Now I running a profitable campaign, how to scale? Need help (18)

Hello everybody!

After the test, I picked two Lander, two quotes and one zoneid. Today, daily traffic has become a bottleneck. How should I scaleing below?
I test another Zoneid now, Now I am trying to test successful Lander and offers on other traffic sources, Please recommend some other traffic sources to help me! ! ! Thank you

Hello,

the only way to get more traffic is to open up more zoneids and to try different sources. Since this is in the push subforum, let's assume you are working with push traffic. Check Eriks thread on push, there are many sources listed in it that you can test: https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...f-Push-Traffic

Which ones have you tried already?

I think the bottlenack is caused since you started from the start with something that limits you, One Zoneid. There's a bunch of things that can work for you, expend your reach to more GEO's, More devices, more Zones, But more info could really help in this regard. Of course more traffic sources with a succesful offer can do the trick. Also, What's your win ratio? What's the percentage of traffic you are winning in comparison to the amount of potential traffic? Maybe raising your bid can resolve this?

Originally Posted by am2015

I think the bottlenack is caused since you started from the start with something that limits you, One Zoneid. There's a bunch of things that can work for you, expend your reach to more GEO's, More devices, more Zones, But more info could really help in this regard. Of course more traffic sources with a succesful offer can do the trick. Also, What's your win ratio? What's the percentage of traffic you are winning in comparison to the amount of potential traffic? Maybe raising your bid can resolve this?

If you're using propeller, I don't think the estimation is that accurate honestly. Also the CTR of your ads can affect how much traffic you get (which is not factored in when you run the estimation).

Other high quality traffic sources, are there any recommendations?

Good quality: Pushground (pleasure to use), richpush (annoying traffic reps), ZeroPark (tons of traffic but a pain to optimize)

No cost tracking, but good quality: Adsterra (not a lot of traffic in some geos), hilltopads (I don't know where their traffic comes from, some is really good though).

Pretty close to gambling: Advertizer (but you can be as crazy aggressive as you wish).

Avoid for now: megapush.

There's a ton more, but that should get you started

Originally Posted by jaybot

Good quality: Pushground (pleasure to use), richpush (annoying traffic reps), ZeroPark (tons of traffic but a pain to optimize)

No cost tracking, but good quality: Adsterra (not a lot of traffic in some geos), hilltopads (I don't know where their traffic comes from, some is really good though).

Pretty close to gambling: Advertizer (but you can be as crazy aggressive as you wish).

Avoid for now: megapush.

There's a ton more, but that should get you started

Originally Posted by dollar

This zoneid is expected to hit 13,000+ daily, but my campaign only won 300 of them.

I've had different results to jaybot with regards to the quality of sources so would suggest to test everything. Generally hear affiliates all have their own preferences when it comes to sources. For example I rarely run on pushground cause it doesn't work for me and still run on megapush despite the mishaps since it converts.

Originally Posted by sushiparlour

I've had different results to jaybot with regards to the quality of sources so would suggest to test everything.

This is a great topic to discuss in general because scaling is what every affiliate marketer wants to do, regardless of what media you are buying. The reality, however, is almost always different than simply testing for a small amount, getting good numbers, projecting them out over millions of clicks, and buying a lot of media. On occasion it does happen, but it is also a good way to go broke really fast. There ARE ways to scale, but they are more complex than that.

I got into direct marketing in 1996 with the old Jeff Paul-Dan Kennedy niche marketing system, which pre-dates the internet. I started with magazine ads and direct mail, which was a really valuable experience for my current online marketing. I wrote all my own copy, did all my own media buying and “insertions”- I still remember Fed-Exing “camera ready art” to magazines.

In direct mail and magazine advertising, scaling is called a “roll out” and the ongoing joke was finding that one, magic sales letter you could “mail the phone book” for. That means mailing to virtually every address in the country with a pitch so strong, that no one who receives it can resist it. The reality is you have to carefully test many different lists, discard those that don’t work, focus on the “hotlines” (recent buyers, within 30 days), talk to list brokers about what other lists may work for your offer, test those, etc. What usually happens is you wind up a small pool of lists that work, and you focus on those. This is dependent on the market, of course—in alternative health and financial markets for example, there are hundreds of lists, and millions of names to mail. But the process is still the same, even if you wind up with a much bigger pool. In affiliate marketing if you substitute “placements” for “lists” it’s virtually the same thing.

