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Do any of you realize...? (44)

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Hey guys. I want to get a general feel of the community's view of most coregistration paths from a moral standpoint. Basically any major path that gives good RPUs (Silver-Path, GameTheory), gets their results by doing nothing less than tricking users into signing up for a mobile subscription program, charging them $10/month and providing zero value. Look at these landing pages and you'll notice how small the 9.99$/mo text is, and how everything is designed to deceive the user into thinking entering their cell number is a necessary step to get their incentive. When mobile carriers actually see and audit these landing pages, the short code always get into trouble because of how non-compliant and deceptive the landing pages are. It really makes me wonder sometimes how people can view this as a legitimate/long-term business model, or how they can feel like they're actually doing some sort of "marketing" by plopping a deceit-filled coreg path after a signup page.

Thoughts?

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You're absolutely right but that's the way it is.

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These pages are compliant, thats the reason why at least with GT you have to get your pages approved before you can set them live. All of these path offers are optional and are not required for the user to get to the final destination. If you feel bad then dont promote it... Also offers like this have been around for ages, both in offline and online, so im sure they are not going anywhere. Look at the lotteries, gambling etc, they dont provide any value also, yet they been around for ages.

Monies > moral btw.

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The way I see it bro... it's not the offer itself that is necessarily shady... it's the marketing behind it that can be. It's your choice how you choose to promote. Personally I like to work above board as much as possible.

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No, you don't understand what I mean by compliance. The mobile offers themselves have strict compliance rules set out by carriers, and coreg landing pages for PIN submits break them 100%. For example, the guidelines state that the pricing text, including the $9.99/month, needs to be within 16 pixels of the MIN, or cell number form, and either in font size 16, or 1/2 the size of the CTA, whichever is largest. You're not going to find any mobile offer on SP or GT even CLOSE to these standards. These are 100% different than lotteries and gambling, because in a lottery you know what you're spending your money on - a change to win big. In this case, however, the point is to make the user not even realize he's spending money. How many of your leads do you actually think went "oh awesome, fun brain facts for 10$/month. i'm subscribing!". As I said in my first post, the point of these LPs is to hide the fact that the user is signing up for a mobile offer as much as possible.

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pbakos92, so what exactly do you want to achieve? For us to stop promoting coreg or for them to make terms so visible that they dont convert anymore? Im pretty sure they have compliance teams working on what is allowed and at what font size for the path.The terms on coreg paths are on 2-3 places, most users just dont bother to read them. Also im pretty sure they have been audited more than once after 100k's leads, thats the reason why job traffic is not allowed anymore for coreg by mobile carriers.

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Ibanez, read the first line of my first post and you'll see what I "want to achieve." I see everyone talking about coreg on here, and I wanted to see if people actually know what they're promoting. Compliance is NOT just about putting in ToS text, and I guarantee you the mobiles on their paths are non-compliant. They don't get audited because they pass through the compliant LPs to carriers for approval, and have tons and tons of short codes and rotate them so if they get hit, it's not much of a loss. Also, carriers don't usually suspend an SC on the first strike, so I'm sure they rotate SCs that got into trouble off and just use fresh ones.

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I do have to ask....whats the point of all of this.....no one is forcing anyone to promote what they dont want too.....

lotta scammy stuff and there is alot of decent stuff as well out there its up to the individual to decide what is right for him/her.......

that said its prob not best to go on a mortality parade here as well......

what we market today is no diff than what has been done for years in one format or another......

the choice is yours and always will be.....

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lol dude you're on a board of primarily CPA marketers... we are the vile pestilence on people's credit cards and consumer trust.

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Curious to hear what the guys from SP and GT have to say. I know they're members here. Let's hear it, boys!

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Its a question though we have to all ask ourselves. Where do we draw the line?

Ive seen and done various shady practices and have had opportunities to go really dark & blackhat.

Whats the line you wont step over?

For me -

I will not

* make money of people dying (Michael Jackson, Amy W, Osama, etc etc)
* sell people's personal details without some form of optin
* get involved into anything obviously criminal

Wheres your line?

