Is it worth to optimize? (16)
Hi folks, I tried a new path.
I took 4 offers from Mobipium and put them into a Campaign in order to split test them. Traffic from Propeller.
I bid where Propeller was suggesting:
I think i should stop running these offers and move on.
Do u agree?
I don't think Mobipium offers are good for newbies in general. They have a lot of mobile content, mainly games and some other stuff like the "Happycall" you tested. They require experience and spying on others' landing pages. This is an overkill for you now. If you wanna run mobile content - choose captcha/sweeps/downloaders. They are easier to run and you basically have a few lander styles. You can even try to run them direct-linked if you want to get experience and first profitable campaigns. You can grab these on Mobipium as well if they have it
As to your screenshots:
1. You are testing inefficiently. You are definitely overspending
2. You are bidding too high. You should be bidding here:
By the way, there is an easier way to identify where you should be bidding on Propeller for pop traffic. Start setting up your campaign in CPM (like you would for SmartCPM, but choose CPM without launching your campaign), look at recommended bid, add 10-20% and switch to SmartCPM and place this bid
Conclusion: ditch these and move on to easier offers. Try captcha offers from Haka
I totally agree with Mr. Maestro.
Apart from that, all offers are like -100% ROI.
When you gave them enough budget (depends on payout) and you get such results then of course it's not worth it.
No single sign of success = move on 
Thanks folks. Thanks to your post from the other day I feel like:
So I stopped complaining and I got into testing. I'm happy I did it wrong. I just have find another 98 wrongs and I'll find the success one.
Ok being serious.
Regarding Mobipium it's the same conclusion I was going after, I felt like their offers are for advanced users.
➡️ I'm looking into Sweepstakes from Haka and Cpark. What do u think? Is this the right place?
May u explain why I should not bid so high? I red somewhere that I should bid a at the beginning of the highest point. Obviously that was wrong. Can u explain please?
I don't know Cpark but Haka is good.
Check my sig for a guide about Haka offers and direct linking 
Ok being serious.
But that's not the point. The point is to get more experienced. You have to launch campaigns and different iterations of them over and over again to get a good grasp of proper testing and deciding where to move on, where to change something, where to completely abandon campaigns, etc. For example, as for your starting post - it is from your own experience that you can tell that carrier billing games are total shit for pop traffic these days. it is also the same experience (and a few thousand $ invested) that can tell you why running captcha is easier. You can also discover some interesting insights about other verticals and traffic types - SOI sweepstakes and pop traffic, for example. It is only your own tests and experience that can tell you why X is easier than Y. That's why it is important to not get fixated on some round numbers like 100 campaigns and hoping that 101st will be a winner. Nope. You should focus on starting to understand why X or Y didn't work. Maybe pop traffic is not suitable for your offers. Maybe it is suitable, but some affiliates are running shady stuff. Maybe your landing page is bad. Maybe your offer is bad. Why is your offer bad? What if try to run offers from a network that specializes in a vertical you are trying to run?
"The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existence"
You should bid high enough to ensure good enough traffic quality. Bidding very high is pointless because the highest bidders are people who are running WL campaigns and have probably optimized them to death. Regarding the highest point - it is not necessary. Try my bidding advice and you will see that you can safely bid much lower than that because even Propeller recommends to bid there
Originally Posted by twinaxe
Check my sig for a guide about Haka offers and direct linking
Originally Posted by maestro
I'm used to run businesses so I know the drill.
The problem here is that if you run 100 campaign and none is profitable. What are you learning really?
Yes, in my case, as a newbie, I'm learning to use the tools and get my hands dirty which is ok but if you never got a green campaign, you really do not know what you are doing and what you are learning.
If you start a business in selling Ice Cream, after few weeks, you know that you should make more Vanilla and less Unicorn. You will know what works better in Winter and what in Summer. You see it selling every day. You have conversions.
