Presell vs direct linking (19)
Hi guys,
I Heard it many Times now, that a presell Page should always be used...
Now ive made a test on my own...
Direct linking : 87 clicks to a clickbank offer until a conversion happens
Presell pages: 100 clicks to the offer and NO conversion.
How can this possibly be? Are 100 clicks To little of a sample size?
But if so i dont know how i can ever make this profitabel since the Initial payout is about 20 bucks.... If someone takes the first upsell, then 50$ payout...
Offer : top Performing offer from clickbank. (proven by gravity)
Placements (about 10 placement s, which should be a whitelist, because i Exported it from anstrex competition, who also ran this Campaign years on this placements)
So can anybody explain this phenomenon?
Offer already burned out or why its going this way???
Thanks so far
First conversion? Probably lucky.
Pretty small sample size.
How much did you spend?
Base price is $20? Has an upsell for +$30? What is the Average Order Value?
What was the gravity?
If it's been running for YEARS, and has high gravity, and it's on Clickbank? It's not burned out.
Hi, i spend in total about 300$ and made $100 back from the direct link Sale...
AOV should be about 70-80$, since the average payout is 50$ and it cb. Gravity is still above 250...
I know the sample size is Not that big, but with the ads and presell i filter out the crap pretty good i Think, so how can native ads work of Not even 1% of "warmed up" traffic converts??
I still dont get it, even i would have one Sale now with the presells, it would probably be a lucky one, but to make massive Profit there have to be much more conversion rate, isnt it?
Originally Posted by robeasy83
But yeah, if it was as easy as grabbing a top-ranking Clickbank offer and sending ads to it and making a profit right away, don't you think everyone would do it?
The best marketers in the world are on Revcontent/Outbrain/Taboola and they'll happily buy clicks at a 30% profit, so to be profitable yourself you need to be buying media as effectively as they are... its REALLY difficult (though not impossible - just takes time).
It took me 6 months and well into $xx,xxx spend before I started making consistent profits
Not trying to discourage you - just want to make sure you have realistic expectations
Anyway you mentioned using 10 sites in a "whitelist". What network are you running on?
Also, Anstrex and Adplexity are not 100% accurate. Its possible those 10 sites are not actually good sites. I don't use Anxtrex but I know on Adplexity it is not possible to construct a good whitelist from the site data on campaigns.
Anyway you're obviously hustling and working hard at it, but its super difficult and you're competing against guys that have been doing this for years. Its not like Facebook where you can target your 5000 perfect customers and therefore have a way easier chance at being profitable, its every marketer vs every marketer competing for the same traffic.
But yeah, let us know what network it is, that will be by far the most important variable to effect potential feedback I think.
I run the ads on revcontent at the Moment. Yes i know that its Not that easy, but at least you need a starting point where to build up on it...
Okay interesting... But how do you test on a small budget if you cannot rely on spy Tool data?
My "rep" from revcontent also gave me no whitelist after asking, so how to Start native as a beginner??
Offer already burned out or why its going this way???
For example when CB offers have a good VSL it can work as well.
Originally Posted by robeasy83
Like I said only problem is the spytool data on sites isn't always that accurate.
You might want to run a few run of network campaigns to sort of build your own "whitelist" of sites you know are good. Then you can purposefully target those as much as possible when testing out offers. Again though I wouldn't do that unless you're using a presell to weed out the bad widgets.
Revcontent used to let you just pick among their "Brand" sites (the biggest sites in their inventory) but they got rid of that, then they used to upload whitelists for you, but I believe they have moved away from that too.
But yeah, Jaybot and I both did long follow-alongs of stuff we ran on Revcontent, I believe I even listed some of the top performing widgets on mine. And then if you can find any of those old James Van Elswyck courses those had some great info in them. And Platinum has a wealth of amazing native threads on here you can learn from.
Mostly though its just finding offers that seem like they're working, testing them, and then either turning them off if they don't work or slowly optimizing them if they do. Ideally with TheOptimizer so it can quickly block bad widgets for you.
But yeah, Clickbank offers on Revcontent is a great match. There's been tons of money made by lots of guys running that combo.
Thanks for your help guys...
I will try some other offers first i Think or maybe i continue direct linking...
What do you Think about product price?
Do you have some rules when a product is too expensive for direct sales so the customer cant make a instant decision?
I am scared that if the Product is too expensive the folks do first Research and get then a cookie from some Review sites and mine is gone....
And another question :
Since Google Banned my Account, i cant run a Remarketing Campaign.
On which sites were the ads shown on Bing retargeting? Do they have the same spots or isnt it worth the effort?
A GOOD lander will almost certainly improve the results... on the other hand, a POOR lander can even hurt the CVR so it will perform worse than a direct linked campaign. So the question is, was the LP you have used a good one?
And yes, the sample is too small, 1 random conversion doesn't mean much at all.
I testet 3 different ones, all from a spy tool.
The best one got about 40% Ctr on some placements, so i guess its no bad one...
Yes you are right, thats to less of a sample size, but the problem is i can not run 3 times this budget to get 2 more conversions, it would never be profitable...
IDK how to fix this to be honest... with the CPC Bids on Revc. with this small payout you need at least 2 Conversions per 100 Offer Clicks, otherwise you would never run into significant profit...
Originally Posted by matuloo
Originally Posted by robeasy83
That's why we always advice people to start with low payout offers, it makes everything so much easier especially when the budget is limited.
