Can someone still run whitehat and be profitable in AM today? (15)

Hello STMers,

I am a newbie and trying to work out where I can play in this affiliate game. But this is a question on my mind for a while and I thought I ask more experienced affiliates hopefully I get better clarity and direction.

Can someone (especially a newbie) still run whitehat and be profitable? In what verticals, offers and traffic sources can whitehat still work? It will be nice if I can have a reference of a newbie (then) who ran a whitehat profitably (would like to read the thread). From what I have read, it looks like running whitehat is already at a disadvantage as aggressive/blackhat campaigns have higher conversions than whitehat.

For example, I have heard/read of Facebook banning accounts and affiliates having to use multiple/different ones every time. I really would like to avoid that route if possible hence my question.

Thanks

Yes, don't let people tell that you can't run WH affiliate marketing.
Those that say that are either only doing BH themselves or they are too lazy to follow the advertising rules of each platform.

I waited far too long to do affiliate marketing just because of this question. I didn't want to get my accounts banned etc.

Want a good WH business running only affiliate offers. www.thepennyhoarder.com
There are others too.

Also i don't want to paint a bad picture on this forum, don't get me wrong
the info here is priceless and the people are so helpful, but understand
that many in here are true BH people or coming from a BH background.
Those are the ones struggling on FB for example because they still
push the envelope a bit too much with their copy, and how they advertise.

SO YES, you can run WH campaigns.

Ecom offers, lead gen etc.

Another thing that gets people banned all the time is how we advertise.
Let's face it, how does it look in FB eyes or a potential customers eyes
when they see a compelling ad, click on it and lands on a single page
advertorial with fake banners, and fake brand.
Of course that will get us banned sooner or later, and that got me banned too.

Build up a real brand that is suitable for a vertical that you want to smash
and show the platforms that you actually are a REAL business.
Blog with content etc.

Originally Posted by kinged

Yes, don't let people tell that you can't run WH affiliate marketing.
Those that say that are either only doing BH themselves or they are too lazy to follow the advertising rules of each platform.

I waited far too long to do affiliate marketing just because of this question. I didn't want to get my accounts banned etc.

Want a good WH business running only affiliate offers. www.thepennyhoarder.com
There are others too.

Also i don't want to paint a bad picture on this forum, don't get me wrong
the info here is priceless and the people are so helpful, but understand
that many in here are true BH people or coming from a BH background.
Those are the ones struggling on FB for example because they still
push the envelope a bit too much with their copy, and how they advertise.

SO YES, you can run WH campaigns.

Ecom offers, lead gen etc.

Another thing that gets people banned all the time is how we advertise.
Let's face it, how does it look in FB eyes or a potential customers eyes
when they see a compelling ad, click on it and lands on a single page
advertorial with fake banners, and fake brand.
Of course that will get us banned sooner or later, and that got me banned too.

Build up a real brand that is suitable for a vertical that you want to smash
and show the platforms that you actually are a REAL business.
Blog with content etc.

It's perfectly doable to make profits with the WH approach, no doubts about it

Kinged made some good points above.

And there is another thing to consider, every source and advertiser has different rules when it comes to what is blackhat and what is not.

I do a lot of adult dating for example, that's perfectly WH in the eyes of both the traffic sources and advertisers, no need to cloak anything there.
Push networks are fine with lot's of stuff that wouldn't fly on FB for example.

So in the end it's about knowing what you can run and where.

On top of that, all the major players are getting better at detecting BH stuff, so focusing on the white side should be also better for the future.

Originally Posted by lukeman

Hello STMers,

I am a newbie and trying to work out where I can play in this affiliate game. But this is a question on my mind for a while and I thought I ask more experienced affiliates hopefully I get better clarity and direction.

Can someone (especially a newbie) still run whitehat and be profitable? In what verticals, offers and traffic sources can whitehat still work? It will be nice if I can have a reference of a newbie (then) who ran a whitehat profitably (would like to read the thread). From what I have read, it looks like running whitehat is already at a disadvantage as aggressive/blackhat campaigns have higher conversions than whitehat.

For example, I have heard/read of Facebook banning accounts and affiliates having to use multiple/different ones every time. I really would like to avoid that route if possible hence my question.

Thanks

Several thoughts:

1)Definitely agree with everyone that it's VERY possible to make money running whitehat.

Affiliate marketing is like any other business.

In this world, there are businesses that make money either by selling products/services that don't actually provide value, and/or promote using deceiving/misleading sales tactics.

And then there are businesses that only sell products/services that they feel proud to stand behind, using advertising angles that empower their users.

And then there are businesses that fall somewhere between those two ends of the spectrum. And all across that spectrum there are thriving businesses.

Same goes for affiliate marketing.

There are shady CPA offers that are downright scams - there are just no way to promote them without using aggressive/misleading tactics.

And then there are many solid products and services that have affiliate programs, that we can promote using completely truthful advertising, because they are intrinsically great and have benefits we can craft into our sales copy.


2)Blackhat may win in the short term, but whitehat will prevail.

Of all the biggest businesses in the world, how many you know are making big money with deceptive practices?