There have been at least two “mail the phone book” offers I’m aware of, the Gary Halbert Coat of Arms letter, and Joe Karbo’s famous Lazy Man’s Way to Riches ad.

The Halbert letter (which built a great company that came close to outliving Gary) was the first direct mail piece to use personalization, so when people got it, they literally thought someone had typed a letter just for them. It was brilliant, and Gary had to hire 32 stay at home moms in Bath, Ohio, just to open his mail and process his orders. His bank branch even built a second floor to accommodate his bank account.
The Lazy Man’s Way to Riches was a “right place- right time” ad, and everywhere Karbo ran it, it “pulled.” But Joe actually made his real money selling horse betting systems, and he sold those with a $2 bill letter i.e. “we are so confident our system will work for you, we have enclosed $2 for your very first bet.”

Both of those offers are, of course, rarities, and you could wait an entire lifetime to find one. But you don’t need a “mail the phone book” offer to get rich, you just need the right process to “roll out/scale.”

So, I’ll share mine. It’s worked well for me, and might give you some ideas too. I’m sure other very smart marketers on here have their own, might be similar, might be different, but here’s what I do.

When I get good numbers on a landing page placement based on a small test, the first thing I do is run the test again, to see if the result is in the same ballpark. On small tests it will vary, of course, but what you want to see is the results are, at least similar.
I always like to test $500 to $1000 for a banner buy, $2k for a cpc email test. Here’s a note of caution: it has been my experience that email list owners who want $5k or more for an initial test are to be viewed with a very skeptical eye. A good list owner will let you test for $2k because he or she knows you will come back if the numbers are good.

Also, if it’s been awhile since you’ve mailed a particular email list, and you are starting up again, start at the beginning of your scaling process with a $2k buy. Even if you’ve had good results in the past, list composition can change, owners can get in financial trouble and get up to dirty tricks, etc., so always view it as a new placement. I’ve learned my lesson with that one. Sudden divorce, for example, can turn an honest list owner “dishonest” very quickly. That’s just real world.

If my repeat test holds up, then I double the buy and start testing other placements with small buys. Never, ever, overspend on testing, this is another sure way to go broke. If you spent $500 on a banner buy and get good results, reconfirm with $500, not $2500. Oftentimes the results will NOT hold up and your $2500 is best spent testing other placements. Everyone has their own testing figures, these are the ones I personally like to use.

If I get good results on the “double buy” I do NOT immediately “scale.” There are way too many bad things that can go wrong if you suddenly start throwing money at something that looks good after a few tests. In direct mail, the old scam was always to give mailers who are testing the absolute best names, the recent “multi-buyers.” What would happen is a naïve mailer would test 5000 names, get stupendous results, then immediately “roll out” to 50,000 names, only to be shocked when the numbers didn’t hold up and the list owner was none the wiser (in direct mail, it’s usually the list owners who are up to no good, not the list brokers who need to maintain a good reputation). I am quite sure the same thing happens in email.

When my numbers hold up, I like to do a series of $5k buys to the traffic source, always keeping an eye on traffic quality for each buy. Now, I may do several sources at once so I have, say, $30k or more in play, but this is distributed amongst different sources, not thrown into a single source. I want the pub owners to know that I will keep buying from them, but that I am also keeping an eye on them to make sure they don’t get up to anything nefarious. If they keep sending good traffic, I keep buying, and at the end of the month, five $5k buys is the same as one $25k buy. But with a $25k buy, there are all kinds of things that can go bad while you are asleep, whereas with a $5k buy, the most you can lose is $5k.

Understand that while some publication owners get up to sketchy things (bots, sending cheap traffic from other sources and passing it off as their own, plus all kinds of other fishiness), bad things can happen even with the most honest ones. Sometimes their own traffic sources change quality without their knowledge, and that can affect YOUR traffic. If you have $25k invested all at once, it can be sorry, Charlie, don’t know what happened. But if you only do $5k at a time, that’s the most you can lose.

Also, understand that offers and landing pages always run their course. It’s the nature of this business, always has, always will be. The Halbert Coat of Arms letter died, as did Karbo’s Lazy Man’s Way to Riches. There are legendary affiliate offers that come and go, and sometimes the marketplace just changes. That’s why you never want to have too much capital out in one big buy because you never know when things will change. If you break it up into a series of smaller buys, you can protect yourself, while still scaling. The terms “small” and “big” are relative to each affiliate marketer, of course, but the thought process is the same.

