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Conquering mobile - Part 2 (28)

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Hello everyone,

This is part 2 of this follow along (https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...ard-or-go-home!). I've been trying to revive old follow along few times, but I think it's best to start a new one, and because I've almost completely transferred from banners to pops.

So let's start
What I'm currently running:

1. Camp 1 - Whatsapp/ZA

I've been testing lots of offers (around 30/100) and there are 2 that are green so far. At this point I'm not sure should I test more offers, or try to optimize those 2 (looking to get profitable asap because pop camps doesn't last lon). Right now I'm testing 3 riped landers with one I've come up on my own (solid performer). Tomorrow will have results and will have best lander and offer.

So far this is what I've done:
- placement blacklist (every placement which spend 1 x payout on best offer, or 3 x payout overall. Also I've blacklisted some placements with lot's of conversions and with really bad ROI - less than -50%). I've take note of everything I've blacklisted so I can retest them later if needed.
- OS and browser version blacklist - one of each, they had 4 x payout and not a single conversion, so I've blacklisted them, although not sure is that right decisions.
- tested each carrier seperately, found that 1 is not performing very good so I've stopped that and continue my test on other 2.

Main problems I'm dealing with:
- not enough volume on my main traffic source which is popads. I've migrated my camps to popcash also (too bad there's not browsers and OS version targeting and carrier targeting), TONIC and waiting for Zero Park for approval. Hope I'll find enough volume there.
- since my page appeared on Adplexity, ROI is much lower, so I need to act fast and get green asap so I can bid higher. Also I'm testing every new offer which appear on networks I'm working with .

Future activities:
- I've asked my AM for other WA offers similar to the one I'm running but in different GEOs. He gave me a list of few offers (1-2 for each GEO) and I and my mastermind buddy will test all those GEOs and try to find some good ones. I just rip 1-2 pages from adplexity and translate my best page for that vertical, add 1-3 offers and run initial test. I'm just waiting for translations to be done and my designer to clean riped pages and I'll start those camps.

Will try to update this thread daily Hear you soon

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very interested to see your next update!

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Hi everyone, I guess I failed to update this daily, but better late then never
I've dropped ZA camp :/

Right now I'm doing MX and JO pins:

Antivirus in Mexico

I've tested few offers and landers, found the wining combo (-15% ROI). What I'm doing now is testing winning offer and 20 different headline variations of my lander. So far I have 2 green ones but my main problem is lack of volume I have on popads. I've tried Propeller ads but my camps got rejected (guess I should be less aggressive if I want to run there) and was looking for popcash, but since my offer is for one carrier only and popcash doesn't have carrier targeting that wouldn't work. My #1 goal for Mexico is to increase volume - try new traffic sources. If anyone has any suggestion for that please let me know

Antivirus & Whatsapp in Jordan

On this camp I'm running 3 offers on 3 landers. Goal is to find best combo, then test more offers I've just start this test, so there is no result on it, but I'll give my best to provide you with screenshots of both camps. Good thing is that Popads have decent amount of traffic for Jordan, and since offer accepts all carrier I can run it on Popcash which also have good volume and send traffic from unprofitable carriers to monetizer, or some other offer, but that's another subject

Next thing I would like to do is test 3-4 more GEOs with Whatsapp and AVs and then focus on the most promising ones.

Any feedback appreciated

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As you've discovered, running AV offers aggressively without cloaking will really limit traffic volumes. Basically you'd be restricted to running on popads and zeropark and maybe popcash. And even some of these will not allow ALL AV landers (the google logo is not allowed on zeropark for example).

And if you're running carrier traffic - then traffic volumes would be even smaller. And as you've found out, popcash doesn't have carrier targeting. You can contact popcash support to turn off wifi traffic for selective camps, but they won't give you traffic for a specific carrier.

I would suggest that you either pick a different vertical, or test offers that accept wifi and invest in cutting placements for only the bigger geos.

But I'll do my best to help you optimize your camps either way. Looking forward to seeing some stats!



