find ways to run push profitably for some time yet.

Just like how affiliates are still running pop in spite of all the google chrome updates.

(BTW, a little birdie told me that someone is secretly working on a push tutorial here on STM - no ETA yet but do keep an eye out if you're interested.)



Facebook

Having said that, it would still be good to have another option besides push - one that will continue to be around in the conceivable future.

Another traffic type I'm always recommending, is Facebook. Reasons:

-It's great in terms of longevity (will be around for a while as was mentioned). Unlike pop/push, FB won't likely get regulated or restricted by browsers, or mobile carriers, or the law.

-The traffic volume is there (although how much of that we can get will depend on specifics).

-It has pretty good audience targeting options available. Plus, its algo has gotten quite good at identifying the right audience for us.

The only snag is that FB has a bit of a learning curve for newbie affiliates.

Unlike for pop, running on FB isn't as easy as ripping some landers from a spy tool and mass-testing low-payout offers.

-We need to do marketing research to know what kinds of advertising angles to use, what audiences to target, etc.

-We need to understand - at least a little bit - how the FB algo works, so we can help it to identify the best audiences to show our ads to, and to get results at the best value.

-We need to know what FB likes and doesn't like, in order to both get good results AND delay/avoid the ban hammer.

Etc. etc. There are just a lot more moving parts in general compared to something like pop/push.



Facebook Guide?

So it would only be appropriate for STM to have some sort of beginner's guide for FB.

Unfortunately, @zeno's Entry-Level FB guide, as great as it was when he wrote it a few years back, is outdated. @stickupkid's FB Newbie Tutorial is da bomb, and he has shared a ton of of knowledge that has helped many people succeed (including @itzpeter - see this thread), but he's very busy as well and is still trying to find the time to finish that guide.

In the meantime, I've decided to take it upon myself to write a beginner's guide on how to run on FB. Moreover, I want to:

1)Show how to run 100% whitehat (more on that below), and

2)Make the first module of the guide a step-by-step, like what I did in the 40-day pop tutorial.



Whitehat vs. Blackhat

Everybody's definition of what whitehat/blackhat means is a bit different.

In general though:

Blackhat involves running against FB's policies, making cloaking and burning through accounts a necessity. Conversion rates are typically higher due to the opportunity to use misleading landing page copy to promote shady offers.

Whitehat involves running ads in a manner that is compliant with FB's policies. No cloaking. Landing pages and offers need to be (or at least appear to be) genuine and legit. Conversion rates are typically lower due to - well - not being able to lie/cheat. Account bans occur at a much lower frequency (or not at all, depending on the situation).

Blackhat used to be where the money was. The freedom of running whatever landing pages and offers one wishes to (with the help of a cloaker) can massively help conversion rates.

However, as FB's algorithm became smarter over the last few years (particularly over the past year or two), accounts were banned sooner and sooner - until they no longer lasted long enough to make back what they cost (to buy/farm). And the low spending limits don't help either.

Also, competition has risen as more affiliates started running blackhat at scale. The barrier to entry lowered - as it became easier to find information on how to farm/rent/buy accounts, and as more services such as spy tools and cloakers became accessible and affordable.

Moreover, regulatory bodies such as the FTC have tightened their regulations when it comes to misleading advertising:

https://www.thestreet.com/personal-f...views-12787988

And you know those fake celebrity endorsements that convert so well? Well - with so many blackhatters running them, it was only a matter of time before the celebs started fighting back:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/th...ements-1252832

As a direct result of all this grief - increased risks and decreased ROI - many of the blackhatters have transitioned to running whitehat.

And I'm predicting that this trend will continue this year.

Running whitehat doesn't necessarily mean you won't get accounts banned ever again, but the frequency will be much lower, and you'll have the option to appeal when you DO get banned.

But running whitehat will require a bigger test budget, more testing and more optimization to see profits.

And, God forbid, we'd actually need to be better marketers - because we can't as easily achieve the same conversion rates as when we were telling people "Oprah endorsed this".

Which is part of what I'll be covering in the tutorial.

Going forward, whitehat is the way. And my tutorial will ensure that beginners run clean from the very start.



FB Compliance

So the next question is, how to run whitehat?

It comes down to this obvious fact:

Give FB what it wants, and we stand a chance of getting the best-converting traffic at the lowest cost.

And what exactly DOES FB want? 3 words: Positive User Experience.

Users are FB's bread and butter. If enough users leave, FB will go under - like what happened to MySpace, and Friendster.

And this goal takes priority over the short-term gains of money from blackhat campaigns.

