Follow Along: Dating on FB (46)
Initially I wanted to ask a bid related question about FB first, but decided to turn this into a follow along maybe and get this actually really going.
Facebook - Dating
Offer: Fortyplussingles.com (Direct Linking)
Country: Canada
Age: 41-46
Target: Male / Single or not specified / interested in women
12/13/2012
Cost: $25.00
Revenue: $10.00
Profit/Loss: $15.00 (LOSS)
12/14/2012
Cost: $23.86 (day not full complete yet)
Revenue: $10.00
Profit/Loss: $13.86 (LOSS)
Questions: So, I am trying to better understand FB pricing, CPC, and how that exactly works. I am bidding into the middle of the suggested range. I understand that my CPC depends on the CTR. How fast would I see the CPC prices go down in general and when do I know that I reached the bottom?
What do I do with my bid? Do I slowly adjust downwards or leave it where it is and let FB take care of the CPC?
I need to test more ads. Do I create more campaigns or add the new ads into the existing ones?
I don't know about CPC in canada but that's a pretty high bid in my opinion mate.
And yes you can still improve you ctr%; roi% is not horrible so keep testing !
Mehdi
Your bids are a little high you need to work on CTR..... .2 CTr is only okay these days
In France I had a .5 CTR and I was losing money with the best performing dating offer on my networks
Today my CTR reached above 1.2% and my profit was barely at 100% ROI on a super low scale... If you can profit at this time of year then I think after January you will be balling.... Since it's the end of the year the prices are sky high which makes it super hard to scale and get cheap clicks.
Good luck!!
Thanks guys. Do I add more ads into the same campaign or secondary campaign. I think I've read something to leave certain campaigns separate because FB usually picks only 1 ad and sends all the traffic to it. Or am I on the wrong track with that?
Originally Posted by bigbyte
So for a proper split test you need to create one campaign per variation/ad/pic.
It's completely unergonomic but that's just the way it is with Facebook.
Mehdi
You need images with over 0.2 CTR, so your CPC will drop below $0.10
Interesting day today. I assume weekends on Facebook are similar to weekends on POF with slightly higher conversion rates. I created a second campaign with 2 ads, but only 1 ad went active while the second one is still shown as pending. I also paused 2 ads from the first campaign and only had the 3rd one active that did not get any traffic on the days before. That ad actually scored a 0.364% CTR, but still fairly high CPC. So, I had a total of 2 active ads today and scored a total of 8 conversions. The one active ad in the new campaign “40+Date5” scored a CTR of 0.166% and was responsible for 5 conversions.
12/15/2012
Cost: $37.00 ($12 in campaign #1 and $25.00 in campaign #2 (rounded up since budget is almost used))
Revenue: $40.00
Profit/Loss: $3.00 (Profit)
So, for tomorrow I hope that the pending ad becomes active. If it does not I will create a new campaign and duplicate it over.
Not sure what to do with the ad "40+Date1". It has a high CTR, but not that many conversions + the CPC is still very high. What would you guys recommend doing? Pausing it and move it into a new campaign since it was the "red-headed step child" in that campaign that did not get traffic the days before?!
My account is still limited to the default daily spend, so I think I am restricted with how many additional campaigns to create. Any suggestions on how to move forward?
Split test a landing page?
Originally Posted by mscimitar
Just received an email that my account has been upgraded to $250/day spending limit. I take that as a good sign.
I am still only running on 2 ads at the same time (mainly from a cash-flow perspective, but will add a 3rd one tomorrow). The one pending ad never became active and so I killed it and moved it into its own campaign. Waiting for approval again. I also took one of the very first ads that had a ~0.16% CTR and moved it into its own campaign. I had it paused due to the other ad having the high CTR. Further down below I will talk about an ad that sits just below 0.150% CTR, but converts really well even at that level. So, I want to test one of the earlier ads as described because it actually seemed to convert Ok (=meaning, it could be slightly profitable).
