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Winning money before 2017 starts. (48)

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Hello,

After reading STM and trying to learn as much as I can, I have decided to launch my first campaign.
For now, I am using a sweepstakes offer from clickdealer and PopCash is my traffic source.
I did set up two different campaigns in Voluum, one for Lander A and the other one for Lander B, and added the Voluum links to the .html file of the landers.

Then, on Popcash, I added the landers URLs, and set the budget to 10$ with a 0.001$ bid (1$ per 1000 popunders), I ran two times 10$ campaigns there with the two different landers. I let the budget go to 0 and I noticed on Clickdealer that I got 3 conversions.

https://gyazo.com/516ea5e4bd548bb4bae3ebff4821f3bd

However in voluum, I don't see those conversions, and click is at 0. (I suppose clicks on clickdealer are visits in voluum?).
https://gyazo.com/f71640ca545bbbbd23e0199a41d6fb50

So there is probably a mistake in the tracking. I did take the postback URL of my voluum that looks like this:
https://gyazo.com/aca33b92411efdb7821ea3dea369216e

to set it up on clickdealer, and here is how it looks like: http://tv8uv.voluumtrk2.com/postback?cid=#s2#

I also ran a first campaign with that same offer and made 4 conversions, however I had the same problem. At that time I forgot to set up the postback URL so I thought the problem was coming from there. But now that I did set it up, I still have that problem where the conversions that appear on clickdealer aren't appearing in my voluum.
Hopefully you guys can help me to solve this problem. And having conversions already is exciting!

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Congratulations to your first campaign and also first conversions from, it must be a great feeling to get those right off the bat!

Regarding your tracking problem, the postback look fine to me (however I recommend to add payout as well, so it will be automatically send to Voluum and will reflect future offer payout changes).

So you can edit it as follows:

http://tv8uv.voluumtrk2.com/postback...payout=#price#

Set this url in the "Testing & Tracking" tab of the offer under the "Postback URL (Server Pixel):"

HOWEVER, the part you probably messed up is the offer in the Voluum.

You have to include {clickid} in the s2 parameter, here is an example:

http://c.cldrm.com/?a=123&c=123&s1={trafficsource.id}&s2={clickid}

What will happen is that Voluum will generate and send a unique Click ID to Clickdealer.
Once there is a conversion, Clickdealer will send back the postback to Voluum with the Click ID.
Voluum will match it in their database and show you the conversion.

Let me know if it helped and keep it up with your follow along!

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Awesome erik, your help means a lot to me!

I realized that in Voluum>traffic sources>popcash, I did not set up a postback URL there, should I?
https://gyazo.com/d0fe76f9617984a0c43c99e3d46b2ecc

Edit: By the way, read the few posts of your blog, where do you live in Thailand? I am in Chiang Mai!

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No, that's not needed. That postback you would use if you wanted to send conversions to the traffic source (some of them have this option).

Oh, cool, I actually never been on north of Thailand, it's still on my list. I'm currently based in Hua Hin.

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So I have modified my offer URL into Voluum so it looks like this:
https://gyazo.com/288a132f0b059d7093f3c6f877afee70

Obviously, the campaign URL changed and so I changed it into my lander as well.

My postback URL on clickdealer now looks like this:
https://gyazo.com/596989e33b87c4dd578e2fad86c7007d

So I re-launched a campaign on clickdealer, made it spend a small part of the budget and paused it. On clickdealer I have 1064 clicks and 3 conversions. However on Voluum, I have 160 views, 0 click, 0 conversions (And notice that the graphic shows more than 160 views with the purple line).
Voluum screenshot:
https://gyazo.com/7cf39f29be9eada331de62560a550317
Clickdealer screenshot:
https://gyazo.com/5303b14deb2a30648b9fe8fb42cca9c7

Again, a problem in the tracking somewhere, I have followed your advice erik (I think?!), I will try to find out by myself where did I make a mistake, but any help appreciated of course

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However, when I go into Voluum>conversions or connection or device types, etc ... I do see my conversions there and some informations, so I really don't get why it doesn't show in the dashboard and the campaigns tab!

Conversions tab:
https://gyazo.com/2df15d21c1259164433e9fa0e91d76e8

Device type tab:
https://gyazo.com/1bd49dc561f0cd77c605b9527c322692

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Hey,

one thing is that Voluum is sometime buggy and it not shows conversions immediately. Or it show different number on the campaigns tab and different in each campaigns reports. But it's just a few minutes lag, so it should show properly after a while.
As you can see the conversions in the conversions tab the setup should be okay, I cannot see any problem on your screenshots as well.

