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Target: Profitable green campaigns (46)

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OK, I may be late for this but better late than never.

I have been in this forum since some time. And I must say this is an amazing platform for Affiliate Marketing. I really appreciate the efforts the leaders put on new members to guide them to success.

I have started this FA in hope for getting my journey profitable.

I will post the details soon.

Any suggestion regarding Geos, Affiliate Network or Bidding Model will be highly appreciable.

Thank you.

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Can't wait to see how this progresses

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Will be following. All the best

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It is never too late

Affiliate network: that would depend on what type of offers you are after. Let me tag @twinaxe here, he will have some suggestions for sure

Geos: depends on the offer type again, but I would suggest to target the lower TIER countries where the prices are lower and the competition isn't as fierce as in USA, for example.

Bidding : since this is in the PUSH section, let's assume you are going after push traffic. That mean you will most likely start with CPC, which is likely the best option too. But I see you actually started a discussion about bidding models here recently, so I'd say that part has been covered already: https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...-be-profitable

Looking forward to your initial results

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Thank you @ScottyG and @affpayinggao

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Thank you @matuloo

I am planning to go for lower tier geos for now. I have lot of things to learn. So, I cannot jump on higher tier geos and lets not consider the hole that will make in my pocket

As for bidding, although I have learned lots of affiliates are successfully running CPA campaigns, I had failed miserably on that. That may be because I have been failing in all campaigns overall.

I have been slightly successful in CPC on push, So I am going to consider that.

Will soon post the updates.

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I think you are right. When starting out, it's easy to make a few mistakes and it's hard to figure out what part broke down, so to speak. But the bidding model isn't usually the main reason.

Yup, CPC with push is the best one to start with, there is not much to think about here.

Looking forward to the updates!

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Affiliate Network: Haka
Traffic source: Propeller ads
Traffic type : Push- CPC
Offer: [1] Win iPhone 12 {1970}
Payout: 0.35$
LP: [1- giftbox]
Geos: FJ, MU, CW



The traffic flow is slow for these geos FJ, MU, CW respectively. I had launched these campaigns 2 days ago.
What to do in this case?

Do I need to choose high volumes Geos? I had tried PK, IN, AN, BZ with 0 or 1 conversion only and the cost was above 10$ for each geos within day so did not went further with it.

I may not be a good FA writer

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I stopped MU geo, as it crossed 10x payout without single conversion. Or should I keep it running?

Launched the same campaign in 4 more geos GF, GY, BS, BZ.

Targeting:
User activity- High+ Medium {high user have less traffic thus selected both}
Device: Mobile
Os: Android
Connection type: 3G and recommended ISP

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HAKA now provides performance data per geo + isp in form of ecpm.

Maybe watching it regularly could be indicator when to start and stop it.

When you hit a sweet spot you won't need to wait 10x payout for a conversion.

Also it might be worth asking them which offers perform best in the geos you run. So can save some testing money this way.

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Thank you @larsometer

Yeah I noticed the changes which provides data performance with geos, isp and ecpm; and that was nice idea you gave me about pausing and starting the campaign. I will consider that.

These geos and offers are all recommended by AM.

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Good FA so far!

@twinaxe would probably be able to give more advice - but in the meantime here would be my questions:

1)Did you just test a single lander? If so how did you decide on it? i.e. How do you know it will convert? And did you optimize it for speed?

2)How many ads did you run? And did you get inspiration from a spy tool?



Amy

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Thank you @vortex

1) As I have been mostly focused on sweeps, I tested 2 landers, one Spin wheel and another a gift box.
As you can see I got no remarkable conversions to decide, based on clicks, I choosed gift box. I surely dont know whether it will convert or not, but I had to start some way.
The fully loaded time in GTmetrix grade for LP is 209 ms. I guess loading within less than 1second is considered good.


2) No, I didnot got any inspiration from spy tools. I mostly run offers and geos recommended by Haka AM.

