Networks Why Do you Give Such Horrible Advice to Your Aff's? (50)
Networks Why Do you Give Such Horrible Advice to Your Aff's?
I just have to say that I find the fact of networks who give out absolute horrible advice in the name of volume perplexing....
Why tell someone to do something that you know can't be done or puts the aff at risk of loosing an account or chasing some offer on some traffic source you know they wont get profitable? with no real risk presented to them?
How does this back out for you?
Are affs just like moths to a light and the more shit you talk the more affs you lure in?
Its such a fucking disservice to yourself and your network when you do these things....
Its like your goal is to prey on people who don't know any better.
Is that what this biz has become?
Why not build solid relationships with pubs? Does this model not work anymore?
I am at a loss.....I can't figure it out.....but fuck I wish you'd stop doing it.....
discuss
sad but true..unfortunally many networks prefer to make a quick buck of their affiliates rather than building a long term relationship. Unfortunally many newbs believe that shit and think they can get rich quick by following these "advices". But there are still some good AM's/networks out there that don't push stupid offers/advice just to make a quick buck. But it's the minority..sometimes i have the feeling it's more about getting as much affiliates into the networks as possible instead of getting quality/high volume affs..
EWA has had this business model for as long as I can remember.
I think its a scattergun approach to lure in affiliates who may send a bunch of traffic and get a few conversions before finding its impossible to make the offers pay. If the networks make enough noise and lure enough affiliates then their own figures are going to look so much better.
If they are new affiliates lured by the promise of instant riches then in all likelihood the network wont even have to pay commission as the affiliates will have gone broke before getting to payout qualification. You do this to enough people and it can suddenly look very profitable.
As well as this its all part of the "Billy Big Balls" mentality to create the illusion that whatever offer or traffic source you run with that network you are going to be ballin it.
what's even more worse is the fact that some networks push particular offers pretty hard to their other affiliates if you do some big volume on it, just to squeeze out some more bucks. happened to me a couple times in the past..therefore i prefer networks that don't send out big newsletter and keep things more quiet..
"If they are new affiliates lured by the promise of instant riches then in all likelihood the network wont even have to pay commission as the affiliates will have gone broke before getting to payout qualification."
Ha, ya its the incent site model. I dont think many networks care for the longevity of the majority of their affiliates. It is what it is... Not the cleanest of industries, certainly not the dirtiest.
haha. yeah.
Originally Posted by izmb
Originally Posted by nusolutionz
Originally Posted by izmb
ok guys lets keep the bashing to the networks and not each other please....
Guys keep it civil!
No need to get into useless fights , focus on making the $$.
Originally Posted by nusolutionz
back to topic..whats your experience with networks/am's?
Good thread Polar. Aftger moving from SEO to paid traffic, I've been engaging with AMs a lot more for advice and have often wondered whether I'm getting smoke blown up my ass. I was going to start a thread called "Identifying & Avoiding AM Bullshit" or something like that. May as well throw up a few questions here since you're on-topic:
> What do good AMs do/should do for you?
> How do you know whether a recommended offer is performing well on a network opposed to it being their 'bonus/push this week' offer
> Is it poor form to contact other AMs within a network if they aren't the ones assigned to you? (heard a few names thrown around on the forum of some top AMs)
But anyway, I know what you mean Dan. I know they say age has nothing to do with running a profitable business, but maturity is needed. It's fairly easy to observe which networks have responsible owners and employees. Treat your affiliates and business partners with respect and it'll go both ways in building loyalty.
Great point Polar.
I think its this whole grind hard mo' moniez im stunnin' philosophy that continues this. The model that many networks follow is quite simple. Lure affiliates with promise of riches, have them compete among themselves for the scraps, encourage them to take unnecessary risks meanwhile profit from having 1000 affs pushing on avg $20 a day.
The model that is emerging will be more boutique networks and enterprise level affiliates who take their business seriously (including what networks to partner with).
Either way both the "Walmarts" of networks and the "boutiques" will coexist with one focusing on volume while the other on quality and accountability.
For new affiliates I do feel bad that there are less quality networks that will take someone with no experience forcing them to join the shadier networks that preach more risky methods to drive traffic.
What you're talking about is a super complex problem. First of all a lot of networks are run or managed by people that have never run campaigns and don't have a clue what they're doing they just know how to sell.
Even if the owner of the network was an affiliate and understands what you guys go through they very well may not be a good leader and suck at the ability to transfer that knowledge downstream. I've seen this a lot of times.
So you could hire ex-affiliates as AM's but this poses it's own challenges. I've hired a bunch of ex-AM's that haven't worked out cause they just came and stole ideas and left.
So you need a leader that understands how you do and what you do it. Can coach you how to grow your business and turn it from just making a couple bucks to an actual real business. And not only that they have to be able to transfer their knowledge to their AM staff and get them educated to the point where you feel there is real value in communicating with them and you're not going to send them down a false path and tell you it's real.
