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Media Buying? (29)

03-28-2011 01:46 PM #1 marcovandaar (Member)
Media Buying?

Hey Jordan - can you make a thread about media buying some time?

I (and i'm sure other people too) am really interested in learning it.

I want to do some media buys for the daily deals. But i really don't know where to start. How and where to find sites where you can buy ad space, what to do and what not to do, etc.

03-30-2011 03:11 AM #2 stackman (Administrator)

Sure, i've done both big and small buys and theyre completely different.

Big buys = $10k to start min, and it's with giant networks such as CPX, etc...

Small buys = contacting individual sites and asking for ad space, usually a better ROI, but it's a lot of work and negotiating

Which one are you interested in?

03-30-2011 04:07 AM #3 hd2010 (Member)

both, stackman, how about the infrastructure setup, i mean the tracker, server, cdn ...i'm not sure how is linked.

03-30-2011 04:42 AM #4 stackman (Administrator)

It's a mega topic, to write both would take some serious time lol.. i'm not just going to write fluff

@hd2010 what do you mean exactly?
It's just like anything else..

Great guide on small media buying, covers exactly everything i would cover, i can definitely answer any questions on it
http://rileypool.com/guide-to-buying-banner-inventory/

03-30-2011 05:12 AM #5 hd2010 (Member)

i mean what kind of tracker needed to track the impression, clicks and also what kind of server we're looking for a media buy, i don't think a vps would able to handle the load

03-30-2011 05:25 AM #6 Jay (Member)

Thanks for sharing the link to Riley's blog.

Do you have a recommended ad serving platform?

Also, at the moment, are media buys one of your primary sources of income?

03-30-2011 06:03 AM #7 marcovandaar (Member)

At this point i am more interested at small buys. First need to build up some experience before spending 10k on one buy.

But it would be nice to have a big buy guide too in the future!

Thanks for the link to riley pools blog post. i'll check it out!

03-30-2011 06:54 AM #8 stackman (Administrator)

@Jay Not running any media buys as we speak, they were never my strong field but I've ran a few big ones.
Advertising.com would be my fav, CPX in ok.

@marco the riley post is a series of post and covers absolutely everything! The main thing when doing it is not to be bummed out by the amount of replies you get back. It's all about how good you are at selling when trying to buy media off random websites

03-30-2011 06:56 AM #9 stackman (Administrator)

@hd2010 Well the company will track everything for you, you need to install a pixel with your affiliate network and the ad network will tell you which URLs are converting and which aren't. You should also use p202 or i guess cpvlab and you'll 100% want a dedicated server

03-31-2011 06:37 AM #10 hd2010 (Member)

thanks jordan

04-22-2011 04:00 PM #11 marcovandaar (Member)

Just found out about this site :http://www.buyads.com/

looks good and simple to use!

04-23-2011 12:59 AM #12 stackman (Administrator)

Yeah i was looking at buyads.com yesterday.
I don't think it'll end up working to well with affiliates. Pricy CPM and will take a lot of testing to find a niche that works on a site.

05-26-2011 10:04 PM #13 alex_b (Member)

Thanks for the suggestions stackman, you mention either big $10k buys (through big networks) as well as small site buys (direct, where you have to email 230492 owners to get 2 replies), what about the third option, self-serve platforms? In another thread the angry russian called it "self serve nonsense", is this traffic crap for affiliates or why would it be nonsense?

It seems there are a ton of self serve sites out there (adbrite, adsonar, pulse360, adblade etc. etc.) that I just don't know where to start. I have a very limited budget of $500 and would like to give it the best shot. I assumed with self serve platforms it wouldn't require a $10k budget to become profitable? Anyone having an answer to this, I'd appreciate if you could jump in.

05-27-2011 02:20 AM #14 The Angry Russian (Moderator)

You dont need $10k to get started with Pulse or AdSonar...

If you only have $500 to play with I would sate Sitescout is your best bet.

Also, dont get into media buying until you have a profitable campaign. Once you know how your offers perform and have good creatives then you can get serious.

05-28-2011 05:15 AM #15 alex_b (Member)

Thanks for the Sitescout recommendation. I compared their adserver pricing with adshuffle and they actually seem to be way cheaper, the problem is that they seem to force you into a minimum monthly purchase (i.e. $500/m fee for 6.25M impressions, no matter if you use them or not). Would you recommend one over the other in terms of features?

