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A kind of different follow along Mobile Sweep on POP where ALL data will be shared (41)

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Hey guys & gals

First, of a big thank you to all STM's for all kind advice.

So as said I haven't yet launched the campaign and everything I'll do is based on what you guys say so that others can go through it later and not least I can go over this over and over again for my future campaigns launch .


Now back to business,

I've decided to launch an antivirus campaign for ZA.

Offers:

• Connection: 3G
• OFFERS:
  
  • ClickDealer => Payout: $1.96 / Prelander +1 Click / Carriers: Vodacom, CellC, MTN
  • ClickDealer => Payout: $2.00 / 2 Clicks / Carriers: Vodacom, CellC, MTN
  • Advidi => Payout: $3.75 / 2 Clicks / Carriers: Vodacom, CellC, MTN
  • Advidi => Payout: $3.75 / 2 Clicks / Carriers: All Carriers

Why this offer:
I've ran ZA before with good success and asked my AMs if Antivirus is doing good and which Geo. They said yes and ZA (South Africa) for Geo + I saw each network had at least 2 ZA antivirus campaigns which makes it easier to split-test the offers.


Landers:

• 3 Landers

Where did I found the landers:
Adplexity. I searched for keyword Antivirus and saw a patter of landing pages. These landing pages were the most used based on 0-7 & 7-18 days. (I've changed some stuff on the landing page such as texts (made them much less), added outer alert which says: 1) Insert your phone number to confirm you are not an attacker, 2) STEPS TO REMOVE THE VIRUS: Step 1: Insert & Confirm your phone number Step 2: Download the Antivirus and to eliminate harmful trojans - Outer alert is basically what user sees after clicking on CTR button and are going to the offer page.)


PS: When it comes to traffic source I have already a Blacklist for ZA on PropellerAds and regarding the budget, I have no problem with $$. I also use Voluum for tracking and DigitalOceal for the server (it's pretty fast).


Hope anyone of you guy can come here and help to basically start the campaign from 0 to 100 . And how I'll do it is every step of the way I'll ask some questions regarding what Im stock on and hopefully someone will answer and I know what to do next,



Reason I wrote this was because I've read threads (which many were good), but I still haven't found a follow along where it starts from only having offers and landers and the rest needs to be decided and I think this would bring some light for us newbies that doesn't know what to test, for how long, testing budgets etc, Basically from start to finish. Because on others I feel they are middle of the way and we don't know exactly why they took each step


I look forward to this follow along and hope we get enough responses to run this bad boy

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Such aggressive landers won't survive the Chrome's update I believe, unless you're heavily cloaking, but don't think it's even possible after February 15, someone may chime in and shed some light on this.

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Good point I didn't know Chrome update would effect landing pages. I thought it was mainly Ads (banner, native). What type of lander do you suggest @jasonc?

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Maybe I better start with a question.

What testing budget should I have for this campaign and what to start testing first?

I got a mail from Charles where he mentioned testing each element/part (LP, offer, carriers, browsers etc) for itself and by that he meant, for instance: test offers first for x-days & when you found a winner offer, then move on to LPs etc. (Charles correct me if I'm wrong )


Should I test offers first or landing pages?

IF OFFER:
When testing offers (I have 4 offers), how much $ should I spend on each offer before cutting them out & should I test my 4 offers with all 3 landing pages I have OR test 4 offers with only 1 landing page and when I have a "winner" offer, I add other 2 landing pages to the rotation (If so which landing page should I go with first & I would appreciate if you could explain why)?


IF LANDERS:
When testing landing pages (in this case 3), how much $ should I spend on each landing page before cutting them out and when I'm testing landing pages, should I test all my 3 landing pages with all 4 offers I have OR test 3 landing pages with only 1 offer and when I have a "winner" landing page, I add other 3 offers to the rotation (If so which offer should I go with first & I would appreciate if you could explain why)?



Thanks in advanced!

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Hello again

You started the thread on weekend, that's why the replies are coming in slowly, it will pick up, don't worry about it.

jasonc is right with the LPs, they are to aggressive to run and most traffic sources will reject them ... most would reject them prior to the google changes already and more will make their rules strict now. The problem is, google can penalize sites for linking to misleading content, so the networks have to protect their publishers in some way. If you want to run such aggressive stuff, you will need to cloak.

A friendly note, you will get more replies when asking direct questions, it's very time consuming to guide someone by hand, and most people don't have the time or will to do that ... clearly formulated questions will get replies much faster. So let's take a look at those you asked

The key thing to realize here is that you need to narrow down both the right offer and LP ... plus traffic source/placements. You need to start somewhere and then handle it one by one. I would recommend to start with the offers, because even a mediocre LP will get you some conversions, but a dead offer won't convert even with the best LP in the world.

