Home > Mobile > Follow-along Campaigns

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30 Day Mobile Pops Challenge (daily campaign launching!) (31)

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After being on a long hiatus (been settling some personal issues and cash flow problems) I'm back to rock and roll

It's always been said that the successful people never stops, never quits and never loses his/her enthusiasm - no matter how many times they fail or have setbacks

I've had my fair share - and it's time to bounce back up from the trenches and into the incredible realm of STM follow along!

Short backstory: So I was at AWA - just decided to "fuck it" and buy the tickets, even though I didn't know what to expect (thanks to some advice from a more senior affiliate, who's also my fellow countryman) - And yes, I understand it is ASW now so I'm pretty late with my updates -

And I just had to say, it was the most amazing experience ever! Meeting people. Meeting my affiliate managers. Exploring the booths. Going to the networking events. Seeing all the affiliates in person - really made me break my mindset about what's possible in this industry

Also another bonus: I won a private lunch with Charles on one of his blog's contests! Very amazing experience. Although I felt it was quite wasted for me to attend the lunch, since y'know... I'm still new and I wouldn't even know what to say/ask him



Overall he's a very great guy to talk to, and p.s lunch was really gooooood! (Thanks again, Charles & the Affcelerator team!)

Fast forward, ever since I'm back from AWA - I settled all my stuff, got my shit together, and started back immediately to my Affiliate Marketing lifestyle! (Although it took me quite a while to re-learn everything - I'm a slow learner... especially at tech stuff) and now I'm back!

With my goals:

> I realized $xxx/day by XXX 2017 was a stupid goal - purely because it doesn't state my action plan of how I actually achieve this (Also, I've spoken to a few senior affiliates and they've told me that daily campaign performance means very little - the money made on Monday is no guarantee that I'll be making the same amount on Friday)

> I will launch at least 2 campaigns per day in the mobile pops Anti Virus vertical. I will be using mrpayne's method of carpet bombing many different offers and many different geos at one go. I will work it until I test all the offers I can for each geo that I am doing, and then I will move on to the next geo

And my commitments:

> Launching minimum 2 campaigns daily,
> Updating here and reviewing everything I've did
> And by the end of 30 days, I will definitely come out a much better affiliate (knowledge, experience and cash wise)

Here are my battle gear:

> STM Membership (the most important one)
> Voluum
> Adplexity
> Hide My Ass VPN
> Amazon S3 CDN
> Pingdom
> Cloaker (FB)

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And here we go:

Traffic Source: Propeller Ads
Geos Targeted: GH, IN, VN

1. Offers:
I went ahead to get approved for all the low payout AV offers I could find (below $1)

GH: 6 offers
IN: 1 offer
VN: 3 offers

Their payouts range from 0.25 - 0.45 (average $0.30)

2. Landers:
I got the landers from Adplexity, and then filtering down to the target geo. So I took the top performing landers of the geo (Most of the top performing landers look the same)

things to note: Not every geo's top lander is using Google logo AV lander (which confused me at the start because I thought that was the best one)


GH: 2 landers
IN: 2 landers
VN: 2 landers

Question: Following mrpayne's method, he suggested to take 2-3 landers and test all the offers because the point now is to find the best converting offer. Any differing opinions on this? Should I be testing more?

Upon ripping all the landers, I optimized them and removed all the unnecessary codes, and added in the required lander alert plugins

3. Traffic Source:

I'm using Propeller Ads as I've heard other affiliates and some threads here on STM highly recommending it

For the bids, I just took average bid x 1.5 (have not tried high medium low bidding)
I will usually take the points where the traffic starts to tip and have a big change in volume (as per the red circles)
Attachment 14090

Budget (as per mrpayne's recommendation) I set at: (avg payout X offers X landers X 3)

Settings:
> Frequency & Cap: 3/24
> Day parting & time scheduling: None
> Targeting all mobile, iOS, Android, Windows, + all their OS's versions (subject to individual offer requirements)
> Did not separate device and mobile ISP (I redirect non-required ISPs in Voluum rules)

These are the stats (Impressions, Conv, CPM, Cost) I got from Propeller Dashboard
Attachment 14091

After 30 minutes of starting the campaigns, my VN and IN campaigns got rejected as TS found out I'm cloaking

Question: How did they find out so fast?

And if they reject cloaked campaigns so fast - how do the people running aggressive landers on Adplexity do it all the time? (I even see that from Adplex the landers are being run on Propeller Ads)

Does this only apply to Propeller Ads? Or other traffic sources (eg. Zeropark, PopAds, etc) are more relaxed on the aggressive-ness of the lander?

