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Starting From The Beginning (46)

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Hey guys!

About 3 days ago I realized that I have know about push for a year or two, but I have never tried it so I decided to go ahead and set up my first campaigns. Today, well.. I have gathered some experience:



Since I'm used to pops, I'm super surprised that I don't have -100% ROI (it's -33.9%)

So far I'm loving it, but I know I have a long road ahead. I decided to switch off all of my pops campaigns and focus fully on push right now.

So like with pops, my traffic source is Zeropark. I tried PropellerAds with a proven campaign, but ended up ~$90 in loss.

Anyway, I'm doing my best to update my progress as much as I can because I'm trying to learn as much as possible.

So what I'm doing right now is trying to figure out which offers I should promote. I have one nice $9 offer which is floating around break even point, but I have not been able to get it profitable (at the end of the day). I'd like to use megapush, but I'm having super hard time funding my account because they don't like my card for some reason. Ideally I'd focus on geos that have tons of cheap traffic so I have enough traffic (for reasonable amount of money) to understand what I'm doing.

So yeah, all suggestions and tips are welcome!

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So last night I split my nice $9 offer into 3 campaigns.

Campaign #1 is the old campaign that I used for collecting conversions so I could optimize my traffic
Campaign #2 is all converting targets from the Campaign #1
Campaign #3 is all of the converting sources from Campaign #1

I also paused all of those converting targets in Campaign #1 that I added to Campaign #2 so the Campaign #1 can collect data from other sources.

I have tried increasing the bid from $0.02 to $0.05, but it really didn't help much.. so I guess I'll leave them as they are right now.

I'll be picking up some new offers today which I plan to test. I will try some T3 countries with a reasonable $1-2+ CPL offer. Fingers crossed.

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So it seems this split worked... mostly. My source campaign ended up in $21.92 profit and my main campaign had $7.74 profit, but targets campaign didn't get any conversions for some reason and stayed in $13.66 red. Overall, all of my campaigns combined I was $9.81 in green so yay!



Last night I set up one cc submit for iPhone/Samsung offers, both $14.40 and one pin submit which is $5.80. Will see how those will work.

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Those are some pretty good numbers for the start, nice

What worked well for me in push and you might easily replicate it, was to start a lot of campaigns in order to drive up the volume, instead of pushing the bids high. Every new campaign will get some traffic, so their algo can determine the CTR and decide how frequently to show your ads (thats how cpc works) so you can use this to your advantage.

Also make sure to test a wide array of ads, various styles, different copy ... icons, targeted copy, broad copy just to get attention.

High payout sweeps worked better for me and plenty of other push affiliates report the same, so definitely give those CC sweeps a go. And test all the networks out there, part of the inventory is the same on all/most of them, but each source has some exclusive pubs too.

The regulations are tightening up, but the more aggressive LP you can manage to get approved, the better the conversions will be.

Looking forward to your results

Matej.

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You mean.. I take 1 offer and then create like 10 campaigns of it?

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Nice! More affiliates that are running pops should expand to push like you did!

It can be cheaper and easier to do the testing on pop first, by split-testing offers and landers to find a good combo, THEN taking those to a push network and focus on testing ads.

Looking forward to seeing how you fare!



Amy

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Ah, I didn’t realize I should do that. That’s a great idea actually. I’ll do that first thing tomorrow.

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I've noticed this as well but was thinking generally how long this "abnormal" amount of traffic would last for in your opinion? Just thinking how often to cycle through them and whether it is worth it versus how it would cause an organisational mess on my traffic source UI (these things bother me lol).

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Unfortunately, I did not have the best day yesterday. I did found one offer that converted well and then suddenly stopped. It wasn't capped, it just didn't convert at all.
Also, none of my $9 offers converted for some reason. I usually have received few of them at least, but yeah.



Still got tons of testing to do and tons of offers to pick. I'm not super happy about campaigns stopping converting. It's like.. they work and work and for absolutely no reason they stop. This is like 3rd offer that's experiencing this issue. Not sure why.