The problem, when starting out, is that you don't know if you have a good offer and you don't know if you have a good LP. After some time, you will collect a set of proven LPs and it will be easier to test stuff. But right now, you simply have to throw money at it and see if something sticks. Consider this as an investment into your education.

Technically, you could simply start with 1 LP only and mass test offers with it .. to find a couple that are converting on an ongoing basis, not just one random conversion. Then again, if you happen to hit a really bad LP, it will be hard to convert. So either start with 2 LPs or switch to another one if the conversions just won't start.

As for the budget, it's usually good to use multiples of the offer payout. If after 2-3x of the payout spent on traffic you didn't get a conversion, there is a problem somewhere. If you see conversions on some offers and other don't convert with the same amount of traffic, you know what to cut.

In case nothing converts and you've already spent the amount I mentioned, you need to look at the other parts of the funnel ... LPs, placements, bid levels ...

The first goal to set, is to start getting multiple conversions per day, so you can start tweaking other parts of the funnel.

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As always great stuff @matuloo. I always appreciate your help


As you mentioned I'll start with offers and for a landing page I found a landing page on adplexity by searching for keyword, days 20-30 and ZA and found one landing page that is used all over the place. So I go for that (unless you think it's not a good idea )

Btw I completely forgot to mention about carriers. I know different offers, converts differently on each carrier and in this case for ZA I have 3 carriers: Vodacom, MTN, CellC. Since we are just testing offer on phase one, should I go for all carriers when buying traffic or choose only one carrier and go with that?

If you have any suggestions about which carrier I should start with, I would appreciate it very much


Appreciate all your great suggestion @Matuloo(Matej)

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You're welcome

You can certainly start with it, and the data will tell you whether its a good one or not ... keep in mind that people rip stuff from each other so even bad performing landers are to be found in adplexity or any other spytool. I always like to refer to spytools as a source of inspiration and not a one stop shop for creatives But it's definitely MUCH better to start with a ripped LP than trying to reinvent the wheel.

Depends on the offer, some take multiple carriers, some just one ... you need to check the offer description or consult your AM. You can target all of them, in case that the offers accepts it, or limit yourself to just some of them in order to decrease the ad spend a bit. I would recommend to target carriers separately though, the bids arr usually different for each of them.

I'm afraid it's not possible to advice here, try to ask your AM though, they should see the performance based on carriers too.

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Thanks a lot @matluloo

Yeah, I usually use adplexity mainly for text (copywrite) & inspiration and since I'm programmer my self, I make my own landers with those inspirations. In this case, I just wanted to start with a landing page when testing offers

I checked and all offers accept Vodacom, MTN, CellC but I was looking for which I would start with and especially when AM said all carriers did almost same.

BUT (and please don't think I'm slow) Just wanna make sure I get it right since I'm building my own launching strategy.

So for phase 1, only testing offers and since as you mentioned its better to test landers, carriers for themselves. I have this set up for phase 1 and I would appreciate if you could let me know if I'm right or not and what changes I should add to make it better.


PHASE 1 - CAMPAIGN SET UP (testing offers only):

- Offers: 4 offers with weight 25%
- Landers: 1 landing page
- Carrier: ONLY WIFI traffic (since later on will add carriers in (if you recommend) BUT I got a problem with some offers since only 2 of them accept wifi so not sure what to do here and I would appreciate any advice)
- Traffc source: PropellerAds - SmartCPM
- Bid: $5 - to get some good quality sites as well (usually CPM ends up at $1 - $1.50)
- Blacklist: Starting the campaign with a list of 28 zones/placements that are not good (which I got from one of my contacts)


Thanks in advanced!


btw I subscribed to your mailing list on your website and looking forward for your emails

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A detailed follow-along is always welcomed by the community! Thanks for doing this for the benefit of all.

Matuloo has already given great pointers. Here are some from me - which may or may not overlap with his. Everyone optimizes their camps differently - I only aim to provide another perspective/approach. Feel free to mix and match different approaches to see what will work the best for you.