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Don't do that. While their recommendations used to be OK about a year ago, their recommendations lately have become complete horsehit.

Let's put a list of all Haka AM recommendations from the past week (plus my comments), see if you can spot some patterns:


France [FR] Yes. Good forever. But you will need a big test budget.

Spain [ES] Dear God no.
China [CN] Fuck no.
Russian Federation [RU] No chance.
Belarus [BY] No.
Azerbaijan [AZ] No.
United Arab Emirates [AE] Fuck no.
Croatia [HR] Absolutely not.
Bosnia and Herzegovina [BA] No.
Ukraine [UA] Fuck no.
South Africa [ZA] Jesus, wtf?! NO.
Paraguay [PY]: No.
Thailand [TH]: Fuck that! Are you kidding me? No.
El Salvador [SV] No.
Georgia [GE]: No.

Albania [AL] With solid WL and lander and offer: probably not.
Israel [IL]- : Can work once or twice a year. Not worth it usually.
Cyprus [CY]: On push, mayyyybe. You'll be competing with super-high-payout mobile content offers. I wouldn't bother.
Kazakhstan [KZ] Mayyyyyyybe with a nice WL.
Bolivia (Plurinational State of) [BO] Maybe. Good geo, but not at Haka payout.
Cote d'Ivoire [CI] Not with your budget.
Guyana [GY] Very small test. Usually shit.



Trinidad and Tobago [TT]: Good geo. Worth a test.
Bahamas [BS]: Worth a test.
Kyrgyzstan [KG]: Good geo to play with. Yes.
Moldova (Republic of) [MD] Possibly. Worth a test.
Mauritius [MU] Yes. Good geo for testing.
Tajikistan [TJ] Good for testing.
Costa Rica [CR] Maybe. It's worth a test.




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Granted, it's easier for me to say because I lost a bunch of money testing those already. But. You can also do a little bit of due diligence by checking traffic volumes and prices before deciding to dive into one of these geos for a $0.35 payout.






The nice thing about Haka is it accepts pretty much every geo on the planet. The bad thing is the AM recommendations, and 'Top' charts are fucking terrible.

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I truly am regretting my decision to start this FA late.

Thank you @jaybot for your suggestion.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I had tried almost all the geos listed above and let me tell you I didn't stop in 10X payout, My spending was way more .

Had tried BS, MU, MD, TJ, CR also with no luck ��.

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Last 3 days statistics:



These does not include the campaigns I had already stopped. They were trash . I am going to spend in campaigns wisely from now on. I am going to change Affiliate networks too. Hoping for some good statistics to share soon. Will ask for help if I find any promising offers.

Thank you

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Look at all this useful information here!

Told ya a Follow Along would pay off

Can't wait to see your progress over the next couple months

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Thank you @ScottyG
Yeah, I am loving these suggestions.

Can't wait to post green camps soon

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Thank you! But I was asking about push ads in the second question. Additional question is: Have you been using the same ads across campaigns?

Just trying to see whether that could be the bottleneck. Same goes for the landers. If you're using unproven landers and/or unproven ads, then maybe you should test more.

The lander load time is fantastic though!


Amy

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@jaybot: So in this case how we should approach to test HAKA offers ? Mass testing random geos gonna cost a lot, many GEOs only perform well for very short time and the profit may be not enough to cover the mass test budget.

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Thank you @vortex

And to answer your question, No, I have not got any inspiration for push creatives from spy tools. I haven't renew my subscription for spytool since some time.

I don't use same ads in all of my campaigns. I have tried different ad creatives through reference from Twinaxe Push Guide. Although Nowadays, As I have got some conversions, I use the most converted Icon image and creative when starting new campaigns. Sometimes same, sometimes with little modification.

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And to inform you all, I have decided to pause promoting Haka offers for some time.
I had also cut off all my push campaigns and shifted to pops. I think firstly I need to have some success with pops and then I can mess with push again.

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Due diligence (research the geo stats first), stick to testing rules and budget (don't spend more than 10x payout), and experience (failing a lot).