So then, how to provide a positive user experience?

Facebook has figure this out, and has written the guidelines into their advertising policies:

https://www.facebook.com/policies/ads/

So that would be for ads. In addition, the landing page and the offer page also need to look legit and relevant to the ad and the audience. No misleading/fake info.

Obviously: Staying away from the types of offers that people usually run blackhat - e.g. nutra, crypto, adult - is of course recommended.

Also: Having a great-looking FB Page that looks genuine and has lots of content and engagement is important, and is one of the most-overlooked aspects that can help our campaigns.

Enough on compliance for now - I'll be sure to talk more about this topic in the tutorial.



Affiliate Links - and the Risks Hierarchy

As for the use of affiliate links - here's a risks hierarchy based on a mix of common knowledge and my personal speculations.

In order of risk levels, from Riskiest to Safest:

-Putting affiliate links in ads is generally frowned upon. I made it work back in 2014 when I was running FB briefly, but haven't bothered to test this since I started running FB again over a year ago. There's enough feedback from enough affiliates that tells me it's a bad idea. So, let's just don't?

-Using a landing page with outgoing affiliate links is doable, but I suspect that FB will probably still track the ad to the landing page to the outgoing link and evaluate how "safe" the link is. WOT may be one way FB uses to evaluate this. Another possible way is FB may track the number of ad accounts that have run affiliate links with the same domain, that were flagged as non-compliant accounts.

So, if a few affiliates from the same network were caught by FB as running non-compliant, then the affiliate link domain may be "tainted" and FB would somehow treat your campaigns differently - either assign less traffic or lower-quality traffic or increase the likelihood of a manual review etc. (Again, this is my speculation.)

-Running offers that allow you to run without an affiliate link, that track conversions by putting your FB pixel on their site, would be a safer way to go. Still, if my suspicions above were true, then it would only take a few affiliates running aggressive or cloaking to spoil the fun for everyone. One thing that would help is if the affiliate network limits the number of affiliates they allow to run each offer - Jumbleberry does this for example.

-Staying away from running affiliate offers altogether would be the safest method. Either selling physical goods (dropshipping, or buying and fulfilling), or capturing leads and selling them or monetizing them yourself, or running FB camps for small businesses to promote their products/services.


In addition: Running exclusive offers with exclusive offer domains (i.e. vortexs-iphone-giveaway.com), without the need for redirects, would be safe. But networks don't tend to do that for new affiliates without a great track record that proves their ability to bring sufficient profits to justify the added effort of setting up such offers.

In general: If my speculations regarding affiliate links are correct, then the fewer affiliates that promote the same offer domain and affiliate link domain, the safer it would be.



What the Tutorial Will Cover

The current plant is to stick with the 2 safest options in the risks hierarchy above.

The tutorial will include multiple modules. I haven't decided yet what they will be for sure, but tentatively:

1)Lead Generation module, which involves creating a website to capture leads and sending them to an affiliate network.

2)Ecom CPA Offers module, on how to promote ecom offers from affiliate networks.

After these 2 modules are done, I MAY build more modules based on these first two. For example:

3)Creating a Shopify site for testing products first, then for each promising product, building out a dedicated site, and using a fulfillment centre to fulfill orders.

4)Approaching businesses to negotiate lead generation deals, then capturing and delivering leads automatically.


Ultimately, I want the tutorial to introduce beginners to the most common business models that can be run on FB, in order to offer them a good number of options to choose from, e.g.:

-Promoting affiliate offers.

-Capturing leads and selling them, or monetizing them with affiliate offers or own offers.

-Selling one's own products (physical or digital) or services. (I may do a case study on this sometime this year, as I set up my part-time energy healing practice.)

-Starting an agency and promoting other people's products and services.


And of course, no matter which business model we choose to go with, we would need to know these basics:

-How to do research on a vertical/offer

-How to set up campaign

-How to target the right audience

-How to create effective ads

-How to do testing, optimization, and scaling.

And I'll aim to cover each component in the tutorial.


FB is constantly evolving, so the tutorial may be outdated as soon as I write it. However, I will strive to keep it up to date, with the help of other mods.

Also, I'm not trying to write a be-all-end-all guide here. I only aim to do 2 things:

1)Create a step-by-step to help new affiliates launch their first campaign on FB, to get over that big initial barrier by taking action first, understanding later.

2)List various methods, tips and tricks that have either worked for me or someone else in recent months, so you'll have lots of ideas to test when running your own campaigns.