Also, how does Adshuffle's RTB platform compare to the one of Sitescout? (I'm specifically asking since Adshuffle claims to not charge anything if you use their self serve platform).

05-28-2011 06:42 AM #16 rileypool (Member)

Little bit of a tangent, but thanks for the feedback about the guide I wrote up guys. I have received literally, ZERO feedback on it. Glad to see some people find it useful.

05-28-2011 07:01 AM #17 adbeat_mike (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by alex_b View Post
Thanks for the Sitescout recommendation. I compared their adserver pricing with adshuffle and they actually seem to be way cheaper, the problem is that they seem to force you into a minimum monthly purchase (i.e. $500/m fee for 6.25M impressions, no matter if you use them or not). Would you recommend one over the other in terms of features?

Also, how does Adshuffle's RTB platform compare to the one of Sitescout? (I'm specifically asking since Adshuffle claims to not charge anything if you use their self serve platform).
Adshuffle Exchange is dead. As of June 1, they are dropping the exchange. Ad server is still fine.

05-28-2011 07:44 AM #18 alex_b (Member)

@riley: Yep, was a great guide. Re lack of feedback, at the end of the post you said to post comments below but when I looked there was no comment form, nothing, so maybe something is broken there?
Also, you mentioned tracking and ad server, I thought Adshuffle would do both, serve ads and track+optimize on the fly? If it does track/optimize already, why would something like prosper202 still be needed?

@adbeat_mike: Thanks for the heads up, didn't know that!

05-28-2011 08:06 AM #19 The Angry Russian (Moderator)

@alex_b: I've used AdShuffle and SiteScout extensively. You can't rely on just your ad server, I always combine it with 202 or CPVLabs (prefer cpv). Here's pro's and cons of both.

SiteScout
Pros: Multipane Ads (pulse 360 sytle), Quick Implementation, Piggy Back Pixels, Built in CDN
Cons: Ad Tags in JavaScript (issues when sending to retard publishers), No optimization, No LP Split Testing

AdShuffle
Pros: More "Enterprise", Self Optimization, Landing Page Support, Flexible Ad Tag Creation
Cons: Longer learning curve, SLOOOOOOWWWWWWW AS FUCK TO SET UP CAMPAIGNS,

We affiliates are cheap shits $500 for what SiteScout can do is well worth it. If you're serious about media buying its the way to go. I mostly use AdShuffle but htats only because I outsource building campaigns and set up. If I had to do it on my own I would probably shove a pencil in my eye. The system is gut wrenching slow. Litterally can take 30 seconds just to upload a few banners. What I would do is schedule a demo with both and see which one makes most sense to your needs.

05-28-2011 08:52 AM #20 dantheman (Member)

lol. Who do you outsource building campaigns to?
Have pushed traffic using pulse360 or adsonar yet?

05-28-2011 09:30 AM #21 The Angry Russian (Moderator)

Quote Originally Posted by dantheman View Post
lol. Who do you outsource building campaigns to?
Have pushed traffic using pulse360 or adsonar yet?
I have a part-time employee, US based that I trained in person. I tried outsourcing to virtual cheap overseas and has always led to a dissaster. The cost saving doesn't make up for the language barrier, time difference, incompetence, and flakiness.

As for Pulse360 and AdSonar, yes I ran them in the past, but I found going direct to publishers to be far more lucrative.

05-28-2011 03:24 PM #22 mattaw ()

Quote Originally Posted by The Angry Russian View Post
I have a part-time employee, US based that I trained in person. I tried outsourcing to virtual cheap overseas and has always led to a dissaster. The cost saving doesn't make up for the language barrier, time difference, incompetence, and flakiness.

As for Pulse360 and AdSonar, yes I ran them in the past, but I found going direct to publishers to be far more lucrative.
For text based media buys, yes going direct to a pub MAY be more lucrative, but remember, text based is easy to get going and adsonar at least has an awesome interface (performance manager) for optimizing your campaigns. I've done both heavily and each has its pros and cons, but also remember that not everyone has the money to slap down 5-10k prepay for a site specific buy, adsonar is another low limit easy entry platform.

Outsourcing wise, I'd never outsource to someone I didn't know and trust, I guess I'm just paranoid like that (so everyone that works for me I've known for a while and trust explicitly not to do anything shady like steal campaigns and the like).

