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Question about the test budget (17)

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My test budget for this campaign is $65, It has spent $15 and has 1 conversion so far.

Although the test budget is $65, if the camp shows little to no conversions as it spends up the budget (let's say it spends $40 with 3 conversions), do you kill it or just let it run through the entire budget and see what happens?

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Difficult to say without knowing how many landers and creatives you are using.

The question is rather... do you see any chance to get your investment compensated (ever)?

At a 100% ROI you would need 7 conversions to cover your current losses. But where shall this 100% come from when there is no indication for it yet?

One conversion could just be pure luck. Story would be different if you had multiple conversions already and can see some pattern. In your cases that would mean to further invest a bunch of money.

When having 3 conversions on one creative and one lander and an ROI at -50% or better... then it could make sense to test that combination a little bit longer.

But then it also depends on how much potential you see. Sometimes a few bad zones cause majority of losses. Excluding them can sometimes change the picture.

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One more thing... is this a completely new campaign with new elements (offers, Ads, LPs)?

When testing completely new things, I wait a bit longer to see if anything stands out. But if there is something you know is good, for example the offer, I wouldn't go on with it most likely... $20 should be enough for a $2 payout offer to be able to tell if it has no potential and as larso mentioned, 1 conversion can be just pure luck.

The tip with a few bad zones is very good as well! Very often, there is 2 or 3 large BAD zones that eat up large part of the budget and ruin the whole test.

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@anthonyh

Here is my 2 cents on this (less experienced then both Matuloo and larsometer here)

I have been running Propeller pretty much everyday for a month straight launching all kinds of offers with SOI flows like this. I started by spending roughly $50 per campaign to "see" what happens. Many would reach $30-$40 and have maybe 4-5 CVs worth $5-$8 bucks TOTAL (so $8 back on $40). I would think it had potential, run it more and it flies off the cliff like Thelma and Louise. Offers that are really working will usually show potential right away WITH A PROVEN set of creatives and pages. Twinaxe said it best in my follow along...Something like...

Even a mediocre LP and creative combo can be made to look stellar when the offer is converting great.

Even a basic funnel will still show relatively immediate signs of life on an SOI payout if the offer is working well (barring anything weird like dayparting or whatever). So my additional advice on what lars already said is: you can test campaigns much faster IF you have a relatively trustworthy funnel and set of LPs + creatives you know work well on similar offers / vertical. In my case I started to get better "eyes" for what showed life right away and what was not looking good at all. LPs + creatives great CTRs, offer CV very low, probably offer.

Offer really is the key around these parts. Everything else isn't really a huge deal once you have a basic working set of LPs for that vertical type (in my case sweeps pages). Hope some of this info helps.

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Ok, so I'm assuming that the way to find a proven funnel is simply by testing and It'll reveal itself over time right?

I'm not suppose to be looking inside of a spy tool or something to try to find one am I?

By the way this was very helpful, much thanks.

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Yes, there is no real way around this, you need to find the good stuff through testing.

You can obviously start by testing funnels ripped from spytools, that will increase your chances for sure.

But, offer is the most important part of the puzzle. Just like has been mentioned... the best offers will convert to some extent even with shitty creatives, but even the best creatives wont be able to convert a shitty offer

Try to focus on finding solid offers first, once you have some, it will be easier to select the best creatives... and once you have a tested/proven set of creatives, testing new offers will become much easier.

Creatives and offers influence each other, so to speak. You cannot identify good creatives without having a converting offer. And you won't be able to make the offer profitable without a set of solid creatives. The problem is, when starting out, you have neither of them so you need to process in steps... find a promising offer, then use that to find better creatives, then use the proven creatives to find even better offers, then improve the creatives even more... it takes a while.

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Yes, I believe I'm still in the stages of trying to find a proven funnel.

Each campaign I create, I usually do the same landers, with different offers and ads, and if it doesn't convert, I just start a new campaign.

I never take data from the old campaign and apply it to the new one. Please let me know if this is something I'm supposed to be doing.


For example, if a camp failed, but one creative had a high CTR, should I take that creative and use it within the next campaign?

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Got it, that makes perfect sense.

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Yes, definitely. Picking these "isolated" performers and testing them in new campaigns does make a lot of sense. You can do the same with LPs for example, if one seems to stand out, definitely re-test it in a new campaign.

One note here, sometimes these "better performers" are not really better... it can be some misleading element that caused the higher CTR and that's not something you want. You will learn how to judge this once you get some experience.

But generally speaking, you really want to do this, that's what the process is about... you test and pick the cherries one by one.

