Home > Affiliate Marketing Forum >

---

BeNaughty (Cupid) shitty practices revealed. (49)

---

Hey guys, I've heard of the forums for ages, but I've just signed up to share my horrible experiences working with Cupid.

To introduce myself i've been doing dating for the last couple years. i think i've worked with every big dating advertiser out there. I started working with benaughty 7 months ago, and my initial experiences were great. Offers were converting well, affiliate managers were always pushing for more volume and, money overall was good.

Around the 3rd month, things started going downhill.

I noticed my landers were being copied aggressively (i'm talking within days). I was talking to a couple other big dating affiliates and they noticed the same trend. At this point i decided to do some research to see who was running on these domains. After talking to some industry friends i found out the internal cupid media buying team was getting on every traffic source that they knew converted well based on their affiliate stats. To make it worse i noticed on my prosper report that clicks were coming from their admin panel.

After some time they cut me out of the biggest sources, because they could bid higher and because they had the highest CPA possible, while using my landing pages.

What was even stranger was that Cupid was split testing multiple pages from different affiliates. I understand affiliates copying affiliates is part of the industry, but when the advertiser steals your page and then drives you out of business, its horrible practice.

Month after month things were getting worse. They weren't just copying my pages and driving my bids up, they were now scrubbing. From what i understand they have a fixed monthly budget, near the end of each month the budget will run out but they wouldn't ask affiliates to stop their traffic, instead they scrubbed, and they weren't scrubbing lightly. Every last 10 days of the month i noticed my conversion rate lowering by almost 3x.

Just to put this in perspective if i was making $6000/day near the beginning of the month i was making $2000/day near the end of the month for the exact same traffic. Every time i asked my affiliate manager whats wrong, he said everything is fine. This trend happened like clockwork every month, and it was very obvious they were scrubbing everytime they're budget came close to ending.

Last month was the worst yet and, i'm absolutely sick of it. You would think if you've worked with an advertiser for a while, done a lot of business with them, and they were happy with your lead quality that they would treat you right, however Cupid doesn't seem to give a fuck.

/rant.

Anyone else having the same experience?

---

Who is your rep, Kirill?

---

I've never worked heavily with their offers (just couldn't get good enough EPCs), but I have seen the scrub. I also coincidentally noticed that their internal team had ripped one of my banners yesterday.

It definitely sucks man, but surely there were alternative offers you could have tried, especially during the scrub periods?

---

That is OUCH man, sorry that happened to you

---

Maybe its time to build your own dating site

No, really they are definitely a pain in the ass, but compared to some of the other advertisers out there still relatively decent.

---

Thanks for sharing.

---

Ah sorry to hear pal, total Love/Hate relationship with Cupid too, good offers-worst team

---

Pretty much sums it up right here. really tired of dealing with cupid, its not worth the headaches.

---

Damn it man I have almost the same story. I was driving super high quality traffic for UK, got up to 2-4x times public payout. Then all of the sudden EPCs started dropping like crazy. Kept spending to the point where I could barely break even.

Recently started promoting USA, delivered volume, traffic was good and performing. A week went by and again, EPCs dropping like crazy.

It sucks because I had always thought of Cupid as one of the top guys and spent money on split testing for internal performance, just to get "apparently" scrubbed out.

One can always assume less traffic as competition drops in, but EPC drops are a big no-no.

---

Is there a way to cloak/hide your campaigns and sources to prevent this?

---

Cloaking isnt an option, adult campaigns are so open that anyone can see them easily just by searching for ads on all major sites.

Fran, I'm assuming your experience is more recent because they're scrubbing harder recently, they dont even let you build it up long anymore. The EPC drops are too big, it's clear what theyre doing and its going to hurt them in the longterm.

I hope they see this. I'm now working with their biggest competition to get them at a level that will make them compete head on with cupid.

---

This is what I'm wondering though - if you were having issues, couldn't you quickly and easily have switched to a different offer on a different network?

I'm definitely sorry to hear that you were having problems, but it's not like Cupid PLC monopolizes anything - they have competition in pretty much every major market.