Amy

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Little late, but here are stats on my latest camps

1. Kenya - Antivirus
As one of my AMs and one mastermind friend recommended I've tried KE with both AV and WA pins, and short story short, after difficulty with finding right traffic source, these are my results for it. Note that I've tested every offer in networks I work with (3 of them) as well as every recommended offer from others network where I'm signed up.
So at this stage, I have my best offer, best page and next step is to come up with my own unique angles and try to get this camp into green

Offers - this are one day test - I know those results don't have statistical significance, but winning offer already prove itself as the best one in previous tests (there have been 2 before this) and for the sake of speed I've chose that one.


Landers for winning offer (best 2 - right now there is test performing to choose winner out of those 2, if result is still tie, I'll choose one I think it will suit my new angles the best)


I've found some placements which spend quite a lot ($30 - $40) without conversion so I've paused them as well as every placements which has not converted after 1 payout spent.

Also I've drilled down to my hours of day report and these are the stats - not sure should I do anything based on that yet, or at later stages of my camp


Right now I'm running test in Malaysia, Lithuania, Australia and Jordan, and as soon as they are finished, I'll post stats here.

Main problem I'm experiencing right now is extremely low CTR on ZeroPark. Do you have any clue why is that? Anyone experience the same?
These are my landers stats for ZeroPark Lithuania camp



Hear you soon, any feedback appreciated

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Today, I took my participation in Mr Payne Challenge, expect some stats soon

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Are you targeting Telcel (ISP) only on Popads? Or are you targeting other ISPs?

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For MX campaign, yes. And for any other - I'm targeting only one carrier per campaign.

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Is your offer+lander combination in green?

Have you drilled down into OS/Browser/Carrier? Although - I would suggest not to cut any major segments unless they convert very badly, because cutting placements further may push them into green.

More importantly: Have you tested bids yet? And how many traffic networks have you scaled this camp to? You'll need to test bids on every source.

Does your best offer only accept wifi traffic or carrier? I heard that PopCash has begun to allow targeting by specific carriers upon request - it used to be that they could just turn off wifi but not allow targeting by a single carrier. Worth asking PopCash support to verify this!

Also: AV converts well for both adult and mainstream traffic. So if you haven't been targeting adult you definitely should.


Those CTRs DO look horribly low.

Some geos just naturally have low lander CTRs for certain verticals. Unfortunately I don't have stats to draw from for this geo for comparison purposes.

Your lander CTRs for the KE camp look normal, so I'm going to assume that your whole CDN+tracking setup is correct, and that your tracker redirection speed and lander load times are reasonable.

Still, for this LT camp, I would still do some basic checks, such as using a mobile device to browse to the campaign link a few times, and click through to the offer, just to make sure that 1)landers are loading reasonably fast and functioning as they should, and 2)you can reach the offer (this is not always possible - e.g. if you're running carrier-billing offers; but even in that case, your aff network should redirect to SOMEWHERE - at least make sure you don't get an error when you click on an outgoing lander link).

For ZP specifically - because they're brokering from a lot of sources, quality can vary greatly from one source to the next. If you're running wifi traffic, be sure to run a bot test first. Alternatively, just siphon off a percentage of your traffic to afflow - passing your ZP source and targets data via the afflow link - to see in afflow stats the bot percentage of each placement. I would also suggest to do your offer+lander testing on popads or propeller first, then scale the winner to zeropark and focus on cutting. They have a lot of traffic, with good mixed in with bad, and it would be cheaper to use your best offer+lander to identify the bad, rather than do your actual lander+offer testing there.


Looking forward!



Amy

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Hi amy,

I am running antivirus campaign at Malaysia using pops ads. I do using some aggressive lander without cloak. The vol are pretty low as I target carrier as well. As you mentioned about cloaking, any suggestion or advice ? Many thanks.

Cheers,
Leong

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I am getting zero impressions whenever I target Telcel and Radiomovil Dipsa S.A. de C.V
on Popads.

Not sure what I'm doing wrong.

So you're only targeting Telcel like this?:http://prnt.sc/eqvm1g

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Exactly. I've got really small amount of impressions despite bidding relatively high, so that can be the case - at lower bids you'll get really little or none impressions

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I can't openly condone the practice of cloaking - but there are a few threads on that topic here in the forums - and here is one of them which you may find useful:

https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...ne-is-the-best


Yup - no traffic volume for that carrier on PopAds - see my screenshots in the first post:

https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...esting!-Part-1



Amy

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I've been pretty busy a while so I didn't make to update my follow along, but here I am with pretty interesting question.