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Well, you never know, it can die quickly, but some of the campaigns could pick up and run for a while. PUSH requires a lot of ads to be submitted, they die pretty quickly, the lists get saturated... throwing out a LOT of campaigns really helped me. It's a mess in a way for sure, but nothing that you couldn't manage I believe. The key is to develop some system when it comes to labeling the campaigns, so you don't get lost in the list. Then its doable.

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Okay, so today was the weirdest day... Day started nicely -$20 and nothing converted. So I left my offers running and minded my business. Next thing I saw was conversions flying in. So I did some optimization and my $9 offer started converting well again.

Then I decided to add a new campaign.. and voila, more conversions came in. So I was quite happy.

At the end of the day I decided to try a cc submit.. because I won't be giving up on them. I set up a campaign and started building a second lp for it while waiting for an approval email.
Next thing I saw was $87 spend for my campaign and 0 conversions. I felt exactly like when I started with pops and burned through my $500 budget in minutes, but then something incredible happened. That expensive campaign started bringing in conversions.. lol and at the end of the day, I was only -$0.67 with that campaign. I'm super happy and I did not expect that. Tomorrow I will optimize that campaign more and will try to get it profitable (it was like $5.50 profitable for a moment).

Anyway, here are my stats for yesterday:



I'm happy, I hope tomorrow is as great day as yesterday. (it's 00:35 at night).

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Damn, running cc submits on T1 countries is intense.. just sayin. Random thought while I try to keep my cool.

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Ok so, yesterday was quite a bad day lol. I was testing my cc submit to find out which sources are working well and as you might think, was quite expensive.



Unfortunately, the main offer I used... well, I was asked to stop sending traffic to it because I sent too many clicks. I set my back button script to go to offer page which caused tons of clicks.
So I had to use other ones.. but they didn't convert much really. But I was able to get a bunch of info from my campaign + from my zp AM.

I set up a sources campaign for my offer and I'll be sending traffic there. I don't think I'll send that much again, probably $100-200 to see how it works or if it converts well then I'll send as much as possible.

Anyway, it was really intense day and I'm a bit sad that I ended it with such large loss, but yeah.. you have to learn somehow.

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Yup this is the kind of stuff that makes optimization decisions so difficult: The volatility in performance.

Do you think it may be a case of delayed conversion postback? May be worth comparing the timestamps on conversions between the tracker and aff network.

I'm also wondering if you'd get any insight by drilling down to hourly stats, and doing a day-by-day comparison to see if you could spot any trends.


Ouch!

But it was necessary - you were testing sources. It could just as well turned out the other way.

Were you able to find some good/bad sources though?

And time to test more offers! The main offer being pulled may be a blessing in disguise - if you find a better-converting offer as a result.

Hang in there! You're doing really well - only 3-4 days into a new traffic type and getting decent results even while learning. And things can only look up as you gain more experience.



Amy

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Oh sure, I already set up some new campaigns and running my source campaign for cc submit offers. Luckily it already converted while I was sleeping so I have a little $20 buffer there already :P

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Nice start.

I keep my fingers crossed that you will find a big winner soon.

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I hope so too. Well, I'll do my best of course, but right now I feel like I want to go forward with cc submits because damn they are great.

Only issue is that I think I don't have enough data or something. This is super strange.. I start my campaigns in the morning and BAM, $70-100 profit in no time and then when afternoon comes everything drops to like -$100. So I feel like I'm missing something here. But it's not like offer related.. I'm running EU traffic and every single day, afternoon is what's killing all my profits and at the end of the day I'll be in nice loss. So now I decided to pause everything until the evening.. like around 19:00 and then start again. I'll see how it goes. I mean, it's super strange.. Like literally 0 conversions to any of my offers (5) come during afternoon like all offers are capped or something.