It's still not showed up? In that case I would try to send these over to the Voluum support to investigate this issue as I do not see anything wrong in your setup at this moment.

Let me know once you proceed on this.

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Hi Erik, yes the statistics are still not appearing into the dashboard and campaign tabs.
Following your advice I just contacted Voluum, hopefully I can get answer soon. Will keep you updated!

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Hello banana123

We need to solve your tracking problem before we can move further. Did you hear back from Voluum support? As Erik told you, it's pretty normal to see delays in stats, but that should go away after a few minutes. You can also try the obvious stuff like testing a different browser or deleting cache, these things can mess with a lot of things.

There is one thing I wanted to point out, I want to make sure that you setup the campaigns in the right way, since you wrote that you added "lander urls" to the traffic source.

In Voluum you setup offers, thats where you put the url from clickdealer. Then you setup landers in voluum, thats where you put the lander urls. And then you setup campaing in voluum, you define the lander and offer for it and it creates the campaign url for you. Then you take this campaign url and add that to the traffic source. You understand this, right?

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I didn't understand this before, but I do now, Thanks!

The only part I'm missing is what url to add to the html of my landers.

I was adding the lander url to the traffic source, and the campaign url from Voluum to the html.

But now I see we add the campaign url to the traffic source. Which url do we add to the lander code?

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You add the /click url. So it would be www.ba252q.voluumtrk.com/click or something like that that goes into the lander HTML. When you run it through the campaign in Voluum, it will see what offers you selected and automatically server that offer.

You can finding the link by clicking the Gear in the top right, then clicking setup. You will see the first link - Click URL. This is what you place unless you have a choice of multiple offers on the lander.

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Exactly, just replace the part before voluumtrk.com with your own variable that you will find in the setup as xesturgy pointed out for you. It's the same url for all landing pages, Voluum will handle everything else in the background.

I would also recommend to use your custom tracking domain - register some generic domain like mytrackingdomain.com or whatever and CNAME it to voluum - check "domains" under the setup section in voluum for more details.

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Awesome guys, thanks! This helped me to find what mistake I was doing, putting the wrong link into my .html files, what a donkey I am!!

Conversions filtered by landers:
https://gyazo.com/76bc030266cc467a453f9f151475a558

Conversions filtered by devices:
https://gyazo.com/65fee70ce081f317dc77ec42ba1a650b

Since yesterday, I ran 2 different campaigns on PopCash (10$ budget*2, and tested two different bid, 0.001 and 0.0015, with similar results).
I did 2 screenshots of my landers results and conversions by device types
I do believe having 4 conversions is too small of a sample size to make a decision, but having 4 conversions on tablets (this was very surprising!), I kinda want to run the traffic on tablets only.
Also, it seems that the first lander I am using might be slightly better since the CTR is huge comparing to the other ones.
So from here, should I make different landers using the design of my lander 1? Or is too early to say and I should run more traffic using those 4 landers?

My last question concern the Lander 4, it has 1499 visits, but only 4 clicks, something must be wrong there, but I can't see what.

Have a great day !

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You are right, 4 conversions is not much, but yes, you can focus on tablets with this offer. You are still in the learning phase so you can as well limit your loses by focusing on a smaller target group (tablet users). It's also possible that you have hit an offer that works better with tablets.

The LP numbers look weird for sure, unfortunately Im not able to tell you what is wrong with them, you have to find the problem yourself - when you personally load the campaign with that lander and click through it, is the click recorded and does it send you where it should?

The LP clicks on the other 3 are pretty erratic too, all the way from 80 to 1000 with the same amount of impressions. Are these landers that different? Are there any backbutton or timed redirects on the LPs?
Right now the leads are distributed evenly across the LPs so do not try to pick a winner yet, CTR is a factor to watch but ROI is the most important.

I see you have one conversion with a directlink and it didn't take all that impressions - make sure to split test directlinks VS LPs too. Directlink can work better sometimes.

I would also recommend to get more offers and split test them too.

Keep me posted

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So I've ran multiple $10 campaigns on 3 different POP sources. At this point I'd like to figure out how much I should be spending per source/lander/offer before I decide to make a cut or continue with it.

Or perhaps I should be cutting zones after a certain sample size?

Are there any "rules of thumb" for when to cut a landing page, traffic source, offer, etc?