At times it may make sense to do one big buy IF you get a really good rate from the pub owner AND you have a good relationship with them. But things still can go very wrong if you do this. I have done it successfully before, but I also “took a few seminars” and was left with nothing but an apology I couldn’t put in the bank.

So, that’s my process for rolling out (as a former direct mail guy I like that term better than “scaling”) and mitigating risk at the same time. Others may have different processes, but that’s what works for me, and it’s important to find one that works for you too.
Oh, and never, ever lose discipline with your process and start spending more because you get excited. This process protects you from that, so follow the process rigorously. Processes lead to riches, excitement leads to bankruptcy. Or even worse, having to go get a job.

Originally Posted by jaybot

Good quality: Pushground (pleasure to use), richpush (annoying traffic reps), ZeroPark (tons of traffic but a pain to optimize)

No cost tracking, but good quality: Adsterra (not a lot of traffic in some geos), hilltopads (I don't know where their traffic comes from, some is really good though).

Pretty close to gambling: Advertizer (but you can be as crazy aggressive as you wish).

Avoid for now: megapush.

There's a ton more, but that should get you started

Originally Posted by am2015

So when you get the chance, you can give us a try. We have over 330 million daily active users which we got from direct sites only. It's our data base. Plus, we have a bonus for all STMers, 50$ on your first deposit, and our minimum deposit is 50$. So feel free

Thanks Jaybot, for the recommendation. We agree the best option is to test all traffic with an empirical mindset. If you end up testing our traffic, be sure to mention to your account manager that you come from STM to get a cool 20% bonus on your deposit.

Originally Posted by dollar

So the name?

Originally Posted by dollar

Hello everybody!

After the test, I picked two Lander, two quotes and one zoneid. Today, daily traffic has become a bottleneck. How should I scaleing below?
I test another Zoneid now, Now I am trying to test successful Lander and offers on other traffic sources, Please recommend some other traffic sources to help me! ! ! Thank you

Traffic flow starts without moderation.

Wish you good luck

Originally Posted by johna5150

This is a great topic to discuss in general because scaling is what every affiliate marketer wants to do, regardless of what media you are buying. The reality, however, is almost always different than simply testing for a small amount, getting good numbers, projecting them out over millions of clicks, and buying a lot of media. On occasion it does happen, but it is also a good way to go broke really fast. There ARE ways to scale, but they are more complex than that.

I got into direct marketing in 1996 with the old Jeff Paul-Dan Kennedy niche marketing system, which pre-dates the internet. I started with magazine ads and direct mail, which was a really valuable experience for my current online marketing. I wrote all my own copy, did all my own media buying and “insertions”- I still remember Fed-Exing “camera ready art” to magazines.

In direct mail and magazine advertising, scaling is called a “roll out” and the ongoing joke was finding that one, magic sales letter you could “mail the phone book” for. That means mailing to virtually every address in the country with a pitch so strong, that no one who receives it can resist it. The reality is you have to carefully test many different lists, discard those that don’t work, focus on the “hotlines” (recent buyers, within 30 days), talk to list brokers about what other lists may work for your offer, test those, etc. What usually happens is you wind up a small pool of lists that work, and you focus on those. This is dependent on the market, of course—in alternative health and financial markets for example, there are hundreds of lists, and millions of names to mail. But the process is still the same, even if you wind up with a much bigger pool. In affiliate marketing if you substitute “placements” for “lists” it’s virtually the same thing.

There have been at least two “mail the phone book” offers I’m aware of, the Gary Halbert Coat of Arms letter, and Joe Karbo’s famous Lazy Man’s Way to Riches ad.

The Halbert letter (which built a great company that came close to outliving Gary) was the first direct mail piece to use personalization, so when people got it, they literally thought someone had typed a letter just for them. It was brilliant, and Gary had to hire 32 stay at home moms in Bath, Ohio, just to open his mail and process his orders. His bank branch even built a second floor to accommodate his bank account.
The Lazy Man’s Way to Riches was a “right place- right time” ad, and everywhere Karbo ran it, it “pulled.” But Joe actually made his real money selling horse betting systems, and he sold those with a $2 bill letter i.e. “we are so confident our system will work for you, we have enclosed $2 for your very first bet.”