With a $100 payout, you can't really get any solid data unless you spend like $1000 or so.
No, this is actually a 25$ payout offer on the Main product...
Only because they often buy the first upsell its a $50 payout but i threat it like a 25er...
And this Kind of money would be ok for me to Lose...
The Problem in my Thinkig is the following:
You say that a good lander always wins, but if i run with a lander with lets say 35% ctr, its always required to buy 65% more traffic compared to a direct link Campaign to get the same amount onto the sales Page...
Can you prove it with actual stats, that a presell performs so much better, than it creates even more roi than a direct where i have to buy 65% less traffic???
Just to make it more clear :
Lets say i buy 100 clicks direct linking to a offer for 0,35 Cent, that is 35$ TOTAL. if i get a conversion rate of 1% which is Realistic in my opinion.
Now lets say i Use a presell with ctr of 35%, means i have to buy 3 Times the traffic to get 105 people (almost the same amount) in Front of the vsl...
My cost now have already trippled but i cant imagine, that you can have a constant 3% + conversion rate in the long run only because this tiny 4 line presell which they have forgotten anyways after a 30 min vsl...
But if anyone can prove me wrong and back it up with data, i am down...
Originally Posted by robeasy83
there's no one way to do this - the beauty of it is that its a "make your own adventure" kind of thing and there's myriad paths to success. Just to drop one last bread crumb on the issue though, there's over 100 million dollars spent on Revcontent each year, a large portion of which is on Clickbank VSL's. Media Force and Healthscore and folks like that have been running Clickbank VSL's on Revcontent and Outbrain for years on end.... and of all that, 99% uses a presell. Don't you think if direct linking worked better they would know by now?
Again, none of us care either way other than trying to help you win because you joined STM and we want to help you succeed, and as we said, there are probably situations where direct linking is better. But its not like all this is some brand new thing where there's no best practices to learn from
And I do totally get your logic that more VSL views should equal more conversions - it does seem logical- but in practice the marketplace is a reflection of what works, and that's presells... but that doesn't mean you can't buck the trend, so if you don't want to use presells, it's all good
Originally Posted by jack_l
there's no one way to do this - the beauty of it is that its a "make your own adventure" kind of thing and there's myriad paths to success. Just to drop one last bread crumb on the issue though, there's over 100 million dollars spent on Revcontent each year, a large portion of which is on Clickbank VSL's. Media Force and Healthscore and folks like that have been running Clickbank VSL's on Revcontent and Outbrain for years on end.... and of all that, 99% uses a presell. Don't you think if direct linking worked better they would know by now?
Again, none of us care either way other than trying to help you win because you joined STM and we want to help you succeed, and as we said, there are probably situations where direct linking is better. But its not like all this is some brand new thing where there's no best practices to learn from
And I do totally get your logic that more VSL views should equal more conversions - it does seem logical- but in practice the marketplace is a reflection of what works, and that's presells... but that doesn't mean you can't buck the trend, so if you don't want to use presells, it's all good
eg. User sees an ad, watches video, clicks website, etc.
2 Days later user sees an advertorial for same offer?
Originally Posted by ScottyG
I've never really done much retargeting to be honest... I only do natives and for whatever reason its not a huge thing on natives (although you can do it certainly)... but yeah it probably depends how fancy you want to get (i.e. different advertorials depending on what group you're retargeting).
Originally Posted by jack_l
These people have already been filtered & showed interest in the product - they just need a little extra push.
Much better to retarget 1,000 highly interested people rather than 1,000 random people.
Originally Posted by robeasy83
I dont run NOTHING directlinked at all now.
As jack_l mentioned, there might be situations where directlinked works better... for example when the offer alone has a great and properly designed landing page. In my main niche, which is dating, LP wins in like 95% if not more cases though.
You can obviously try without a LP and who knows, maybe some offer will work that way... but personally, I would focus on building good LPs instead.
I always liked the analogy with a car dealership... Let's say someone walks into the dealership and there is no sales person present, do you think they will buy a car just like that? Some might, when they already know exactly what model and equipment they want, but most would need to be sold to... a good sales person can sell higher equipment package, more expensive model and even insurance package or financing... things that the client never intended to get. And LP is your sales person in the online world.
I glanced at some of your posts to make sure I'm responding to the right person.
I do not want to read too much into your posts as I'm pretty sure there is a bit of a language barrier. However, the more I read, the more I suspect your biggest issue is mindset. You come across as very combative and distrustful, as if people are trying to hide something from you. And yes, no one is going to give you an exact blueprint for success, trust me I've asked, but plenty of people are trying to give you information to help you succeed.
The feeling I get it is almost that you expect to fail. If that is true, please take a step back and readjust so that you are ready to learn and hopefully succeed.
Originally Posted by robeasy83
Also, you seem to forget we are dealing with people. People are not always logical or rational as we perceive. So we are left with one of two choices:
1. Run tests, see what the data says and adjust
2. Try to be psychologists and understand why people are doing what they are doing, and still have to run tests and see what the data says
People on this forum are offering you their advice based upon their experience and what has worked for them. Other than @twinaxe, no one is going to spoon-feed you a profitable campaign. @vortex and @platinum get pretty close, but you still have some work to do.
Were I you, I'd probably take a break for a few days, decide if AM is really what I want to do or not. If so, come back with an open mind and a desire to learn. Instead of saying "No way that can work!" Ask, "I don't get it, please help me understand why that does work."
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