Little intro:

I've been runing KE for a while gathered some data, tested some more sources at different bids, and I have few placements for whitelist on one source I've been runing


So after gathering through data this is what I came on:


Question 1: Should I create separate camp for Opera only? And remove Opera from my main camp? Or just remove every other browser from main camp and keep it running with Opera only?

And this on another source

http://prntscr.com/f44zl5

Question 2: Could I target only chrome, and remove some unprofitable versions in order to get green on that. Or should I delete opera from my targeting, or only target profitable segments?

http://prntscr.com/f451fd - same story here, should I target only green brands?

Thanks in advance.

P.S. I'm currently working on 2 camps (MY AV & sweeps and KE AV) so it's hard to post updates, because I have so much data and I'm not sure what to post But I prommise that for my new camp I'll post daily updates.

Thanks in advance

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In general it's a good idea to break out profitable targeting options into separate campaigns and run higher bids to get more traffic for it.

However for the first screenshot I would try getting more traffic first.

Of course 70% ROI looks nice, but the absolute figures are tiny.

Keep testing your campaign on a couple other of the big pop sources to see if you can get decent traffic on some.

With more traffic the optimizations will then be worth your time.

This one I would kill http://prntscr.com/f44zl5
This one I would optimize http://prntscr.com/f451fd by cutting non profitable targeting, or breaking the non profitable out into seperate campaign and try running it with lower bid.

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thanks a lot man! I'm really eager to make this Kenya camp working

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bnvltd Am following this .

I am sure you will enjoy Seeing Green Soon .

an other thing to keep in mind
i have noticed in Kenya there Official languages are: Swahili, English .

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exactly, but all devices are set on English language, i've tried Swahili but English outperform it

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@sebastian_r I've listened to your advice but on TONIC it's impossible to target specific models

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Try to use both languages in your landing page .
for example in your headline
you can write it using English and underneath write it using Swahili but not bolder like the main one
i think that will help with people who don't speak English

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One more thing I'm experiencing is low CTR, any resources on how can I improve that?

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It's easy to over-optimize. Unless a traffic segment has a lot of traffic, it may not be worth it to break it out into its own camp - you may make a couple more bucks a day, but then you'd have an extra camp to manage. You can test this by starting a separate camp for Opera Mini and bidding higher, and see if the profits are worth your effort. But it would be wise to keep the original camp running because that's where most of your traffic volume is, so you'd want to optimize that further.

A better approach is to optimize the funnel via testing more landers and offers, in order to make more of the traffic profitable overall. How many landers and offers have you tested? ALWAYS do your reasonable best to improve your funnel first, before spending money on cutting stuff - the latter is more expensive and will leave you with less profits.

Could you please check something? Sort your placements by decreasing profits, and add up the profits from all the green placements. How much total profits are they bringing in every day? (Again - I'm JUST talking about the profitable placements, not the camp overall.)

As for tips on increasing CTR - got you covered!

https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...-AM-FAQ-Thread!





Amy

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Hi Amy,

I guess that's the story in my case, cause I couldn't find much traffic for Kenya compared to other GEOs. I've tested about 5 offers, and for a while one offer is having the most conversions, and I couldn't find it in other networks and couldn't find new offers as well. I've tested few lander, and then tested 5 angles on winning lander, so I have one lander and one offer right now. I've created white-list camp, which is a little bit above zero, and on TONIC I've created only chrome camp, which is also green (1-2$ per day), and they all have really low amount of traffic.

This is stats for my placements for May:
Selfadvertiser mid bid: $4.56 (all green placements have only 1 conv) + whitelist $5
Tonic targeting only chrome: $17.81 (only one placement have 2 conv, rest have only 1)
Backlink campaign: $3

I've checked my TONIC camp, which is traffic source I've initially tested this camp on - green placements accumulated $28 in April (note that campaign did not run every day)

What I was thinking is to restart my camps using winning offer and 3-4 lander variations aiming to improve CTR and with blacklist I have and since I know what bid level works best I could skip that test. What do you think about that?

Thanks for your help!

