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Death of SEO? (50)

08-29-2012 09:26 AM #1 tijn (Moderator)
Death of SEO?

Ed Dale is calling it....

http://www.eddale.co/market-leadership/googageddon

triggered partly by this post from SEO Book about a google patent:

http://www.seobook.com/rank-modifying-spammers

During the transition from the old rank to the target rank, the transition rank might cause:
a time-based delay response,
a negative response
a random response, and/or
an unexpected response
If your revenue is reliant on SEO - You have to read both posts - and go through your own scenarios on how you would cope if it did happen.

08-29-2012 10:07 AM #2 julien (Member)

Every year, since 2000, SEO is supposed to be dead

08-29-2012 11:52 AM #3 tijn (Moderator)

it must run out of its 7 lives soon!

08-29-2012 11:56 AM #4 scitox ()

Interesting read! If you're reliable of Google, you're just waiting for the slap. It will come sooner or later.

08-29-2012 01:01 PM #5 Connaissance (Member)

Seo definitely IS dead. If you are already a mega expert banking hard, then by all means milk it, but it's certainly not a time to get into it as a beginner. And if you have a bit of income coming from it now, it's high time to diversify. I know I am. Paid traffic is so much quicker and scalable.

08-29-2012 01:03 PM #6 inversion (Member)

Social is the new search.

08-29-2012 01:06 PM #7 deondup (Member)

Matt Cutts just love to taunt the SEO faithful...some weird Geeky satisfaction in pulling the rug out from under the SEO gurus.

Google is just as guilty. They created this whole SEO industry

08-29-2012 01:08 PM #8 julien (Member)

I completely agree, by the way.
I'm currently working in SEO, you don't know how happy I am to have been able to develop my skills concerning paid traffic. (even if there is still a long road to do in my case)

I feel bad for my team mates and friends in the SEO industry, still hustling like lemmings, in a position where you can't win, no matter how good you are at sucking Google's balls.

08-29-2012 03:37 PM #9 dconstrukt (Member)

i fucking hate SEO right now....

got destroyed in this last penguin update.... and we weren't doing *anything* remotely even grey hat....

08-29-2012 03:45 PM #10 tijn (Moderator)

heres another post by someone who's view I rate:

http://www.cornwallseo.com/search/20...t-will-you-do/

normally he kicks the establishment and is first to call bullshit.

08-30-2012 06:41 AM #11 gael (Member)

Uhm, death of SEO? depends what you call SEO I guess.. As long as Google still exists and show some results each time some guy types a search query, I don't see how SEO can die. SEO changes, but never dies. One of my sites got a huge increase of traffic after penguin update. Maybe it is cause I have always been extremely white hat, not caring if I have just very small amount of backlinks etc...

08-30-2012 10:35 AM #12 tijn (Moderator)

Agree SEO as a function wont die

SEO as a service model (think SEO Firm) will go through some tough times if Ed Dale and others are right and they dont "Pivot" (i hate that word) to offering paid traffic support

08-31-2012 12:53 AM #13 bookashade (Member)

Google started killing SEO aggressively just after October Panda update... Only 6 month later they had Penguin 1.0... I realize that the aim is to provide better search results, because right now there are a lot spam affiliate sites around with just tons of backlinks. I really doubt that they only care about user experience... they want to became really cool web directory where submission costs a lot money.

The only thing I don't like is that small guys (therefore small businesses etc...) who actually deliver quality, wont survive in a new reality... websites like Amazon, about.com, eHow.com will EAT all search results. For Google its much better to trust big guys. (And profitable!)

***

Right now I rely on organic traffic, because I know what to do in order to rank for a keyword, but I need to learn PPC really fast... that's the only way out to survive for SEO's (or EX).

08-31-2012 02:21 PM #14 stewartf (Member)

Always love these threads. Death of SEO and I use white hat. I did SEO for 4 years and its energy sapping and often demoralising.

I think SEO taken literally has been defunct for nearly 2 years when Google woke up and said f##k this shit our listings are awful and starting hammering everyone. Lets be fair its their business and backyard. You play in it and sometimes you will get your head kicked in. SEO was never 'white' hat anyway. If you design a business or site to use the algorythym to get higher thats black whatever method you use. your still trying to manipulate things beyond a 'passion' site.

I think the key now is combining the search engines, social and paid traffic to establish yourself independently as a business/brand/persona, so that people will seek you out directly.