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Hello there,
Today I am going to share my last 7 days spending on Haka offers and Traffic Company offers.


Haka:
Push, CPC , 11 geos
Offers: sweeps, captcha




Traffic Company:
Pops, CPA goal, 23 geos
Offers: sweeps





I am promoting TC offers now. Although the payout is not stable and real low, the number of conversion is good.
I know my spending is way high for these offers but either way I am happy to be at -80% ROI, that's still better than -93% ROI.
And I have tested 23 different countries, and uncertainties in payout makes it harder when to stop.

The bidding model was CPA goal and I have 5-6 geos which are at negative 40-60% ROI. How can I make them to profitable or Its best to leave and try other geos?




I seriously need suggestion here, I am struck in this cycle again and again. I test sweeps (iphone) offers in different geos, let it run till loss equals to 10XPO and test again other geos with same result and again and again.

Would be glad to get in track, Please feel free to point my mistakes..


- I don't know writing about pop is allowed on push section or not, If its not allowed please inform me I can start new FA in POP section.

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Do you have a tracker? It's very difficult to read these stats from the Propeller dashboard.

What geos did you test? At what bid?

What targeting?

Android+iOS, separate?
Wifi only, 3G only, select carriers?
If so, which carriers or OS did best?
Did you exclude browsers? Or include everything?

What prizes did you test? Did you test anything other than iPhone? Cash? BMW?

Take your best geo so far, maybe the -45% camp and test it with all the different targeting options as separate camps. Test different bid levels.

Don't just test a bunch of geos and hope for green right away. You put out feelers. You find some promise, and then you test different options to try and optimize the best you can.

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In what time range do you see your ROI?

If you have -60% on cpa goal for the first few hours and conversions come in regularly and plenty --> that's a GOOD sign.

Then just watch it. If it is improving gradually then keep it. Sometimes can take a day or two until cpa goal is profitable. Only makes sense for a stable geo tho.

Of course there can be some set backs for an hour or so but you should see improving it in a kind of zigzag way. If not --> better stop it.

If you want to know your average payout for a geo/carrier smart cpm might be an option.

Just run it for a couple of hours or even days and find zones that at least convert around break even. Then just put these zones in a WL camp.

Also smart cpm allows you to test more landers and offers over a longer time. Cpa goal not that good here because it will just throttle down if avg performance of your test camp is poor.

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Thank you for your words @jaybot

I am using Funnel flux pro, the conversion and revenue is passed correctly in tracker but cost of my campaigns are very low compared to my spending, Thus I used propeller for showing my spending and conversion.

I mostly tested LATAM countries and bidding was CPA 0.10 to 0.14 depending upon the average payout provided by my AM.

Targeting was: Mobile- Android- 3G+wifi- Excluded Android view as your suggestion in other posts.

I had 2 good converted campaigns, although they were red, They still made more than 25 conversions on each,
In NG 3G traffic did most of conversions where as in GA, broadband had more conversions.

I only tested iPhone 11 or 12.
Am I supposed to test other prizes too?

I tried -45% ROI geo i.e GA, included 3 zones which had 20/3/2 conversions and other factors and started a new campaign in SCPM, But the result there is -75% ROI. Its still running But I am going to stop that too.

I definitely got that I cannot success by only testing bunch of geos.I still have more to learn. And will be glad to get help from Stm

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Hello @larsometer

It took me 1 full day to get that result [-60%ROI].

The campaigns was red all day and from 2nd day the traffic get very slow. I don't know what could go wrong with pops with cpa? May be bidding was low. I don't know.

I have not got any good result with SCPM till now, thus wanted to try cpa in pops.

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Smart cpm usually gives not that fast results. You usually run a test round at a defined budget. Then you search for a pattern and evaluate chances of improving it (different lander, targeting, etc.) --> there is lots of information in Amy's 40day tutorial.