4. Voluum report

Here's my Voluum campaign reports
Attachment 14092

One thing I must update is the click loss % from Propeller & Voluum


This amount definitely doesn't look normal
Another finding I discovered was that a lot of my traffic are coming from other geos (outside of GH, IN, VN), which I asked in this thread here

Question:
I'm not too sure why the clicks # here is so crazy


I've checked my scripts, and all my landers have disabled backbutton - history pushState location.replace("#")
Anyone any ideas?

5. Further Action

Not much left to update, only that I'm hoping to run the landers in another TS (Preferably one that's more relaxed and allow aggressive)
I've heard Zeropark, PopAds - Anyone got other recommendations?

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Lower tier GEOs most of the time have not the latest/newest creatives.

The ones you see floating around are not burnt out yet / they still convert good enough in the GEO. If the usual Tier 1/2 top lander is not been used in the geo yet, you can translate it on one hour translation and bring it to your GEO. It might give you a small edge.

For propeller, look into IP ranges and GeoEdge.

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Hey Aloeveraa1491, What type of cloaker are you using?

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Thanks for starting such a detailed follow-along!

BTW some of your attachments aren't showing. Instead of uploading images directly into the forum, it's a lot easier and more reliable to upload them to an image hosting site like imgur.com, and just paste the bbcode links into the post.

Basically for the initial round of testing (unless you already have a proven lander or offer), you'll need to either mass-test landers using a couple of offers in order to find the best lander first, or mass-test offers using a couple of landers in order to find the best offer first. Then in the second round of testing you'd mass-test the other thing (offer or lander).

If you're going to use a couple of offers to test landers first, it would be good to make sure the offers will convert to allow you to cut landers. Asking AMs for offers that are converting well for a number of other affiliates would be one way to do this. You don't need the best offer - you need at least one offer that converts well enough to help you identify the best lander.

If you're going to use a couple of landers to test offers first, it would be good to make sure the landers are very popular, i.e. lots of people are running them on adplexity and sending high traffic volumes for a long but recent period of time. And make sure they load fast enough. You don't need the best landers to cut offers in the first round - you need landers that work well enough to help you identify the best offer(s).


Propeller is pretty strict when it comes to landers.

I have very little idea on how to cloak and have no incentive to learn, because I'm working with geniuses that take care of that part of the work. Being a moderator I unfortunately can't talk about cloaking in any depth anyways. You may want to start a separate thread to ask this to see if you get better feedback from the cloaking veterans.

Sources that are less strict are Zeropark, PopAds, PopCash, and a lot of the adult sources that have pop. Just be careful with Exoclick as they don't like the typical antivirus landers either. Sebastian gave a list of good sources in this post:

https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...l=1#post300630

Speaking of requirements: Have you confirmed with your AM that the offers allow for aggressive promotion?


Again - it may be good to start a separate thread to see if anyone else are seeing similar numbers.

I haven't been running wifi camps, but I did run some for the 6-week AMC courses. I've just checked my stats from the most recent course dated last October for around 10 geos. Most of the geos had clickloss of under 20%. One geo had 30% and the worst one had 35% which is what you're seeing for 2 of your geos. Clickloss is definitely geo-dependant (although it's not the only influencing factor). None of my camps overlapped with your geos unfortunately - otherwise we could do a better comparison.


I've never seen crazy stats like these either!

First thing that comes to mind is your lander code. If you'd like, you could upload your landers to e.g. dropbox and PM me the link. I'll run some traffic to see if I get the some numbers.

It may very well be another reason as well - again, I would recommend starting a separate thread to see if anyone else could shed some light on this.

Having so many clicks registered will make for a big Voluum bill! Aside from this, the high clicks may be a sign of more serious problems as well. So it would be good to try to get to the bottom of this.


I would suggest sending a screenshot of your voluum's "Country" stats to Propeller support, remembering to refer to your Propeller camp ID. Sometimes people do get reimbursed for this type of thing. Wouldn't hurt to ask!



Amy

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This is a very good tip, I've did up new landers preparing to launch - based on US top landers and using it in my geo!

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I tried that, but some images are not showing, unless you right click it and click Open Image in New Tab
Do you check "Retrieve remote file and reference locally" when you "Insert image From URL"?


Yes! I'm currently trying the method of finding the best offers with 3-4 of the top landers in that specific geo! I figured it was more straightforward and simple to understand (for someoen like me) Regarding loading time, mine is not that good, I've already posted in the Programming section of the forum with my RUM and Page Speed results to ask for help!