Anyway being the cynical kind I think that deep down the drive by Google is to pretty much force displacement of sites so that site owners have to crawl to them to pay for traffic and increase their revenue anyway.

09-03-2012 09:58 AM #15 joejoechen (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by dconstrukt View Post
i fucking hate SEO right now....

got destroyed in this last penguin update.... and we weren't doing *anything* remotely even grey hat....
SEO itself is already grey hat.

The best SEO is not to do SEO. lol. It's easier said than done though..

09-08-2012 10:24 PM #16 seowork12 (Member)

seo i s not dead its just a little harder then before take that from a guy who makes big money with seo

09-13-2012 01:16 PM #17 vyom (Member)

Yeah I wouldnt say its the "death of seo", you can still rank pretty easily but the problem is reinventing your strategy after every update. Its really frustrating to re-evaluate everything after each update. That is one of the reasons I started focusing most of my energy on paid sources of traffic. You are more in control... Ofcourse it has different set of problems but its much easier now compared to seo.

10-14-2012 01:34 AM #18 morgi666 (Member)

People are crying that SEO is dead with every major update... It's not dead, it's just changing. Be quick and adapt or change your source of traffic. SEO is not the only one and definitely not the best one.

10-14-2012 06:41 AM #19 dario (Member)

I have an outsourced SEO project for a website of mine
I would copy paste what this SEO team wrote me about the new SEO rules, hopefully you can find something interesting

Just touching base to let you know that we just submitted 30 or so Web 2.0 pages with links to your site just now to combat the Penguin filter.

For content we used super spun plr content which does a pretty good job in producing link juice.

Because the web 2.0 links produce very little link juice at first you probably will not see that much of a change in your rankings at first.

The real boost will come from the efforts we put in to backlink the web 2.0 links themselves. As Google finds more and more of the links we submit to them they will increase the authority of the Web 2.0 pages themselves. Which in return will funnel more and more juice to your money site.

Which consequently will also protect your site from receiving any unnatural link warnings from Google.

So it really is a strategy that kills two birds with one stone.

We also suggest you write some of your own content and place them on Web 2.0 sites. Having some Web 2.0 pages with original content will only speed up the process. If and when you do create them just paste the link(s) here on this thread and we'll start backlinking to them as well at no additional charge.

Also if you would like to accelerate the process even more we have an upgrade package you may want to consider taking advantage of. Basically with the upgrade we'll write original articles and post them on Web 2.0 pages. Then we'll quadruple the amount of backlinks we send to them as well as the other web 2.0 pages we are already backlinking to.
I just examined all the existing backlinks you have pointing to your site to see if you had any social qualifiers (click here, click, check them out, etc.)as your anchor text.

The anchors I found I attached below so you can check them out too.

If you're wondering how important social qualifiers are in ranking sites view it this way. If you had 1000 other webmasters all of a sudden link to your site would they all use the same keywords to link to you?

Of course they wouldn't. Google knows this too.

Some would and some would use keywords such as "click here" which is considered a social qualifier link.

So by linking to your site using social qualifiers your campaign looks more natural to the crawlers.

Having said that we are going to set you up with a link campaign using social qualifiers and non-primary keywords as the anchor text.

The new Penguin algorithm has a lot to do with relevant links and over used keywords being used for the anchor text.

If you would like to read a good article on this you can check out http://pageoneinfiltrator.com/seo/panda/.

We didn't write the article but it comes from a a source we trust when it comes to figuring out the Penguin Algorithm change.

10-14-2012 08:14 AM #20 andyscraven (Member)

Hi All,

One of my sites got slapped by Penguin dropping from position 2 & 3 on page 1 down to the bottom of page 1 (some say it could have been worse). We did everything right and in the end we discovered that what caused the slap on the wrist from Google were 4 toxic links.

When I looked at them they were all created independently by users of the sites. One of them was created 10 years ago.

Panda decided these sites were bad due to the amount of spam stuff on them and marked them as toxic, which in turn affected my site.

I have no control over these sites and I have asked them to removed the links but to no avail.

So, the advice is instead of putting all my energy in to getting them removed I should create more quality links, which should tip the balance back in my favour. Some of the comments above are correct, strong link juice coming to your site from good Authority site with as a high a Page Rank as possible.

The issue with this is that it all takes time and lots of effort.

We have taken the view that it would be commercial suicide to rely on SEO for our future trade and hence have decided to pursue other avenues.

The main reason is, what animal will Google unleash next?

Panda, Penguin, ?????

