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Long time return - Trying to scale Sweepstakes campaigns on Pop (10)

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Hey guys!

Little update on these WL campaigns.

I talked with my AM and said my bid were too low because and it’s a pretty competitive zone.

Will try to set a bigger than average bid to see how it will go. Was already testing different bids (with about 25% difference between each).

Let’s see what happens! It really bugs me out that a higher bid could do better, since it costs more. It’s really counterintuitive in my opinion.

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Good work getting to $50 / profit per day man...I'm still sitting here scratching my head chasing my first green campaign

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Thanks man, appreciate it!

I know how you feel, I've had plenty of red days, trust me!

Extra monetization (back, pop, push) is what really helped me reach profits, especially on super competitive countries. I guess collecting emails could also be interesting if you can pass the emails to the form on the offer page (some seems to allow this), but I did not reach this point yet.

Don't give up!

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Hey there, always happy to see a new follow along to give my 2cents to

It´s not only a lot for you, it´s indeed much money.

Let´s do our best to prevent you from losing such money again and rather turn such numbers into profit.

What exactly do you mean with "Target CPA", do you mean CPA Goal or do you mean SmartCPM with Auto Optimization?



When you run WL campaigns it´s not that good to orientate at the recommended bids because they don´t tell anything about the placements performance in your campaigns.

It´s better to sort the placements by EPC and then create so called "Bid Baskets" where you collect similar performing placemements and run them together in a WL campaign with an appropriate bid.

I wrote a bit about it HERE.

This shouldn´t be a problem, when you have good placements on pop traffic they are often good for very long time and shouldn´t burnout after few days.

Are you running several campaigns with the same targeting or in the same geo?

Because this could also explain the low number of unique visits.

Usually the unique visits are counted as 1 cookie in 24 hours.

When your tracker now checks the cookies for the whole tracker and not on a campaign level it happens that users can be shown as not unique although they are unique in a campaign.

Here is an example for better understanding:

You run 2 different sweep campaigns in DE, one for iPhone 11 and one for €500 Amazon Gift Card.

A user visits the iPhone 11 campaign and will be seen as unique in your tracker.
When the same user visits your €500 Amazon Gift Card campaign then in the same 24 hour window where the "unique" cookie is active he will be unique in the @500 Amazon campaign but can be shown as not unique because he already has the cookie from the other campaign.

I hope it makes sense for you

Btw, how do you consider placements to be good enough to run in a WL?

Dude, you should ask your AMs.

They have the insight and can give you good offers and a good offer is the most important element in a campaign.

Btw, would be great when you could insert images properly in your posts (check my signature )

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Hi Twinaxe!

Thanks a lot for your response, so much valuable informations in there!

I mean, I usually go with Smart CPM to start with and see what placements are, at least, converting. I don't use their Auto-optimization feature, as I find it waits too long to cut placements.

Then, when I have enough data, I go with "CPA Goal 2.0" feature with the "Good" placements (the ones that were converting in Smart CPM campaign)

It´s better to sort the placements by EPC and then create so called "Bid Baskets" where you collect similar performing placemements and run them together in a WL campaign with an appropriate bid

Ohh, really didn't think about this way! Well, that makes a lot of sense... Should I match the bid (with desired %ROI) with the EPV I actually get? Not sure how the EPC can help me bid "better", since it also depends on my Landings CTR. In my head, matching the bid with EPV will allow me to maintain a %ROI, the bid will only affect how much traffic I get in the end?

Are you running several campaigns with the same targeting or in the same geo?

I'm running a few campaigns indeed in the same geo campaigns.

For this specific Zone, I have a few campaigns that runs for exact same targeting, but different bids.

I didn't know the whole tracker cookie thing though. Will definitely keep this in mind while checking my stats!

Btw, how do you consider placements to be good enough to run in a WL?

Usually, since I don't have thousands of placements that runs profitable (and/or have good traffic volume), I consider "Good" placements to be either the ones profitable or that are loosing a bit (usually -30% as a maximum) in my "RON" campaigns where I'm testing multiple landings and offers. These WL campaigns then run with the best 2 Landings pages and either top 2 offers.