I feel like I should figure this out before I launch any more campaigns.

Thanks!

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Here you go:

http://stmforum.com/forum/showthread...ferent-Payouts
http://stmforum.com/forum/showthread...-Banners-Part-

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Thanks a lot Caurmen.

Ok, so I just launched another campaign on popads. Testing 3 offers in France (1 from yepads et and 2 from clickdealer) with the best lander i have for now ( i will test 2 versions of it) Set up the bid at $2 per 1000 with a 15 $ budget (offers have an avg payout of 50cents)

I also set up the monetizer script in the html file of my landers (to get it redirected to an other offer when the user click the back button) Anyone have any experience with this? Seems like I cant test it without actually launching a campaign.

Waiting to get some datas to share. The plan is to follow this thread to optimize my ROI

http://stmforum.com/forum/showthread...on-pop-traffic

And post very often to get insights from you guys as well. For now i just messaged all my AM to know what are the top geos to run my sweeps.

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Results from yesterdays campaign have been pretty poor. The original lander (the one i call 'facebook POPUP'), ripped from adplexity and translated got only 2 conversions. The other version performed poorly ( edited without popup and even a more agressive headline) with 0 conversion.

I figured id just post the results of all my campaigns that I have been launching in FR and ask you guys what you think about the datas.. I feel a bit stuck and not sure what to optimize? Maybe focus and test more offers.

This is by landers:

https://gyazo.com/240b8964c592da8f1dfdd6e99740c120

(the 2even landers are actually in the red as well , spent around 10 dollars to test them, got a few conversions in the offer networks, but i made a mistake with the postback url, so Voluum didnt track my conversions)

From those stats I think the lander facebook POPUP could be a winner, but I think I must test plenty of offers to see if i can come up as close as a breaken ROI as possible, then optimize the lander. What do you guys think?Keep this lander and test a ton of offers in FR/BE across 2/3 traffic sources?

Out all the conversions I got, only one came from mobile phone, the large majority comes from tablets. The people in my mastermind group had the same results. Time to run only on tablets? Or its still too early, and its still very offer dependent and I should keep on testing as wide as possible for now?

https://gyazo.com/cfa0f22d199b3ee72fcd50f5b4c5ce3d


Hope I'm making sense, ahah I feel a bit stuck right now. Any advice from you guys is really appreciated. There's a bunch to do after ripping/editing landers and lauching the first campaigns.

Here are all my campaigns so far (against please dont mind the 2 campaigns that are even, they should be in red, I will edit the cost. Also 2 people from my mastermind got very similar results)

https://gyazo.com/0909725419b74a8b4599e5be79df6880

Should I quit FR and focus on an easier geo for sweeps? Too early to say anything?

Thanks!

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It's really too early to make any big decision, but you can still do some.

For example, in case you see better results with tablets, then focus on them. Nobody says you MUST run mobile phones too. Your goal now is to figure this whole thing out and get a profitable campaign, if it's gonna happen with tablet traffic, then so be it This will also allow you to spend more on this traffic and still spend the same daily as before. By having more data for tablets, you will also be able to optimize everything faster - you will see poor placements faster, poor offers too ...

I would say you need to test more landers and offers, you need to find the right combination.

Have you ran some kind of bot test too? There could be placements with too many bots that are just draining your budget.

I'm not into sweeps all that much right now, so not sure how hard FR is as a GEO for this vertical... but yes, generally speaking, tier 1 GEOs can be harder to crack. People usually start in GEOs like thailand, india, brazil ... asia, latam, africa. But you are getting conversions, so it's not a lost cause. I would try some more if I was in your shoes.

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Hey Banana, I just moved this week from Chiang Mai to Bangkok, we just missed each other! Let me know when you are visiting Bangkok so we can meet up. Regarding your campaigns, France is doable but you do have a lot of competition from offers with higher payouts. I know FR CC submits are being pushed a lot on the sources you are using. This will get your traffic prizes up since people are able to bid more if they get the CC submits to work, take that into consideration. Furthermore I wouldn't suggest that you try CC submits yourself yet.

I am curious which offers you are running exactly. It might be good to get a local player in the mix. Meaning, a smaller, local advertiser. They tend to have better CR's and sponsors.

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thanks to both of you. Appreciate your insights

@gotzha Ill add you on skype

So I decided to focus on 2 other geos. The first one i will start by testing 2 offers , using 2 landers per offer.