Has anybody noticed that they are going through the vowels? Begins with 'P', first 'a' then 'e'. So the next update should be an 'i'. Whatever they call it, it will be a PIG! :-)

11-26-2012 09:24 PM #21 dresden14 (Member)

As long as the whole first page is not paid (like the top three, far right spots); SEO will always be there. Many of the branded companies are ranked in the top positions in my niche (debt). Just keep plugging away, mimic what the competitors do...

11-26-2012 09:27 PM #22 fjk87 (Veteran Member)

As long as there are unpaid organic results, there will be an algorithm defining the top results. As long as there's an algorithm, it can be played somehow. No matter it's delayed or not by any patent.

11-27-2012 12:36 PM #23 dconstrukt (Member)

funny how all these "experts" come out AFTER shit hits the fan, with their "expertise".

none of these fuckers know whats going on or what WILL happen.

they're hocking their products.

11-27-2012 12:48 PM #24 andyscraven (Member)

@dcconstrukt: Very funny!

11-27-2012 11:35 PM #25 weekendwarrior (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by andyscraven View Post
One of my sites got slapped by Penguin dropping from position 2 & 3 on page 1 down to the bottom of page 1 (some say it could have been worse). We did everything right and in the end we discovered that what caused the slap on the wrist from Google were 4 toxic links.
That's not a bad slap. Minor.
Quote Originally Posted by andyscraven View Post
When I looked at them they were all created independently by users of the sites. One of them was created 10 years ago.

Panda decided these sites were bad due to the amount of spam stuff on them and marked them as toxic, which in turn affected my site.

I have no control over these sites and I have asked them to removed the links but to no avail.
I have heard (but never tested) that you can selectively 301 redirect bad links like these to mitigate the damage - redirect them to another domain.

Remember also that you don't have any evidence that the cause is those links. The only proof is when you eliminate them and your SERP changes. It could be onpage factors which caused a lot of change with the recent google updates.

11-28-2012 08:45 AM #26 andyscraven (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by weekendwarrior View Post
Remember also that you don't have any evidence that the cause is those links. The only proof is when you eliminate them and your SERP changes. It could be onpage factors which caused a lot of change with the recent google updates.
I agree other than Google saw them as Toxic! We have disavowed them and are waiting to see if it makes any difference. We are also going through another quality back link program from relevant Authority sites!

11-28-2012 09:38 AM #27 fjk87 (Veteran Member)

Quote Originally Posted by weekendwarrior View Post
Remember also that you don't have any evidence that the cause is those links. The only proof is when you eliminate them and your SERP changes. It could be onpage factors which caused a lot of change with the recent google updates.
Due to the patent saying that google included a delay for updating SERPs and delay of links taking positive/negative effect on your rankings (just a very short summary of that patent) it's hard to get a 'proof' about anything in SEO lately.

To be able to proove anything, you'd need to have access to the algo defining SERPs. Do you have that? If not, no proof... SEO is a guessing game. The guessing better wins.

11-28-2012 06:51 PM #28 andyscraven (Member)

@fjk87: I agree. Google say they are trying to level the playing field so that smaller sits with less budget can have an equal chance of ranking well but that is just not how things have unfolded! I have a small site that has lots of traffic, has always tried to obey white hat SEO, has very relevant content that changes, is backed up by a vibrant Facebook page with customers doing a lot of Shares of our site BUT still it was hit by Penguin!

The odd thing about the SEO boys and girls is that they rely on the customer not understanding a word they are saying so that when Google change the algorithm again and their clients site is hit hard they can put up their hands and say, "Well we did everything right but now we have to take much more of your money to do everything right again!"

I have two words for the SEO fraternity and they are PAID and TRAFFIC!

12-13-2012 01:34 AM #29 bradmcleod (Member)

SEO is far from dead. If you were running junk with shitty back links and content - then yeah; your limping along.

if you had good articles and took the time to connect back to Facebook, twitter, etc. and engage your readers -- then not only did you get rewarded in the last Google update and if monetized - your easily bringing in steady 6 figures.

probably not too late to go back and rework all of those articles and do the hard work --

may not be what most in this forum want to hear -- but it is bankable $$ -- that gives you the luxury to read and study and work on other quicker ca$h projects.