I continue "testing" to prevent the users from always seeing the same landing page and offer combination. I also tends to run 1 offer from Network A and 1 offer from Network B in case anything happens to one or the other.

Does it makes sense?

Dude, you should ask your AMs.

Just to clarify, I do ask my AM for my main geo I was talking about starting new geos after I get my main geo straight

Btw, would be great when you could insert images properly in your posts (check my signature )

Thanks for the tip! Will definitely do it next times!


Today's Update:

Okay, so I started a WL campaign with same targeting, with higher bid -> didn't work well. -85%

Should have waited for Twinaxe's tips!

But I also had a talk with one of my AM regarding so offers that seemed to drop as well -> Turns out they increased "scrub rate" a bit because of traffic quality of same specific placements (that were not from this WL campaign) so it affected the whole operation.

Also some tracking problems with another. Seems like everything happened at the same time!

Next steps:
I will carefully read and re-read Twinaxe's tips and analyse everything again so I can start better campaigns.

AND make sure my offers are okay and check (again) with my AM if traffic quality is okay and if not, what placements are too bad to keep for the advertiser!

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It´s better to do it the other way round.

When you run CPA Goal campaigns with a big BL or a real targeted WL you will waste lots of potential from these campaigns.
From my experience it´s best to run CPA Goal campaigns as RON.

That way you can then collect good data about placements to run in either SmartCPM BL campaigns or fixed CPM WL campaigns.

In this case EPC = EPV, it´s basically eCPM/1000.

HERE you can read a bit more about bid baskets.

No, matching the bid with the CPV will (in theory) maintain the ROI and volume.

When you set your bid more close to your EPV you will receive more volume with probably lower ROI.
Then you need to find the spot where the profit from higher volume at lower ROI is higher then the profit from lower volume and higher ROI.

There are different approaches for WL campaigns,

I personally only use profitable placements with at least 3 conversions in a WL but mostly I even take placements with at least 5 conversions.

Then I also run different whitelists like placements with 5/10/20 conversions.

I just set "Smart Rotation" in my tracker to prevent that situation.

Then a returning user will always see a different combination as long as there are unique combinations.

Only make sense when both offers are performing equally, otherwise it´s better to focus on the better offer.

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Hey everyone! Little update for this weekend:

Realized my data is supppeerrr messed up with different tracking sources on same campaigns from test I made earlier. I also had campaigns where cost wasn't tracking well (from earlier), conversions not tracking either.

Changed a bit of things in my tracker for my different traffic sources (ex. Push, Pop, Native, etc.). Everything will have its own "traffic source" in my tracker (Voluum), which (I think) will be easier to analyse afterwards. Will also split my campaigns so it's easier to analyse stats.

My costs and Conversions were also fixed a few weeks back, so shouldn't have trouble with this anymore.

Btw, how do you guys usually name your campaigns?
I tend to go with [TrafficType] [CPM/CPC/CPA] Offer_Note(if applicable) {Device} {OS} {WL/BL/RON} {User Activity (if applicable)}.

Still, I've started a few CPA Goal 2.0 Campaigns to kind of start from the beginning. With some sources blocked upfront and some of the best funnels I had globally as well.

Will try both "Smart CPM BL" and "Fixed CPM WL" campaigns when I get enough data (will also compare with data I had from earlier campaigns).

Got it! Will update when I start the new campaigns with the good data, based on "CPA Goal" campaigns.

I don't have this same exact thing in Voluum as you (I guess, based on my Google Search lol) have in Binom. But still, created rules for "unique" visits, so they see other landers/offers. But it's only good for the second (and later) visits from a same user. I guess that's still better than nothing!

The first LP is the best performing one with the best offer as well.

Yesterday:
- Losing a bit with the new CPA campaigns (-40$, -17%) but still, not so worried, traffic is low, but started quite a few campaigns for different OS. Overall, extra incomes (back, pop, push) is what kind of saved the day. Retargeting also helped me get a nice little bump in my revenues.