Vasa

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Hey Vasa - Let's back up here - obviously your current traffic levels are too small for you to do anything with. Making $1-2/day in profits is simply not worth keeping a camp running, even for the newest of newbies.

Here's optimization in a nutshell: You need to test offers and landers until you can make enough of the total traffic profitable, and then cut all the unprofitable parts.

You need to make sure you have enough traffic to start with, otherwise the battle is lost before you even start.

The more traffic you have, the more placements/OS/etc. you can afford to cut and still have enough left over to profit from. But then, even if you have a ton of traffic to start with, you should try to make the biggest increases in ROI through testing offers and landers FIRST, before relying on cutting placements to get you the rest of the way to green.

So - how do you know whether or not you're making enough of the traffic profitable? An easy way to estimate this, is to run a full day's worth of traffic, then sort your placement stats by decreasing profits. Add up all the profits from your profitable placements - this would be an estimate of how profitable your camp could be after cutting loser placements. Of course, if you have major traffic segments such as a major OS/browser/carrier/etc. that is performing particularly badly, that you could cut to increase the performance of all placements, then you would want to take that into account when coming up with the estimated profits.

So - if the total profits from your profitable placements are small, then there would be no point in continuing the camp - because you won't be left with much profits after cutting the unprofitable placements.

Now - in your particular case - your offer+lander are obviously not making enough of the total traffic profitable, which has resulted in massive cutting of placements, which in turn has resulted in a trickle of traffic and little bits of profits being left over.

Your options are to either 1)Test more offers and landers (especially offers!) for this camp, or 2)Test another geo.

And don't bother breaking out little traffic segments into their own camps - such as a small browser. That would be a complete waste of your time. If you can't make more traffic segments profitable than just little segments, then you probably should be testing more offers and landers.

This is one of the most common newbie experiences - good lesson learned.

Are you targeting KE Wifi or KE Carrier? If the latter, which carrier?



Amy

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Hi Amy,

First of all, thank you a lot for your detailed answer! I'm targeting Safaricom at the moment. Last time I've checked there wasn't more offers that i hadn't test before, I'll check once again but I think offer I have is currently the best one in Kenya. I'll try to increase ROI by massive lander testing I'm gonna start this camp all over again, and test Adcash - heared that they have the most volume. But yeah - lesson learned, it would definitely ease my decisions on next campaigns. Following this I have similar but not so similar situation in my MY campaign:



I found out that most of my conversions are made on Samsung and it's close to break even. I've only tested 3 offers and 3 landers so far, and plan to test many more. So I was thinking that since Samsung is about 50% of my traffic, and for Malaysia there's definitely ton of traffic, should I optimize this camp on Samsung first, and then add another brand? Thanks a lot!

Vasa

Next tasks:

1. Run display camp for KE on adcash, see what will happen there
2. Run Indonesia sweep offer
3. Run MY camp to collect more data, get to one offer and one lander combo and then use that lander to mass test ALL Malaysia offers I can found in my networks

P.S. For future posts - how can I add screenshots in order to be visible without clicking on them?

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If you've already tested a decent number of landers (5-10+), and a lot of offers (to the point where you feel that you're already running the best / one of the best), then further testing may yield diminishing returns, i.e. all your efforts may only get you minor increases in ROI/profits (or not at all).

If you can figure out how to keep landers out of spy tools, then focusing on developing completely original landers that outperform all the popular current ones in use, can be a big edge. I have done that in the past where I was able to reap the rewards across many geos using variations of one original lander for quite a while.

Make sure you've tested different bid levels for this Safaricom camp. Test high and low, and test at least several. Keep the one(s) that look promising and cut placements.

I would just leave that camp for now and come back to it when new offers come on the market. You already have a list of good placements to test the new offers on, which means you'll be able to test for cheap/free or even make a bit of money from the start. And you'll have stats from the current offer to compare the new offer to - if the new offer doesn't do better than the current one, you'd know not to bother with that either. If the new offer does considerably better than your current one, and can make your good placements profitable, then you could open up previously-blacklisted placements for a retest.

You can do that - use the best-converting traffic to test offers/landers for cheap, then once you find a good offer+lander, open up your targeting.