ETA

I don't claim to know everything about FB (far from it!) - I know there are a lot of veteran affiliates on this forum that have more FB experience than I do.

I just want to help beginners get started, and to introduce whitehat opportunities as an option to some of the members that are currently running blackhat, and want a refreshing change.

I hope that this tutorial will spark lots of discussions, where experienced FB marketers will chime in with their valuable experience and insight. Looking at everyone's recent experiences will be the best way to get a more complete picture of how FB currently works.

This tutorial is a huge undertaking for me. It's one thing to know how to run campaigns, but writing a tutorial is another thing altogether.

In addition to drawing on the FB experience I already have, I'm spending time on more testing and further education to better equip myself to write this beast of a guide.

All this will take time, and I won't post anything I'm not confident will benefit members.

I don't have an ETA on when this tutorial will be finished, but I'm planning on starting posting as soon as a few weeks from now, and completing the first module in the next 2-3 months.

I hereby ask for your patience in the meantime.

And if you have any suggestions on what should be included in this tutorial, please don't hesitate to let me know below! All suggestions will be seriously considered.

Thanks for reading!





Amy

FB Beginner Tutorial: Index


01-18-2020 04:03 PM #2 salst89 (Member)

I will love that guide, I am already using FB Adv from few months thanks to a course. But i think thats more that i need to learn!

The big problem on Fb Ads its to get leads at the minimum cost possible.

My record atm is 1,10 euro for every potential lead. But i know people that pay 0,30 cents or less.

Thanks for the idea i will follow this thread.


01-18-2020 05:56 PM #3 affpayinggao (Veteran Member)

Great stuff!! Looking forward to the next part. Thank you Amy!


01-19-2020 03:59 AM #4 jaybot (Veteran Member)

I love Amy.

Definitely looking forward to the

1) Lead Generation and how to monetize that.

and of course

2) Affiliate Ecom stuff without all the hassle of doing actual Ecom :P

Actually, I'm looking forward to everything you print.

For the record, I've found that using a clean domain and running FB traffic directly to that, then using an FB pixel to fire custom conversions (as add to cart or similar) as a js onclick event before sending to an outgoing affiliate link seems to be relatively safe. I don't run huge volumes on FB though, so I could be way off


01-19-2020 10:42 PM #5 vortex (Senior Moderator)

Quote Originally Posted by jaybot View Post
For the record, I've found that using a clean domain and running FB traffic directly to that, then using an FB pixel to fire custom conversions (as add to cart or similar) as a js onclick event before sending to an outgoing affiliate link seems to be relatively safe. I don't run huge volumes on FB though, so I could be way off
@jaybot you're humble and kind as always!

Interesting what you said! I'm aware that the pixel can be used to track link clicks:

https://developers.facebook.com/docs...ixel/advanced/

But how would implementing that make redirecting to an outgoing affiliate link safer? Would FB not be able to see the affiliate link somehow?

I wished I was better at the tech stuff - I know there are so many creative things that can be done using code...



Amy


01-20-2020 01:32 AM #6 Mr Baffoe (Veteran Member)

Quote Originally Posted by vortex View Post
@jaybot you're humble and kind as always!

Interesting what you said! I'm aware that the pixel can be used to track link clicks:

https://developers.facebook.com/docs...ixel/advanced/

But how would implementing that make redirecting to an outgoing affiliate link safer? Would FB not be able to see the affiliate link somehow?

I wished I was better at the tech stuff - I know there are so many creative things that can be done using code...



Amy
The pixel on link click means that there’s no need to put a pixel on the offer page/domain.

This protects you from being linked to that domain if some affiliate decides to go rogue with your whitehat offer.

The downside with this is that you are not able to track actual conversions with the pixel.

The deferred pixel technology in Prosper202 takes this idea to the next level because it can fire the Facebook pixel when an actual conversion happens, this allows for more accurate optimizations and LAL creation.

I does this without putting your pixel and account at risk for promoting an affiliate offer because it loads the FB conversion pixel on your own domain instead of the offer’s domain


01-20-2020 03:16 AM #7 jaybot (Veteran Member)

Quote Originally Posted by vortex View Post
But how would implementing that make redirecting to an outgoing affiliate link safer? Would FB not be able to see the affiliate link somehow?
Pretty much what @Mr Baffoe said above. Since the 'conversion' being fired is not anything on the domain being redirected to (it's on your own clean domain) FB has very little reason to follow the redirect link. I'm not saying they couldn't, it just lowers the chance as your link could go anywhere and there isn't any pixel on the offer link you're sending to.