Thank you for your recommendations!
For some of the offers I'm promoting, they did not state creative approval required and my AM also said they allow aggressive





I've never thought of it contributing to the Voluum bill until you mentioned it!
I'm going to try sending some traffic again to double confirm and see if the same situation pops up first (trying with another TS)

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Quick question regarding Voluum rules

Today I discovered that mass buying traffic from TS, then filtering the traffic at Voluum and separating them based on their geo/carrier/connection type can be more effective than separating the at the TS (where they will give you much lower volume when you separate too much - eg. wifi/carrier/phone models, etc)

Also signed up for YTZ to redirect all the remnant traffic to, so I set up my Voluum rules as such:



I'd just like to check, for the Voluum rules - I understand from Voluum articles and support:

First they go through the rules in numerical order priority, then the rest of the traffic goes to the default path

So if my offer only accepts
> Vietnam
> Mobifone
> Mobile 3g & wifi connection

Is this the right and most effective way for me to set up my Voluum rules?
Because I set this up as 3 different rules, instead of the Rules path in Voluum's helpdesk, where they talk about AND & OR for the rules (quite confusing for me)



So for rule #1, non Vietnam traffic goes to YTZ
Rule #2, Vietnam traffic but non mobifone goes to YTZ
Rule #3, Vietnam traffic, using mobifone but non 3g/wifi (Which I believe that as Voluum states, there's broadband, cable, etc) goes to YTZ

So after passing by all 3 of these rules, the traffic left is:
> Vietnam, mobifone, with 3g/wifi connection will go to the default path = OFFER!

So would just like to check with everyone, whether:

1. Is this the right way to set up the Rules path to redirect un-wanted traffic?
2. Is there a more effective/profitable way to do this?
3. Are there any other better places to redirect them to?

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Question:

For AV PIN submits, is Adult or Non-Adult traffic proven to be converting better?

I'm currently waiting for Zeropark to approve my campaigns - I selected both Adult and Non-Adult traffic in the campaign

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Also, how do you actually spread traffic throughout the day for more even results?

It's like when traffic is approved, depending on your bids, the giant volumes of traffic rushes in and your budget runs out in 30-60 minutes (or at least that's what happened to my last few campaigns)

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What I mean is, don't upload images to the forum as attachments. Instead, upload the image to imgur.com, get the bbcode link, and paste that into the post body, like so:








I see that my idol caurmen is already helping you with that! And it sounds like there's indeed a problem that needs to be resolved, which is much better than not even knowing what the issue is.


Good to test, but that phenomenon should not happen with ANY traffic source, period.

Are you seeing the same thing for any other camps on the same TS? What about when you're using other landers? Would be good to rip more landers and test them just to compare.

Hopefully you can trace the problem to a specific lander, in which case you could just exclude it.


This is true! The trick is you'd need to be able to monetize the remnant traffic is such a way that the campaign is in MORE profits overall than when you're just targeting the traffic segments you're needing for the main offer. So there's quite some testing involved there.

In addition to YTZ, also try afflow/monetizer later.


The setup you currently have with the 3 rules is technically correct but is not ideal. It would be safer to flip the model around - by redirecting the traffic you WANT to the main offer, and letting the rest of the traffic go to the default path where you specify YTZ.

There also seems to be a misunderstanding about wifi vs. carrier traffic. Wifi traffic usually includes broadband, XDSL, cable, dial up - basically connections via the internet. Whereas carrier traffic is the same as 3g/4g, which is when the visitor is connecting through their device's data plan. Not being tech-saavy, I may not be using the right terminology, but hopefully you still got the idea!

I definitely suggest that you verify with your AM whether the offer accepts both wifi+carrier traffic or just traffic from the Mobifone carrier.

For now I'm going to assume that the offer accepts both wifi+carrier traffic from the Mobifone ISP. What I would do is set up one rule that has multiple conditions ALL OF WHICH must be met in order for it to be executed:





Note I didn't even set up a rule for "mobile+wifi" because this includes all traffic. It would be like hanging a sign outside your restaurant that reads "only adults and children are allowed in" when the two groups jointly comprise of 100% of the population.

Also - what targeting you have set at the TS is relevant. If you're only targeting VN at the TS, then it would be redundant to specify the geo in the rule.

I should also mention that, if your offer only accepts carrier traffic from Mobifone, then your rules should say "If Mobile Carrier IS Mobifone". This is different from the case where your offer accepts both wifi+carrier traffic from Mobifone as an ISP. When you drill down into your "Mobile Carrier" stats and see "Other", that's the entry wifi traffic falls under. All other entries under "Mobile Carrier" are for carrier traffic from the respective carrier names.