Instead of looking at brands though, I would probably just optimize based on OS since every traffic source has that targeting option. In this particular case it wouldn't make much difference though, because Samsung is the major brand for the Android OS. The important thing to remember (as we've discussed before) is to avoid optimizing for little traffic segments, especially when you're running carrier traffic which already limits traffic volume. Basically, unless you're targeting one of the few really big carriers that have lots of traffic, you wouldn't want to look at stuff like the smaller brands, OSs other than android/ios and MAYBE windows phones, and maybe RIM depending on the geo; or browser versions. You still could drill down into them and blacklist the bad ones if you have the time, but avoid breaking them out into a whitelist camp - as you've already found out, keeping little camps running is rarely satisfying. Don't do that to yourself - your time is worth way more than the couple of dollars a day you get in exchange for babysitting such small camps.

So back to your MY camp - look through your OS stats to verify that Android is doing the best relatively, then just target it like you've suggested.


Sounds good! Looking forward to seeing how you fare!


Upload your images to imgur.com, then go to share and grab the bbcode link and paste them directly into the post.



Amy

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Hi Amy,

Thanks once again for you help! Actually, I've found few new offers for Kenya, and I'm testing them in batch of 8. I've chosen TONIC because it has the most traffic, restarted all previously blacklisted placement (I've blacklist them very aggressively - after 1 x payout without conversion, so now with good lander I was thinking about retesting them). After I found best offer, I'll then create lots of lander variation. If anyone knows how to hide page from Adplexity and wants to help, please PM me
Also I've started a KE camp on Adcash as well and it's instantly green (X/day) without any cutting or anything. Only thing is my zoneid parameter is not working so I paused campaign, and waiting for Monday so support can solve my problem
Also, as Andrew (mr_payne) recommended in one of his articles, I've started direct link campaign on Zeropark with 6 offers in rotation (movies, zodiac) and will see how will that perform. At the moment I'm writing this I'm waiting go2mobi to approve my banners for second time (first time my camp got rejected because of generic banners)

Malaysia camp
Guess this camp is not as promising as it used to be 20 days ago (saturation, more competition or something) so I'm gonna start tomorrow with only one offer (doing the best, but not stat. significant, also in top offer report for weeks now) and test lot's of landers and after I find best lander, I'll test more offers. I'm targeting only Android and within it will optimize for Samsung first, because I have enough volume there, and I'm really close to breaking even there.

Indonesia sweeps
I've tested one offer on 2 pages on 3 traffic sources. All camps were around -85% ROI, but since I target wifi and have enormous amount of traffic lot's of cuting needs to be done in order to see if this camp has potential or not. Today I've performed a bot test (found only few placements with more than 80% bot traffic), found same offer from different network, and since I've cut one lander, I've introduced new one into rotation.
Game plan for this camp:
1. Cut one traffic source tomorrow
2. Find winning offer and test more landers on it

I've started 2 more camps today in Italy and Kazakhstan, and plan to start 1-2 more tomorrow.
This is short recap of what I've been doing yesterday and today, hope I'll have more data to share with you tomorrow

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Sounds good! You got generic banners rejected at G2M? How did you manage that? Were they aggressive/misleading in any way? I still have generic banners running there.


Yikes on multiple points!

1)Testing only 1 offer and 2 landers - Nono #1.

2)Keeping multiple camps running on multiple sources before you have a promising offer+lander, such that you're losing multiple times the money on testing - Nono #2.

Don't make the typical newbie mistake of being too lazy to test landers and offers, and going straight to cutting placements. If you keep this up you're going to keep losing money on cutting from extreme red to less red, and then MAYBE to green, just to either have the camp die on you (natural death) or the offer expiring (which happens all the time).

Of course you could still take advantage of the optimized placements by running all future offers there, but why not just test offers FIRST to avoid all this grief? I'd rather test 10 more offers to potentially increase campaign ROI by leaps and bounds, than to slow inch up the ROI ladder by cutting a ton of placements.

Based on your game plan it sounds like you already understand this for the most part - I just wanted to make double sure. And I would suggest to just leave one traffic source running (either your best-converting one - for keeping costs low - or the one that's giving you the most traffic - for faster testing). Then use it to test multiple offers then landers, or landers then offers.


Awesome - looking forward!



Amy

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