Blackhat is like the hare in the race, whereas whitehat is like the turtle. We don't hear of many people making 5-6 figures/day after just weeks by promoting whitehat offers using whitehat methods. But for blackhat (either scammy products, or scammy billing practices such as automatic rebilling, or misleading promotion tactics like farticles), this kind of profits are not uncommon.

However, for blackhat, those profits may not last very long. Affiliate that are running blackhat are constantly having to figure out new ways to game the system. Government legislation, mobile carrier regulations, traffic network terms, even browsers are being refined/updated all the time to better-protect consumers/users. Seeing income drop back to zero in an instant is a real possibility (that can happen repeatedly), and it takes someone with a real strong heart to be able to withstand that kind of stress (plus a very good brain to figure out how to jump through new hoops all the time).

Whereas with whitehat, you can focus on testing offers and angles, and scaling. Profits have a good chance of growing steadily, with a lot less risk that you'd lose everything in a heartbeat.

With whitehat, you can grow and nurture your audience/customers, so that they will buy from/through you repeatedly and bring new customers by word-of-mouth. Not so with blackhat.

Also - and this to me is the most important thing of all: When you run whitehat, you can sleep better at night, knowing you're not projecting negativity into the world by misleading or outright scamming people. You can provide good information and advice while recommending a worthy product/service to the audience - that thepennyhoarder.com site (thanks @kinged !) is a great example.

And when you're selling products/services that are actually solid and useful, they will help to sell themselves.

In short, a whitehat business stands to grow into a big, legitimate asset over time, which can overtake short-term blackhat profits.


3)Don't let the fear of losing Facebook accounts deter you.

As @iAmAttila pointed out above, Facebook bans can happen even if you don't run blackhat.

I'm in no means suggesting that we be reckless. By all means be careful, and observe facebook's advertising terms.

I'm just saying that even if you DO get banned, it's not the end of the world, or your Facebook advertising endeavors.

You can always get new accounts - most people don't even use their advertising accounts. Ask your family and friends and they may help you out (be honest about what can happen to their account, from the start - I won't be held responsible for anyone getting disowned/unfriended as a result!)

There are also ways to rent or buy accounts. I'm not at liberty to talk about account sales, but do a search and/or ask around and you'll find plenty of resources. Just be aware that not all are trustworthy, so try to test out a service with low budget before investing more. (Disclaimer: STM does not encourage the practice of account sales/rentals. Please do so at your own discretion and risk.)



Just some food for thought - hope it helps!




Amy

Originally Posted by lukeman

Hello STMers,

I am a newbie and trying to work out where I can play in this affiliate game. But this is a question on my mind for a while and I thought I ask more experienced affiliates hopefully I get better clarity and direction.

Can someone (especially a newbie) still run whitehat and be profitable? In what verticals, offers and traffic sources can whitehat still work? It will be nice if I can have a reference of a newbie (then) who ran a whitehat profitably (would like to read the thread). From what I have read, it looks like running whitehat is already at a disadvantage as aggressive/blackhat campaigns have higher conversions than whitehat.

For example, I have heard/read of Facebook banning accounts and affiliates having to use multiple/different ones every time. I really would like to avoid that route if possible hence my question.

Thanks

Originally Posted by vortex

Several thoughts:

1)Definitely agree with everyone that it's VERY possible to make money running whitehat.

Affiliate marketing is like any other business.

In this world, there are businesses that make money either by selling products/services that don't actually provide value, and/or promote using deceiving/misleading sales tactics.

And then there are businesses that only sell products/services that they feel proud to stand behind, using advertising angles that empower their users.

And then there are businesses that fall somewhere between those two ends of the spectrum. And all across that spectrum there are thriving businesses.

Same goes for affiliate marketing.

There are shady CPA offers that are downright scams - there are just no way to promote them without using aggressive/misleading tactics.

And then there are many solid products and services that have affiliate programs, that we can promote using completely truthful advertising, because they are intrinsically great and have benefits we can craft into our sales copy.


2)Blackhat may win in the short term, but whitehat will prevail.

Of all the biggest businesses in the world, how many you know are making big money with deceptive practices?

Blackhat is like the hare in the race, whereas whitehat is like the turtle. We don't hear of many people making 5-6 figures/day after just weeks by promoting whitehat offers using whitehat methods. But for blackhat (either scammy products, or scammy billing practices such as automatic rebilling, or misleading promotion tactics like farticles), this kind of profits are not uncommon.

However, for blackhat, those profits may not last very long. Affiliate that are running blackhat are constantly having to figure out new ways to game the system. Government legislation, mobile carrier regulations, traffic network terms, even browsers are being refined/updated all the time to better-protect consumers/users. Seeing income drop back to zero in an instant is a real possibility (that can happen repeatedly), and it takes someone with a real strong heart to be able to withstand that kind of stress (plus a very good brain to figure out how to jump through new hoops all the time).

Whereas with whitehat, you can focus on testing offers and angles, and scaling. Profits have a good chance of growing steadily, with a lot less risk that you'd lose everything in a heartbeat.