12-13-2012 08:22 AM #30 andyscraven (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by bradmcleod View Post
SEO is far from dead. If you were running junk with shitty back links and content - then yeah; your limping along.

if you had good articles and took the time to connect back to Facebook, twitter, etc. and engage your readers -- then not only did you get rewarded in the last Google update and if monetized - your easily bringing in steady 6 figures.

probably not too late to go back and rework all of those articles and do the hard work --

may not be what most in this forum want to hear -- but it is bankable $$ -- that gives you the luxury to read and study and work on other quicker ca$h projects.
As I said in my post aboe, I have a site, that is a legit part of an events business. We did everything correct and still are but we got hit by Penguin! The site has a huge active Facebook following with plenty of shares etc still it was hit by Penguin! So the hard work begins again but business has been hurt by it! If you prefer to keep your fingers crossed when it comes to building a business then go right ahead! Since Penguin I prefer to control what I spend and the traffic that creates.

12-14-2012 12:46 AM #31 bradmcleod (Member)

I bet if you went back in and looked - you had mank under your hood and either didn't see it - or over looked it

Not an indictment of you at all - we all had it (junk) including myself (had to clean up a few things) - but was able to rewrite and correct and move on with a cleaner slate

I am still getting consIstent fund$ - so maybe my finger crossing is actually working

i also augment organic/seo with PPC and bricks mortar biz and travel to events to round it all out (not putting all eggs in one basket).

12-14-2012 07:49 AM #32 andyscraven (Member)

@bradmcleod: Be my guest. http://www.murdermostfoul.co.uk

12-18-2012 02:34 AM #33 bradmcleod (Member)

looking now --
Bro.... where is your email opt in with value proposition? that is your money bag for starters.

you need an email list to augment your 2000 plus FB users.

so last post was in march of last year? update that sucker daily

how is this site monetized?

Do you have an email list you have collected in some other manner and how often were you mailing to them?

daily micro-pruning all seo words on the back side and working them back into your articles?

looks on the surface like a good catchy site to me

The first thing i thought on monetizing this is that you offer these theatrical productions - are these filmed?
and if so - selling dvd or recording of the event?

Also selling through Amazon - I would be selling Grease dvds, grease jackets, grease soundtracks, etc.
google can penalize you some - but if you have a list - you get to market to that list and doesn't matter as much what google says.

that is a quick 5 minute look - and i know it is easy to armchair quarterback another IM site - but those are big $ laying on the table.

your site is a mini-goldmine (6 figures year) - just need elbow grease (no pun intended)

let me know any way that i can help you on the side to moneti$e your site and get it back on the race track

12-18-2012 07:50 AM #34 andyscraven (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by bradmcleod View Post
looking now --
Bro.... where is your email opt in with value proposition? that is your money bag for starters.

you need an email list to augment your 2000 plus FB users.
We have a huge emailing list that is gathered while folk are actually at the events. This is an offline business and we gather all of their data either over the phone or while they are with us.

Quote Originally Posted by bradmcleod View Post
so last post was in march of last year? update that sucker daily
Yeah, Facebook took over to be honest and we are very active there. Our demographic is primarily ladies aged between 25-52 and most of them love Facebook

Quote Originally Posted by bradmcleod View Post
how is this site monetized?
See below!

Quote Originally Posted by bradmcleod View Post
Do you have an email list you have collected in some other manner and how often were you mailing to them?
We have many 1000's of email addresses, each representing a party of at least 4 people and we communicate a lot! With all kinds of special offers. This is a theatrical business so it is the characters that we have created that do the communication.

Quote Originally Posted by bradmcleod View Post
daily micro-pruning all seo words on the back side and working them back into your articles?
Oddly enough we now drag more traffic to our Facebook page and then to our web site for the list of events.

Quote Originally Posted by bradmcleod View Post
looks on the surface like a good catchy site to me
Thanks.

Quote Originally Posted by bradmcleod View Post
The first thing i thought on monetizing this is that you offer these theatrical productions - are these filmed?
and if so - selling dvd or recording of the event?
We did try offering things like that but the whole basis of the events is the humour that is created while you are actually there. Because of this we get a very high percentage of repeat customers. For instance, last weekend there were only 5 people at the event that hadn't been many times before.

Quote Originally Posted by bradmcleod View Post
Also selling through Amazon - I would be selling Grease dvds, grease jackets, grease soundtracks, etc.
google can penalize you some - but if you have a list - you get to market to that list and doesn't matter as much what google says.
Yeah, we tried that a few years ago but the way it works for ladies is that they have pre event costume get togethers, with wine obviously, and love the planning of their costumes for each evening, So we sold very little. Also, it kinda made the site look a bit trashy and diminished the product offering.