I will launch and test the 2 offers as soon as I get approved by my AM, hopefully by tomorrow. I think my landers are pretty solid and should give me some interesting datas.

I will launch in the other geo early next week as I am still waiting on the guy doing the translation. I have 4 offers in this geo and will prolly test 4 landers.

I spent a lot of time ripping and working on my landers today and I am a bit annoyed that I couldn't launch a campaign and gather some datas. But I guess I have a plan from now on, I have landers and I am ready to go.

Will keep you posted.

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Any results?

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The problem is the AID=1, aid is you affiliate ID, so you have been sending traffic to their affiliate with ID 1, that's why you don't see anything in your stats. You need to replace it with your affiliate ID, yuo should be able to find it once you login to their admin. Not sure why they would tell you to use aid=1 when it obviously nonsense.

Let me know if this was the issue, but I'm pretty sure that's where the problem is.

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Yes that's what I was thinking. Every affiliate will have the same aid for this offer. Problem is my tracking link in mpire:

http://t.mpire.nxus.mobi/?aid=706343&cid=1009996

Campaign is not available. (obv verified with the vpn on) It only works with the aid=1.

I guess the best thing is to give up the 2 offers in this network for now and focus on the 4 offers I have for yepads.

Thanks matuloo, will now work on a few more landers and launch to finally get some datas asap!!

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What kind of offer is this? I would say you simply can't match the required targeting so you are redirected to some place else. All it takes is for them to have some anon proxy detection and you will not be able to see the offer through a VPN. Looks like the have the aid=1 reserved to bypass the redirection, but that doesn't mean you should be sending traffic to it. I am also pretty sure that the offers work just fine for traffic that is matching the required targeting so you don't need to give up on them.

NEVER change parameters like this in your links. Having your affiliate ID set properly is absolutely CRUCIAL.

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First of all, stop buying desktop traffic for this. These sweeps usually work better with smartphone traffic, at least such was my experience. What are the targeting requirements of the offer actually, to they want desktop traffic at all?

The "facebook" LP has way higher CTR, is there some redirect script in place?

I don't like the payout of the offer, $0.5 is pretty low for an EU GEO, you definitely need to look for more offers.

Since the desktop traffic was bulk of the hits you got, you can't really optimize much now, you need more data.

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Quick update. I decided to shake things up a bit. I am going to mass test offers in 3 geos. For now I have 7 offers in one geo, 8 in the second one and 16 in another one across 4 offer networks. Same vertical. Avg payout is $1 or less. 2/3 landers. Budget is around $200 for this initial testing. Thoughts? I am following the formula in this thread:

http://stmforum.com/forum/showthread...able-Campaigns

Hopefully I can launch within 3 days and gather some datas and maybe find some offers or combo offers + landers winners and ask feedback from there.

Any thoughts on the process? Since I am still pretty new this is scary and I don't want to throw money out of the window.. 16 offers might be too much?

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The more offers you test, the higher chance you find a winner. I would just pull the trigger and run it!

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16 offers is a lot indeed, but it all goes down to how much YOU are able to handle. We always recommend to start with a few, then add more as you see fit. As xeturgy said above, the more you test, the bigger chance of hitting something that works. I'm not sure if $200 will be enough for this, I assume you also have several landers in rotation so the amount of possible funnels will be pretty large. On the other hand, some offers/LPs will probably flip pretty early so you should be able to cut some very fast.

I say go for it if you believe you can handle that much data. Looking forward to the outcome

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Frustrated right now. Launched all the campaigns, spent a lot of time splitting them, ripping, cleaning all the landers. I launched in India where i had 5 antivirus offers that I splitted into 3 campaigns.1 campaign got like 4500 clicks with a ridiculous CTR (like 65pct). I must have forgotten to clean a script somewhere. Anyhow, other 2 campaigns got very very little traffic so I paused them. (my bid was like $2, avg suggested bid was $7..... had no clue it was this expensive and I still wonder why it is that high)

I also launched like 10 campaigns in kenya (14 antivirus offers and 3 landers as well) I paused them as well, seeing very very very little traffic coming in (at this rate I would need to wait like 20 days to get 1000 impressions)
Huge avg bid as well in kenya ( i thought it had little competition damit!)

Obviously 0 conversions, but I don't mind. Feeling a bit low right now because I still have very very very little datas to work with (that high avg bid was very very unexpected) I thought I would get a bunch and could prolly work with one offer, or discover a lp that could be optimised and used to test multiple offers in different geos.