To do this, it's as simple as using the fbq function like:

Code:
fbq('track', 'InitiateCheckout');
//then send to your tracker link to check click throughs with something like
window.onbeforeunload=null,window.location="https://yourcooltracker.com/ABCDEFG0128901802";
Using a tracker link slightly obfuscates the outgoing link as well, of course.

But, yeah. Downside is you'll have to check your network for the actual conversions and do some easy math on CR. But this is no different than a lot of affiliates running completely naked (just CAKE or whatever), no tracker at all, such as stickupkid.

I'm no FB or coding pro, it's just my take so far. Take that as you will


01-22-2020 08:31 PM #8 ayoupianist ()

Thanks @vortex for putting the time into this guide.. It will be amazing of course!


01-23-2020 03:30 AM #9 gurjitsingh (Member)

Thank you Vortex, just started my subscription for this forum. Going to read through your Sweepstakes guide. Let me know if there's any specific thread you guys would like me to start with. I have some experience with Facebook ads from around 8 months and now I was warming up my business manager, created 5 business accounts and FB just restricted all of my accounts in all of my business managers. I had one business manager banned before so I guess they just went ahead and banned every account accosiated with that email account. I was just running a PPE campaign on a legit local business page for warm up when this happened


01-26-2020 02:25 PM #10 yacoubh (AMC Alumnus)

Amy always rocks
GOOD LUCK


01-26-2020 04:12 PM #11 adoncohen (Member)

Cant wait! Amy is the GOAT


Sent from my iPhone using STM Forums mobile app


01-26-2020 11:57 PM #12 vortex (Senior Moderator)

Quote Originally Posted by Mr Baffoe View Post
The pixel on link click means that there’s no need to put a pixel on the offer page/domain.

This protects you from being linked to that domain if some affiliate decides to go rogue with your whitehat offer.

The downside with this is that you are not able to track actual conversions with the pixel.

The deferred pixel technology in Prosper202 takes this idea to the next level because it can fire the Facebook pixel when an actual conversion happens, this allows for more accurate optimizations and LAL creation.

I does this without putting your pixel and account at risk for promoting an affiliate offer because it loads the FB conversion pixel on your own domain instead of the offer’s domain
Using a tracker link slightly obfuscates the outgoing link as well, of course.

But, yeah. Downside is you'll have to check your network for the actual conversions and do some easy math on CR. But this is no different than a lot of affiliates running completely naked (just CAKE or whatever), no tracker at all, such as stickupkid.
Thank so much @Mr Baffoe and @jaybot for the clarification!

@Mr Baffoe Would you mind if I contact you to find out more about this new deferred pixel technology feature of your tracker? Will PM you.

Being able to run affiliate links without FB's detection while STILL being able to optimize for conversions is the affiliate's dream come true!



Amy


01-27-2020 12:22 AM #13 vortex (Senior Moderator)

Quote Originally Posted by gurjitsingh View Post
Thank you Vortex, just started my subscription for this forum. Going to read through your Sweepstakes guide. Let me know if there's any specific thread you guys would like me to start with. I have some experience with Facebook ads from around 8 months and now I was warming up my business manager, created 5 business accounts and FB just restricted all of my accounts in all of my business managers. I had one business manager banned before so I guess they just went ahead and banned every account accosiated with that email account. I was just running a PPE campaign on a legit local business page for warm up when this happened
Did you create the 5 accounts around the same time?

I haven't personally tried to create multiple ad accounts simultaneously, but I'm guessing that doing so may have set off some alarms.

Also: FB doesn't like it when we leave accounts idle. So unless you're planning on using them all right from the start, it may be better to create them as you outgrow the last.

Moreover: As far as I'm aware, FB would automatically ban accounts en-masse on a regular basis. I haven't noticed any definite patterns yet, as this has happened to active and dormant accounts, new accounts and old accounts, accounts with low spend and higher spend.

I feel that they're using the "guilty until proven innocent" approach - basically just wipe out anyone and everyone that looks suspicious, on a regular basis, and only reactivate accounts where advertisers bother to appeal - at which time they would do a manual review.

So, if you haven't done anything shady, DO file an appeal. And if they say no, try again.

A tip that MAY have helped me get back some of my accounts: Go through the lessons in the Facebook Blueprint that have to do with advertising policies:

https://www.facebookblueprint.com/st...-and-targeting

Make sure you're logged in while going through these lessons. After you're done, you'll be marked as complete. Take a screenshot of your "certificate of completion":



And attach it to your appeal message.