AD40+Date1: The ad with the highest CTR is finally getting lower CPCs, but is lacking conversions. 2 Conversions for the day on $12 spent on FB. Not sure – does it make sense to bump up the daily spent or is the image just too much of a teaser maybe that will simply not convert? Kill it?
AD40+Date5: The ad shows a CTR of 0.144% which seems low, but it converts quite well. At the time of this writing I did spend $24.44 on this ad and have $35.00 in revenue. Not sure how to proceed? Test a different ad text with the same image? Or lower the CPC slightly and see if it becomes more profitable at the lower CPC?
I have 2 more ads waiting to be approved (separate campaign). And I mentioned that earlier – my account has been upgraded to $250 daily ad spend. Trying to spend more, but also need to keep an eye on my cash-flow. While I have some room to wiggle, the funds can be blown fast apparently.
12/16/2012
Cost: $35.65 (Day is still going | Campaign #1 = $10.43 + Campaign #2 = $24.22)
Revenue: $45.00
Profit/Loss: $10.35 (Profit)
You're in a pretty nice situation there - one image converting higher but lower CTR, one lower CTR but converting higher. Why is this good? Because hopefully you'll be able to get some insight into where the best balance point is at! (assuming here they have the same exact ad copy and have been run in parallel time wise).
If it were me I would do this:
Advert 1 (High CTR, low CVR, ~break even): Duplicate it into new campaigns (never mess with a working advert!) and play with the ad copy. Make 3 campaigns with different ad copy, 3 dupes of each advert, see if they stick with approximately the same CTR as the original and see if they garner a higher backend CTR. Two conversions isn't enough data to work on so you will need to give them some breathing space and get more data from that original. I would recommend sending more volume to the original advert and seeing how low you can push that CPC - change budget just after your advertising day ticks over, drop bid on that ad to say $0.25 and see how it fares the next day. Since this image is getting higher CTR you are going to get cheaper data with this guy.
Advert 2 (Lowish CTR, higher CVR, decent ROI): So CTR is the main thing holding that advert back. You're probably not going to get much from lowering the bid on this, it really needs a bit more performance oomph to bring the CPC down. So, duplicate that advert into a new campaign. Let a few of em fly, see if one sticks better. Won't take long to get below $0.20 if one of them sticks with high CTR for a few hours. After which that ad may start out-performing the original... next, try playing with image borders, saturation etc if that's what you feel like doing. I would look at advert 1 vs advert 2 and try to test more images in new campaigns, see if you can find some other image that strikes a decent balance between CTR/CVR. The testing from advert 1 should give you guidance as to which ad copy works better.
//My $0.02
Cool. Working on that now. Another question - since I am direct linking, should I throw in another dating offer underneath and see if that converts better on the traffic from the high CTR ad? Or is that step the last resort after following your other recommendations?
You have to state the name of the dating site in the ad copy so rotating the offer while direct linking can be dangerous, I would leave that for when you have a lander in the middle. User complaints and FB checking might get your ads retro'd. You could however rotate in a lander that then links out to rotating offers, just be careful with things being red on MyWoT - last thing you want to do is get your account/ads wiped when you're having initial success and getting experience with the platform.
Valid point. Thanks for pointing that out. Depending on how things go with that one I might create a new campaign instead pointing to a different offer and compare. I'll update later how things are going today.
Are Mondays (Tuesdays/Wednesdays) slow for dating on FB the same way as they are on POF? What kind of traffic pattern can I expect?
Ah, crap. I am getting a security warning from Facebook due to "unusual payment activity".
As a result of this suspicious activity, we have disabled your payments functionality in an effort to protect you as well as our other users. This means you are currently not able to make purchases on Facebook. If you would like to reactivate your payments account once you have regained control of your account, please contact us here:
Arghhhhhh
What did you do? Log in via proxy?
No, but the office (day job) I work at connects to the Internet through the HQ office in another state. I did login to the account from home and from the office several times already on other days. I guess I have to change it and remote into my computer at home and then login from there. I explained it to them through the web form, but I guess it will take until tomorrow to get this worked out.