---

Care to share on who their 'biggest competitor' is? If it's who i'm thinking, they're no better than cupid. But i would gladly take a drop in ROI just to fuck them over after the bullshit they put me through.

---

Same, never had such awful AMs in my life.

---

What did you expect? They hire Ukrainian kids straight out of college as AMs.

---

Hi CrackHed,

I'm an affiliate manager at Cupid plc. Very interesting post, but looks like a simple adverse publicity to me.

All these accusation in intentional outbidding and scrubbing are just ridiculous. Especially since you support them with very "strong" evidence such as "I was talking to a couple other big dating affiliates", "After talking to some industry friends", "From what i understand", etc.

Our current TOP affiliates have worked with us for years and are still happy to do so. They're treated fairly, cared for, and have our unlimited support, because we value business relationships with our partners. Our account managers are always in touch with our big partners (and I assume you were supposedly the one since you were "making $6000/day") and cherish them as the apples of their eyes. So when you say that you "noticed my conversion rate lowering by almost 3x" but "Every time i asked my affiliate manager whats wrong, he said everything is fine" it's just not possible. Who is your account manager? Whom did you talk to about it? I need the exact name and Skype ID/email.

Also, if you say that we "have a fixed monthly budget, near the end of each month the budget will run out" how could we still pay you "$2000/day near the end of the month"? How could we pay anything if we don't have the budget? With non-existing money?

"Cupid doesn't seem to give a fuck." So whom did you talk to about this? I'm here and ready to talk about your problem. Get in touch with me at alex.liman@cupid.com or via AIM at oleksiiliman and let me know your email and your AM name, so I can get in touch with him, and together we solve whatever landing page and conversion problems you have.

Otherwise, if I don't hear from you it'll mean that this entire post is just a complete BS. And most likely it's just being paid by some competitors to soil Cupid's reputation. It looks like it, since you've just signed up for this forum and have only 2 posts in total, one of which is full of dirt about us.

Your move.

---

How could you see "scrub" and "ripping one of your banner" if "never worked heavily" with us? lol

Yes and the reply could be something like: "Yes, definitely there were some alternative offers I used. It was [insert Cupid's competitor's name]! They're really good! Everyone should try!!!"

Again, dusklife my email is alex.liman@cupid.com and my AIM is oleksiiliman If you have a problem and actually some evidence, get in touch with me and we'll discuss it. If not, it just looks like you guys are conspiring against Cupid being paid by the 3rd party.

---

Hi maynzie,

If you're having any problems with one of our account managers, please get in touch with me at alex.liman@cupid.com or via AIM at oleksiiliman We discuss and solve your problems.

---

fran, please let me know your email and affiliate ID at alex.liman@cupid.com or via AIM at oleksiiliman With whom from our team did you discuss your problems? Who is your account manager?

If I know this info we can actually figure out what's going on with your traffic. It's not cool to just accuse us in scrubbing, while you don't even talk to our team about your problem. There is one hundred and one reason what could go wrong. So I'm looking forward to hearing from you.

---

Just as expected The key message: switch to a competitor! Or maybe THE competitor?

---

I consider $100-200/day revenue over a span of a few months to be 'not running heavily' but consistent enough to be able to make a judgment call on a sharp unexplained EPC drop as being scrubby. I can't prove anything (who can? that's one of the problems with scrubbing...), but my experiences were relatively consistent with that of the original poster.

I'm an affiliate. I work with affiliate networks. When you're in a position like I am, if one offer is underperforming and another can do better, I'll switch without hesitation. So, of course I'd recommend he switch to a competitor. Why wouldn't I?

---

What "bullshit" are you talking about in this case? If there's any particular problem please PM me here or email at alex.liman@cupid.com And please let me know your AM's name and your email you used to register in our system.

---

Please give me the name and Skype ID. Who is your manager?

---

Excuse me, but what are you trying to say, 12as26? One of the Ukrainian kids who's typing this message has recently done his Master's at one of the universities in New York. So I'm not as smart as you?

---

Well I think the OP should tell Alex who his AM is at least, no?