Tell them you've gone through those lessons because you wanted to stay compliant.

Above all, be courteous - reviewers are just doing their job and I'm sure they don't appreciate seeing a bunch of messages that all say "why the f*ck did you ban my account when I didn't do nothing wrong!" We want our message to be a breath of fresh air.

Best of luck!



Amy


01-28-2020 04:10 PM #14 gurjitsingh (Member)

Thanks Amy, I did contact them, unfortunately my message was almost the most generic message without the F word They gave me access to all business managers except one. So I am thinking of running sweepstakes with ads saying,"Get A Chance to Win" instead "Win...." what I used to do before.


01-29-2020 10:59 PM #15 kjrocker (Senior Member)

Good Stuff Amy, Wishing you all the best and I hope your guides will like before affiliates make $$$$$


01-30-2020 03:27 PM #16 TopOffers (Member)

Good Stuff Amy


03-20-2020 05:56 PM #17 takethespaceship (Member)

Wow. Always with that fire!!!! Tahnks!


04-09-2020 04:44 PM #18 Fiddyshades (Member)

Great stuff you got here. Thank you so much


04-20-2020 05:20 PM #19 squark192 (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by jaybot View Post
Pretty much what @Mr Baffoe said above. Since the 'conversion' being fired is not anything on the domain being redirected to (it's on your own clean domain) FB has very little reason to follow the redirect link. I'm not saying they couldn't, it just lowers the chance as your link could go anywhere and there isn't any pixel on the offer link you're sending to.

To do this, it's as simple as using the fbq function like:

Code:
fbq('track', 'InitiateCheckout');
//then send to your tracker link to check click throughs with something like
window.onbeforeunload=null,window.location="https://yourcooltracker.com/ABCDEFG0128901802";
Using a tracker link slightly obfuscates the outgoing link as well, of course.

But, yeah. Downside is you'll have to check your network for the actual conversions and do some easy math on CR. But this is no different than a lot of affiliates running completely naked (just CAKE or whatever), no tracker at all, such as stickupkid.

I'm no FB or coding pro, it's just my take so far. Take that as you will
The biggest problem with all of this is that it's irrelevant when users are in the mobile app. They use Facebook's browser. And, ultimately, fb will know where they end up. There's simply no way to effectively hide that. You're trying to use tactics that might fool a human, but aren't even speed bumps for a fully-contained mobile browser. At best, these techniques work in a desktop browser. Maybe.


04-20-2020 09:57 PM #20 jaybot (Veteran Member)

Quote Originally Posted by squark192 View Post
The biggest problem with all of this is that it's irrelevant when users are in the mobile app. They use Facebook's browser. And, ultimately, fb will know where they end up. There's simply no way to effectively hide that. You're trying to use tactics that might fool a human, but aren't even speed bumps for a fully-contained mobile browser. At best, these techniques work in a desktop browser. Maybe.
OK. Pretty sure the FB browser is just a wrapper for Safari on iOS and chrome/webview on android, but you could be right....

A user then clicks through to the offer on the FB mobile browser, and then clicks through to a tracker link, and then ends up on an offer page. Then what?

To be clear, if you're running WH, you're not hiding anything. You're simply using practices to lessen automatic bans from algorithms.

If you are running WH, even sweeps, any account bans should be removed upon appeal.

If running a clean campaign, a regular human user who would click through your ad, to your lander, and to the offer would rarely actually report anything. They'd just go click back and get back to their cat videos.


04-21-2020 02:40 AM #21 squark192 (Member)

Agreed on the WH stuff. My issue is simply with the idea of link obfuscation is a viable protection strategy. Even there, given the risk hierarchy above, even affiliate offers that should be WH are vulnerable to high-density outbound linking.

Also, the embedded browser is definitely just a platform webview. Navigation is observable.


02-02-2021 10:25 AM #22 florakija (Member)

Hey Amy, awesome work, thanks a lot!
I have a little headache though, because on my main business manager I still handle a lot of client currently.
I can not afford to lose that business manager or personal profile.

Is a second BM also safe enough for BH marketing on Facebook, so my first BM doesn’t get banned.

Or should I buy accounts right away?

Thank you for your help


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


02-02-2021 10:54 AM #23 vortex (Senior Moderator)

Quote Originally Posted by florakija View Post
Hey Amy, awesome work, thanks a lot!
I have a little headache though, because on my main business manager I still handle a lot of client currently.
I can not afford to lose that business manager or personal profile.

Is a second BM also safe enough for BH marketing on Facebook, so my first BM doesn’t get banned.