Note: I don't personally run stuff these days, as it could be seen as a small conflict of interest with whatrunswhere, so my separate marketing company is headed up by someone else who does all that for me (just wanted to make that clear)

05-28-2011 06:29 PM #23 dantheman (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by The Angry Russian View Post
I have a part-time employee, US based that I trained in person. I tried outsourcing to virtual cheap overseas and has always led to a dissaster. The cost saving doesn't make up for the language barrier, time difference, incompetence, and flakiness.

As for Pulse360 and AdSonar, yes I ran them in the past, but I found going direct to publishers to be far more lucrative.
They don't "steal" anything? I can see why it's better to have a local employee although I can't really trust anyone.

As Matt was saying, it's much easier and can be optimized easier.

06-01-2011 03:00 PM #24 The Angry Russian (Moderator)

Quote Originally Posted by dantheman View Post
They don't "steal" anything? I can see why it's better to have a local employee although I can't really trust anyone.

As Matt was saying, it's much easier and can be optimized easier.
If you're afraid of theft your business isn't where it should be. You have to let go some parts in order to free up your time to focus on things that put more money in your pocket. Even if my employee stole my campaign hes missing the following.

1. Cash flow and credit
2. Industry knowledge to find hot offers, troubleshoot, etc
3. Industry contacts

Don't under estimate your skills there's a lot to go into it, a lot of headaches, risks, most people won't be able to tackle all of that. Lastly I had a rev share scheme to create incentives to perform and get the best CPM rates.

06-02-2011 03:36 AM #25 dantheman (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by The Angry Russian View Post
If you're afraid of theft your business isn't where it should be. You have to let go some parts in order to free up your time to focus on things that put more money in your pocket. Even if my employee stole my campaign hes missing the following.

1. Cash flow and credit
2. Industry knowledge to find hot offers, troubleshoot, etc
3. Industry contacts

Don't under estimate your skills there's a lot to go into it, a lot of headaches, risks, most people won't be able to tackle all of that. Lastly I had a rev share scheme to create incentives to perform and get the best CPM rates.
It's not that I'm afraid it's just I don't want it to happen. I definitely want to let go of some parts so I could focus on bigger & better things because some things are limiting me from doing that and is time consuming. What exactly does your employee do? Did he know some of some things about marketing before or did you train him? What type of work does he do? Yeah those 3 definitely seem like something he may be missing.

I am really looking to hire someone to help me expand and take off extra stress. Where did you find your employee?

Hope these aren't too many questions for you to answer

Yeah that's true.

06-02-2011 03:44 AM #26 The Angry Russian (Moderator)

I showed him how to find sites for Media Buying. He called them up negotiated CPM rates set up the tests (tags IOs all that boring ish). He also helped monitor day to day and do small optimization.

He had no background in marketing, or anything else really. Took about 1 week to train him.

06-02-2011 03:48 AM #27 theguvna ()

Quote Originally Posted by The Angry Russian View Post
I showed him how to find sites for Media Buying. He called them up negotiated CPM rates set up the tests (tags IOs all that boring ish). He also helped monitor day to day and do small optimization.

He had no background in marketing, or anything else really. Took about 1 week to train him.
Where did you find your assistant? I've been wanting to fully load off negotiating CPM's, IO's, tags, etc... as well as just a bunch of other responsibilities I see coming down the pipe. What kind of cost were you looking at for someone competent?

06-02-2011 04:27 AM #28 The Angry Russian (Moderator)

Quote Originally Posted by theguvna View Post
Where did you find your assistant? I've been wanting to fully load off negotiating CPM's, IO's, tags, etc... as well as just a bunch of other responsibilities I see coming down the pipe. What kind of cost were you looking at for someone competent?
It was my sister's friend. He was taking classes and was looking for a flexible job on the side. I paid him $10 an hour plus performance bonus.

If you're paranoid about people flaking and/stealing I reccomend hiring someone you can meet face to face.

01-02-2012 07:12 AM #29 bhaskar (Member)

Hi Angry russian,

Thank you for the tips. I apologise for my earlier remarks to you in my earlier post. Struggling in the process of writing/posting my follow along venture in PPV campaign with -93% ROI and media-buy venture with Sitescout with a -96% ROI.
How could one find sites to contact directly…if you can not find a single campaign after 40 days of your sincere effort… any help? Many thanks

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