I guess I have to try more... I mean, I really don't feel like doing campaigns and ending up -$400 in loss lol so I have to act smarter.

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Feel the same mate, but I really hope that you'll meet a success soon. We just have to continue

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Yes sir. Tomorrow, I'll try a little different idea and will post results tomorrow night.

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Okay, so I think I'm starting to slowly understand what's up now. Unfortunately, the afternoon was the one that killed my profits. But I may be on to something there. I will need to test a bit more and then I'll share

Anyway, here's my yesterday's stats. Nothing fancy, nice loss.. as it goes with learning. Day started nicely ~$76 in profit and then afternoon came

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I decided to switch to cheaper geos. I have 5 geos that I'll try now, T2 ones. Their bids are at least 2x smaller, but have tons of volume as well. I'll see how it goes there.

Another thing I did was I set up daily budgets for campaigns. Before I just ran until I was out of money. Now I'm going to limit campaigns so they don't go crazy and I get more data (hourly, daily etc) plus it allows ZP to block targets a bit more accurately.

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So yesterday was quite bad as well, but I made tons of optimizations and everything should be better today.

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Nice to see you're trying different things to optimize the campaign.

Gonna ask this again: Have you drilled down into hourly stats to identify any trends? If afternoons are always unprofitable for you then it would make sense to daypart.



Amy


Sent from my SM-G930W8 using STM Forums mobile app

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I was struggling with this too. Campaigns started nicely, leads we coming in, then all of a sudden no more leads. I wasn't able to figure out what caused this, so had to resort to dayparting. Later on, I got my hands on a new set of offers, where this behavior wasn't that dramatic. So I assume it had to do with scrubbing or some optimizations on the offer end. Maybe they were changing something in the flow or I dunno what.

It can also have something to do with the push network algo. Based on my experience, the quality can be pretty unstable. I guess it depends on how and when they blast the messages.

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Yeah, I have been using dayparting as well, but the thing is.. it's not one specific offer, it's like nearly all of them. Rarely something comes through during afternoon. Not sure, strange. I'm just testing here and will see how it works. I really dont't get many conversions so it's a bit difficult to figure it out right now.

So yesterday, I was testing T2 cc submits and got 1 conversion which is great. Now I have to run a bit more traffic to it to see what's up. I decided to pause my $9 offer because it just didn't convert enough. Still got tons of testing to do, but things are looking better.

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So things are going better. I'm quite happy. I found a cc submit from T2 country and it converts like a mad man. I tested few things yesterday which is why the loss is so big, but today it shouldn't be that big.
Anyway, it feels like I'm going the right way!

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Great! Working with the right offer is one of the most important things. There is no optimization possible without a stable flow of conversions, so it's great you're seeing them coming in Hopefully, this one won't have those dull periods with no conversions throughout the day.

Try to scale the same funnel to more sources now, to see if it performs well on different traffic too.

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I notice that delayed conversions are more prevalent in CC submits than SOI (might be because they need to cross check more data). You might want to check back on your data especially if 1-2 conversions can significantly influence your campaign at this point. I've had ones delayed for 2-3 days sometimes and wouldn't have spotted it except I was checking my conversion report the other day to look for a specific conversion.

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Very true, the more complicated the flow is, the more late conversions can appear. With SOIs it's usually not the case, since all it takes is usually to enter an email or something like that. With DOIs, where a confirmation is required, late conversions start to happen more frequently and with a CC submit (or similar) it's quite common to see them.

It also depends on the traffic type, with a banner click the person knows that they clicked so they either checkout the funnel or not. But with popunders or push notifications, they might notice after a while and complete the signup sequence later on.

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Well, so today I tried to scale my "well" concerting ccsubmit and voila.. $100+ spent and 0 conversions I don't feel like showing my stats today because there's nothing to see.. Absolutely nothing converted today. I sent over 11k clicks and a nice fat 0 conversions is looking at me.