But you are right, I could take a fresh look at merchandise. We, have as a rule given it away as a thank you for booking again and again! We also, give our regulars a glass of bubbly and badges etc. We created the Frequent Diers Club, sorta like Frequent Fliers. You get the idea![/QUOTE]

Quote Originally Posted by bradmcleod View Post
that is a quick 5 minute look - and i know it is easy to armchair quarterback another IM site - but those are big $ laying on the table.

your site is a mini-goldmine (6 figures year) - just need elbow grease (no pun intended)
Yeah the site brings in over $500k per year but has been hit during the recession!

Quote Originally Posted by bradmcleod View Post
let me know any way that i can help you on the side to moneti$e your site and get it back on the race track
Thanks for that. We are doing a fresh bunch of Authority Link building and we are also looking at a Press release or two!

UPDATE
decided I wanted to add some more!! :-)

I guess, IMHO, the reason I think SEO is diminishing is the constantly moving tide! You do everything right and then it is decided you didn't. You read the rules abide by the rules only for the rules to change!

Either you spend $1000's employing an SEO compnay or invest 1000's hours yourself, which is counter productive to actually running and building your business only to wake up one morning and have it all thrown away.

With a Paid Traffic solution you only have yourself to blame if it doesn't work! The above site is not an Affiliate Site and I have tried very hard not to make it look like one, hence another reason for no Adsense ads or other types of banners.

But the main reason I believe SEO will play a less important part in a businesses strategy is that let's assume I get this site back up to the top of Google, and to be honest early indications is that we will. We are now back on Page 1 for all of our major keywords but nearer the bottom rather than at the top. The issue comes when I wake up and find them reranked yet again because Google decide to change their thinking... Again...!!!!

If I was to say to you as a business leader that you should put the future of your business in the hands of a stranger and if that stranger decided to change how he viewed your business you had no choice but to go along with it, you would call me crazy!

That is what you are doing if you rely solely on SEO with Google! It is like the boy that cried Wolf! Eventually you ignore him and because of that I do believe that every time Google change their algorithm they are throwing the baby out with the bath water!

12-18-2012 08:15 AM #35 river (Member)

Just a little pointer from me - Maybe add the square style like box under your about us stuff.

See - Muscle-munch.com for the example of like box.

12-18-2012 08:19 AM #36 andyscraven (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by river View Post
Just a little pointer from me - Maybe add the square style like box under your about us stuff.

See - Muscle-munch.com for the example of like box.
You should see a Share bar on the left of the home page! Thanks for reminding me as I have had someone else say they couldn't see it on the homepage although they can on every other page. I use Firefox and it is shown on mine!

12-18-2012 08:39 AM #37 river (Member)

Ah yes, I'm on Chrome and it doesn't show for me

12-18-2012 08:53 AM #38 andyscraven (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by river View Post
Ah yes, I'm on Chrome and it doesn't show for me
Wow! I have just tried it on Chrome and it shows on the left for me! Which version are you using? What resolution? PC or Mac?

Does it show on the other internal pages?

12-18-2012 09:05 AM #39 river (Member)

Latest version, Windows 7, 1440x900 dual screen.

v. 23.0.1271

I've looked and I can see it on Firefox, personally I'd still take the like box approach as it shows peoples faces & has a like button there and then to draw people in. I've split test the different styles on my site and the like box did best.

12-18-2012 01:03 PM #40 andyscraven (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by river View Post
Latest version, Windows 7, 1440x900 dual screen.

v. 23.0.1271

I've looked and I can see it on Firefox, personally I'd still take the like box approach as it shows peoples faces & has a like button there and then to draw people in. I've split test the different styles on my site and the like box did best.
Thanks for checking. It seems this plugin is hit and miss on the homepage!

Do you use Wordpress? If so, which plugin did you find or did you get it straight from Facebook?

12-18-2012 01:06 PM #41 river (Member)

Yeah Wordpress & I just paste the code straight into a text widget.

https://developers.facebook.com/docs...gins/like-box/

12-18-2012 01:13 PM #42 andyscraven (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by river View Post
Yeah Wordpress & I just paste the code straight into a text widget.

https://developers.facebook.com/docs...gins/like-box/
I shall try adding it to the Homepage to see how it looks, thanks for this!