Tracker rules can be complicated. Your case already isn't too difficult because you're only dealing with a single offer. When you get around to mass-testing offers and they all accept different OSs and carriers etc., please ask further questions then - I'll suggest a solution that will save you time in figuring things out from scratch.


Good choice! In general it would be good to test adult+mainstream traffic for AV offers.


Some TSs have a throttle setting, but I'm assuming you're running on a source that doesn't have that. Here are a couple of other ways to throttle traffic:

-If you've run in that geo before, and know which placements convert the best, then start by targeting just those. Even if you haven't run in the geo before, you can send an initial burst of traffic to identify placements that are at least converting, then just target those.

-Extending that idea, you can restrict your targeting in other ways to effectively throttle traffic, such as targeting only one OS or browser, or selective cities/regions, or one device type, or a combination thereof... just be aware that depending on the nature of your offer(s), test results may be skewed by restricting targeting.

Looking forward to your next update!




Amy

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Thanks for the pro tip on Voluum rules!

I'll be sure to find out on whether Mobifone applies to Wireless traffic as well! (However, sometimes my AM takes too long to reply me, I can't afford to wait that long and miss out on the speed of running campaigns!)

One more question: Example if now carrier allowed are Mobifone and Vinaphone, then how would you set up your rules?



I understand if I set up like this, this means Vietnam Mobifone OR Vietnam Vinaphone will be directed to that path - correct me if I'm wrong

If this is the case - then this definitely seems a lot simpler than what I've been doing

Also, just to check, I noticed you placed your rules under "ISP" - while I did under "Mobile Carrier" - (I tried ISP but there's no "Vinaphone" there) so is Mobile Carrier what I'm supposed to be targeting?

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Also, update/joke of the day:

I got my campaign at TS approved, and then ran it - only to realize that I forgot to turn on my cloaker - so all my visitors were sent to the safe page - and my Voluum didn't manage to track anything (Got too hurried away at wanting to launch as fast as possible that I forgot to double check all my infrastructure)

Note to everyone: Don't make the same mistake as me. Ever

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Hear you there. Fighting for your AM's attention when you're new can be difficult. The alternative though, would be for you to find out by throwing money at the camp - if wireless traffic doesn't convert after a lot of spend then you'd know.

Also - carrier traffic is more expensive than wifi, so you'd need to bid higher to get carrier traffic. If you target both wifi and carrier traffic in the same camp, you'd be overbidding for wifi traffic and underbidding for carrier traffic, which is not ideal.


That's correct!

This is why I stated the assumption that your offer accepted both wifi+carrier traffic under Mobifone AS AN ISP. Some companies provide both cellular and internet services.

If you're only targeting Mobifone's CARRIER traffic but not wifi, then yes, you'd want to set up the rule for "Mobile Carrier" and choose "Mobifone".

To clarify further: Entries under "Mobile Carrier" are all carrier traffic from mobile carriers, EXCEPT the entry "Other", which is wifi traffic. To see these stats, you can set up a test camp to target both carrier and wifi traffic, run a couple dollar's worth of traffic, and drill down into "Mobile Carrier" in your tracker. When you're setting up a rule for wifi traffic for example, you could specify "If MOBILE CARRIER is OTHER".


Oh no.....!

There are so many things that can go wrong with a camp's setup, that I almost always set a low budget on a new camp, just to make sure everything's working fine before I increase or remove the budget.

But yeah - shit happens, and sometimes the same shit will happen several times before we remember not to repeat it. Fingers crossed that the same thing won't happen again.




Amy

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It's a good goal/idea to make daily campaigns every day for a month. It will reinforce in your mind the act/idea of working on it everyday and you will keep doing it long term as well.

Good luck!

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Sorry, one last confirmation: at the offer page: It states Target only MobiPhone and VinaPhone Carrier users, allow 3g and wifi
So if that's the case

When traffic comes in, These settings below will allow MobiFone, Vinaphone, and ALL Wifi traffic? (I've no idea why, but in Voluum there's 2 options for "other" so I just put both in)
Do I still need to choose ISP? (Since I'm able to accept all wifi traffic as stated by offer)

Because I thought that carrier/wifi traffic is decided by Voluum rules > Connection Type (Mobile/Broadband/Wireless/Cable, etc, etc etc)?



p.s sorry for the image, suddenly I'm not able to upload to imgur, i've tried Chrome, Firefox, Safari - uploading failed for now, so I'll upload to the forums first

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Update: Just set up more new campaigns at ZP & Popads

Going to run 2 TS at one time to find the best TS>LP> Offer combination I can find

Awaiting approval from both TS

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Campaign 1,2,3 update:



Campaign 1:
I see some hope for this, considering there's 8 conversions

Judging from the landers, 6/8 conversions came from 1 specific lander, the other 2 conversions came from another lander (I am using 3 landers for that campaign)

Question:
Since now I am on the process of finding the best offer - do I continue using all these 3 landers? Or just use the 2 landers that have gave me conversions?