So, a friend of mine told me to stay away from the AV in the beginning, just focus on sweeps because it is easier to convert. Thoughts? I will read a bunch of threads right now and will prolly limit myself at 5 offers in 3 geos with 2/3 landers.No more. Prolly not gonna do antivirus installs as well for the moment.

Still a lot to learn, everyday I feel like giving up because let's face it, it's hard. But everyday I remind myself that pushing through is going to make the difference. With my masterminds group, this forum and a few other resources, I will probably understand that whole process and be in the green soon. Hopefully sooner rather than later especially when you see guys being profitable really quickly. Anyway, sorry for the small rant.

Off to reading some threads now.

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Calm down, we are all been at the same point before.

Maybe step out for a few days, refresh your mind and energy and try again, don't give up!

I would personally suggest you to try some of the Asian countries (lower payouts) or Eastern European countries (mid payouts).
India should be good as well, but from my experience and what I hear adult offers works better in that geo than sweeps/av.

Regarding AV vs sweeps. Both convert well if you have a GOOD offer.

That is crucial.

You simply must take offers from different advertisers and split test them, each can behave differently.

Another thing is that you also must match your traffic source with your vertical.

On some sources AV works simply better than sweeps and vice versa.

Take care and good luck on your journey!

Erik

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thanks erik for the kind words.

sorry for the lack of update. I have been reading a lot, relaxing and mainly working on finding a few more geos to do sweeps. Ripped some landers as well.

So I just launched 5 more campaigns on a new geo on popads. 7 offers, 3 landers with a decent budget for each. Followed the basic formula (avg payout)*(number of offers)*(number of landers)*3/4 or 5.

I am still super confused. On most of my campaigns I bid $1/$1.5 as it is a country in africa. Most of my offers pay me $1.6 and 2 offers have a low payout of $0.16.

I had to narrow down carriers for a few offers, remove adult, exclude 1am to 6am etc. and obviously popads tells me that I will get no impression, or like 1000 impressions per day. Should I move to another traffic source? I can't really higher my bid because the payouts of my offers aren't that high. But I can't really target well on propellerads for example.

Also for my sweeps, I remove adult almost all the time even if it is not specified. I just think people who watch porn won't be very interested in an iphone or whatever I offer Thoughts? Most of offers don't accept adult traffic anyway..

That's about it for now, really confused about these few things, any help would be greatly appreciated as I want to start posting screenshots of a bunch of stats and analyse them asap!

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I also stumbled upon this very good post:

My approach is wilder.. I select a geo, go on adpexity, rip 3 landers and apply for all the offers I can find. So basically I don't know if I have good converting landers, and I don't know if I have good converting offers.
Having 2/3 offers with 5 landers would be way easier as I could find a good converting lp first, and then use it to test all the offers.

By the way, where can I find the peakconversion slit test calculator to cut landers?

Looks like I will need to pause all my campaigns, start ripping more landers and narrowing down to 2/3 offers.

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an update:

I let my campaigns running anyway since it's not costing me much right now and traffic is coming really slowly (been running for like 2 days). A few conversions:



Don't know what to make of it yet, not enough datas. Will see.

Plan now is to launch 2 offers that my am recommended me with at least 5 landers and see which one performs the best.
Question: One of the two offers target specifically 3 carreers, when i prepare my popads campaign, I can only target 1 (other 2 are not there) and popads estimates that I will receive less than 1k impression a day. When i try on propeller, I will have much more impressions, but obviously I can't target the carreers.. what should I do? Give up the offer? Sucks because it was a recommended one.. Find another traffic source where I can target these carreers? What if I run broad on propellerads, get a few conversions, I can't optimise/scale it because I might not get paid sinceI haven't targeted specifically these carreers but went broad.

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Let me clear some of your confusion :

If you send traffic that is not matching the carrier targeting, you will not get conversions. Once the conversions are there, they are ok.

A lot of POP traffic is adult, whether you opt in to receive it or now, it's the way it is Many people push the envelope here a bit and send adult traffic even to offers that don't accept it. The choice is yours.

Estimates are just estimates, with every source, always test yourself to see what reality brings.