-Regarding testing lander and offers: In the beginning you're faced with this catch-22 situation where you have neither proven offers nor landers. To get around this I normally suggest to take a few AM-recommended offers (and/or offers that have received large traffic volumes based on Adplexity stats etc.), then rip 5-10 of the most popular landers on Adplexity (again, highest-trafficked). Then throw everything into a test camp with average bid (to avoid junk traffic while keeping costs low'ish at the same time), wait until one of the offers has made 2 conversions without too much spend, then use that one offer to cut landers down to a winner. Thus you'd be identifying an offer that converts well enough to not burn a hole in your pocket while helping you to identify the best lander. (If none of the offers convert even semi-well, either test another batch of offers, or test another geo/carrier.) Once you have a good lander, test more offers (and also retest the offers that were paused from before).

For a more-detailed description of the methodology please see here:

https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...844#post334844

And here:

https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...845#post334845

-Creating exit pops to inform the visitor on what actions to take on the next page is a great tactic I've used successfully in the past.

-I've written about AV and how aggressive to get, in this post here - may be worth a read:

https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...l=1#post336692

-It's good practice to target wifi and each carrier in separate campaigns - you'd be able to bid more appropriately for each carrier vs. wifi.

-Since you're targeting wifi traffic - have you incorporate Caurmen's bot script into your landers? It will help you to weed out bot-infested placements - this will save you money especially for something like ZA that has huge traffic and a ton of placements.

https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...live-campaigns

-I won't object to your $5 bid because ZA mobile traffic tends to be expensive.

-ZA carriers Vodacom and MTN big carriers that have big traffic volume, but if I remember correctly, PropellerAds doesn't have nearly as much volume as their estimator is showing (at least that was the case when I was running there a few months back). Try Zeropark - but be prepared to invest into cutting a considerable number of placements in order to make your campaign profitable. Good thing is that due to the big volume, you'll be able to cut aggressively and STILL have enough traffic in the end to profit from. Once you've invested into cutting placements, you can run future camps on this traffic network + geo + carrier again and again. But the first time will cost you (which is why I wouldn't normally recommend ZA carrier to newbies - but if you have the budget, then go for it!)

-Regarding the google chrome ad-blocker update: It won't be clear what the impact will be until it's rolled out (in 3 days). But here's a sneak-peek:

https://www.ctrl.blog/entry/chrome-adblocker

Until then, everything anyone says will be speculation. Guess we'll find out in 3 days what the impact will be!




Looking forward to seeing some stats soon!



Amy

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Forget about WIFI traffic, at least in case that we are talking about a Carrier Billing offer (PIN Submit)... is it one of those offers? They have more complicated flows on wifi and it's virtually impossible to make that work these days.

If you don't want to start with all carriers at once, just pick one. 3G traffic is usually available in smaller amounts, but anyways, you probably don't want to spend too much at this point, so pick one.

Not sure about the bid, I would start lower. As Amy mentioned in her reply, ZA tends to be more expensive, but still ... start lower to see whether there is some volume available at that price, you can always increase it.

BTW: Amy mentioned a different approach, starting by sorting out LPs first ... it's a viable strategy too, you have to sort both the LPs and Offers, and sometimes it doesn't matter much which one you start with.

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Thanks a lot Amy!

Thanks a lot To Amy & @Matuloo for all great advice .


So to summarize, I've previously ran multiple offers with multiple landing pages and it worked on some and didn't on some others. This time I was thinking to take another approach to see which one works better (at least for me).

The reason I decided this, is as a newbie many times I was confused about why a conversion happened, was is because of the landing page was good or was it because the offer was good or was it a random conversion. But I'm sure we newbies will one day be able to eyeball them and decide if they work or not.


So this is the plan based on great advices from Amy & @Matuloo.

Phase ONE: Finding winner offer:

Offers: 5 offers (user-flow: 3 of them 2click & 2 of them 1click)
Payout: averages at $3
Landing page: 1 Google theme landing page (Reason: So I can eliminate everything else that might have effect on conversions and just focus on offers)
Carrier: 3G - Only Vodacom/Vodafone (Reason: As mentioned want to only focus on offers so I remove every other element that can effect conversion + 3 of the offers performed better on Vodacom/Vodafone (asked my AM))
Traffic source: PropellerAds (If I get approved - They said it would be fine to run antivirus campaigns but haven't yet seen the landing page). (Reason: I already have a blacklist and know the traffic source more than others. It's kind of my go-to traffic source for initial testing)
Traffic type: Pop traffic
Bid: $3
Bid-type: SmartCPM


Please let me know if I can do any improvements on the plan

BTW as mentioned I'll share ALL the data I have everyday and been thinking to do this on Google Sheet so anybody can access and look at the data at any giving time to learn from it or hopefully give advice to improve things

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The plan is good enough to start with, don't ask for permission to use it ... the data will tell you if it was a good decision or not. Don't get to distracted with trying to make everything perfect from the start, you need to start running and watch the data. Many things will become clear as soon as you start running traffic

Looking forward to your results.