As for cpa goal: If the offer is just not good or currently not converting even the smartest algo won't do magic. If you don't see a trend in performance stop it and maybe try later in case offers has a high dynamic (e.g. IVR).

Maybe go with really low payout offers first and try crazy shit. You won't lose much money there but you may gain some cost effective experiences.

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@larsometer whenever I run campaigns on SCPM I would let it run till 10Xpayout with out any conversions and if there occurs any conversions I let them run till the cost reach 10X payout or more. I am very wrong to let it run more, I know, But in hope of getting conversions I spend more with no luck.

Its just I am not getting any pattern in way, I hardly got any conversions on my Haka offers so, There is nothing to find any pattern there. I have gone through Amy's tutorial, That was the ist step in my AM journey. Its just I don't have any good result for optimization.

I have been considering to try some <0.05 offers too in order to get some knowledge on how can I use the data accquired from the campaigns, there getting conversions wont be hard right? And testing budget wont be very high. Which networks will you suggest ? My account is still pending on Zeydoo, So that remains me with Mobipium and Mobidea only.

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You can only find a pattern if there is one. Not enough conversions --> no pattern

In general low payout offers tend to convert better. But that doesn't mean that all 5ct offers are amazing. Most of them will be suckers. But with 5ct offers you can test several landers and several similar offers in one camp. With this approach you have higher chances to find an offer that works.

Zeydoo is a good network. Maybe hit them up here on STM.

Other chance would be to try IVR offers from traffic-company. They are very dynamic in performance and payout. However in some geos you get conversions quickly. That doesn't mean that you will be profitable. But without conversions it is really hard to understand the game and find patterns.

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Hey, Thank you @larsometer for the reply

I just mailed about my account approval on Zeydoo again ,they said they cannot approve my account without proof of payment from any other Affiliate Network. I hadn't reached minimum threshold in none of 2 my Affiliate Networks.

A very good friend of mine suggested TC about 3 weeks back and I am now promoting TC offers, And you are very right, their offers do convert. Although I am in deep red in TC campaigns, But at least there are some conversions with which I can work on later for my other campaigns. I am not going to try HAKA, May be its just me but their offers never worked for me. Sorry to be harsh.


Thank you

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First stable green campaign is worth a sharing no matter how little it is.

I am nowhere near to making any good results or recover my loss yet, but will soon get there. I still have lot to learn and work on how things work out.
Still, having on green camp whole day is such a relief.

I am having little green camps, Dont know what to do with them.. But also its good to see some green among deep red.

These continuous blood were making me restless, Finally I can breathe in GREENARY.

July24:


July25:



Thank you, for all the support and suggestion.

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Hello All,
Its been few days since I updated this FA.
I don't have any important thing to present you, Just me loosing money and jumping from one thing to another to make something work.

July 26:


July 27:


July 28:



I tried to work on those green camps, Started another campaign with high bidding in CPA that resulted in initial costing only and after 2nd day the traffic and payout were very low.


Started New camp with WL including only 4 zones with more than 3 conversions but that is also not so satisfactory.



I always bid higher than recommendation on SCPM in propeller for pops.

Now I am on total red. I stopped all my campaigns in pops.
Started with push again. That's more messy, as I have to take care of creatives and images with multi-languages. I have been using CPA because whenever I try CPC, the ROI is much lower.

So, What can I do to make my CPA camps alive after 2 days also?

Do I need to schedule any fixed time for the targeted geos to get more conversions on CPA?
Or, Any other suggestion regarding improvement for TC campaigns will be highly appreciable.


Thank you

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You need a good offer. There is no way around it.

If things don't work just try the next. Don't mess around too much to make things work. Don't get too attached. Accept that maybe 90%+ of the offers don't work.

You can deep dive once you have found a good offer. It will then bring enough cash to finance experiments.

And for sure once you have found a good offer you will know.

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@abitaach This here is the best advice!

Spend less on testing each offer, and test MORE offers. You've been testing too few offers, and holding your breath for each to work out.

