Morality and The Affiliate Biz... (13)
Thiiiiiiis possibly isn't going to be as positive and optimistic and 'fuck yeah!' as most of my posts are gonna be, but something happened just yesterday that got me to thinking...
Basically someone very close to me got scam-fucked by some online health supplement offer... I don't know what it is / was, but it was a free trial, they gave their cc details for P&P and got nobbed out of about £140 (~$210?)
The bank doesn't care, because it's not fraud apparently... the P&P thing suggests a pre-existing relationship. Fuckin' banks.
And of course I didn't want to delve into what they'd done too much because I didn't want to dwell on the fact they fucked up and make them feel worse than they already do.
But I also came to the conclusion they probably would have found themselves in that situation because they took advantage of particularly well promoted CPA offer... you see where I'm going with this?
So my question here, just casually before the new year hits and my retainer check comes through, and I can get started... is this:
- Do you ever run into moral dilemmas in this business?
- How do you handle them?
- Have you ever actively promoted something you thought "this isn't good for people"?
It's something I've been wondering about....... All the best Gents!
P.S. I was going to post this in 'Off Topic' because I thought it might be best suited there... but then I saw a 4-page thread about a chair, so I thought 'ok cool'.
P.P.S. Also, to those who read this who doesn't know me (which will be most)... Hi! I'm new...
But i'm going to leave the bulk to the bigger guys that have went through the entire rebills, skin care, diet, gamble niches to answer. I'm just a small fish in the pond.
This is sensitive what i'm gonna say, so it's just my very PERSONAL opinion - Affiliate Marketing is a Dirty business. If you are very morally driven, stay out of it or you won't make much.. (you could, just very hard, to stay true to yourself)
Good luck buddy!
Joe
Affiliate marketing is NOT a dirty business. It depends how you do it. In fact, every AM is doing what ALL companies over the world are doing - convincing a user to buy a product / sign up for something they in fact do not really need. It's about marketing yourselve, in our case a product. This is how economy works.
Regarding the OP: there is some kind of moral red line for everybody in the game I think, unless you're a monster. Where's that line? Depends on your ethics...
Talking about rebills, loans, gambling, adult etc. obviously a lot of those offers aren't a 100% white / beneficial for your customers. But do they actually hurt them? While on the financial aspect rebills definately hurt and look shady, some of those products might at least psychologically help ( like diet / beauty etc ) people that are buying it. Short term loans are horrible in terms of the % people have to pay to get them, but a payday loans can really help them out if they're short on cash. People always gambled and will also gamble, they (in fact) CAN win and CAN lose. Personally I don't feel responsible for someone losing thousands of dollars playing Roulette or whatever game because I did not force him to deposit that much. It's just like that.
There are some affiliates jumping on that moral trip and shouting at people like me who are promoting gambling stuff. Bad moral, bad ethic, you name it, I heard it already. Those so called 'moral' guys have their point, but on the other often they run semi-legit campaigns as well.
One question you should always consider talking about morals:
No matter what kind of product you promote. You think you running white? How do you chose what program to promote? Do you really test the product you promote and take your decision based on what's best for your customer or do you go with what's converting best / what's hot right now and what makes you money?
From the beginning of me doing legitimate, full-time marketing, I have always asked myself the following question when deciding whether to run an offer:
Would I recommend it to my grandmother?
If the answer is "no," I don't run the offer. I happen to love my grandmother quite a bit, so it's easy for me to answer the question without trying to justify it this way and that to get around issues of morality.
PS - I admit that I have probably lost out on millions of dollars because of this choice, and that from a purely rational point of view this is perhaps a poor business decision -- but, I sleep pretty nicely at night and have done pretty well making moneys online, so I have no regrets. 
It's pretty simple. Set your own moral compass then decide what offers you want to run and don't. Do your homework on every offer. Don't do anything illegal.
It really depends on your mindset. Some people might view that rebill your family member signed up for as a scam. Others might look at it the same way the bank does - it's not fraud, fine print was there fully available to be read by the customer before signing up.
Morality is personal and subjective. This isn't something unique to affiliate marketing, every business owner needs to deal with these decisions.
At some time I was doing decently promoting mobile PIN submits. One day I was talking on the phone with my mother and she mentioned how upset she was because she had been billed about $100 for mobile subscription services, and she claimed she had never subscribed to anything like that. Obviously she did, and even though it was her fault for not reading the fine print, we have to admit that not everyone is as internet savvy as we might be.
It just didn't feel right to keep doing it anymore. My biggest campaigns were here in Spain, we have an unemployment rate of ~27%, close to 60% for those under 25. The situation here is really bad, and sadly taking $100 (or any other amount) can make a real impact on some people. I decided to move away from this vertical.