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Noted

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- Update


As it was mentioned before, my landing page got rejected (even though it was same landing page I found on Adplexity that is running on their platform lol) on PropellerAds (Reason: Your creatives should not contain the words like “your sofware is outdated”, “your device is infected”, “viruses found” etc. No misleading ads, providing false info to the user)

The reason I decided to run with PropellerAds for the initial test was as mentioned I already got a Blacklist for ZA and they are a great network for me. BUT I know I can run it on popads with no issue. But I'll change my landing page according to Propellerads rules and get approved and run the campaign and see if it does any good.

Amy - I want to start with 3G and I was wondering if this plugin would help with 3G as well?


Thanks in Advanced

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Propeller has VIP advertisers that they set more lenient rules for - advertisers that have spent a lot of money with them or otherwise have a good relationship with them.

Before you get to that stage - running less-aggressive landers would be wise. Here are some tips from mrbraun on the topic:

https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...on-pop-traffic


There's a lot less bot traffic in 3G traffic compared to wifi, but the percentages are increasing over time - so it MAY still be worth it to run a bot check on 3G traffic too - especially since it doesn't require extra money or has any detrimental effects on conversion rate. All it takes is the extra effort.

However - that's ONLY if you're planning to use landing pages. I wouldn't recommend to use that script for direct-linking. Here's what Zeno had to say about this when we had a convo on slack regarding using the bot script for DL:




Amy

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True about the bot test, it slows down the redirection, but still ... I had good results with it even with no delay. I wasn't expecting it, but large part of the bots are so STUPID that they aren't even capable of parsing a simple java script redirect, so they "hang" on the LP As for the more advanced bots, zeno is right of course, it would require a way longer on-page time to properly test some bot traps for example.

I had a chat with a friend who does a lot of mobile offers on the advertisers side, he told me the % of BOTs in 3G went up a LOT... so I'm afraid even this space has to be properly tested now

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Thanks a lot to Amy And Matuloo

I working on a less-aggresive landing page now to run it on PropellerAds. But I had a question regarding Bot-detection.

I took a look at the code from JS bot-detection and it looks good and I really think having a bot-detection is worth it and would save time and money. I know JS bot-detection based on either the browser has JS able or not would require some loading time, SOOO (as you as Im a programmer) I built my own bot-detection on platform I built for Affiliate marketing (internal use for me ).


So basically it happens in back-end so no loading time and its based on User-agent and knows bots, spiders, crawlers and some secret souces. I have now live for testing. But I was wondering, what you guys think about way of detection that I do based on known bots, spiders, crawlers and user-agent?

Thanks in advanced!

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This is a question caurmen would probably be able to answer so much better - because quite frankly, I haven't studied this area. The best I can do is quote what he said in one of his posts:


(Reference: https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...s-what-I-found)

I admire the fact that you have the knowledge to develop a bot trapper in-house! It sounds like by adding more and more knows bots, spiders, crawlers etc. you may be able to achieve better than the 80% success rate caurmen's test would, but it may take a lot more effort to get from 80% to 100% (would only be my guess). The 80/20 rule comes to mind (coincidentally, this is a situation where there's literally a 80/20 split - awesome!)

Regarding the delay - assuming you're using a lander, the delay will very unlikely impact on conversion rates because it will take visitors time to read the lander anyways. The delay will only cause problems when you're trying to use it with a direct-linking setup - when the visitor won't get redirected to the offer until (and only if) the javascript is parsed.




Amy

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Thanks, Amy. Yeah being able to detect 100% would almost be impossible because there are many bots that you would never know about to add them to the list. At the same time as a programmer, I know how you can program bots that don't seem like a bot. I call them "automaters", which basically will use my device/computer for instance to take some actions that I've decided myself. You'll never be able to catch them because if you look at the data they look like a normal user. So by using a "automater" and user-agent & IP changer you get yourself a great bot

- UPDATE

I came to the conclusion that in order to run a successful or semi-successful Antivirus offer, the Landing page would need to be aggressive and as mentioned & known from before Popads allows almost all sort of aggressive landers. So now I've submitted my lander to Popads and will run it as soon as it's approved.

I know I decided to run with PropellerAds since I had already a blacklist which helps a lot when starting a campaign but with my own new-developed bot-detector hopefully, I'm able to find placements with bots and remove them from the campaigns as soon as I have some data.


I have a question regarding Bots & Placements and would appreciate any help
I know all websites have bot-traffic and many it's not because site owner added it, but that how bots work and I've experienced it myself before many times on my own websites where I did not add any bot but still had bot-traffic out-going from my sites.