Or should I buy accounts right away?

Thank you for your help


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thank you and you're so welcome!

First of all, there's NEVER any guarantees that your BM or accounts won't get banned, even if you're a legitimate business.

And if you're talking about running BH, then the risks are infinitely higher. It won't be WHETHER you'd get an account/BM banned. It'd be a matter of WHEN.

So - if you don't want to risk losing your main BM, please completely separate your BH activities from it!

Don't let on that there is ANY association between that BM and your BH accounts. Use different EVERYTHING. IP, device, payment info, profile info, etc. ALL needs to be different.

And NEVER log into BH accounts from the same IP or device you've used to log into your good BM.

It only takes one mistake to have your good BM linked to BH activities and have everything shut down. Don't ask me how I know - painful personal experience.



Amy


02-02-2021 11:23 AM #24 florakija (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by vortex View Post
Thank you and you're so welcome!

First of all, there's NEVER any guarantees that your BM or accounts won't get banned, even if you're a legitimate business.

And if you're talking about running BH, then the risks are infinitely higher. It won't be WHETHER you'd get an account/BM banned. It'd be a matter of WHEN.

So - if you don't want to risk losing your main BM, please completely separate your BH activities from it!

Don't let on that there is ANY association between that BM and your BH accounts. Use different EVERYTHING. IP, device, payment info, profile info, etc. ALL needs to be different.

And NEVER log into BH accounts from the same IP or device you've used to log into your good BM.

It only takes one mistake to have your good BM linked to BH activities and have everything shut down. Don't ask me how I know - painful personal experience.



Amy
Thank you, but damn, that’s what I thought...

May I have your honest opinion on WH vs BH?

Do you think the pros outweighs the cons or with all the extra cost and extra cautions you have to take, all the extra effort going BH; that in the end it doesn’t matter if you go WH or BH, it’s just a different hassle?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


02-06-2021 01:24 AM #25 vortex (Senior Moderator)

Quote Originally Posted by florakija View Post
Thank you, but damn, that’s what I thought...

May I have your honest opinion on WH vs BH?

Do you think the pros outweighs the cons or with all the extra cost and extra cautions you have to take, all the extra effort going BH; that in the end it doesn’t matter if you go WH or BH, it’s just a different hassle?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That question has been asked by many. And it's not an easy question to answer completely, especially when every person's situation is different.

I'll try to list some of the pros and cons off the top of my head.


WH Pros / BH Cons:

-WH is easy to learn - basically my FB beginner's tutorial would be more than good enough to get you started and more.

Whereas BH has a way steeper learning curve in terms of getting accounts set up. Do you buy/rent/farm? A combination thereof? Who to buy from that would give the best value in terms of price and account longevity? What types of safe sites will prolong account longevity but won't take forever / cost a lot to build? Cloak or not? How misleading to run in order to maximize profits with a good balance of account longevity and conversion rates? How to warm up accounts? How to fill out verification information without using our real info/ID? Etc. Etc. Etc.

So if you don't currently have the know-how to run BH, be prepared to either go through a ton of trial-and-error on your own, or pay someone the big bucks to teach you how to do it.

The the most "fun" aspect of BH is that FB is changing all the time. So you'll need to keep up with R&D by adjusting your process to keep up - and/or be in contact with other BH advertisers so you can compare notes and figure things out together.

-BH have more upfront costs. E.g. Know-how (if you need someone to teach you how to run BH), buying/renting/farming accounts, cloaker, residential IPs, multilogin or alternative, VPSs...

So you'd need to know what you're doing in order to consistently recap your investment before each ad account gets banned.

-With WH, the risk of account bans can be way lower. (However, there will always be a risk, and the fear of account bans tends to be greater because whitehatters may not know how to get new accounts, and/or how to run from new accounts without leaving a footprint to banned accounts. So this can be a con as well, depending on your perspective.)

-With WH, there's the potential to build a real asset - if you're operating a legit service or selling legit products using compliant ads, manage to escape account bans, and build up a good history over time. Not so with BH.


WH Cons / BH Pros:

-BH offers/angles tend to convert better due to a)less saturation because fewer advertisers are running the same offers/verticals, b)misleading ads tend to trump honest ads.

-With BH, scaling is less of a problem when you have access to multiple ad accounts.

-For BH there's less/no fear of account bans - because you can just get more accounts. (But accounts can be expensive - so this can be a con as well depending on how you look at it.)