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I'm not trying to change anything - hell, I probably drive more coreg revenue than a lot of people here... money is hard to pass up! But to me, this is not even comparable to rebilling credit cards or using fake news flogs. In those, the consumer is getting SOME value and knows he's purchasing something. Here the end goal is to make the consumer not even realize they're buying something, and in the end really provide no real value...

@polarbacon, like I just said, you're not "marketing" anything here at all...

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I don't do porn, gambling, addictive substances, or Justin Beiber.

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Same here. I try to stick with the non-obvious criminal activities.

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I'm not sure if you meant for this to be a joke or not but it made me giggle....

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^^^ Yeah, it was a joke. lol

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made me giggle so badly the kids thought i was watching a movie

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^^^ never say never?

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as long at its not illegal.

morals ?! those change from country to country decade to decade.

ethics. dont do to others what you dont want done to you and read the fine print ALWAYS!

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What I realize from coreg is what I've learned can be applied to all types of other offers - Been 2 months and I can say I am ready to run $22 offer campaigns to make a profit.

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Did the OP write a letter to Cigarette and Alcohol companies too? Or is it OK for them to scam the consumer as well?

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@What a terribly irrelevant, poorly thought, and utterly pointless argument. Please re-read my previous posts. When someone buys a cigarette or alcohol, they consciously know that they are a) purchasing something and b) what they're purchasing. For the last time, in coreg the point is to get the consumer to "purchase" something without them knowing.

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got to LEADSCON and see what 'large' & 'trusted' companies do EVERYDAY.

I understand your viewpoint.

you have to pick your lines NOT to cross and live with the choices and actions you do.

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Seriously, seems like you declared war on coreg. Tell us what is your end goal? To gives us a moral lecture on what is good and what is not?

If you are so worried about the fine prints why dont you go and write a letter to banks, who charge 3,650% annual interest rates on £10 overdrafts to people who are usually poor, elderly and unemployed, im pretty sure many of them didnt read the fine print also and didnt know about such charges.

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oh please.. What a bunch of bullocks. You're basically justifying your actions by saying "hey, it's not as bad as x or y."

It's funny how some of you get all defensive when topics like this come up. I'm not here to pass judgement on anyone, but at least be honest and stop sidestepping the question at hand. Co-regs are deceptive by nature. Anyone who say's otherwise is just delusional.

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Ok, if you say so.

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I wouldn't say that co-regs are deceptive by nature...it depends on how you promote them. But ain't it wonderful that there are nearly endless affiliate offers availabe for everybody. If co-regs are too deceptive for you simply run something else (dating, cps offers, sell your own stuff etc...). personally i have no problem with running co-regs, rebills etc..... It's a decision everybody has to make for himself! Everybody has his own opinion on this and no one is forced to run stuff that is against his moral.

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http://youtu.be/MfZ0nQfnhw4

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@ibanez, delusional was the correct word. You can NOT tell me that GT and SP's coreg paths aren't completely deceptive. With that point in mind, you have absolutely no grounds to try to disprove anything I said. Comparing one deceptive practice to another doesn't justify either.

Also, I already answered your question concerning the purpose of this topic twice now.

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ok what I do find odd here is your perception of things.....for example....

so a pill thats not gonna make me loose weight or get skinny promoted by a fake news site(100% built on lies) and is merely just a means to charge someones credit card a silly amount of money AND be extremely hard to cancel by companies that rotate thru processors just to "spread the risk" so they don't loose there ability to charge a credit card...is not even comparable?

um...ok

so by that standard as long as I gave someone a fake-ipad2 on my co-reg path that would be ok? because at least they get something?

or what about the dating companies that internally ewhore there member's just to keep billing the CC on file so they can chat with some "fake" girl who doesn't exist...are you ok with doing 1k in leads on that offer?

I think alot of people have given you there thoughts...and how they see it....

You don't see it the same way....as lot of them do here....

and thats what we call perception......

I am unsure of why you continue in this thread....I do admire your persistence....but puzzled of what you hope to achieve....

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Where in coreg is the consumer purchasing something without them knowing? If they type in their phone number, it clearly says in the text that if you reply with yes or whatever that you will be charged 9.99 per month. Its right there in the text.

Also, with the actually coreg leads, you are given an option to pass them or not do the offer as well.