So my question how many bots from a placement are too many bots? By that I mean when should I blacklist a website because they have bot-traffic (after how many visits & what percentage/how many bots?)


Fine Setup:
Offers: 4 Offers W/Weight 25% on each
Landing page: 1 Lander (Aggresive & Vodacom theme)
Connection: Only 3G
Carrier: Only Vodafone
OS: Only Android

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This is a hard call, since quite often the prices reflect the % of BOTs, so it's possible to run profitable campaigns even on heavy bot-poluted placements, if you bid low enough. On the other hand, bot clicks are becoming part of the traffic distribution to your campaigns and the tracker doesn't differentiate between a real and a bot click... so under certain circumstances, the optimization will become impossible due to this. For example, some offers might receive BOT traffic only (or high %), and you will cut them based on the poor results ... when in reality, they had no chance to convert since all traffic that reached them was bots.

So you need to draw the line somewhere, personally I never work with anything above 80% bots, or even 70%... I pause that immediately. The rest, I usually give a try, to see if it can convert a bit. Depends on the traffic type and source too.

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Interesting!

That definitely sounds like the 80/20 rules applies more than ever then.


That's a very accurate observation.

In order to run AV successfully, you'd need to either cloak, or be able to find lots of traffic networks that are super lenient in approving aggressive landers.

Since you're not cloaking, I'd encourage you to seek out more traffic networks that are less-known. Here's a rough process:

https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...l=1#post317559


That's a very interesting bit of information! I wonder where that bot traffic is coming from, and what is motivating people from generating it for another site...do you have any insight on that?

Well - bots usually do not generate conversions (and those that are programmed to convert, are worse - because they can't be monetized so sooner or later you'd get into trouble with the aff network or advertiser for generating bad-quality leads).

And the problem is you'd be paying the same money for bot traffic as you would for human traffic.

So we're talking about the loss of value in what you're buying.

However - the bot percentage shouldn't be the only criterion. I've seen many placements with 50-60% bot traffic that turned out to be profitable. So I would set the cut-off percentage at 70% usually, or if I want to cut more aggressively due to there being large numbers of placements zapping the budget I'd set it at 50% or 60%.




Amy

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Thanks @Amy

I mean, when it comes to bots you can categorize them into 3 main categories (as I call them). Worker bots & Scraping bots & Traffic bots.

Worker bots are a good kind of bots, you usually see them being used by uptime services to check if your site is up or down & other websites such as isitdownrightnow.com to basically give info to their users (not sure if isitdownrightnow.com is using bots but for being big they kind of need to lol).

Scraping bots are kind of bots that visit different sites and based on some credentials decides either to scrape the page or not. For instance, it can check its Views, Social shares, amount of content and if it was good, it scrapes it and then it can be added to your own sites for promoting and earning fast-cash. You usually see them on the auto-blog type sites.

Traffic bots are bots that visits sites for different reasons. It can be for getting info from sites, messing around with your competitors, sending traffic to sites with your referral so the webmaster can see AHHHH! I got 10.000 visits from site X,Y & Z, they should be good to buy traffic from or even you contact them and say hello, we sent some sample traffic to you these last days do you wanna buy more, Or even bots that are just on for being on and just surfing the net LOL.

And one thing you hear all over the net is that YO, when you set up a website, add your link to as many link directories as you can BUT I've tested that sec I added my links to these directories I got hit by a buss of bots LOL. They are Bot-farms haha.


You can't almost never get rid of them but you can minimize them with IP range, remove your pages from link directories and other stuff. With my in-house bot detection, every 1 min I got hit by 5 different IPs and I wondered where these came from and I traced them back and found out they were Worker bots for Uptime checking.

Hope it gives some insight

Btw Amy, You've been great help to me, if there is anything you need help with regarding prorgamming let me know. Don't need to do anything for me, you already are great help

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- UPDATE

My landing page got approved on PropellerAds. I started the campaign with 28 blacklist placements, SmartCPM & $3 bid - Averages at $1.47. But I got a situation here.

I know its too soon to determine anything but I just want to know if you know if there is anything I can do for now.


Stats are now:
3095 Visits, 506 clicks, $4.57 Cost & 16.35% CTR

As you know I have 4 different offers from 4 different advertisers & 4 different networks and only one landing page, but what catches my eye is good amount of clicks but no conversion.

I already started the campaign with 28 blacklists and my bot-detection haven't registered any noticeable amount of bots.

What could the reason be and is there is anything I can do now?