I founded a Creative School starting with 4 Courses. I saw which one was making more subscriptions and info requests and I invested more into that field. Making money on that field, I had more budget to test other paths. I ended in creating a physical Academy which has 10 employees and innovates day by day.
What I'm saying?
The whole thing about learning is very nice and true but the but is there. If you invest money in offers and none is working, what are you really learning?
Maybe that you are doing mistakes one by one all in a row? Beside the before mentioned experience...but experience on what?
Technical skills? Yes.
Mindset? Yes.
But you are still guessing because you are at your campaign number 247 and you are still in red.
From my perspective, talking business, this is not the best way to learn a business.
Maybe the best way would be: Ok, I tried 100 offers, I'm missing something, let's hire a mentor and do some one to one sessions in order to understand what I'm missing. This is investing and learning.
Learning by mistakes is awesome, I agree 100%. But hitting your head on a sharp angle crossing your fingers that you "find" the holly offer, over and over again, is not very wise in my opinion.
Said that, I'm still on my maybe 6th one so I shut up and test, test and test
I hope you got what I mean in the right way.
Example: I followed the Vortex 1$ tutorial and yes, I learn a lot. Thanks from the bottom of my heart Amy!
But I continued to use Mobipium offers. Only after a week or more, I was told to not use those offers because they are made for advanced users. This only info will save me maybe from the eternal failure...you see what I mean?
Another example:
You as many others say:"don't waste your time on pop (if you are going to run them) and test push instead". This what i heard a lot.
On the other side a lot of people say:"Stay on Pops, you are to newbie for Push because creatives are involved. Stick with one traffic source and one vertical until you go green". This means: continue with Pops and one vertical.
U see what I mean. So yes, as you say, test, test and test.
But listening to your advice or to the other one, can literally change the path I'll be going through and the probability of a sooner success.
And of course, thanks so much for the bidding advice, that's helping a lot. ✌️
Thanks for your feedback Maestro, I very appreciate it. I hope you will read my comment with in the right way.
Originally Posted by twinaxe
Check my sig for a guide about Haka offers and direct linking
https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...Direct-Linking
Originally Posted by martinbe
As you said, you've successfully built courses and marketed them, but in that kind of marketing you have a set audience who you want to target, and you can get better and better at targeting and serving that audience.
On push/pops/native you are targeting EVERYONE, and its not possible to break it down and only target selected groups like on facebook or YouTube or organic.
As a result, all offers need to compete against all other offers. Therefore many things that kill it on facebook or YouTube don't work at all, and the offers that do work are ones that have mass-market appeal, and because it is all vs all, 99% of offers won't work, even if they do work on facebook when marketed to very specific groups. In addition, what works is constantly shifting and evolving.
As a result, a successful business model of push/pops/native affiliate marketing by definition involves testing tons and tons of offers and failing on 95-99% of them. There are no people making big money on push/pops/native who are succeeding with 50% of the offers they try, not even 10% honestly.
Its much more like fishing where you throw in 100 lines and get one bite.
With that being the case, there's really honestly only two reasons to run push/pops/native... either a) you want to become a world class expert in one of them, and monetize your experience via either affiliate offers, consulting, or agency media-buying, or b) to get practice at media-buying cheaply before moving on to facebook/adwords/youtube/etc.
I doubt there's more than 10-30 people/agencies worldwide making 6-7 figures a year profits on pops, to be honest, and I doubt there's more than 20-50 entities in native doing the same either, truth be told. They are both very small ponds.
So yeah... what are your goals? I don't remember your initial post on here... but if you just want to make 50k a year to support yourself, I'd do something easier like providing services on Upwork. If you want to make 10 million a year, I'd probably focus on facebook/youtube/adwords. That doesn't meant that push/pops can't be a useful part of your journey though, but I guess I'm just saying to examine your goals and determine exactly what it is you want.