Also, out of the 14k+ visits, 5k of the visits went to YTZ rotator - because they did not fit my offer requirements (certain carrier) -

At my current stage of offer testing, should I just separate the traffic at TS? (Because right now I am just getting all the mobile traffic - all carriers, 3g, wifi, etc - and then separating them at Voluum to split into my offer, and the rest into YTZ) So I can save costs and get along with my objective: Which is to find the best converting offer

What's the best way to separate traffic at TS campaign? So I can get the best bang for my buck

Currently $5 out of my $15 budget for that geo is going to YTZ :S

Update: For my YTZ path, I drilled down from OFFERS > MOBILE CARRIERS, and a lot of my visits are going to "Others"
I am not sure if this is my wifi traffic that I accidentally directed to my YTZ path

However, in my rules I set, Mobile Carrier XX & YY & ZZ & OTHERS to be directed to my Offer path

Campaign 2:
As you can see, there's 13k visits, but only 3 clicks - as about 95% of visits went to YTZ (due to the Rules I set in the campaign, because of offer carrier requirements) - so they were not reported in Voluum

Question for this campaign 2 is the same as 1, where I ask what's the best way to separate traffic at TS level so I get the best bang for my buck (in terms of budget, traffic volume, and quality) & so I don't cut too much of my traffic by targeting too granular at TS (like ISP targeting, etc)

Campaign 3:
8.8k visits, 0 clicks - because all of them went to YTZ - and when I drilled down into OFFER > MOBILE CARRIER, all went into "Others" - same as campaign 1



Is "Others" considered Wifi?

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Campaign 4:

Not much results, as TS does not have enough traffic volume for the geo I'm running

Campaign 5:

Same issue as the above - most of my traffic visitors fell into the YTZ path, under MOBILE CARRIER > "Others", and to carriers that do not fit offer requirements
I set all my campaigns currently to the same Rules Path, so all of them are suffering from the same issue

Campaign 6:
Same as campaign 5

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Just to confirm with you, I've also set my rules as follows:

Under MOBILE CARRIER: All of offer's CARRIERS + "Others"



This is the correct settings right?
Because I'm trying to find out why so many of my visitors are being directed to my default YTZ path, as stated in the above 2 posts for my previous 6 campaigns

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I've been digging even deeper into the campaigns with conversions, digging deeper into Offers, Landers, Brands, ISP, Models, etc

And I've noticed there are several profitable targets, like:



I understand this may be too little of a result (only 1 conversion each, when dug deep down) but how should I proceed from here to make sure and confirm that these are indeed profitable?

Example, how much $$$ should I run to test? Or how many conversions in total to really make sure?
And should I be creating a whole new campaign for this to test and see the results?
Any assistance is appreciate on how I should go about the process! )

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Update: For campaign #1, with 8 conversions, here's what I did

> Removed 1 non performing lander (CTR was extremely low - 3%)
> Using same TS, split into 2 different campaigns (3G and Wifi)
> Add more budget to test all the offers (I have 6 offers in that campaign)
> Removed all Rules from Voluum, and targeted CARRIERS straight from TS

Question:
I was trying to find a good CPM to bid for both Carrier and Wifi traffic, however, I'm not able to see where to get the CPM/CPV from - is it gotten from Voluum or the TS?

Also, I was looking at vortex's thread, Pop Optimization Mini Case Studies > https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...ies-1&p=275004

And I saw she posted

And I'd like to clarify: Should I also up the bid in my new 3G & WIFI campaigns to get more traffic? And by how much?

And from my understanding, I thought that if you increased the bid, you are getting different placements of traffic? So maybe when you increase your bid, the new placements may not convert with your current TS-OFFER-LANDER combination?

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Don't dig too deep. The camp has not the traffic volume to justify your time investment.

After days and weeks of optimization you will end up making $5 profit. Your opportunity costs are very high when you operate this way / means running on traffic sources with little traffic for your targeting.

Try if you can get at least $100/day traffic on your main source. Higher bid, higher budget, broader targeting. If not try another source. If there is no traffic as well move on.

If i cannot get at least $100-200/day traffic on the first day, I move on immediatelly. After cutting thats just not worth it.

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The rule in your screenshot will allow 1)3g/carrier traffic from MobiFone, plus 2)3g/carrier traffic from Vinaphone, and 3)wifi traffic from ALL and ANY ISPs.