Sure its deceptive but not a scam. Most things in life are deceptive, like the government! 0_o

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Polarbacon, I continue this thread because somehow, suprisingly, some of you STILL fail to see my point and keep bringing up moot arguments.

You constantly refer to the incentive prior to the coreg path - your "fake ipad 2", vs some crappy weight loss pill. For the FINAL time, read what I write and you will see why I'm amazed you and ibanez are still bringing up the same irrelevant arguments:

I am talking specifically about the COREGISTRATION PATHs themselves, not the method of promotion. Specifically, I'm referring to mobile coregistration paths, where they attempt to get a user to sign up for a mobile continuity offer that charges them 10$/mo for "fun brain facts" that usually aren't even sent to their cell phone. The difference between these mobile coreg offers and the weight loss pills you're all constantly referring to is that (and read this carefully because for some reason you have all failed to understand my point here):

***when purchasing a weight loss pill the consumer KNOWS they are purchasing something, and knows what they are purchasing - but when completing a mobile offer, the ones that give you spectacular >1$ RPUs, the consumer, most of the time, does NOT know they are purchasing something, much less what they are purchasing, and usually never even receive anything for it.***

Obviously fake weight loss pills are deceptive. However, this takes deception to a new level. I would be wildly surprised if someone could argue otherwise after reading my points. I don't care if you promote coreg, I do myself; but at least acknowledge the blatantly obvious nature of what you're promoting...

@vidivo - go try out one of the coreg paths yourself. The offers themselves that get them to enter their cell number have the pricing text, but it's EXTREMELY hard to find, and most people just glaze over it. These offers usually have huge form fields with flashing arrows to direct all of the visitor's attention to the form and not the small hidden pricing text. After they enter their cell #, they get a text message with the PIN number in the front, and then in a convoluted jumble of numbers it mentions $9.99, usually in the same string as the support number so it's even harder to notice. The compliant way to run these promotions is for the price point to be clearly stated within 16 pixels of the cell # form, in font size 16. If you do think people voluntarily sign up for these offers knowing it costs 9.99/mo, why do you think people decide to hide it so well and risk losing their short codes and residual revenue?

I usually think of things in terms of selling them face-to-face. If you try to walk down a street, find a person, and ask them if they want fun brain facts or celebrity news updates for 10$/month, do you think any would actually say yes? I'm sure a few would, but NOWHERE near the amount that get duped into signing up.

Obviously coreg is not a doomed or inherently scammy business model. Paths such as modpath, VC's path, eversave's path, or coolsavings path are all 100% legitimate with legitimate advertisers and clear and conspicuous opt-in methods. However, competition in this booming sector of internet marketing causes people to resort to less-than-legitimate ways to boost performance and maintain a competitive advantage, which has led us to these super scammy mobile landing pages.

Also, I'm NOT saying that mobile is inherently scammy either. There are people who would be fine with 10$/month to get any ringtone they want, or participate in bidding auctions for prizes. It's just, as with anything, cut-throat competition (and greed) makes people push moral boundaries and attempt to outcompete each other with short-term, non-sustainable, and overall deceptive means.

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even if they are deceptive. who the f*** cares? no one forces you to run them..so this thread is pointless!

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I hear you pbakos92. But the nature of this business is that the majority are in it fir short-term gratification by whatever means they can turn their hand to. I have anxiety issues, so there are many 'offers' I won't run. That's my choice.
But if you're hoping to change things by holding up a mirror here, you will only be pissing into the wind.

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C'mon now, please just read my posts! I've repeated multiple times that I'm not trying to "change" anything. I'm just wondering if people actually understand what they're promoting and do it anyway, or if they think it's some legitimate form of "marketing." So no, this thread is not pointless, and I do think it will definitely help people new to it actually see the full picture here. In the end the choice is obviously left up to the person himself. It's also very interesting to see some people do indeed feel that this is a completely legitimate form of advertising and monetization. NusolutionZ, it's a discussion, and one with a very good point at that, so it's absolutely not "pointless." I'm not trying to preach anything or make anyone change what they do, and I think I've made that very clear so far.

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Ofcourse its justified! Just because people use flashy buttons and make the text saying 9.99 fee small, doesn't mean its a scam... Deceptive, sure, but most ads that make money are somewhat deceptive anyways so I could care less.