PS: Let me know if you want any additional data. As you know I'll be transparent and provide all data.


Appreciate any help

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I'm afraid it's to soon to look for any reasons. 506 clicks distributed over 4 different offers isn't all that much yet, it's normal to see 0 conversions after 200 or so clicks with a non-optimized campaign.

Not saying there isn't a problem somewhere, but it's too early to freak out just yet

How did you chose the LP you are using, is it one that converted for you before or is it sort of a "blind pick" ?

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Thanks for this interesting information!

This really takes me back to my SEO days. There was a time when automated link-building (*cough* spamming *cough*) was working well in ranking sites, and I bought all kinds of software and made them work seamlessly with one another to turn it into a giant link-building machine (fun times). So I'm no stranger to the 3 types of bots. The extra insight from you is interesting nonetheless! Thanks for taking the time.

You really have a gift for explaining things - you would make a great teacher down the road and do coaching etc.


You're more than welcome! Helping on the forums is my job and is something I enjoy doing. But if I'm really stuck on something, I'll know who to hit up - thanks for your offer!


Like matuloo already suggested - it's WAY too early to decide anything.

I'm not sure what your offer payouts are, but even assuming they're $0.50 (i.e. really low), the camp has only spent less than 10x payout in total - and that cost is spread across 4 offers.

And at this low spend, placements probably haven't reached enough spend to be cut yet either.

I'm still not entirely sure that using a single landing page is a good idea - I like to include several to be sure I have at least one that's in good working order and is a decent converter. As things stand now, if you don't get conversions, you wouldn't know whether it's because your offers are duds, or if it's the lander that has trouble converting.

But we shall see what happens! Please run until you've spent at least $20, then report some stats (offers > landers mainly; also, if you see any big placements that seems to be zapping excessive money without converting, you can cut them now and retest them later after you've found a good offer and lander).




Amy

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Thanks a bunch your reply @Matuloo & Amy. I can see your point and Im determine to run this campaign until we get to next phases, but we got a issue. PropellerAds first approved the landing page after 1 day it rejected it because of some wording. I contacted My AM and she couldn't get it approved.


So Im kind of stuck. I know you can run it on PopAds, but CPM there was REALLY hight for ZA. When I ran it on PropellerAds, which average CPM of $1.5 I got a good bunch of traffic for initial testings (at least 15-20k daily), but when I ran it on PopAds even with CPM of $3 I still got really few impressions and CPM had to be AT LEAST $10 so I get 6k traffic.


As said I'm determine to run this campaign and esecially for the case of the post, I feel its just waste of time if I abbondan the campaign.

So I was wondering what I could do or you guys have any suggestion (I know on PropellerAds I can't run antivirus with an aggressive landing page, which antivirus landers need to be in order to work, but I've ran other campaigns such as vouchers, even CC with success on PropellerAds)

@Matuloo: Its one that I got from someone that has already worked with this landing page and has converted well for him



Haha Thanks Amy

Amy, I've ran with multiple landing pages & offers at the same time before and I just want to take another approach to basically create my own launching strategy. But when Ran with multiple landers and offer at the same time I was almost always stuck at: OK was it the landing page that was good or was it the offer and sometime when I had the winner landinge page and tested that against multiple offers, it didn't work. So Im trying to see which one works best for me.

Amy: Payout averages at $3 for all offers

Those days were golden years where you could always test and find something that works haha Good old days


Appreciate all your help!

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If you can't get this LP running on propeller and popads doesn't have the volume ... you can either try to look for more volume at other sources and use your current LP or try to come up with a different LP that would be acceptable for propeller too.

On a side note, it's not mandatory to stick to one vertical forever, sometimes you simply have to switch to find something that suits you better.

On a side note #2 - With $3 average offer payout and less than $5 spent, it's really VERY early to drive ANY conclusions

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Thanks a bunch @matuloo

I mean one of the main reason I've been tryning to get AV offers going, was because of this post so that we can continue.

But I read this post https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...on-POP-traffic and many of stuff makes sens and wordings were fine with PropellerAds.

So as suggested on one of @mrbraun posts, its best to stay on good side on traffic source, especially when I already have a good relationship with my account manager. So I sent my account Manager my new landers (same design but some wording change) and they got approved. I can see they are still (some kind of) aggressive but the wording makes it so it got approved. So instead of me saying: You phone has virus , I could say: Your phone MIGHT have virus.


100% agree with you


Thanks alot for your help @matuloo

- UPDATE
Campaign got approved by PropellerAds and start getting traffic

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PropellerAds has quality traffic - no doubt about that.