---

I understand dusklife. But there's a difference between stating that one offer is better than the other, and accusing somebody in basically stealing your earned money from you (which srubbing in fact is), right?

You have to understand that our product isn't static. Every now and then they launch new product features on our sites that may affect conversions. Our site evolves and changes over months, so you can't really compare EPCs in say March and September. Of course, our team thoroughly tests these things, but no one is protected from faults and glitches. Damn, even mighty Apple has recently released crappy maps. Who would expect it from them? Cupid is way way smaller and humbler than Apple, so shit happens, we have to admit. And this is the point where you get in touch with your AM and tell that something is wrong with your traffic. He investigates the problem, and marketing and product teams look into such issues. I think it's way better than when you just assume that we are scrubbing you and accuse Cupid publicly.

Once again, if there's any details you want to share to figure out your problem, just let me know your details: your AM and your email (you can do it privately via email alex.liman@cupid.com, AIM at oleksiiliman or just PM me here).

---

By trying to defend our name? Seitzy12, what would you do if someone came out publicly and told you you're a thief, while in fact you're not? Would you feel good about it?

I admit that we can have bad AMs. That's why I'm asking every single person who's left bad feedback here about his AM's name. If there's somebody who works bad, we should know about that, and fix it.

I admit that there might be some problems when working with us. But again, this should be discussed with the advertiser first. To go out to the crowd and call our company a piece of shit, thieves, or become personal against our AMs by implying something by pointing at their nationality isn't fair, is it?

That's all I'm doing here.

---

pokersensei is right. If you guys don't have any intention to renew your partnership with us you could at least tell us your AM's name, so we'll know for a fact, who didn't help you.

---

Props for jumping in and discussing this.

Didnt make this thread, but I commented on the drop on EPC because it has been true for me for the last couple of weeks. However, I quote the above because it's a point I hadn't considered and might quite well be the reason for the drops. So I appreciate you pointing that out. Scrubbing is perhaps not the best choice of words in the thread, but you have to understand we are always watching stats like a hawk, and the first sign on EPC drops is a red flag for us (doesnt matter the reason).

Pretty sure the OP (IF he has delivered the volume he says he has) will notice those changes more than the average affiliate.

I am very happy with my AM (Anna), she's honestly on of the best AMs I have worked with, always responds enthusiastically, very attentive and great person. It's been great working with her. It's also great working so close to the source and be able to test your promo performance systematically.

Communication is key (specially when working direct) so it would be smart to announce any changes to the services that could harm affiliates performance, before they come here jumping into conclusions. (Even more if if affects all affiliates)

---

Sorry to the OP for losing money like that. The advertiser is the easiest scape goat for sure, but it looks like rusyaev is willing to get to the bottom of it, why not explore that end of it?

---

I tried to discuss it with cupid many times, your a very aggressive company as we can all see by your responses, and it's no different when talking to the reps 1 on 1.

I'm not going waste time blabbing back and forth about scrubbing because it's a topic thats hard to prove on either side, i already tried to solve the problem many times directly. We'll end it here:

I see your pretty confident in your answers, let me ask you some questions.

1. Does Cupid run internally and compete with their affiliates on the same traffic sources (especially after you see from affiliate stats that quality is good on certain sources) ?

2. Have you ever copied pages from affiliates? Are your pre-landers your original creations or a blatant copy of your affiliate's work?

3. Ever copy banners from affiliates?

Now if you say no to at least one of these , I will post proof of domains you use with landers 100% ripped from affs, without even removing html comments ( guys that run a lot of adult will know what I mean )

---

Just post it and don't mess around. If you're that confident on them ripping shit off, just go straightforward.

I'm not taking any position towards one of the two sides involved here, I'm just getting pissed at permanent outing threats coming up lately by guys on forums. Fuck it, if you can proove it, out them. Do you think waiting for an answer will give you anything ? That's not the route to take when finding out bad business practice with any network.

Same goes for the other guy posting about a 'well respected' network ripping his shit off. If you can proove it, do it and don't mess around. Do you think asking them for something will change the way they operate ? Hell no.