With whitehat, you can grow and nurture your audience/customers, so that they will buy from/through you repeatedly and bring new customers by word-of-mouth. Not so with blackhat.

Also - and this to me is the most important thing of all: When you run whitehat, you can sleep better at night, knowing you're not projecting negativity into the world by misleading or outright scamming people. You can provide good information and advice while recommending a worthy product/service to the audience - that thepennyhoarder.com site (thanks @kinged !) is a great example.

And when you're selling products/services that are actually solid and useful, they will help to sell themselves.

In short, a whitehat business stands to grow into a big, legitimate asset over time, which can overtake short-term blackhat profits.


3)Don't let the fear of losing Facebook accounts deter you.

As @iAmAttila pointed out above, Facebook bans can happen even if you don't run blackhat.

I'm in no means suggesting that we be reckless. By all means be careful, and observe facebook's advertising terms.

I'm just saying that even if you DO get banned, it's not the end of the world, or your Facebook advertising endeavors.

You can always get new accounts - most people don't even use their advertising accounts. Ask your family and friends and they may help you out (be honest about what can happen to their account, from the start - I won't be held responsible for anyone getting disowned/unfriended as a result!)

There are also ways to rent or buy accounts. I'm not at liberty to talk about account sales, but do a search and/or ask around and you'll find plenty of resources. Just be aware that not all are trustworthy, so try to test out a service with low budget before investing more. (Disclaimer: STM does not encourage the practice of account sales/rentals. Please do so at your own discretion and risk.)



Just some food for thought - hope it helps!




Amy

Anyone have some good WH networks?

Originally Posted by matuloo

It's perfectly doable to make profits with the WH approach, no doubts about it

Kinged made some good points above.

And there is another thing to consider, every source and advertiser has different rules when it comes to what is blackhat and what is not.

I do a lot of adult dating for example, that's perfectly WH in the eyes of both the traffic sources and advertisers, no need to cloak anything there.
Push networks are fine with lot's of stuff that wouldn't fly on FB for example.

So in the end it's about knowing what you can run and where.

On top of that, all the major players are getting better at detecting BH stuff, so focusing on the white side should be also better for the future.

Originally Posted by bibanum007

What are push networks? Which affiliate network you suggest to start with dating ?

Originally Posted by mediabuyr

Anyone have some good WH networks?

Hello and welcome to STM! I am glad I am (finally) here!

I was about to introduce myself in the dedicated Introduce Yourself section but I decided first to read the Q and A section and came up to this thread.

Forgive me if this sounds silly, but can I ask what is the best way to start? What guide to follow?

Let me explain.

I am in affiliate marketing for some years now mostly building websites in male enhancement. I used to rank these in with SEO, but the game is getting harder daily (just try guest posting and you will see what I am saying).

So I want to learn paid traffic.

But I want to do it White Hat. BH is not for me for all reasons @vortex mentioned a few posts above. And I am quite fed up with all that dick stuff (try to explain to your wife, children and friends what you do for living and you will see what I am talking about).


It is not all about money. I know BIG money are in BH but this is not for me. I would rather try something small, white hat, I can give as a sample of inspiration to my friends and children.

So, where to start? I know I should pick up one traffic source and stick with it until I master it (or at least feel comfortable with it and make profit). And I need to choose one vertical and learn it.

I see there are several guides in the Newbie Section but which one would you think is best for somebody, who want to play it white hat and have some experience in affiliate marketing (can build websites, landers etc but knows nothing about paid traffic and tracking)?


One more thing - I see it is highly recommended to start with 2 or 3 tier countries as a newbie - well, I am from Bulgaria - should I try this first, or I should focus on other countries?

Thank you for your advice in advance!

Hello peweb2005

The whole BH vs WH topic comes down to one thing... there is not an universal border that sets WH apart from BH. What would be deemed blackhat by facebook for example, could run without problems on a PUSH network for example. So you have to set the border yourself, how far are you willing to go?

Do you want to sell real products with real value and make your customers happy? Or do you wanna respect the rules of the particular traffic network, but don't mind to push a bit more borderline products?

In case you really want to stay totally whitehat, you need to look at ecommerce and clean leadgen offers. If you're willing to enter the more grey territory, look at push traffic and sweeps, for example. And there are several areas in between.

In terms of what tutorial to follow, I still think Amy's 40-day tutorial is the perfect start for anyone who is not familiar with paid traffic and the required setup. I will take you through the process one step at a time and since the fundamentals of AM are pretty much the same regardless of the source or vertical, you can apply the knowledge to any area you decide to pursue.

You can also choose the path of building some product yourself, collect leads, build an email list, build an authority website around some subject you are familiar with ... and then use the AM skills to build your user base. The options are really quite broad.

And the GEO to start with: I've seen several offers for Bulgaria lately, so it might be a good start since your knowledge of the market and the language could be of great advantage. Just keep in mind the volumes will be limited, BG is not a huge geo. So eventually, you will have to try other countries too.

Hey I do.
We own some well converting e-com offers.

Add me on skype for more details: gabriela.lotto