Today's update:
- Started a few push campaigns in the last days that are doing pretty well (+35%) right now. Will work toward the very best sources to scale my campaigns (with Medium and Low user activity)
- Waiting for my CPA campaigns to get enough data. Should be good in a few days.
- I also realized "CPM campaigns" had the "user activity" targeting option (didn't realize yet...), even though I can't track this information. So started a few super targeted WL campaigns on my very best sources to see how users behave on each "user activity". Not super big budgets, but I think it will be interesting to see what will happen. Maybe I had trouble getting my bid right, earlier, because of this.

Few questions:
1. I know it's recommended to separate different Device and OS in different campaigns, to get a more precise bid for every segment. Do you guys recommend creating different campaigns for different "Connection Type" combination as well? Is it worth it?

2. When scaling your winning campaigns to other networks, do you keep only the best Lander/Offer combination, with the exact same targeting (let's say Device, OS, Connection Type). I mean, at what point do you "restart" your testing phase on other networks?

3. Would you recommend going with CC Sub offers, once I get good and clean data from my "CPA Goal 2.0" campaigns?

4. I usually start my campaigns with a 1:24h Frequency cap. When do you think it's best to increase that cap?

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Trafficsource - Geo - Vertical - Connection/Device info - Bid info/activity/freshness/WL/BL

PropellerAds - United Kingdom - Sweeps - WiFi - H BL 0.06 (High activity, Blacklist, $0.06 CPC)

PropellerAds - Malaysia - Sweeps - Mobile - CPA 0.20 (Cpa Goal campaign with $0.20 CPA)

Pushground - Uruguay - Bitcoin System - Desktop - Sc 7UD BL 0.006 (Sc = Scale, 7UD = 0-7 and unknown days, Blacklist, $0.006 CPC)

Then focus on the best combo, otherwise you leave money on the table.

For low activity or RON I often see better success running WL campaigns there.

Yup, Fixed CPM has that option, Smart CPM doesn´t.

But user activity is not that important on pops than it is on push.

About not being able to track it, did you try that token {user_activity}?

It´s usually for push but maybe it works for pops as well.

Of course it depends on what to run.

Sometimes I run WiFi and 3G together for a quick test but later I mostly separate it.
Volume, bid and performance are often pretty different so that it´s better to keep it separated.

Only the best combo, that´s the best way to test it on other paltforms without spending much money on tests again.

Nobody can answer it, some people have more success with CC submits, others have more success with SOI.

There´s only one way to know it, test it

I never increase it and always run at 1:24

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Hey guys!

It's been a few days since my last post, but here are a few updates!

1. Okay, so I started a few campaigns with the stats I collected from the campaigns a few days back. I used the "bid baskets" as explained by Twinaxe. Not much success, but there, I suspected there was something with my offer... and Bingo!

After talking a bit with my AM, he told me the Advertiser was scrubbing scrubbing leads at a higher (or lower) rate depending on the profit they were making. So turns out, every time I tried starting WL campaigns, the problem wasn't the zones or bids, but rather the offer that was scrubbed at a higher rate. Every time I started new tests, they were decreasing the scrub rate to see and then after a few days increasing it.

2. So now, I'm working with lower budgets and a few campaigns that are still running (on low volume) and still profitable. I asked for more details on what IDs they liked (passing the informations in my offer ULR). Will also be looking for other offers in the mean time and try the WL zones I had from my previous campaigns.

3.

Totally makes sense!

Yep, unfortunately, it's not available for tracking on Pop.

But anyways, as you said, I didn't see much difference in performances from these settings, on pop. On push, it has major differences though.

Okay, will keep this in mind when starting new campaigns!

Also another test I have to do hahaha

However, if others may be interested, I'm running this on low volume, from re-targeting users who were interested/clicked on my LPs and it's working pretty well (mostly because of higher payouts).

I may start with CPL offers and then test CC Sub offers on my WL campaigns, may be better and waste less money.

Good to know!

Btw, thanks a lot for you help, that is suppppeerrr appreciated!

It's really kind of you to take some of your time to help rookies like me!

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Never thought to do this! Nice tip! I need to test that.

Do you set up new landers specifically, every time you make new campaigns to add the re-targeting script?

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