Forums are intended to be a ressource for people. If you can out / found out about a scammy company, it's nothing but fair to out them. Same you'd expect from other members to do so to avoid people running traffic to such companies and potentially losing money in the end.

Threats to out somebody won't do shit, actually outing at least will (or can) save others money.

---

The only reason I didn't post it straight away is because I don't want to out mine and other affiliate's landers / banners to a public forum unless I am forced to.

Let's see if they will deny they rip landers from their affiliates...

---

^ Not quite a 'public' as WickedFire or WF....

---

WickedFire / WF may have more members...but it's not like they actually work

---

And it seems it's 100% a SEO forum now. I can't remember the last time I've seen something related to affiliate marketing there.

---

fran,

Thanks for actually mentioning real names here. Anna is a good AM and a nice person indeed.

To improve communication is a good advice. I agree with that and will certainly encourage our team to work on this task.

---

Can we expect a statement about the quoted questions ? Mean you're quite upfront and going straight straight forward with your replies so far...

---

this^

---

really? it got awful quiet in here after we start talking about cupid running internally and copying banners/landers.

---

Yeah, kind of surprised there is no response. After the initial barrage of answers.

---

Attack is the best form of defence. but we no fools....

---

C'mon, serious?

---

Time to chicken out as it seems lol

---

Looks as though as soon as OP threatened to out solid proof cupid were ripping landers it seems our friend rusyaev emptied his bowels into his underwear and did one.

---

If you play with fire, be prepared to get burned! Benaughty site is a SCAM if i've ever seen one. I signed up as an actual dating member, and I got barraged with hundreds of fake profiles and fake aliases sending me emails, winks, requests you name it just so you become a paying member. Stick with promoting legit dating sites like eharmony, match, speedate (eh) and a few others. Not benaughty, or any of the justhook up sites as they are complete scams. Not that I care about the user experience that much, but there is no point in complaining about them stealing your shit when they are a scammy business even to begin with.

---

All the adult dating websites are run like that.

---

I don’t think a public debate is the way forward in order to satisfy the issues you have with us. So far I have asked for you to send me details of the Account Manager you had/have problems with. And yet, I haven’t received that. It also concerns me that you are not only unable to provide this, but you also appear keen to remain anonymous, and with only 5 posts to your name, all of which are negative comments about us, you can forgive me for being a bit sceptical as to your intentions.

I’ll re-iterate again, happy to have a chat about any issues you may have.

With regards to copying of banners or landing pages, this isn’t something we are likely to do. Happy for you to show me some examples and if we find out that somebody has done this and we are able to identify who, then we will take the appropriate action.

Regarding traffic sources, yes we do have a team handling direct deals, as is normal within any internet company with a full marketing mix. And, given the limited internet real estate likely to drive dating traffic, it is likely that they will from time to time come across sources that our affiliates or networks are using to drive traffic to us. The same goes for our PPC team, who may run ads on a content network that may conflict with affiliate activities and may even conflict with direct deals activities. That is just the nature of this business. Everybody wants to improve their own monthly targets, which I’m sure you also aim to do.

I’ll remind you again that I’m happy to have a chat about anything you find not to your liking. We have literally thousands of affiliates both dealing with us directly and through networks and when we hear even that a small number haven’t had good experiences then that isn’t something we are happy about. I know there are only a handful of you on this thread who have suggested here that you have had a bad experience working with us, and out of the 4,000+ affiliates we have that may seem irrelevant, but I can assure you it is not and whilst we understand we can’t keep 100% of the people happy 100% of the time, less than 0.01% who have expressed a concern here will be given the same amount of attention as anybody else. And it is with this in mind that I re-iterate my invitation to discuss. I will also look into any issue of suggested copying if you can give me more info, and will also speak to the AM if you give me his/her details. Please also give me your account details (you can PM me here on the forum) and possibly I can look at what I think may have caused fluctuations in performance.

---

Welp - if you want to run a legit adult dating program - hit me up: Skype: jon.mac303 - #noscrubs

---

Home > Affiliate Marketing Forum >