Its their fault for not reading it, plain and simple. They pay the price of their ignorance. I sleep really well at night btw.

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You can't push rebill offers because ppl get charged for $200 instead of the $1.99 S&H, you can't push credit score offers because ppl think they're free and don't read the fine print. In conclusion the only offers you can push without having an ethical dilemma are car insurance quotes?

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yeah, what we may term as 'spamming' others see as a legitimate business model. All depends on what side of the fence you are on.

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Exactly, 90% of the businesses out there hide the fees in small print, thats what i have been trying to tell the OP and I believe thats what polarbacon also wanted to tell, yet he will tell us its not comparable. The terms on the coreg path are mentioned on 2-3 places, as far as I know the terms are also in the text that they get on their mobiles phones. Sorry, but I think its the OP who fails to see the point here and not us, the terms are there, the fact that they ignore them its their own fault.

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@ibanze - Now you're just making absolutely terrible arguments here...

Rebill offers like the ones you mention are extremely, EXTREMELY deceptive which is EXACTLY why the government, FTC, and banks cracked down on them, put companies out of business, and fined people hundreds of millions of dollars (Jesse Wilms), and are threatening people with JAIL TIME. So yeah, you're 100% right - I do have a moral issue with those, and so does the government, as they're complete scams. You equating mobile offers to these types of offers just proves my point.

Same deal for "free" credit scores that charge you - they're also 100% deceptive. Credit agencies actually changed their terms so that you may NOT use the word "Free" in promoting a credit score service. I personally know people who ran offers like these and had their merchants account frozen. Again, people don't know they're buying something = governmental action, penalties, fines, etc. You're just proving me right here with these examples...

These two examples are scammy for the exact same reason mobiles are - the consumer doesn't know that they're buying something for $x-xxx. However, mobiles are EVEN WORSE, because at least in the two cases you mentioned the consumers are getting some sort of value, and know they're in the process of purchasing SOMETHING, whether it just be S&H (after all, they typed in their credit card). For mobiles, the users have no idea they're even "buying" something.

The major flaw with your argument is that you have the most short-sighted view of affiliate marketing I've ever encountered. Every rebill offer is NOT deceptive and illegal, neither is every credit score offer. You just pulled two examples of failed "business models" that got many people into trouble, and failed to acknowledge that there are legitimate ways to run rebill offers and credit report services, and that MANY legitimate and large companies do it. And you think the only affiliate offers besides pill rebills and credit scores are auto quotes? I don't think I need to even try to explain how wrong that is... affiliate offers are just a way of sharing revenue for any legitimate business, so you are essentially saying only pill rebill, credit report, and auto insurance businesses exist. I don't even have to explain how shortsighted that is...

On that same note, as I just said before, not every mobile billing offer is deceptive either. However, all the ones on SP and GT sure as hell are. Also, you mentioned I "won't push" those offers... how many times do I have to repeat that this is not a matter of pushing or not, it's a matter of understanding the reality behind what you're pushing? I mentioned multiple times I still run a ton of coreg traffic.

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In response to your latest post - YES, THE PROBLEM IS THAT THEY HIDE THE FEES. Do you actually think that's a legitimate business model? Mobile aggregator companies have gotten sued by state Attorney General for promoting practices of making the pricing text very hard to find. Jesse Wilms is facing criminal charges for doing it. How do you possibly think that it's OK to do it? Are you going to justify murder because people are murdered every day? Pointing out that someone else uses deceptive practices and are getting away with it does NOT make it ok.

Also, saying 90% of businesses hide their price in small print is just really, REALLY ridiculous. Banks hide fees in small print, yes, but that's a different ballgame then hiding the price of a consumer product. There are consumer protection laws against doing it. There is absolutely no way you are going to be able to justify this, so please stop trying already.

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This thread proves how completely retarded moralfags are.

Just to be clear, i will repeat myself one more time..... fees are on the page atleast 2-3x times per offer and in the text message. How many disclaimers do you want? I mean they have the skip button, disclaimers. I see the terms, I dont know how or why you dont see them.

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ok this thread ends now.....

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yeah I was about to lock it as well just getting out of hand.

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