If this is what you want then fine. What I thought you wanted, was to target carrier traffic from MobiFone+Vinaphone, and also the wifi traffic from the ISPs/Telecommunication companies that the 2 carriers are under.

I don't blame us for being confused. Distinguishing between "ISP/Carrier" and "Mobile Carrier" is confusing enough. And running Viet Nam on PopAds doesn't help. I shed some light on this in a previous post:

https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...u-Can-t-Target!

What I would suggest is target carrier and wifi traffic in separate campaigns. Because carrier traffic tends to be quite a bit more expensive than wifi traffic is, if you target them in the same camp, you'd be overbidding for one and/or underbidding for the other.

Then you wouldn't need to mess around with voluum rules either.

As Sebastian has mentioned, there isn't a lot of carrier traffic for MobiFone and Vinaphone on PopAds. If the offer accepts wifi traffic also, then you'll need to count on it being profitable on wifi - otherwise the amount of carrier traffic won't bring you enough profits for the camp to be worth your time. However, being a newbie, this would make a good practice exercise.

But I'll go over how to target them on popads anyways - because you may run into the same issue again with another geo later on.

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PopAds has 2 tracking tokens you'll need to add to Voluum (if you haven't already): ISPID and ISPNAME.

I ran some VN traffic from popads - without any restrictions on ISP/carriers so I was getting all wifi and carrier traffic from all companies - then I dug into my Voluum stats:



This is very old data from over a year ago, before I started tracking ISPNAME. Ideally you should dig down to ISPNAME > Mobile Carrier. Your aim is to identify ISPNAMEs associated with the mobile carriers you're wanting to target in your popads camp settings. NOTE: The "Wifi" in the screenshot has since been replaced with "Other" by Voluum.

But since I only have ISPIDs, I'd need to look up the corresponding ISPNAMEs here:

https://www.popads.net/traffics/token_details

So I punched in the ISPIDs to look up the ISPNAMEs:





Now we know how to target Mobifone and Vinaphone on PopAds:



Say you want to set up a camp to target just carrier traffic for Vinaphone and Mobifone, then you'd select the 2 ISPs as in the screenshot above, and set "Connection Types" and "Connection Speeds" as follows:



If you're wanting to target wifi traffic from the "parent companies" of the 2 carriers, i.e. VDC and CMC, then you'd select the exact same 2 ISPs as above, but set "Connection Types" and "Connection Speeds" as follows:



If you're wanting to target ALL VN wifi traffic from any ISPs, then just leave the "Internet Service Providers" box at default, and set "Connection Types" and "Connection Speeds" to the screenshot immediately above this sentence.

Hope I haven't made things even more confusing...



Amy

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You'd want to check your lander stats using the split-test calculator:

http://stmforum.com/forum/showthread...Banners-Part-1

....and cut landers as they reach statistical significance.

It's important for your offers to have very similar payouts when you're using them to cut landers to find your best lander. This is because the split-test calculator will assume all conversions to be worth the same. Therefore, the less similar your offer payouts are, the less accurate your cutting decisions will be. Just something to keep in mind for the next time. Once you're down to a winning lander, you can then use it to test as many offers as you like that have all different payouts.

To cut offers, use the calculator described in this post: http://stmforum.com/forum/showthread...211#post289211

Once you've cut down to the best offer and lander, the next step would be to test more offers. Note: When testing more offers in the next round, you'll need to include the best offer from this round of testing - referred to as the "test control" which you'll be aiming to beat.


As was mentioned in my previous post: I really think you should target wifi and carrier traffic in separate camps. Are you running in a geo different than VN now? I'm seeing different carrier names in your screenshot. And what type(s) of traffic is accepted by these new offers in this geo? I'm still not sure how you're wanting your traffic to be filtered in Voluum.


If you're wanting to also "catch" wifi traffic in your rule, try adding "Other" and "Others" - with and without the "s".

But by doing this, the only traffic that would go to YTZ would be carrier/3g/4g traffic from carriers OTHER THAN XX/YY/ZZ. Is this what you're wanting?

I really think you should stick with the basics in the beginning by targeting only traffic that's accepted by your offers. You don't need all this extra headache when you're still learning. Later, you can duplicate the camp and target like you're doing now, run both camps simultaneously to compare profit levels to see which one is better.


Yes! In fact that was the original label in Voluum. They changed it last year, probably to account for whatever odds and ends that are neither carrier nor wifi. But most of it should still be wifi.




Amy

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Basically, your goal is to find a good offer + good lander that will make enough of the traffic profitable for the camp to be worth your while.