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This really depends on what you are advertising or trying to promote, since it's not the same if you make campaigns for some existing offer or for the new one that you have just published in the market. If it's the second situation, then you should definitely leave your campaign running for more time, but you may be just can make some slight modifications in your campaign setup, maybe redefine targeted audience, placement, or a way for budget distribution. I know it's sometimes recommendable to wait for the whole testing phase to be over to start with some new setups, but just that you don't lose money in vain, maybe this could be a method that would help you start getting better results and figuring out which parameter has a major influence on your metrics.

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Ok, so I had an offer that got about 7 conversions but I screwed up the postback URL so I couldn't read the data.

Given that it actually converted, would this be considered a good offer?

And should I try running it again?

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Just because it converted, doesn't mean it can be made profitable.

How much did you spend on traffic? How many landers were you testing?

It would be hard to answer your question without knowing which traffic segments converted.

If the ROI isn't hopeless, I'd suggest to retest after fixing the postback url.

Basically it comes down to 1)how much room for optimization you have, 2)how far you are away from positive ROI, and 3)whether you have enogh room for optimization to get you to positive ROI.

Do you know what's wrong with the postback url? If not let me know and we'll do some troubleshooting.



Amy


Sent from my iPhone using STM Forums

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I got the Postback URL fixed, I put the wrong parameter in it.

The numbers for that camp were:

-88% ROI

I spent $15 and tested 3 landers total.

7 conversions = $1.75

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@anthonyh

I have been in this position a LOT over the last 30-40 days. What happens right now is you are unsure of what to do. Run it still? Don't run it? Why? What is the rationale? This is what happened to me. Overthinking and overanalyzing EVERYTHING. Trying to find statistical data in spread out confusing data. I am getting a lot better at it now.

This is really difficult to answer a lot of the time. Should you run it? It depends. Reading your tracker is your top job right now, and it's very confusing I know. Here are some things I have learned so far that frustrated the hell out of me and eventually I got it worked out. Let's take a look at your last run. $15 to generate 7 CVs at $0.25 each for $1.75. Your CPC based on the screenshots above are between 0.04 and 0.05 each. This means you must convert 1/4 or 1/5 to BREAK EVEN. I am FINALLY starting to get campaigns into green territory and my CV rate is 1/30 to 1/40. You see? This isn't the case for everything but it does showcase what I am saying. I had to learn that math was my friend here when I felt frustrated and was looking for answers.

So is this offer a dud? My vote is YES. BUT, this depends on LPs, proven funnel system, and a general feel for it at least in my opinion. If you are using 1 LP, and you know this funnel works on similar things I would kill this offer. 1 caveat here is how many zones ran, and how spread out it was. If a few zones ate up all your budget and you never cut anything then maybe, and its a big maybe, its worth running again. I am getting very aggressive at offer cutting. 1k of straight losses has taught me this through the crucible of pain.

If you are running multiple LPs, like in your last test. You sent the traffic 3 ways. This means each page roughly spent $5. If all these CVs are 1 page, well, you MAY have the ember of something but its highly unlikely. Just test lots and lots of offers and you will see when something starts performing faster. Plus as you build A LOT your LPs and creatives will get predictable sort of and you will start to hone in on offers mostly. Plus using lower payout offers I would test more offers aggressively with lower overall campaign budgets. @vortex @twinaxe and @ScottyG Helped me see the light on that last one. Hope this all helps you

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Definitely spot on!

But, I'm starting to see how to do this now. From the simple math of a campaign, to knowing what to do based on whether you have something that you know works or not. It's all starting to make sense to me.

I'm glad I joined this forum man, this is golden guidance and insightful information.


Got it. I think I'm going to start running 3 camps per day instead of 1 then. Huge thanks to everyone!

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Personally I don't really give too much effort unless I see at least -50 or better, but again, it depends on the whole funnel and how much confident you are that all parts are solid.

And it also depends on the overall data... how much placements is the traffic from, are there any budget drainers, are there any specific paths (Ad, LP and offer combo) that show better performance...

7 conversions means one thing, it wasn't a coincidence, so that's at least one good sign. So now you have an offer that CAN convert at least to some extent and you can use it as a benchmark that you will aim to beat.

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Agree with @quintyfresh!

Even if all your conversions had been made by a single lander (which is unlikely as quintyfresh pointed out), your ROI for that lander would be -65% - which would still be quite a ways from breaking even.

So unless there's a good reason to give this offer another shot - such as someone you know personally is succeeding with it - I wouldn't bother retesting.



Amy

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