Sometimes higher bid brings better traffic, this is another thing you need to test. Low payout offers also convert better than high payout offers... don't make assumptions, test! Some food for thought : http://stmforum.com/forum/showthread...you-more-money

This is a problem yes, and it would be good to solve at least one of the unknowns here - it's also true it would be better to find winning LPs first and then trying to mass test offers. It will cut down the costs of testing a lot. But you also need a solid offer or two, otherwise the test will be worthless. The only advice I can give you, is to sacrifice some $ and test 5 or so offers and find 2 that give you conversions with the LPs you have now. Then start mass testing LPs with these "winners".

I'm sure Erik will stop by with more advice too.

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Ok so I have been busy running my things, especially my winning offers.. improving my landers and had some steady xx$ / days already! Considering it is my second month doing this, I am very very happy. Overall i am slightly up this month thanks to monetizer as well.

I relaunched my winning offers today, faitly optimized (for my level) and had 0 conversions so far (while I averaged 20/30 a day). I red a post of mr green saying that sweepstakes offers (iphone etc) tend to die at the end of the month. Could it be the case? What does that mean for me? take 10 days off and start running in the beginning of the month? Or still continue testing? I am currently running in one geo, running on popads and propeller and I tried to find decent other traffic sources .

I tried adcash, but their min bid is quite high, like $2.6 now and had fairly poor results there.. I tested popcash as well and since I cannot target carriers there, I had bad results as well. I know you can set rules in Voluum etc, can someone please link me a thread to how I can do that?
I also tried popmyads, but their min cost per mille is 4$ for my geo, so I didnt even bother trying there. I am going to test go2mobi as well, but I am only doing popunders right now, not banners.

Anyway thats where I am at today, I need your insights on my questions!

Thanks

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Looks like your are finally learning how to get this to work. Good job on not giving up too soon.

Just a heads up, most of the people on STM will be in Bangkok for the next several days at the Affiliate World Asia conference, so you may not get much feedback during this time, since it is a very busy period for affiliates.

However hang in there ... Or if you can afford it, try to make it out on the next flight to Bangkok and join for the conference!

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looks like it is back! is this something that happens often? offers being randomly down?

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cmdeal: yes it's okay, I will never give up that's for sure, especially now that I can see the potential. All of my newbish questions are somewhere in this forum anyway. Just have to dig!

Thanks for the heads up, I am in chiang mai, however I won't be in BKK for AWA. I will be in the next one hopefully.

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What??? You are in Thailand already?

Seriously, in that case, it would be crime not to attend AWA.

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Offers can get pulled from a number of reasons, but this looks like a tech problem.

Other than that, they can go down when : cap is reached, change in targeting or flow, maintenance, when they reach budget ...

Congrats on your progress btw, nice to see some green in your camps!

Matej

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Test carrier only to begin with, if you see traction you can then setup a new camp for wifi.

Don't fall in the trap of trying to make bad camps work out of frustration / desperation. It's not worth the time with pop camps.

Your original approach is very good. Keep mass testing and focus on the initial winners. It might however be worth expanding your initial testing on 2-3 traffic sources. There are big differences between them. Each traffic source has some good and some bad GEOs. If something does not work on propeller, it could work perfectly fine on exo or popads.

Further you can expand your testing on some new GEOs. Test 50-100 more new offers and you will find that new winner.

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no post back url for popcash

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You've already been getting advice from the best, so I don't want to meddle. But since you've PMed to ask for input, I'll quickly sneak in here and make one post.

Try drilling down into several levels: Offers > OS > Browser to see what the ROI is for the best segment for that particular offer. If you're only running that one offer in the camp, drill down to Device > OS > Browser.

If you see green, you can try to play with the bid. But do make sure there's enough traffic volume from that one segment for the camp to be worth your while in running it. You're shooting for xxx/day not 0.xx/day.


A very good strategy - I would suggest sticking to this, and fine-tuning the nitty-gritty as you're aiming to do right now.


Depends on your offers. If your offers accept both wifi and carrier, and only have a single conversion flow, then definitely just target wifi+carrier in the same camp, bid appropriately for wifi which will get you a bit of carrier traffic anyways. Then if you see carrier converting well then split that off into a separate camp. Chances are if the offer converts well for carrier it would convert well for wifi as well (and if it doesn't convert well for wifi then it probably won't convert for carrier either).

However - if you're mass-testing offers and some of them are carrier-billing offers that have simple conversion flows like 1/2-click flows, then they would definitely be worth testing in separate camps where you target carrier traffic, or even target a separate carrier in each. That way you can bid appropriately for carrier traffic (which as you know is more expensive). Some offers that accept both wifi and carrier traffic, will have a different conversion flow for each traffic type, e.g. pin/sms for wifi and 1/2-click for carrier. Those would fall into this category also.