But they ARE very strict on compliance.

I understand why you're unwilling to let go of wanting to run AV there - and trust me, quite a few other affiliates are wanting to do the same, and for the same reason (that the traffic converts!)

And there ARE people running AV on there - and every single one I know, is cloaking.

If you're not wanting to cloak, and still run AV there, you'd basically need to run white landers - which I'm really not sure is a good idea.

However, if you're adamant about giving it a try, here would be my best advice:

1)Try to change one thing at a time, and only if your Propeller rep insists on the change. Change what you absolutely have to, then resubmit. Don't make everything super-compliant before resubmitting.

Basically try to see what you can get away with, to make the lander borderline-compliant.

2)Do this for at least several landers. You definitely won't want to just try one lander. You're attempting something difficult here, and will need as much room for optimization as you can get. Test at LEAST 5-10 landers.

3)After you have a winner, be prepared to test a TON of offers. Because you're "disadvantaged" by the compliant landers, you'd need to find an offer that converts especially well, so that in spite of this "disadvantage", you'd still end up with profits.

Oh and also try PopCash. They're not as strict as Propeller is, as far as I remember. Better, test less-known pop sources. You may not get a ton of volume, but the lower competition and possibly less-strict compliance requirements may be worth the effort. And camps may stay alive for longer due to there being less volatility.

Yup got that! It's good to test things. But the logic here is a bit screwy: If, when you were running several landers, you were STILL having such doubts in your head, then wouldn't running just one lander cause even more doubt?


Ah OK! Then the spend of $4+ was only the equivalent of just over 1x payout - which definitely was too early to tell anything.


Very nice! I admire you for trying something difficult, and will keep my fingers crossed for you.

Worse comes to worst, it would still be a very valuable learning experience.



Amy

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Thanks for great tips, Amy!

I know many other are cloaking but when I look at the prices, they are too high for me that at the phase Im running more sweepstakes, pin-submits and I feel it would cost me more then it would bring in. But what cloaking platforms do you or your friends recommend so maybe I can take a look at them.

Yeah, this has been my strategy, change small thing and rather to bomb them with an aggressive lander, I ask them once at a time about small things haha


At the moment I do but mre I look into it, it looks like different vertical need different approach, which is great to know. Im going to add some more landers to keep it 7-10. But I got a question. On (2) you say test with at least 7-10 landers and on (3) you said after finding winning lander, test a TON of offers. So my question is: at this point I have already 4 different offers. Do you mean I should run 7-10 landers + 4 offers or 7-10 landers and only 1 offer?

Thanks


Yeah I maninly look at this as learning experience and if it becomes profitable, it would be a plus haha


Amy & @matuloo, in attachment I have my 2 landers, could you please take a look at texts & design, and if you could give me some pointers for what I could improve so that I can apply that to new landers, would be great

PS: These can be approved on PropellerAds

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Didn't run antivirus for a while myself, but the LPs look quite "mild" to me, AV is a vertical that really requires aggressive approach in order to become profitable ... but let's see what your results are after a few K's of traffic

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Being a mod I'm not at the liberty to talk too much about cloaking, as we have a great relationship with traffic networks and aff networks. But there are threads where people have recommended cloaking tools. This for example:

https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...ne-is-the-best

And before you decide to cloak, DO be aware of the risks of getting your accounts banned (traffic network / aff network) and commissions forfeited, or worse. I'm neither for nor against cloaking, but want for you to know what you're getting yourself into before making a decision.


Basically the goal is to find the best offer and lander.

Rule: You can use only 1 lander if you want to test a bunch of offers and cut down to a winner. Same with offers: You can only use 1 offer if you want to test a bunch of landers and cut down to a winner.

So you'd need to test either landers first or offers first. I usually suggest to test landers first, because there are usually only a few popular lander designs/angles running at any point in time - you can see this on Adplexity.

But in order to test landers you'd need an offer that converts semi-well or better - the better the offer converts, the less money you'd spend on identifying the best lander.

Therefore, I suggest to include SEVERAL (e.g. 3-5) AM-recommended offers when testing landers. This way, the chances of at least one of the offers being a semi-good one would be higher (than if you were to just use 1 offer).

Run those offers and the 5-10 landers until you see an offer make 2 conversions without spending a ton of money, then use JUST that offer to cut landers.

If none of those offers convert well, replace with a new batch and repeat. Or, test another geo.

Once you have a winning lander, use it to test more offers.

For details please see the 40-day newbie tutorial, or ask further questions here.


I'm quite impressed with these landers as far as compliant ones go - they contain some really great elements. But I remember Propeller doesn't approve of logos and trademarks?