See how complicated this is and why there's only a couple of networks that make this a reality?
It's hard as hell.
With that said just keep looking around for the right network and AM. They are out there. Keep in mind when you find the right one or two stick with them, don't bounce around on price, the more you give to them the more they'll give to you.
Above coming from one of the only network owners out there that has never compromised over the years. Ads4Dough has consistently been a top affiliate network without having to race to the bottom like so many others. Keep up the good work Jason.
I know when I started out, I signed up for several networks and tried reaching out to my AM's. At the time only ONE network was willing to have a conversation with me about what/how I should be doing things and that was A4D (jon was my AM).
I had only earned $1000 in rev. over a 5 month period but during that time we had daily convos about how to improve on things and what I was doing wrong (he treated me almost as if I actually made him money lol). The following month my revenue went from $1,000 YTD to $10,000 YTD. All the other networks that blew me off, I have since written them off. I have also had good experiences with Riley Pool and Wolfstorm Media since starting out.
I tend to do business on a personal level, in other words, if you are going to send bullshit emails titled "Jonas I know you are going to love this offer", yet I haven't talked to you, then I most likely don't want to do business with you.
With that said, I agree with Smaxor I'd rather work with a few networks closely and build on that relationship!
Originally Posted by Smaxor
Originally Posted by jonas33h
This is a very good topic and a great perspective from the other side from Jason. I bitch about this topic from time to time on Twitter. Some of the newsletters I get are just outrageous.
For example a somewhat popular network was sending me emails and I always looked them over. Every time I saw an offer that I thought I could run with a great angle I would hit up the AM and ask for conversion rates, epc's, you know the drill. All three times I asked each offer converted at less than 2% and had epcs that were like $0.25 or something. And of course these were offers that were under the most volume, top offers, hottest offer, whatever-the-fuck category. It really is a shame and drives me fucking crazy.
This industry is full of affiliates who lie about their income and steal campaigns, networks that push shitty offers and hand over other affiliates' campaigns. There's no surprise to me that the FTC is involved. This industry can be your path to riches, but on your way there, be sure to watch out for the scammers... fuck it I'm rambling.
I hate this industry, sometimes.
Originally Posted by rileypool
I hate this industry, sometimes, too but the paychecks are too damn good :-)
There's a never-ending stream of noobs whose eye light up when their beloved network owner/Am tells them about the latest and greatest offer that is killin it.
Heck, for some being allowed into the "exclusive" network when they are only accepting 3 new affiliates is enough to make them splash their $$$ on whatever is "hot"
"if i have learned one thing in the last 8 years it's not to give a fuck about any hype a network creates" -
This.
Most of my successful campaigns have come from an affiliate manager who's taken the time to understand my traffic and my goals, and done research on his end to match a particular offer to that. An affiliate can find most offers on any network, but for me it comes down trusting that I'm not going to be fed a bunch of nonsense.
"Hey this offer says it's a simple cell number submit, but it pays $7, there have to be more steps on the conversion path. Are you sure that's right?"
"yeah pretty sure man"
"Ok cool thanks for digging into that for me. Why don't you take the afternoon off."
"Hey you pushed this offer to me all week, I threw a thousand clicks at it, and I didn't get any conversions. I'm willing to keep testing, but can you make sure the conversion pixel is firing correctly?"
"Pretty sure it is"
"Damn slow down and take a breather, Superman! Work to live, don't live to work! Here's my wallet"
Originally Posted by deondup
haha your post made me smile as i know exactly what your referring too :-)
deondup you gotta run offer xyz other affilliates are killing it and banking hard...
hahs sure..you're saturating it by sending out that bullshit and now you want me to run it?
I am reading this thread from the perspective of one of the never-ending streaming noobs. I mean give us noobs a bit of credit not everyone that is a noob at IM is a noob at life. You would have to be a complete drooler not to see that these "hot" offers ect. are a sales pitch.
Anyway, what I am not sure I understand is why are people seemingly afraid to name names? Who are these "shady" networks, who are the solid reliable ones? I mean I think I have a pretty good idea from my own dealings. Is it some kind of no-snitching code of ethics that keeps people from post "xyz" network sucks and is shady as hell.
Cool thread guys, good read.
^ I openly told people who I have worked with that are good as far as I am concerned, A4D, Riley Pool, Wolfstorm Media. . . . No need for me to mention who didn't work well for me (after all it's only one experience). But just use common sense, if they are helpful when you don't make them any money that's a good sign no need to hash on a bad experience unless it's a serious issue.
There is this one network with a facebook group. This network lately been sending out international rebill "Free trial" offers for me just to find out that they are not free trial offers, but CPS offers. What could you really expect from a network that dont even bother to check if the offers are trial offers or CPS before they send out emails? Yes its the private (x) network everyone here refers to :P
If a network has to keep telling you they are the best then they probably aren't.