So yea, I don't know. I guess it's time to switch countries/offers. This big loss (almost $1000 total, if not more) really doesn't encourage me that much. What confuses me is how those offers just stop converting.

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Your FA is so inspiring...thanks for taking the time to post! I was wondering if you could share whether these green camps are both desktop and mobile for cc submits.

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I'm glad to hear that . I'm running only mobile traffic.

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Carrier or Wi-Fi? I see there is more Wi-Fi traffic volume than carrier traffic and it is maybe cheaper but dont know how to optimize. With carrier I easy can cut carriers but this leaves me with even less traffic.

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It doesn’t matter which one I pick. It all depends on the offer and you should make decisions based on your traffic and offer.

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I love your ROI, it's very HEALTHY

I know you're on vacation, but this is the situation when you should scale it as much as possible. Every campaign dies eventually, it would be a pity to let it slip through your fingers without fully milking it.

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Tips on how to get to 4-figures/day (btw I was referring to profits, not revenue - although either would be sweet to experience for the first time):

-Yes - NOW would be the most perfect time to test more traffic networks/sources - when you have a winner. This is something you can't do without a winner (because then you'd just be spending test budget on multiple sources = a waste of money).

Don't focus just on maximizing profits for THIS campaign! Invest in your future by exploring more networks, so that for all future campaigns, you'll have so much more traffic at your disposal, which will allow you to scale so much faster before an offer dies.

-Start testing more geos! Ask your AM for good CC subs in other geos, particularly ones by the same advertiser. If you don't have a lot of cashflow, test smaller geos. If you do, try bigger ones.

-Work with direct advertisers and more networks to get access to more great offers! Start by split-testing your current winning offer against other ones in the same geo. Then of course test more geos as mentioned before. Some of the best networks and advertisers for sweeps:

Ad-Center
Big Bang Ads
Clickdealer
Creative Clicks
Fluent
Gotzha
iMailo
Online Activity
Qubiq
Response Concepts
VIP Response
Wewe Media
YepAds
Zinq Media

Here are some top offers I got over the last few days, just to give you an idea:

Fluent: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fbw0hgqc10...g2019.txt?dl=0
BigBangAds: https://www.dropbox.com/s/nngr7xk1gi...Jul19.xls?dl=0
Wewe Media: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...55o/edit#gid=0

-@affiliatecase just posted a simply excellent case study involving using CPA to uncover the best traffic, then running CPM - a must-read:

https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...s-on-Adsterra)

-This one will take your profits way beyond just 4-figures/day: Expand into other traffic types! Pop + Push are just the most obvious ones. There's also Facebook and Instagram and snapchat (read all of @stickupkid's threads on how to run sweeps on FB), google display, other banner display, and email. But of course you may want to stick with push for a bit to scale things properly before venturing outside.



As I may have mentioned before, I'm currently interviewing the best experts in the industry that have a main/sole focus in the sweeps vertical, to write a guide on how to succeed in this vertical. The guide is REALLY coming together and I'm very very eager to post it hopefully in 2 weeks. I think it will give you the tips you'll need to take things to that next level.

In the meantime though, you already have the skill to reach 4 figures! There's not much difference between $100 and $1000 - just do more testing and scaling!

All the best!



Amy

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Oh yeah, I'm absolutely doing that. Actually, I have been thinking about moving completely to Adwords/FB because push unfortunately is not extremely stable so it really annoys me. But before I do that I'll try to scale to as many networks as I can. The biggest problem right now is that networks don't want to accept my cards for some reason and I really don't feel like wiring them few k.

I read the CPA target one and I'll be trying out as well. Unfortunately, all networks that have CPA available run it on pops, not push. I have not tried my campaign on pops, but I guess I'll try it out as well.
I have a week to go for my vacation and once I'm back in the office, I can start focusing on that campaign again. I haven't run any traffic for like 4 days right now. If I could get it to 20 conversions a day I could ask for a little bump :P It would help.