The only suggestion I have is try to make the headline bigger so that it stands out more. Also, try to make the text more concise - people don't have the patience to read lots of text.

And try to add a word in the beginning of the header to instill a sense of urgency (if you can get it approved), such as "Attention" or "Important". I know they probably won't allow "Warning".

Also test a version with black background - makes landers look more menacing, and red on black stands out more than red on white for some reason.

Oh and another tip: Try to make your lander look like a phone system message. Going overboard with this probably won't fly with Propeller. The key word here is "try".



Amy

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Thanks a lot for all the tips Amy & @matuloo


So I stopped the campaign so that I can build the new landers first (because propellerads have good volum haha). But an update would be that, after changing to newly approved landers, CTR didn't drop that much and I still have good CTR.

Below you can see the stats for yesterday, 27th Feb/2018.

(PS: Its 2 images in attachments. One of them is long so you might not notice it that much haha)

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The problem is, CTR is not making you money, CVR is ... so that's what will be crucial in this case.

Anyways, looking forward to your results with new landers.

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That's a VERY good sign!

As matuloo pointed out - let's hope the CR will keep up!

Keeping fingers crossed for you - you're a real trail-blazer!



Amy

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Thanks, @Matuloo, You are 100% right, hopefully, CR will take up


Thanks, a lot Amy, hope it will give some conversions so we can move forward to the next phase. I'll continue until you guys say, NAVID STOP, THIS WILL NOT WORK hahaha


Btw Amy, it took me a good Google search, to (maybe) understand what trail-blazer! means LOL

- UPDATE
So, as it was mentioned by Amy I should start with more landers and test several landers at the same time I test several offers and cut landers down. I built 6 landing pages where it was approved by PropellerAds BUT I needed to be creative and learn a bit more about their roles so I can keep the landers aggressive but keep them based on their policy.


I created 6 new landing pages that I mean are creative hahaha (But data will show). ShoutOut to Amy for great pointers which I applied to all landers.

- New Setup for campaign re-start
Carrier, OS, Browsers: Same as before
Landers: 6 landers
Offers: 4 like before


I'll re-start the campaign first thing in the morning with the new set up!

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- So a quick update

I just tok a look at the stats for last days with the campaign.

Cost: $31.85
Visits: 17,561
Clicks: 3,152
CTR: approx 18%
Conversion: BEATIFULL NUMBER OF ZEROOOO LOL


Some current campaign details:
Offers: 4
Carrier: 1 (Vodacom)
Landing Pages: 6
Traffic type: Pop
Traffic source: PropellerAds
Blacklists: 34 placements/websites (Some I had them from before and added only 4 more based on this campaign)
Offer Payout: Average $3


Below I've a screenshot of the whole range since I started this campaign:



Here is also a screenshot from Voluum for stats of my new pre-landers that I added today:




Let me know what you guys think & let me know what you would do at this point

Appreciate all tips

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You're most likely pushing poor offers or the LPs are poor. I assume you did some bot test and analyzed the placements for any heavy budget drainers ... so if it's evenly distributed traffic across many placements, I'd say the campaign has no chance as it is. You need to do HEAVY changes in order to continue ... maybe even switch verticals, I'm afraid the AV vertical won't work without the most aggressive methods.

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Thanks @Matuloo

Yes, I've done that already

I've managed to make the lander pretty aggressive and actually more aggressive the ones that I've seen on Adplexity. As I understood, texts are the element PropellerAds cared about so I managed to create some aggressive landers by doing some creative stuff and adding some elements.

- Update

Yeeeey, One of the offers made a conversion The offer that made the conversion has, Cost: $9.74 so far

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That's cool, now let's see if it was a random one, or there are more to come.

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- UPDATE

As mentioned by @Matuloo, I don't think the AV would convert and I think that conversion was a randome one. Campaign has used around 20x of the payout with only one conversion. BUT I learned sooo mcuh and all thanks to Amy & @Matuloo


What do you think Amy? Shall I continue with the AV campaign?


On another note, @Matuloo mentioned something about trying a new vertical or geo. and I have some questions about that which I hope I could get some answers for:

1) Should I try other AV offers from another Geo? (I'm not only doing AV, it's just for learning)
2) Should I try another vertical? IF so I would appreciate if you give me some pointers regarding which type of vertical/offer & offer
3) IF staring new offer, shall I continue on this same post for the follow-along?


Amy & @Matuloo if you want to take a look at my landing pages to see if they could work with AV I could send the links to you in PM


Thanks in Advanced!

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