Both of those offers are, of course, rarities, and you could wait an entire lifetime to find one. But you don’t need a “mail the phone book” offer to get rich, you just need the right process to “roll out/scale.”

So, I’ll share mine. It’s worked well for me, and might give you some ideas too. I’m sure other very smart marketers on here have their own, might be similar, might be different, but here’s what I do.

When I get good numbers on a landing page placement based on a small test, the first thing I do is run the test again, to see if the result is in the same ballpark. On small tests it will vary, of course, but what you want to see is the results are, at least similar.
I always like to test $500 to $1000 for a banner buy, $2k for a cpc email test. Here’s a note of caution: it has been my experience that email list owners who want $5k or more for an initial test are to be viewed with a very skeptical eye. A good list owner will let you test for $2k because he or she knows you will come back if the numbers are good.

Also, if it’s been awhile since you’ve mailed a particular email list, and you are starting up again, start at the beginning of your scaling process with a $2k buy. Even if you’ve had good results in the past, list composition can change, owners can get in financial trouble and get up to dirty tricks, etc., so always view it as a new placement. I’ve learned my lesson with that one. Sudden divorce, for example, can turn an honest list owner “dishonest” very quickly. That’s just real world.

If my repeat test holds up, then I double the buy and start testing other placements with small buys. Never, ever, overspend on testing, this is another sure way to go broke. If you spent $500 on a banner buy and get good results, reconfirm with $500, not $2500. Oftentimes the results will NOT hold up and your $2500 is best spent testing other placements. Everyone has their own testing figures, these are the ones I personally like to use.

If I get good results on the “double buy” I do NOT immediately “scale.” There are way too many bad things that can go wrong if you suddenly start throwing money at something that looks good after a few tests. In direct mail, the old scam was always to give mailers who are testing the absolute best names, the recent “multi-buyers.” What would happen is a naïve mailer would test 5000 names, get stupendous results, then immediately “roll out” to 50,000 names, only to be shocked when the numbers didn’t hold up and the list owner was none the wiser (in direct mail, it’s usually the list owners who are up to no good, not the list brokers who need to maintain a good reputation). I am quite sure the same thing happens in email.

When my numbers hold up, I like to do a series of $5k buys to the traffic source, always keeping an eye on traffic quality for each buy. Now, I may do several sources at once so I have, say, $30k or more in play, but this is distributed amongst different sources, not thrown into a single source. I want the pub owners to know that I will keep buying from them, but that I am also keeping an eye on them to make sure they don’t get up to anything nefarious. If they keep sending good traffic, I keep buying, and at the end of the month, five $5k buys is the same as one $25k buy. But with a $25k buy, there are all kinds of things that can go bad while you are asleep, whereas with a $5k buy, the most you can lose is $5k.

Understand that while some publication owners get up to sketchy things (bots, sending cheap traffic from other sources and passing it off as their own, plus all kinds of other fishiness), bad things can happen even with the most honest ones. Sometimes their own traffic sources change quality without their knowledge, and that can affect YOUR traffic. If you have $25k invested all at once, it can be sorry, Charlie, don’t know what happened. But if you only do $5k at a time, that’s the most you can lose.

Also, understand that offers and landing pages always run their course. It’s the nature of this business, always has, always will be. The Halbert Coat of Arms letter died, as did Karbo’s Lazy Man’s Way to Riches. There are legendary affiliate offers that come and go, and sometimes the marketplace just changes. That’s why you never want to have too much capital out in one big buy because you never know when things will change. If you break it up into a series of smaller buys, you can protect yourself, while still scaling. The terms “small” and “big” are relative to each affiliate marketer, of course, but the thought process is the same.

At times it may make sense to do one big buy IF you get a really good rate from the pub owner AND you have a good relationship with them. But things still can go very wrong if you do this. I have done it successfully before, but I also “took a few seminars” and was left with nothing but an apology I couldn’t put in the bank.

So, that’s my process for rolling out (as a former direct mail guy I like that term better than “scaling”) and mitigating risk at the same time. Others may have different processes, but that’s what works for me, and it’s important to find one that works for you too.
Oh, and never, ever lose discipline with your process and start spending more because you get excited. This process protects you from that, so follow the process rigorously. Processes lead to riches, excitement leads to bankruptcy. Or even worse, having to go get a job.