Additional thoughts:

-"WH" and "BH" only represent two extremes of the spectrum, with a lot of shades of greyhat in between. So your choices aren't just between BH and WH. The devil's in the details and I don't know enough different business models to give examples of the different points along the spectrum.

-It's hard to say whether BH or WH is more "worth it". A lot of it comes down to personal preferences, as well as the nitty-gritty details of execution. That's just too general a question to even attempt to answer.

-Whether you're running BH or WH, be prepared for account bans. If you're a whitehatter, diversify from the get-go by buying traffic from other platforms also (e.g. google, native, social platforms other than FB) instead of relying solely on FB. And/or have a backup plan on how to get more FB accounts.


Hope that helps! I'd appreciate any insight from other members.




Amy


02-06-2021 05:01 AM #26 florakija (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by vortex View Post
That question has been asked by many. And it's not an easy question to answer completely, especially when every person's situation is different.

I'll try to list some of the pros and cons off the top of my head.


WH Pros / BH Cons:

-WH is easy to learn - basically my FB beginner's tutorial would be more than good enough to get you started and more.

Whereas BH has a way steeper learning curve in terms of getting accounts set up. Do you buy/rent/farm? A combination thereof? Who to buy from that would give the best value in terms of price and account longevity? What types of safe sites will prolong account longevity but won't take forever / cost a lot to build? Cloak or not? How misleading to run in order to maximize profits with a good balance of account longevity and conversion rates? How to warm up accounts? How to fill out verification information without using our real info/ID? Etc. Etc. Etc.

So if you don't currently have the know-how to run BH, be prepared to either go through a ton of trial-and-error on your own, or pay someone the big bucks to teach you how to do it.

The the most "fun" aspect of BH is that FB is changing all the time. So you'll need to keep up with R&D by adjusting your process to keep up - and/or be in contact with other BH advertisers so you can compare notes and figure things out together.

-BH have more upfront costs. E.g. Know-how (if you need someone to teach you how to run BH), buying/renting/farming accounts, cloaker, residential IPs, multilogin or alternative, VPSs...

So you'd need to know what you're doing in order to consistently recap your investment before each ad account gets banned.

-With WH, the risk of account bans can be way lower. (However, there will always be a risk, and the fear of account bans tends to be greater because whitehatters may not know how to get new accounts, and/or how to run from new accounts without leaving a footprint to banned accounts. So this can be a con as well, depending on your perspective.)

-With WH, there's the potential to build a real asset - if you're operating a legit service or selling legit products using compliant ads, manage to escape account bans, and build up a good history over time. Not so with BH.


WH Cons / BH Pros:

-BH offers/angles tend to convert better due to a)less saturation because fewer advertisers are running the same offers/verticals, b)misleading ads tend to trump honest ads.

-With BH, scaling is less of a problem when you have access to multiple ad accounts.

-For BH there's less/no fear of account bans - because you can just get more accounts. (But accounts can be expensive - so this can be a con as well depending on how you look at it.)


Additional thoughts:

-"WH" and "BH" only represent two extremes of the spectrum, with a lot of shades of greyhat in between. So your choices aren't just between BH and WH. The devil's in the details and I don't know enough different business models to give examples of the different points along the spectrum.

-It's hard to say whether BH or WH is more "worth it". A lot of it comes down to personal preferences, as well as the nitty-gritty details of execution. That's just too general a question to even attempt to answer.

-Whether you're running BH or WH, be prepared for account bans. If you're a whitehatter, diversify from the get-go by buying traffic from other platforms also (e.g. google, native, social platforms other than FB) instead of relying solely on FB. And/or have a backup plan on how to get more FB accounts.


Hope that helps! I'd appreciate any insight from other members.




Amy
Thank you so much! Great explanation


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02-13-2021 03:18 PM #27 florakija (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by vortex View Post
That question has been asked by many. And it's not an easy question to answer completely, especially when every person's situation is different.

I'll try to list some of the pros and cons off the top of my head.


WH Pros / BH Cons:

-WH is easy to learn - basically my FB beginner's tutorial would be more than good enough to get you started and more.

Whereas BH has a way steeper learning curve in terms of getting accounts set up. Do you buy/rent/farm? A combination thereof? Who to buy from that would give the best value in terms of price and account longevity? What types of safe sites will prolong account longevity but won't take forever / cost a lot to build? Cloak or not? How misleading to run in order to maximize profits with a good balance of account longevity and conversion rates? How to warm up accounts? How to fill out verification information without using our real info/ID? Etc. Etc. Etc.