Nowadays most of my campaigns are in dating. Sure, there might still be a bit shady practices and tricks, but at least people pay voluntarily for the services. Business wise it was difficult for a few months but in the end it paid off. I'm doing better now than I ever did. But more important, like Josh said, I also sleep well at night.
When I got started in the business, I promoted a lot of crappy offers in ways that I'm not particularly proud of. The longer I've spent in affiliate marketing, the more aware I've become of the responsibilities that exist in selling. A lot of marketing is lies, but some are more destructive than others.
For many affiliates, promoting chaff never becomes a problem because they don't make enough money or drive enough leads to feel the backlash. You don't feel guilty if you're sitting on $47 of commission. It's this feeling of irrelevance that increases the aggressive nature of the ads from guys who are struggling to break in to profit.
Eventually, if you reach the point where you are driving a lot of business, the decision on what to promote becomes a more pressing moral issue. You realise how lucky you are to draw a big income from selling the dream, and if the product is ultimately a pile of horse crap, it can have an isolating effect on your happiness and sense of worth.
You often hear that 'diversification' is one of the smartest things an affiliate marketer can do, and it is. But not just for the financial stability. Without being able to work on something that actually inspires you and makes you feel good about yourself, you're heading down a pretty dismal road.
If I feel guilty about anything, it's normally that I'm channelling my marketing skills in to something that isn't as fulfilling as it should be. That's something I wrote about a while ago: http://finchsells.com/2012/07/24/do-...r-feel-guilty/
There are some terrible CPA offers out there, no doubt. I'm much more selective in what I promote now compared to how I was back in 2009. I didn't even bother to research the companies back then.
For me, the moral issue hinges on misrepresenting the offer.
If you tell them what it is, while embellishing the dream, that's good selling.
If you lie about what it is, while guaranteeing the dream, that's deceptive marketing.
It's a very narrow line, and we're probably all guilty of overstepping the mark sometimes. I honestly believe that not all marketing lies are created equal. There are scales of scumbaggery.
I feel like I'm slowly maturing down the scale from the heights of 'bloodsucking parasite' to 'rogueish capitalist pig'.
Gents
I have no doubt in my mind you're all good men... Finch, you're one of the reasons I was so excited to join the forum sir, your writing is the tits.
JoeJoeChen, fjk87, joshogle, doryphoros and Jorge... thanks so much for your insights, you helped me make an important decision.
After some soul searching... shit, I have to say I just don't think this business is right for me.
I was going to just up and leave without saying anything, but I wanted to extend my thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts with me. This is a great place, and WELL worth the investment for anyone who wants to totally sex up the world of CPA Marketing.
And I know there are ways to do this morally... unfortunately, as I think it's been agreed... that takes a little longer to pull in the big bucks from the get go, and after a conversation I had yesterday, I nearly completely lost my shit with my other business... so I just don't have the time to make it work for me, in the way I need it to work for me (I hope that makes sense).
I've been writing email copy on behalf of another dude for about 6 months now, I've been able to pull in $15,000 over a week with his list... and I see a lot of room for improvement. So I've decided to just grab my sack and put everything I know into practice... and do it my way.
Again, the money might come slower, but the path ahead is at least clearer.
I wish you all the very best of success in your chosen endeavours gentlemen, and I remain mildly envious of how cool what you do really is...
Unfortunately... It's just not the right fit for me.
So thank you all once again... and farewell!
p.s. Damnit... 2 posts away from PMs!
Awesome to see someone actually saying that aloud
However, learning to market CPA products is still very useful skill when (if) you make the jump to market more "legit" stuff.. Most of my online income comes from cost-per-sale offers, some with a payout of 150$. Forums like this are still a goldmine to learn what's happening online in general and what's working out there. List building, copywriting, tracking, automation tools, especially mindset and motivational posts... Good stuff for anyone!
Thanks Lismos... I agree with you totally though, the skill set will be invaluable to many, in a vast array of business endeavours... and I'm thrilled you've found a way to make it work for you man : )
Now fair warning... I was going to get my ass out of here instead of soaking up the good will, but I got a really nice PM just now so I'm compelled to get to 10 posts and write the guy back.
And here's number 10... apologies for the abuse of the system but I PROMISE it's for a good cause!
All the very best fellas.
Originally Posted by Finch
As long as they get the product it's clean.
Now, is the product up to marketing hype?
Is your congressman?
Was the trailer to the last film you saw?
How about the MPG on that new 20 MPG F-150?
Provide the product fairly and let the market decide, it will.
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