Treat unproven offers like one-nighters - don't get emotionally attached to them. Do your thing, and if they don't perform right away, move onto the next offer.

It's not uncommon to need to test 10+, 20+, even 30+ offers to find one that's profitable! And THEN green pop camps tend to be short-lived. It's a numbers game. So if you don't spend just the minimum on testing each offer, it'd be hard for the profitable campaigns to make back your losses plus put money in your pocket.

For SCPM don't bid too high when you're just testing. Around $1 or just over that would be PLENTY for tier 1 geos. I often start at a fraction of that - $0.5 or even $0.3, often with good results.

But that's for pop. I know you're wanting to test push traffic some more - the same advice on the need to test more offers applies there as well.

As for affiliate networks: No need to limit yourself to just the networks covered in the tutorial. There are plenty other networks that are newbie friendly. Figure out how tracking works and you'll be able to set up tracking for any network - there's an entire lesson in the tutorial dedicated to explaining how tracking works.

And if you need help setting up a network, you can always ask for help here! And we'll figure it together.



Amy

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Yeah, I got that. I really need good offers.
I cannot say that TC offers are not good, Its just I lack at strategies to make it work.

And you are right, I get too attached with my promoting offers and expect everything to work.

If sweeps are not working, may be I should consider other verticals for testing too.

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Its just I wanted to work on single vertical and have success in it first. I have been sticking with sweeps since few months trying every possible ways to make it work, But looking back I regret not changing Affiliate Network soon as that was clearly not working for me. I have been wisely spending money on testing geos with TC offers, same offers just in different geos. I may be wrong to do that.

For SCPM, will you believe me when I say that I hadn't got any conversions on pops with SCPM in normal condition? I had only got few conversions in SCPM when I apply well converted zones from CPA camps on SCPM. Still it will be around -60% ROI and due to low traffic I eventually have to stop camps. I don't know why I cannot get single conversion on SCPM, even bidding higher than recommended price. I can only blame offers for that too.

As for push, I get conversions here and there with CPC but nothing sufficient to motivate for optimization.

And for CPA camps, they are so expensive first day and after 2nd day traffic just dies

For Affiliate Networks, I have been requesting for account approval in some more networks. I can explore more when I get approved by them. Till then I only have TC to work with.

Will soon update if I get approved.

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Have you tried "distributed traffic" option?

It allows you to spend your budget evenly throughout the day.

TC IVR offers sometimes work only for a couple of hours really good. So if you miss that spot it is difficult to get conversions on SCPM. Distributed option might help here.

Other option is to watch their performance stats regularly. You will see that some geos can be extremely hot (even for several days) . In many cases their ecpm data can be a good indicator. Of course it will happen that some geos just don't work for you.

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I normally use distributed traffic, I only use standard traffic when the traffic volume is low.
For TC offers I spend budget about 3 to 6$ depending upon traffic volume of geos But due to no conversions I have to eventually stop it.
And to be honest I had not used SCPM since long time.
I used CPA with pops and My God that's so expensive it makes me cry

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Nothing wrong with testing different geos for TC offers!

It's really strange that you were not able to get any conversions for SCPM unless with a whitelist. How many offers did you test on SCPM before you started using CPA to uncover good placements?

For push: More testing is required than for pop, because you have an additional variable (i.e. push ads). With pop it's easy to test offers - just rip the few most popular landers and if you don't get conversions you can basically be sure it's the offer. For push, you kind of just need to test enough ads with enough offers in the same vertical until you find ads that you KNOW work, then use those to test additional offers. Ads can go stale a LOT faster than landing pages do, so the need to continue testing ads will always be there.

It's a ton of work for sure.

What you said about not getting conversions bothers me. Is this just with one traffic source or are you not having luck with ANY traffic source? Or have you only been using one so far?

I was also thinking maybe it's your infrastructure. You're using Funnelflux Pro, and getting conversions, so it can't be a tracking issue.

How fast are your landing pages loading?