You should be fine then, very likely to get it sorted. Be glad it's not suspicious payments notice where they have linked you to banned accounts. I've logged in from all around NZ and from Australia and the US, I figure you get whitelisted after a while. I also log in to my mums account to do stuff for her (she is over in Indonesia/Thailand and all over the place there), got sign in security stuff a few times but all good after a while - not involving any advertising but that lockout is likely just a consequence that follows the normal security measures.
I hope so. It is too early for me to lose an account. Just have to be patient now and to get it back. I wish there would be a phone number to call.
I had 11 conversions today until they shut me down, but cannot see how much I spent. I know I had spent less than what I made. Oh well ... hopefully back in business tomorrow.
Still waiting to hear back from Facebook. I wish they had a phone number to call. I am impatient.
Got my account back this evening. All is good, they reviewed all the information I had provided and sent me on my way.
So, here is the data for yesterday. Of course it is skewed due to having my account being locked starting yesterday afternoon.
12/17/2012
Cost: $55.06
Revenue: $55.00
Profit/Loss: $0.06 (Loss)
I duplicated the ad with the high CTR image and are testing it with some different ad text/headline combination. I also took the image/ad that shows the high conversion rate and are testing it with different ad/headline as well. I also have new images in separate campaigns going. Hard to tell about the profit/loss/revenue numbers from yesterday.
Due to my account being locked for over 24 hours I will not really have good testing data today. I just turned everything back on and I hope each ad and campaign picks up where it left of – meaning, the ads that were sticking are doing so again.
Here is the data from yesterday.
Nice work man, let the data flow...
Pulling the plug on the high CTR image in the new campaign with different ad text (or is this pre-mature?). The ad/campaign "raced" through the budget this evening, but only created one (1) conversion. Here is the data out of Facebook:
I might create a new campaign and throw this image/ad into the mix with a different offer and see if that offer converts better. The current offer is converting good (in my opinion) , just this image/ad combination seems to be stubborn.
What EPC does that correspond to though? If a 2nd conversion suddenly appeared would it make you think twice? In which case, yes, far too early to cull it. Remember your FB ad is new too so you have been paying much higher CPCs than you will over the coming days provided the CTR remains reasonable.
Don't shrug off the high CTR image yet, perhaps play with the ad text to accommodate the image.
Ok, I restarted the ad with the high CTR image to make sure I am getting enough data. Here is the data for last night. Almost all campaigns used the entire budget in the few being active hours yesterday. Amazing how much traffic there is and how much I usually don’t see because of the budget settings.
12/18/2012
Cost: $97.78
Revenue: $70.00
Profit/Loss: $27.78 (Loss)
Ad 40+Date5
The ad generated 7 conversions and came back in with a small profit. My cost per click is too high. Not sure if that is due to the campaigns being paused when my account was under review. I was paying the in the lower $0.20s before. I am inclined to increase the budget on this one a bit more to catch more traffic and of course I hope that the CPC goes down today.
Ad 40+Date6
This is a newer ad (new image, same ad text/title) and it started off quite well from a conversion perspective. This ad/campaign is haunted by the same problem I am having with the other one – the CTR is fairly low. Since this one is new I assume I am able to get the CPC down a bit and then it should be profitable. Not highly profitable, but at least something. I think for both ads with this problem I have to try harder and find a better ad text/title to increase the CTR.
Ad 40+Date1 and 40+Date10 (high CTR image)
Here is a comparison of using this image in 2 different campaigns yesterday. 40+Date10 is sporting a slightly different ad title/text while 40+Date1 is the original ad unchanged. In one way I think this was a good test yesterday as both campaigns started from scratch due to the account under review. On the other side the original ad shows a significant lower CTR compared to before and I am concerned this is due to the campaign being temporarily paused.