12-18-2012 01:30 PM #43 andyscraven (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by river View Post
Yeah Wordpress & I just paste the code straight into a text widget.

https://developers.facebook.com/docs...gins/like-box/
Added! http://www.murdermostfoul.co.uk

12-20-2012 03:50 AM #44 bradmcleod (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by andyscraven View Post
That is what you are doing if you rely solely on SEO with Google! It is like the boy that cried Wolf! Eventually you ignore him and because of that I do believe that every time Google change their algorithm they are throwing the baby out with the bath water!
yeah; i agree as I use organic/seo/ppc and bricks and mortar for a well rounded healthy business.

I chuckle when I hear too many times that PPC is the only way and that organic/seo is boring-slow and you can't make money. That is not reality. Either way - we can agree to disagree as I am hear to learn from others and not stir things.

let me know if you need any help bro - as more than happy to help another IM guy (many have helped me on this board). thnx

12-20-2012 08:08 AM #45 andyscraven (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by bradmcleod View Post
yeah; let me know if you need any help bro - as more than happy to help another IM guy (many have helped me on this board). thnx
Thanks Man!

12-22-2012 11:28 PM #46 Sweet Tooth #3 (Member)

I won't go around making blanket statements like "seo is dead." And to all still banking off seo, kudos to you. But I will say this, seo is a pain in the ass, it will get harder (as it has been), and getting a site slapped is like a kick in the nuts.

I have seo'd sites in all the basic health niches....insomnia, menopause, digestive health, anxiety etc.... I was making a few hundred a day and then got slapped by Penguin. Part of it was my fault for over-optimizing anchor text and blasting out ALN links. But I was just checking some of my old keywords and it seems all my competition is gone too.

This phrase "Melatonin side effects," not a big money keyphrase, but worth having a blog post ranking for it on a niche site. The top 20 results used to be all seo'd sites, lots of emd's and keyword domains, now they're gone. Now it's all Web MD, Medicinenet, Wikipedia, Mayo Clinic, and other trusted sites. I found 1 seo'd site. It has lots links from relevant sites, no overoptimised anchor text, but is still on page 2, making no money.

I've checked about 6 of the keywords I used to rank high for and found the same thing. I spent about $1,000 on high quality seo services, and managed to get some pages to the bottom of G page 1, which means nothing.

IMHO, the new seo will be brand building, providing a unique and valuable service, building a social following, and being in it for the long haul.

But on a positive note, still love my Ya/Bing traffic

12-23-2012 03:40 AM #47 Eli ()

According to most of the gurus SEO actually died in 2005 after the Jagger update.

also, this.

Quote Originally Posted by fjk87 View Post
As long as there are unpaid organic results, there will be an algorithm defining the top results. As long as there's an algorithm, it can be played somehow. No matter it's delayed or not by any patent.

01-01-2013 11:56 AM #48 nossie (Member)

SEO isn't dead. It's more alive then ever.

The landscape has changed yes, It's actually must better now for people that know what they are doing.

SEO is becoming a whole project with alot of aspects instead of just blasting a 1-page website to the top. I actually prefer it, it means less beginners and more $$ for people that make the effort.

There still are alot of "tricks" you can use to get a competitive advantage.

01-01-2013 02:35 PM #49 andyscraven (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by nossie View Post
SEO isn't dead. It's more alive then ever.

The landscape has changed yes, It's actually must better now for people that know what they are doing.

SEO is becoming a whole project with alot of aspects instead of just blasting a 1-page website to the top. I actually prefer it, it means less beginners and more $$ for people that make the effort.

There still are alot of "tricks" you can use to get a competitive advantage.
I don't disagree, in principle, with anything you are saying. With Paid traffic YOU are in control, with SEO you are at the mercy of others! So a mixture of the two is a good balance. For IM though paid traffic is much quicker to test and scale!

01-01-2013 02:51 PM #50 nossie (Member)

If you make the risks as small as possible with SEO, I dare to say you have the exact same "control" as you think you have with let's say buying ads on facebook. You can start and stop the traffic faster, but other then that there are exactly the same risks involved. Sites that change rules, Stuff that doesn't convert anymore etc etc.

When i'm going into a new niche with SEO, i'm not just making 1 site with 1 strategy. I diversify my stuff on such a high level, that it becomes almost impossible for an algoritm change to wipe me out entirely. You have to think big.

I agree though that results from paid traffic are faster, and that SEO is not a real business model.

But don't just stop by saying that you can't get control with SEO. Because you can.

The downside from SEO is, yeah it takes me from 6months to 1year to enter and dominate a niche, with paid traffic i guess you can get something going within 10minutes

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