When you have 1/2-click flow offers among the batch of offers you're mass-testing, it would be good to set up a camp for wifi, and separate camps for each major carrier. Then within each camp you could set up Voluum rules for OSs to take care of different OS requirements for the various offers. That way you're nice and organized (and SANE!), and you're able to bid appropriately for each type of traffic.


I understand the dilemma. Yup. All too well in fact.

The main question, almost always, is "my campaign is performing at -xx%ROI - is it possible / worth it to optimize it to green?"

The answer will depend on 2 things:

1)How much room there still is for optimization. If you've already tested 10 landers and running on the winner, then no room there. If you've only tested a couple of offers and there are lots more on the market, then there's HUGE room for improvement! If you're already only targeting Android phones for CarrierX, then not much room for increasing ROI through changing your targeting. If you're running on a big source that you KNOW has lots of placements with mixed quality, and you haven't started cutting yet, then there's room for improvement there as well. You get the idea.

2)How much traffic is available. Specifically, how much traffic will STILL be available after you either cut unprofitable segments, or only target the profitable segments? You'll get a good idea on that just from drilling down several levels into your stats. And don't just judge based on your current traffic source. If there's a ton of traffic available for your targeting on all the major pop sources collectively, then continue running traffic to identify segments to cut, then scale. However, if there's not much traffic available in the first place, then you don't have the luxury of cutting much - if an offer isn't profitable from the get-go then there's little point in running it further.

(One important thing to note here though: Spending money to identify (un)profitable traffic segments and then scaling is good, because you only need to spend that money once. Spending money to cut a ton of placements to get green is not, because chances are you'd need to spend similar money at every traffic source you scale to.)

So for ID - there's certainly a lot of traffic available. If you're targeting wifi or even one of the big carriers, then it would be possible to optimize from -50%ROI to green. And considering how the traffic is cheaper and the payout is low, it won't take as much money to optimize this camp compared to some of the ones you were running before, i.e. AU/NZ.

Having said that, I would HIGHLY recommend that you lock down your funnel first, i.e. by testing more offers and landers. Testing bids etc. as you've suggested is always good. You could do this even now, before testing additional offers. Note that 10 offers is nothing. Test 20, or 30, or 50+. That's another good thing with low-payout offers: You can test a shit ton without breaking the bank. So take advantage of this!


You're definitely on the right track with your approach. Stick to cheaper geos that have lower payout offers, bulid up your cashflow and confidence, then expand into more expensive geos with higher payout offers.

Don't dwell on past winners. If you can do it once you can absolutely do it again, and you will. Close your eyes for a minute and think about ALL the offers that are available out there, right now, that could be making profits for you. I'm serious. Visualization can help a ton. Most people give action way more credit than it deserves, when it's mostly your expectations that are shaping reality.

All the major pop sources have an abundance of ID traffic. If your offer accepts wifi, try mediahub - they had a really big publisher that had a ton of traffic, don't know about now but you can set up a camp to find out.

You can go identify a few other geos that have high volumes of cheap traffic and lots of low payout offers, then compile a big list of offers for them, and start testing away. There's no way you won't find a gem in there somewhere!

Now go! Sending you off with a bout of positive energy and all my well wishes....




Amy

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Two main reasons for a campaign to die:

- Your offer is not good enough anymore. Even slight changes on the backend from the advertiser and the party is over. Nothing you can do besides testing more new offers. Doing nothing is not a viable strategy. You either need to test new offers or pause the camps.

- Change in the market place. You got outbid and lost position. Or you lost major placements. That would go in hand with a drop in traffic. Easy to spot and fix.

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Also I might be a bit lazy with my landers. I just have one that is converting very well and I don't bother testing others in my 2 winning geos, which might be a mistake I think.
When I test other geos I always make sure to rotate at least 4/5+ landers and usually my winning one converts usually the best in that other GEO too.

I have a question regarding angles.. I use the same angle since the beginning ( you are the winner blablabla, and it has questions and testimonals)
Not sure what angle to try ( I tried the IQ quizz and it wasn't good) I changed the questions a bit, but trying to come up with a winning angle to a broad audience is hard! I think I will do some research on my GEO with alexa and see what is trending and try to create a variation of my LP with that angle, good idea? Im an idiot for not doing it earlier?