I have one super nice offer for one T1 country, but it's super expensive to test it, unfortunately. So I will need to think about it as well.

That being said, I really am thinking about moving to Adwords/FB because I want to have more stable traffic and we will launch a new ecom brand next year and I need to get good at sending traffic to it from Adwords/FB.

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Yes FB and adwords work great for sweeps. But based on feedback from a lot of the people I've been interviewing, push is working great still.

Each traffic type has its pros and cons.

-With FB you need to get accounts because sweeps are greyhat. Some people cloak, although I understand from stickupkid that it's not required, especially if you run lower volume across multiple accounts. But you will likely still get banned occasionally, especially in the beginning when testing what kinds of angles FB will accept and which ones not.

-With Adwords, compliance is again an issue. Plus costs are high.

-With Push you always know the cons.


Point is: The grass always looks greener on the other side. It may be easier to focus on making push work better - since you got it to work already. With FB and Adwords there will be a learning curve.

Not trying to discourage you from expanding to FB/Adwords at all - those can be simply amazing to master in the long run, and if you do you'll be able to run so much more than just sweeps - like that new ecom brand you'll be launching. Just providing the other side of the argument for your consideration. If you can use Push to scale real fast to 4-figures, those profits can be used to fund your other ventures (e.g. ecom, FB, Adwords).

As for wiring funds: Why wouldn't networks accept your credit card? Would it help if you had a US credit card (if you're not American)? Let's discuss this one more. Also let me know which networks you're having this issue with and I'll try to find out if there are payment alternatives. Really wouldn't hurt to ask.

BTW: I'd like to make a couple of corrections regarding those networks I listed in the previous post.

-Response Concept is under the same company as Creative Clicks - only need to contact Response Concept for offers.
-Online Activity doesn't do sweeps anymore.




Amy

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Yup, I'm aware of most of the issues that FB/Adwords have, but I will need to get good of them so this is something I will need to do. And yes, we will be using those profits for those things :P

I really don't know why those networks don't accept my card. I have described this situation here already and nobody really knows why. My bank doesn't see any requests and looks like their card processors instantly reject my transaction. I have had same issue with Megapush, Richpush and Datspush. So I ended up using Paypal for Megapush and I'll talk with my new AM from Datspush how I could fund my account. Not sure about Richpush yet.

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So, I'm currently emptying all my traffic network accounts so I can start fresh once I'm back and yesterday I finally ran out of money, but the little test I did was successful.



I can't wait to get back to work I'm soo not used to vacations and stuff

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Alrighty! I'm finally back in the office. Just turned my campaigns on and it's time to make some money!

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Looking forward to your future results, keep us posted

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This is proof that you're passionate about what you do!

Welcome back and looking forward to the massive testing and progress you'll no doubt experience!




Amy

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Alrighty.. So I have been a bit busy. Unfortunately, some of my main offers died or were paused so I have been working on getting new offers up and running.
I don't have much else to show but I'm happy that August has been a profitable month (few days still to go). Nothing fancy tho. I'm still working on launching new offers and on my way to $1000 revenue per day.



As you can see, I didn't really run much traffic this month while I was on vacation. I still have a long way to go

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Welcome back!

No need to feel guilty that you took a well-deserved break!

But I know how you feel. Seldom a day goes by when I don't do any work at all - which is worse than when I still had a job back 15 years ago (and doing overtime all over the place). It's an "occupational hazard" of working from my laptop/phone - I never really feel like I deserve a day off. The flexibility can be a curse. Because we don't have set work hours, we may always feel like we should be working. We just need to remind ourselves to take a rest now and then.

Offers die all the time, but there will be new offers.



Amy

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I've fallen behind on my campaigns a bit too, I guess plenty of us do the same during the summer But september is usually a very good month... everyone kinda get's back into reality and traffic goes up too in general. The good thing is that you were able to hit some profits early on, and solid volume too. Now it's just about optimizing the campaigns a bit and you're gonna roll again.

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