So if you don't currently have the know-how to run BH, be prepared to either go through a ton of trial-and-error on your own, or pay someone the big bucks to teach you how to do it.

The the most "fun" aspect of BH is that FB is changing all the time. So you'll need to keep up with R&D by adjusting your process to keep up - and/or be in contact with other BH advertisers so you can compare notes and figure things out together.

-BH have more upfront costs. E.g. Know-how (if you need someone to teach you how to run BH), buying/renting/farming accounts, cloaker, residential IPs, multilogin or alternative, VPSs...

So you'd need to know what you're doing in order to consistently recap your investment before each ad account gets banned.

-With WH, the risk of account bans can be way lower. (However, there will always be a risk, and the fear of account bans tends to be greater because whitehatters may not know how to get new accounts, and/or how to run from new accounts without leaving a footprint to banned accounts. So this can be a con as well, depending on your perspective.)

-With WH, there's the potential to build a real asset - if you're operating a legit service or selling legit products using compliant ads, manage to escape account bans, and build up a good history over time. Not so with BH.


WH Cons / BH Pros:

-BH offers/angles tend to convert better due to a)less saturation because fewer advertisers are running the same offers/verticals, b)misleading ads tend to trump honest ads.

-With BH, scaling is less of a problem when you have access to multiple ad accounts.

-For BH there's less/no fear of account bans - because you can just get more accounts. (But accounts can be expensive - so this can be a con as well depending on how you look at it.)


Additional thoughts:

-"WH" and "BH" only represent two extremes of the spectrum, with a lot of shades of greyhat in between. So your choices aren't just between BH and WH. The devil's in the details and I don't know enough different business models to give examples of the different points along the spectrum.

-It's hard to say whether BH or WH is more "worth it". A lot of it comes down to personal preferences, as well as the nitty-gritty details of execution. That's just too general a question to even attempt to answer.

-Whether you're running BH or WH, be prepared for account bans. If you're a whitehatter, diversify from the get-go by buying traffic from other platforms also (e.g. google, native, social platforms other than FB) instead of relying solely on FB. And/or have a backup plan on how to get more FB accounts.


Hope that helps! I'd appreciate any insight from other members.




Amy
May I ask you another (more nitpicky) question?
It’s just that I only have one Facebook private profile, the one where I also run my client accounts on.

Would it be possible to invite myself as admin on a friend’s BM to run BH stuff.
Could they also lock MY personal profile you think? (Even though it’s just added in another BM)

I just want to test a little more before I get into buying accounts, you know.

Thank you


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02-13-2021 05:04 PM #28 iwanttofly (Veteran Member)

Quote Originally Posted by florakija View Post
May I ask you another (more nitpicky) question?
It’s just that I only have one Facebook private profile, the one where I also run my client accounts on.

Would it be possible to invite myself as admin on a friend’s BM to run BH stuff.
Could they also lock MY personal profile you think? (Even though it’s just added in another BM)

I just want to test a little more before I get into buying accounts, you know.

Thank you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So to make sure I'm clear. You want your friend to create a BM and then invite your profile to be an admin of that profile. You then want to run BH ads from that BM? So the BM your profile owns and you run current client ads from remains untouched, but your profile is an admin in both the WH and the BH BMs?

Yes, Facebook can still restrict your profile, which would prevent you from using your WH BM to advertise. If it doesn't have a second admin, it would end up being shut down as well since there would be no one left who could advertise. You should add a second admin to it regardless of what you do going forward. It is risky to only have one admin in a BM. If it does have a second admin, it would probably remain active. Facebook could still shut it down, but at least the second admin could appeal. Also, being shut down when its ads are compliant and it has a second admin is unlikely, but still possible.

A profile can always be restricted before, during or after an ad account or BM is restricted. It usually just depends upon the nature of the infraction, how frequently it has been done, and whether you trip the ad account, BM, or profile restriction AI first.


02-15-2021 05:50 AM #29 vortex (Senior Moderator)

What @iwanttofly said.

The cardinal rule of running BH is to NEVER LEAVE ANY FOOTPRINTS that can associate your BH activities with your WH activities. ANY connection between your BH accounts and WH accounts (in this case your personal profile) will get your WH accounts banned along with your BH ones.

Other things to keep separate (including but not limited to):

-Device/machine you access the accounts from
-IP you access the accounts from
-Payment method
-Business info (BM, FB page etc.)
-Personal info (personal profile)

Trip up ONCE and FB will make the connection.




Amy


02-15-2021 07:19 AM #30 florakija (Member)

Thanks to both of you. Got it


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