A lot of folks who do @vortex's course just want to make their first sale online to 'prove' to themselves that it works. Others want to become a master of pops/push and derive fulltime income from it (which is a great strategy - I heartily endorse it). Others want a bit of cheap practice before moving on to larger traffic sources.
But as long as you're doing pops/push/natives you will always fail at 95% of the offers you try, even if you get to the point where you're making 7 figures a year profit from it.
You're obviously a very accomplished dude and I'm sure you'll find success at whatever you end up focusing on, but there's a lot of subtle distinctions in this whole web of traffic sources and strategies so wanted to throw my two cents in.
Hi @jack_l, yeah, you got what I was trying to say and thanks for taking the time to answer.
You got the point.
I'm aware that I'm a newbie in AM but I'm not newbie in business. Keep this in mind please, it's very important because I'm going into the AM thing because yes, I want to make those 10M per year. (well, I have to admit that even 1M would be ok but why not to dream big right?)
Said this, I red very well the post about setting realistic goals in starting with 5$ per day and move on. I get it and I agree 100%.
Now, after reading your post, since I have experience with FB and Adwords, should I continue to train with POP and PUSH in order to follow the right learning path or should I directly jump into FB and Adwords?
I'm confused here because I'm aware that jumping into FB and Adwords is like going to fish in an ocean full of sharks and it's easy to be killed.
I do not see my self being the wizard of POP, even if, if it makes you money, why not? I just find more interesting the whole process about targeting, angles, and so on, in sources as Fb and Adwords are.
Question: are u saying that the big money are in FB, Adwords, TikTok and NOT in pops, push and Native?
As I said before, I'm learning, I'm aware I'm a newbie here. I'm doing stupid questions because I'm convinced that a newbie should do stupid questions in order to really understand correctly the basics.
I know I asked this many times so forgive me @vortex but as many things in life, it takes time to make your mind clear and free from "fog".
Right now I'm trying some push as per @twinaxe amazing tutorial about direct. Will see how it goes.
But yeah, if I can ask again to all of you, if you would be me (and "I know you are you and not me" as T.Robbins says) which is the path you would walk?
Thanks to all of you, STM is like a big family!
Originally Posted by martinbe
Anyway... presuming your goal is to at least derive a full-time and at best make 7-8 figures a year via affiliate marketing via paid traffic, it basically comes down to a choice of traffic networks.
-Pops and Push are the cheapest to do, but have the lowest potential in terms of volume. Unless perhaps you get really into push and build your own huge push subscriber lists, etc. Pops generally has the kind of offers you've already seen, push there's a bit more variety, but not a ton of "copywriting" in either.
-Native has much higher potential profits than Pops or Push but is also more expensive. Potential isn't as great as Facebook/YouTube/Google stuff though. Very stable traffic source but this leads to a lot of competition. Creativity is very important in native and copywriting is a big part of it.
-TikTok is probably on par with native in volume right now, but is growing insanely fast. Very new, kind of wild west, very unstable I'd say. Probably requires highest amount of creativity.
-Facebook has insanely high rewards but it involves a huge amount of logistical work avoiding bans, and thus is kind of its own beast in a way. But there's probably thousands of people making a living via facebook ads in varying ways, so its not like its impossible by any means.
-Search Traffic (Adwords, Bing) is sort of its own beast too, though I'm sure there are people killing it with AM in it.
-YouTube has huge potential but you deal with bans, though they seem WAY more tolerant of affiliate offers lately.
So yeah, it really depends on your budget, your goals, your preferences, etc.
I tried Bing and YouTube briefly before getting banned from each for some dumb reason (my fault in both cases - though just from ignorance not trying to get around rules) and then settled into native, which I love, and then recently into TikTok.
@jaybot started with push I believe, built up mastery of it, and some profitable campaigns, then segued into native, and now into TikTok.
@ScottyG jumped right into the jungles of TikTok like he was Indiana Jones, failed over and over and over again for months, then finally cracked it and built some insanely profitable campaigns.