I also did test 2 more ads yesterday, but they both came in with low CTRs and very low conversion rate. I paused those for now to keep the cash-flow under control. I am trying to bring up one new campaign/ad per day and see if I find something that has good CTR and conversions and then slowly expand.
What else?
Brutal today. Good amount of clicks, but conversions suck. 4 conversions total so far. 179 clicks. EPC $0.11. Big loss unless something changes dramatically for the last few hours.
As mentioned, yesterday was just brutal. The network EPC was way down. All my campaigns ran out of budget in the evening. I did not do much in regards to optimizing. Click prices went down a bit and so it was frustrating to see the offer not working as before.
12/19/2012
Cost: $81.00
Revenue: $25.00
Profit/Loss: $56.00 (Loss)
218 Clicks | 5 Conversions | EPC 0.11
I rotated in another network with the same offer into the mix to split test and see if the offer converts better through another network.
I brought up a new campaign in a different country. I am using a landing page and it is a different offer. So far this is looking very promising with $25 Cost and $20 revenue – especially since it takes a bit for the cost per click to go down. Those numbers are not included in my profit/lost numbers mentioned for yesterday.
This is not going well. The offer pretty stopped converting for me.
12/20/2012
Cost: $75.32
Revenue: $19.50
Profit/Loss: $55.82 (Loss)
I have reduced my budget to like $1.50 per day - trying to wait this out maybe and "re-grouping". Also building landing pages for 2 offers.
I assume traffic around the holiday will be different, but since I have been still a lot of clicks I think the problem is at the offer level. I did reach out to my AM asking how the offer is doing on the network level, but my message kept unanswered.
You'll get cheaper clicks come Jan 1st most likely, and it would be a good idea to hassle your AM for a response if CVR has suddenly dropped (and has been that way for more than a day).
Thanks for the recommendation. I have inquiries into my affiliate managers to get more data about the different mature dating offers.
Yesterday did not go well and I think it is better to start over in a certain way. The results are so inconsistent and the conversion rates are fluctuating too much on the offers I am promoting + the one offer that did really well in December went to hell and none of the other ones has come close for me. Currently I am at around 0.30% EPC and I am not being profitable. I have some ad combinations with good CTR, but things are failing past that. I think my landing page (profile picture lander) is doing alright. I am seeing 50%-60% CTR to the offer.
Step #1: I am going to abandon the US campaign entirely. The offer(s) have been converting less in the US compared to Canada and testing the US market requires a larger testing budget. While I have some money to spend, with the offers in this segment being so weak for me this is just not a good combination.
Step #2: I am re-evaluating all data I have for Canada. I have 1-2 campaigns that were ROI positive (between 10% and 20%) and I will analyze the data piece by piece and see if I can expand those and improve. Going to test changes to the image and the landing page.
Step #3: I did ask my affiliate manager to break up the offer performance by country as these offers are US, CA, AUS, UK, NZ, IE, but he said they do not have that data yet in their systems. So, I will try these offers in other countries as well and see if it makes sense to go there. As mentioned I also inquired about another mature dating offer (Mate1 40+) and hopefully I get some useful data for that offer. I also reached out to my affiliate manager at EWA (have not used them in a long time) and hopefully I get some useful data and offer recommendations from them.
Step #4: Going International! I am doing some competitive research on dating offers for non-English speaking countries. It looks Be2 is all over the place, but I see a lot of affiliates going directly with the advertiser and my concern is that the payouts I am getting from a normal CPA network will not let me compete just yet. The networks I am working with also have limited availability for some of the countries I am looking and if they have something, some of the payouts are too low ($1 to $2.50 range). Adsimilis declined my application back in October. Have to find other networks I can get into.
I am also always having a bit of a problem with getting a good angle on a generic dating offer. That is a part where I need to learn more.
Ok, any feedback or recommendations you guys have – please post them. If I am off the beaten path, kick me – I can handle the feedback. I want to make this work. I am not afraid of losing money as you can see from this follow-along. I want to learn and get this right.