Originally Posted by ibanez
In all seriousness if you're a n00b take your business seriously and soon you'll find the networks that are worth your time.
Also, when I referred to networks encouraging affiliates to take risks I'm referring to when a network "explicitly" tells affiliates to cloak Facebook to get offers through. I mean its one thing to drop a hint, it's another to blast it in your newsletter to 1000s of affiliates.
As for the code of silence its quite simple. No one wants to talk shit especially when networks drop legal action and defamation claims over it. (Case in point poor n00b pm'ed me for just such incident he was dealing with)
lol(x2) for Honey Badger Web Assets
Just as a fyi I wasn't singling any network out.....
It just seems very common among alot of networks these days tbh....
Finding a good AM/network is priceless these days it seems....
but then again I only see the aff side.....hence why I started this thread.....
so far its been rather enlightening....thanks for all the good posts
Originally Posted by The Angry Russian
"New Triple Brokered Teeth Whitening Offers"
I bout peed my pants.....funny shit
Originally Posted by deondup
Hbwa!!
Very good points in this thread...and lol@hbwa 
Jonas33h already mentioned a few networks he works with, any other ones you guys would like to out that you think are decent?
lol, I'm surprised the owner of the "Honey Badger Network" hasn't chimed in... Pretty sick of there BS overall as well. The Walmart of affiliate networks alright... Nothign to be proud of.
YOU MAD BRO?
YOU MAD BRO?
YOU MAD BRO?
YOU MAD BRO?
Fucking gong show.
Not to toot my own horn but I give my affs proven offers that I have already tested myself and work. I would rather do volume and scale on something long term than make a quick buck. Ask anyone on the board that works with us.
hmmm.....
well this thread wasn't meant to bash one network
It was more about the style of promotion that alot of networks seem to be jumping on...or expanding on....
and I wanted to know from network owners if this really works for them....and if this is gonna be the defacto standard moving forward....cuz its crazy profitable for them.....
to me it seems counterproductive.....but I am just a lowly aff and can't see the picture from the top....
I appreciate the network owners who have chimed in....thx for the info....
He is the J Peterman of CPA networks.... every e-mail has the copywriting prowess of a J.Peterman catalog. Here's an excerpt for you fine gentlemen:
"I was browsing in a Paris antique shop one winter afternoon when a fitted leather train case caught my eye. It contained silver-handled brushes, boot hooks, a straight razor, several silver-stoppered glass bottles... One bottle was different. Encased in yew-wood, with a handwritten date: 1903. Inside the bottle, there was still the faint, intriguing aroma of a gentleman’s cologne. A “prescription” cologne, custom-made for a rich traveler a century ago. Curiosity was eating at me.
I bought the case (the price was shocking) and sent the bottle to a laboratory for analysis. They broke down the residue by gas chromatography. Identified its fingerprint through spectro-photometry. The report said: an “old woody fougère.” Clean citrus notes, bergamot, "green notes." The middle notes: clary sage…cardamom. The dry-down: leather notes, smoky labdanum…elemi, tabac, frankincense. The detective work was impressive. So is the thing itself. Women like the way it smells on a man. Like a symphony that begins loudly, then soon slides into subtle, entangling developments that grow on them.
Or so I’ve been told."
I see lot's of parallels with HoneyBadger.
I wonder who actually created this http://honeybadgerwebassets.com/ ! Seems that there is a war behind the scene...
I subscribed to the HBWA newsletter 
I dont know his name but i think it was blokblok from wickedfire
We need to poll to see which your fav networks are.
Guess what? I actually watched the whole video at honeybadgerwebasset.com and I googled for "honey badger immune to venom?"... Sick ass..
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/honeybadgerwebassets.com#
That honeybadgerwebassets site is hilarious.
I was chatting with a friend the other day about this exact same thing. We're both somewhat new to this game, but not new to business, or common courtesy. It's nice to hear that eventually we will meet some cool AM's who want to work 'with' us, instead of just sending bulk emails up-selling new hot offerz, or 1 line responses to complicated questions.
My experience has always been if a network doesn't promote itself too hard then usually they have AMs that give a crap.
IMO you should stick with a few networks, say 2-3 main ones. It's not the most stable of industries and like we've seen recently even the top dog networks can go down and not pay out to their affiliates. Best thing you can do is form a close relationship with AM's at a few of the most reputable networks, and if you make them money they'll help you make more money. In some cases it's just the AM you're dealing with that isn't good at what they do. It's even more true when you're just starting out and a low volume affiliate, networks don't want to waste time on a whole bunch of noobs that'll ask them 1000 different questions and not produce anything because they came in thinking it was a get rich quick scheme.
The reality is you need to be upfront with them and know your shit. Even if you aren't a major player yet, talk to them like a serious business person that only wants to work with the best and most trustworthy network (which you are anyways). Instead of just answering their application questions, ask THEM questions on what they can do FOR you.
You made this observation 10 years ago, looks like this is the way things went. Pretty spot on mate!
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