I don't think there's anything wrong with trying out a bunch of the above options up front and seeing which you like.
I think pops/push/TikTok/natives/YouTube all basically entail the same logistical knowledge... so the skills on all those translate pretty well...
Any/all of them are going to be insanely hard though, and there's lots of other options to make money online (freelancing, seo, brand building, site flipping, social media, consulting, agency work, SaaS building, etc) as you know.
All just depends on what you want to do
PS To answer your question - I was grouping pops/push/natives together in that they do not have interest targeting really, so you have to run mass-market appeal offers, compared to facebook, where you can specialize in Portugese-language info products on horse breeding if you want, or whatever other tiny niche you want to serve. Native is definitely bigger than pops/push in volume.
Said this, I red very well the post about setting realistic goals in starting with 5$ per day and move on. I get it and I agree 100%.
Now, after reading your post, since I have experience with FB and Adwords, should I continue to train with POP and PUSH in order to follow the right learning path or should I directly jump into FB and Adwords?
This is a huge goal that maybe 0.0001% or who knows how many of all people achieve.
With such goals you increase the chances to fail alot.
Why don´t you rather say for example "$10k per month", that´s $120k/year and absolutely doable.
When you reach that point theres nothing apart from your own mind holding you back from going bigger and bigger but the way to achieve it will be much less stressful.
And let´s be honest, $10k/month is a very good income already in every country worldwide.
Also when your goal is 10M or only 1M profit per year then better skip pops and push as well as low payout 1 clicks or click2sms offers.
Then I would rather recommend to run the big beasts like FB or Google where you have the volume and the quality to promote high payout offers.
$10k in US is completely different from $10k in Myanmar.
I can´t speak about native that much because I don´t run it but I woulod say there you can also make lots of money.
You can also make very good money on pops and push but again, it depends what you define as big money.
But then you can´t promote $0.40 payout offers, there you better run offers with $30+ or so payouts which also means that you have to invest much more money in it.
From the realistic and logical point of view I would strictly recommend you to start with pops because you still have to learn how tracking really works, how to use landing pages and so on.
Going to the big boys right now without having the basics done would probably be a financial suicide.
As I already said in another thread, "Keep your expectations realistic based on the level where you are and not where you want to be"
You don´t do yourself a favor when you try to run before you can walk, in by far most cases you will stumble and fall.
In the end it´s of course absolutely up to you which way you choose and no matter how you decide I will do my best to support you on your way but in my opinion no one should make the progress harder than needed.
Yes, seriously speaking, of course that's not my goal man. It would be nice but it can't be considered a goal. It's unrealistic.
I' already doing good income per month with my business so I'm really aiming high here and I'm aware it will not be an overnight success, this is very important.
I remember when i sold my first course, I did like 1000Euro in one month just selling online courses.
Than in few months i did 3k in 2 hours thanks to my mailing list.
Than in a year when I launch a course, I do like 6K in 24hours.
And all of this was just not possible in my brain when I was earning 1200 euro per month sitting in a shitty advertising agency giving them my life.
So why not replicate (and it will take time) the success of the best affiliates out there starting by doing 5euro per day and than grow.
Yes I agree with you:"From the realistic and logical point of view I would strictly recommend you to start with pops because you still have to learn how tracking really works, how to use landing pages and so on."
Im still very unsure about tracking so yes, I'm using pops in order to learn, this is a good strategy for sure!
That's why i had the doubts into jumping into the FB game here because I'm Aware i need to learn how to walk in AM.
Thanks man for your advices.
That's why i had the doubts into jumping into the FB game here because I'm Aware i need to learn how to walk in AM.
Means a campaign where your max possible profit is maybe $3 but your max possible spend is only $1 you can also only loose $1 in worst case.
When you have a campaign with potential to spend $1k per day you can also loose $1k per day in worst case.
Yep I agree with you 100%!
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