Originally Posted by bigbyte
Originally Posted by pokersensei
Why not split test other niches and check out which is working well?? You are on continuous loss I hope so ??
Yeah, bleeding money right now. When you say other niches - sticking to the same age/country or completely move into a different age group or even different country?
why not try international dating offers 
In which networks you are currently in ??
Originally Posted by dinesh1625
Originally Posted by bigbyte
Don't spread yourself tooo thin. Lots of testing in small amounts across multiple networks makes no cashflow happen. I would recommend Adsimilis for international dating, can't comment so much on C2M/W4/Max/A4D. Hit up Sean on the forum if you want a hand getting Adsimilis to let you in. (http://stmforum.com/forum/member.php?1842-Sean)
Originally Posted by zeno
Thank you to both of you guys!!!!! I really appreciate the help. Will continue with this follow-along. Already working on some new landers and reviewing offers and potential networks to go to.
Ok, quick update to keep this follow-along alive. Reached out to some networks and some existing AMs. I am being ignored most of the time (probably because of people getting ready to travel to ASW). I have “secured” access to a couple of international offers and started to run the first new campaign yesterday. CTR is weak, but I managed to get 3 conversions already. I am pausing campaigns/ads once they have a good amount of clicks and impressions and the CTR stays low. Uploading new campaigns at the same time + waiting for approvals. Different country I guess calls for different images from what it looks like. I am using a landing page and I am rotating the same offer from 2 different networks.
01/07/2013
Cost: $14.07
Revenue: $23.40
Profit/Loss: $9.33 (Profit)
Conversions: 3
I am also working on landing pages for other countries (think Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Germany) and will get those finished through an online translation service hopefully before the end of the week. By then I hopefully have more offers to play with.
Having difficulties getting a decent CTR. Images are definitely an issue. Already retired 3 campaigns and have 6 more out there. Some ads are very slow to be approved, so this is taking a bit to get some traffic flowing. Seems like the newer ads get approved faster compared to the ones that are sitting out for 6-12 hours.
I am getting a few conversions - including those mentioned above. This might turn out good if I can get the CTR up. All conversions so far came from ads with a CTR of 0.08% or less.
I am still suffering from low CTRs. However, one campaign/ad is still doing decent with 5 conversions total and a total spent of just $15.67. The CTR for that ad is 0.064%. Definitely not satisfied, but being profitable at that level is good and motivating.
Also, volume is still low and I am increasing my bids and my budget as I go. Some ads are losers right of the bat. I have to come up with a better ad title/text combination as well. FB Ad approval is slow which just adds insult to injury. Overall I am profitable which is good. I already have 2 conversions for today, but of course the day is still young.
Here is the data for yesterday:
01/08/2013
Cost: $30.25
Revenue: $39.00
Profit/Loss: $8.75 (Profit)
Conversions: 5
No updates on any affiliate network related stuff. No phone calls, no emails, no Ims, nothing – neither from existing AMs or from the 2 where I applied. I just hope that it is the week before ASW and that communications will pick up once ASW is over.
The offer I am running is on 2 networks that I have access to, so at least that is good.
I was testing 2 different offer pages and one is outperforming the other one by 6:1 (this includes today's data that I will publish tomorrow). So, I switched the offer rotation to 100% going to the good offer page. This should hopefully help with making this more profitable. I am testing more images, but I don’t know. My daily spend is still very low due to very slow ad approvals and then some campaigns sitting idle even after approval. I partially had over 12 campaigns active and the budget amount exceeded my daily spent limit, but the real spent is way lower as you can see.
1 new ad seems promising and I will report about it tomorrow. Today is a lot more going on. Anyway, here is yesterday’s data:
01/09/2013
Cost: $31.52
Revenue: $23.40
Profit/Loss: $8.12 (Loss)
Conversions: 3 (they all happened early in the morning my time/ late in the evening for my target)
Was way too busy with the day job this week. Should have finally more time tomorrow and will continue to work on other countries and landing pages.
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