What this means is: When you drill down into Offer > Lander > [various traffic segments], you'll need at least one of the bigger traffic segments or several smaller ones to be either profitable, or still have the potential to be profitable (i.e. not enough data to tell yet), for the camp to be worth continue running. A big traffic segment could be for example android/ios, phone/tablet, a big carrier, a major browser, placements giving good profits, etc.

However, keep in mind that you can always test more landers and offers. I like to advise testing lots of landers in the initial round of split-testing, to find a winner, and then use that to test more offers in the second round. In this case, even if the initial round of lander testing has no/little potential of making the camp profitable, you may decide to run at a loss and "tough it out" just to find that winning lander, so you can use that to mass-test offers in the second round to potentially find profits then.

Creating new camps is not recommended at this point, because you're still testing landers and offers so you'd want all the traffic to go into one camp to collect data, instead of making an additional camp which can potentially take traffic away from your original camp to slow down testing. However, if you do see a profitable major segment, then creating a new camp for that may be justified. In that case, you can continue using the original camp to test more offers etc. while the new camp generates some profits.

I can't advise how much $$$ should be run before making a decision on whether to keep running or pull the plug on a camp, because every situation is different. As for conversions in total needed to make sure - that would really depend on the situation too. What I CAN advise, is to cast a wider net, i.e. test more offers and geos, and picking the best to optimize and scale, instead of restricting yourself to a few offers and trying to make a luke-warm camp green. For pop traffic, having to cut placements is a necessity, but there's a difference between using a good offer to identify bad placements, and running a subpar offer and trying to get green by cutting a ton of placements. The latter is rarely satisfying, and chances are you'd be left with a trickle of traffic you can't do anything with. Same goes for cutting any other traffic segments - OSs, devices, carriers, etc.


Cutting landers based on CTR is normally not advised, but if the CTR is so abnormally low that it would take an impossibly high CR to end up with profits, then cutting based on CTR is justified.

Applause on splitting camp into carrier and wifi, and targeting just carriers at the traffic source instead of messing with Voluum rules!

If you're still testing landers, having 6 offers that probably have different payouts may not be the best approach. When using a split-test calculator to evaluate lander stats to decide which to cut, the calculator will assume all conversions to have the same payout. So the more different the payouts are, the less accurate your cutting decision will be.

The easier way would be to use a couple of offers to test landers first, find a winner, then use that to test more offers. Or test offers first and then landers.


Which TS is this? PopAds' traffic estimator will tell you what the average is so you can bid at least slightly above that. For propeller I would bid higher than the first "bend" in the graph to avoid the junk. For zeropark, you won't see estimates for carrier vs. wifi - only averages for all connections, so you'll just have to test different bids to see which one works better (which you'd need to do for any camp sooner or later anyway). But if you're bidding for carrier traffic, I'd say start at at least 2x the overall average. So if the ZP volume chart shows an average of 0.001 then you'd want to bid >0.002 for carrier.


Haha I was just impatient - was aiming to speed up testing by potentially sacrificing more test budget. However, you should test bids sooner or later regardless of testing speed. Perhaps you can do this after the current round of offer/lander split-testing.

I wouldn't worry about individual placements converting differently for your ts-offer-lander combo. When it comes to campaign testing and optimization, we need to mind the 80/20 rule. There are things that HAVE to be accurate because they can make or break your campaign - for example cutting offers and landers accurately. And then there are things we don't need to focus on, such as potential differences in the way different placements react to your offers and landers. Pop traffic is broad appeal traffic consisting of a general audience, so we push broad appeal offers and lander angles at this bunch. If you're wanting to target categories of sites and promote more niche offers that would be another story.

I'd like to see your stats if possible! Offer > Lander > some of the major traffic segments would be a nice start.



Amy

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After re-reading back my posts and checking back my geo volume for my TS - I realized how right you were! There's indeed very little traffic and as you said, very low opportunity costs! Thanks for your tips on $100-200/day traffic costs - Will keep that in mind as a benchmark

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Thank you for your very clear and concise advice! Everything seems a lot more clear to me right now after re-reading through step by step, along with my stats analysis!

Here are my stats:
> I am using GH as geo
> Allowed carriers are MTN, Airtel, Vodafone

P.S I tried to make it as neat and easy to see for you as possible - sorry if it looks very confusing - let me know if there's any way I can make it even easier for people to see and review!