If you like, please feel free to send me a campaign url via PM. Please pick a campaign where you're using landers, and running offers that accept wifi traffic, and let me know other offer restrictions (geo, browser etc.)



Amy

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Yes, I posted it several times already but when you are still splittesting different offers/landers then CPA Goal can become very expensive and you can lose quite some money there.

It has to do with how the algorith works.

In the beginning of a CPA Goal campaign you receive high quality traffic on high bids.

I have pop campaigns for example where the bid for some African geos can be as high as $8 or so in the beginning of a CPA Goal campaign.

When your funnel doesn´t convert (good enough) the traffic will dry out but you still have to cover the expensive first traffic from the test.

I recommend to start with SCPM for pops or CPC for push/in-page.

That way you have more control over the bids and the adspend.

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I tested 2 offers in 3 geos for TC.



Yeah, push is hard than pops as we have to take care of creatives too. I start with 3 creatives in push campaign, May be that's the reason my testing budget is spend too quickly. After some conversion I stop the creative with low conversion. I always make sure to have ad CTR more than 1%. Isnt that considered ok?

As for Lp, I use prelanders of TC. They are good. Do you suggest to try other LP ?
I just use two prelander spin wheel and survey for propeller ads and google prize box for clickadu. They were said to be best by my AM. In propeller I will select the LP with more conversion and start a new camp with it. I am yet to get result on my new campaigns with winner LP.

I was using propeller ads only as traffic source and there was not a single conversion on SCPM but since few days I am also using Clickadu and I am getting some conversions from SCPM too. The google prize box is converting well in Clickadu, But due to low traffic volume I can only make revenue of 1 to 2$ only with 2 camps.


Messaged you my campaign url.

Thank you

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Thank you @twinaxe
You have been saying constantly that CPA bids will do not good if we don't have proved converting funnel. I got that very well.

And as for CPC and SCPM bids, Does it effect if I edited the bids pricing in running campaigns?

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Ah that may be why. It's not uncommon to get zero conversions when you've only tested 2 offers in 3 geos (assuming you didn't overspend).


Cutting based on conversions/ROI is always the best, no doubt about it.

I understand the desire to cut ads based on CTR - of course that would be the cheaper way. But it would involve more inaccuracy.

I've seen lots of cases where ads that have lower CTR have outperformed ads with higher CTR, in terms of CR/ROI.

It depends on how good the ad is in "pre-qualifying" prospects. For example you can have ads that are eye-catching and get lots of clicks, but if they're not attracting the "right" people, then nobody will go on to convert. On the other hand, an ad may have low CTR because only the ideal audience would be attracted by it and click through - in which case a high percentage of clickers may go on to convert.

For that reason, I really don't know how good the 1% criterion is. Not to mention the CTR range can vary from vertical to vertical.

To me, the only "safe" way to cut ads based on CTR, would be if you've already tested a lot of ads and offers and KNOW what the average CTR range is for best-converting ads.

But if you're testing a lot of ads and need a quick way to cut them, your way CAN be more efficient. Yes you'd be sacrificing on accuracy, but if you could make up for that by testing more ads, that MAY be a viable approach as well.

So - try to test more than 3 creatives.


I don't remember if TC offers the option of running with your own prelanders instead of theirs. But if they do, of course it would be better to split-test theirs against yours to see which is best.

I'm wondering: Why are you using the spin wheel and survey landers for propeller and the prize boxes for clickadu? Was it because you split-tested landing pages on both traffic sources and ended up with different "winners"?

How much money did you spend on PropellerAds' SCPM camps without a single conversion?


Sorry I meant the campaign url from your tracker. I think you've sent me the affiliate link from TC? I clicked on the link and it took me to a dating offer.




Amy

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Sometimes it does, I had several campaigns that were profitable and went into red when I changed the bid.

Since then when I want to change the general campaign bid I prefer to create a new campaign with the new bid, when you only want to change the bid for specific placements you can just do it in the running campaign.

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