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Excellent - some green! Great progress you're making here!

As always, test more landers and offers first (unless you've already done so).

Picture a machine that has big dials for making big changes in the settings, and small dials for making changes in smaller increments.

The big dials would be your offers and landers (especially offers), and the small dials stuff like placements and other campaign targeting options.

This is a generalization, but it holds true in most situations.

Aim to make big increases in ROI by testing offers and landers first, and THEN cut all the traffic that isn't profitable even for your best offer+lander.

You can still cut the bigger and money-sucking placements while testing offers and landers, but try not to cut too much traffic because you do need it for the testing.

I've looked at your stats - thanks for the screenshots! As of now nothing's standing out yet.

A bigger picture though: How long a period do these stats span? A day? If so the volumes are too low. It's perfect for a practice camp, and provides a good opportunity for you to practice testing and optimizing. If you feel that you've had enough practice, and want to go after more substantial profits, seek out carriers that have the traffic volume FIRST, and THEN find offers for those carriers.

Set up a worldwide camp (targeting all geos), set "Connection speed" and "Connection Type" to cellular/carrier, and $20's worth of traffic and you'll see which carriers have the most traffic. Better, run $5-10 first, pause the high-volume geos, then run another $5-10, pause more geos etc. You can direct the traffic to a monetizing service like afflow, or a smartlink of an aff network you like, and maybe make a bit of that money back.

You could even repeat this testing on all traffic sources, to see which traffic source has the most traffic for any specific carrier.


You can test other carriers too, yes - and see if there's more volume.


This is popads correct? It has good quality traffic, so if you don't mind having to wait for stuff to reach stat sig, you can test here for cheaper, then scale the winning combos to other sources.

However, before you even start the testing here, make sure there IS more traffic on other sources first!


Actually, in some verticals, you'll often see the same particular angle do well in multiple geos (as you've observed too!)

So I do what you do as well - I'd test a few geos with different landers first, find one that converts well across all geos, and then just use that one (or the top 2) lander(s) to mass-test offers for all geos.

Between the lander and the offer, the lander is less important, although you'd still need a decent one for sure. The offer will usually have greater impact on your campaign overall. You can cut corners with landers, but definitely test as many offers as you could.


Unless you have a good way of keeping your landers out of spy tools, your original design, that you may have spent hours to research and brainstorm and code, will get ripped an hour after you start running it. And the more your lander looks significantly different than all the others, the faster it'll get ripped, and by more people.

So either test more ripped landers and then test more offers, or test lander variations like you said. If you've tested enough ripped landers already, you'll know which lander theme is working well. So you can take that and just change up the ad text. I'm all for bouncing angle ideas around - so hit me with them and if I've tested them before I'll tell you if they're good or not.

Kudos on striving to be a true marketer!


So to summarize:

1)Seek out where all the traffic volume is first, then do testing there.

2)Test landers and offers (ESPECIALLY offers!) first to optimize your funnel, and then fine-tune by cutting any traffic that remains unprofitable in spite of the best combo.

3)Consider using popads for testing, and other sources for scaling. (That is there's still somewhat decent volume on popads so you're not having to wait forever for testing to finish.)


For your current camps: Look on other sources to see if there's more traffic. If so, you can either test more landers and offers elsewhere, or continue to use popads to test. Once you have a winning offer+lander combo, scale to those other sources.

If there's not much traffic for your target carrier anywhere, then don't bother to continue testing. At least not while targeting pop.



Amy

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thanks Amy, tons of good insights..

I am using Propeller for my tests for most of my GEOs. Volume on popads looks quite low for my 2 winning GEOs.

I just created a whitelist camp for the first offer (the green one right of the bat)

I used your tool and took IDs that have a 80 pct chance min to give me 100% ROI+ ( those IDs are from a previous ultra green offer in that GEO that was making me money and the payout was $0.3, my current offer is making me $1.45.. So even though the payout is different, in theory these should be good placements anyway..)

And I removed these good IDs from my mid campaign and let it run. On top of that I have a low bid, a high bid and a WIFI camp.
A friend of mine suggered to try staggered bids for the whitelist campaign.. Thoughts? I am a bit frustrated with the whitelist as it never really worked from me yet.. but I KNOW I am on the right track and good whitelists are what I need to have stable green days.

Basically I am following what is said in this post:

https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...hlight=bigeasy

Great post, even though I haven't fully grasped everything yet, I will apply those concepts and hopefully reach stable success.

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