OFFER > LANDERS



Out of the 8 conversions,
LP 2: 6/8
LP 3: 2/8
LP 4: Super super super low CTR (I cut it already)

OFFER > LANDER > OS


All 8/8 conversions made by Android
And iOS stats are all similar to these stats... visits 3, clicks 0

OFFER > LANDER > DEVICE



Mobile Phone: 7/8 conversions (5 conv by LP 2 and 2 conv by LP 3)
Tablet: 1/8 conversions (All by LP 2)

OFFER > LANDER > MOBILE CARRIER



There's no WIFI stats here at all - I think because of my stupid Rules and my own confusion that led all the wifi (regardless of carrier/ISP) to YTZ (I have cut the YTZ Rules separation for now, as per your advice, till I master the fundamentals! Thanks for that )

All conversions are made by either Airtel or MTN, and 0 by Vodafone

This is my first time going so in depth into the Voluum report digging, so let me know if I'm doing anything wrong - or is there anything to improve on!

While waiting yesterday, I launched another 2 campaigns, same geo, same TS, split into Wifi and 3g campaigns - going to check the results now and update asap!

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Nice screenshots thanks very much for posting them!

Landers - it looks like you already have a winner - please plug numbers into the split-test calculator to make sure.

OS - nothing to optimize there - all your traffic is Android.

Device - nothing to optimize yet - most of the traffic is phone.

Carriers - again nothing to optimize yet.

(BTW the reason why Vodafone hasn't made any conversions may not mean anything, because so little traffic has been sent to date. Same goes for tablets for device type and IOS for OS - people may think "hey let's cut that it's not converting" and failing to see that it hasn't received enough traffic to have a chance to convert yet.)

The most important thing we're looking for when drilling down into these stats, is how likely it will be for at least one major traffic segment to be making enough money to justify your running the camp. And as we can see, there are green segments in the screenshots, so you should definitely keep running this camp to continue cutting down to best lander and offer, and then continue to test more offers.

The traffic volume isn't there, but I wouldn't worry about that for now, as you're learning. It's just as well that there isn't a whole lot of traffic, or you could be paying more money to learn the same lessons.

Plus, you can try scaling to other traffic sources that have more traffic for these carriers. Don't quote me but I seem to remember there being more traffic on propeller and zeropark than on popads for these carriers. PopAds' traffic quality is great, so you're likely saving money by doing your testing there and then scaling the best offers and landers to other sources.

Looking forward to seeing more stats! And don't forget to cut that lander when it's ready. After that, try to test as many offers as you can find for this vertical and geo.



Amy

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Here's what I did, as said in the last post, I created 2 new campaigns -
> 1 for 3G (Sent $10 to test this) used the formula AVG PAYOUT X NO OF LANDERS X NO OF OFFERS X 3
> 1 for Wifi (Sent $5 to test this) just randomly decided to divide 3G budget by 2, because I was bidding at lower CPM

And then saw my total lander stats
Note: I did not drill these stats down into anything, just purely took "Lander" stats



Then keyed in the values in https://www.peakconversion.com/2012/...al-calculator/ as per Amy's thread she recommended



Took the winner of the 3, Continued following the process on the thread and compared the best lander against each separate one


Since this is 10% for LP3, the verdict is to cut LP 3


Since this is less than 10% for LP4, the verdict is to cut LP 4

Winner: LP 2

Questions:
> When you say "Impressions" for pops, you mean Visits to the landers right? (The reason I'm asking is because there's a "impressions" column and a "visits" column in Voluum, but it always states 0 for my results



> And for LP 4, I want to send more visits to it to test more, but the CTR is really too low (With a 2.8% CTR, compared to the others which are over 50%, is there any point testing further? Since the results of peakconversion has came out)

> I've did some extra reading, and is there a difference between this method of testing via peakconversion VS caurmen's https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...op-Running-Ads

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Update:

> Cut all landers and left 1 as my control
> Added 6 more offers into the rotation (total 12 offers now)
> Added $10 to each campaign to test and get more results

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Have you scaled this camp to at least all the biggest pop sources? If not, that's what I would suggest doing first. Focus on testing bids and cutting placements on each new source.

Regarding running staggered bid camps together - instead of theorizing, why not just run it that way for a day and compare? Run it that way for a full 24 hours and see if your daily profits are more/less than your average before. In the end, your total daily profits is the metric you're aiming to maximize.

You can continue to cut placements in each camp as well.

Once you're done playing with that, try setting up higher-frequency camps at lower bids.

Again, every time you make a change or start one or more new camps to monetize this offer, keep an eye on your total daily profits. If it goes down, you'd know to undo the last change.

Also: I don't remember whether your camp is using a lander or if you're direct-linking, and what type of offer it is that you're running. Is there a chance you could scale this to mobile display? (Lander compliance being the main consideration unless you're planning on cloaking.)



Amy

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