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Long term strategy and building a sustainable business (8)

03-04-2021 03:34 PM #1 fap911 (Member)
Long term strategy and building a sustainable business

Hi everyone,

I've been a member here on and off for several years and just trying to put a plan in place to figure out where I should go next.

Been dabbling in affiliate marketing probably for the past 15 years. I've chased every shiny new object so have tried numerous methods and channels. I've had by far the most success with SEO but it is difficult to scale quickly and you're at the whim of whatever new algorithm changes happen frequently.

Then I jump on here and see all of the successes with paid media and the ability to grow quickly exponentially which is absolutely intriguing to me.

My issue with what most do on here though as that I want to build a business that I retain some ownership of. With the traditional affiliate marketing model you are essentially a pass-through to the vendor. This is obviously a great model but my concern is that it requires constant input in order to keep moving forward and you lose a lot of control based on vendors changing offers and maybe even stealing your funnel.

I have a handful of websites that I've been growing over the past few years. A couple of them have a decent following so I was wondering if maybe creating some sort of a hybrid model could work for me. Here is my idea - create landing pages in a blog-style format within my website that are basically pre-landers for offers. This would give me the opportunity to promote using paid media but also send additional traffic to my website. Now I know the danger here is that a blog-style post has a lot of distractions which could take away from the call-to-action. Although by the same token if they start cruising around and find other products/offers they're interested in, there could still be some monetary gain there.

Another disadvantage I know of is that blogs traditionally load slower than HTML landing pages, so this would be a potential concern as the difference between a lander loading in 1 second versus 5 could be significant.

But back to advantages, I am able to control the experience a little more and build an asset that I can continue to build upon in the long-term.

So from all of your perspectives, am I complicating matters by even considering doing this? Should I just forge ahead with the traditional model many of you are using and focus more on finding and converting leads? Ultimately I want to make the big bucks but also don't want the same thing that happened to me with SEO to happen again with paid. At one point I was clearing $XX,XXX monthly but then the old Google updates killed it all. I'd like to be able to diversify my methods to keep from having the rug pulled out of under me again.

Thoughts?

03-04-2021 03:59 PM #2 dr_ngo ()

It sounds like you're trying to combine multiple weapons into one.

I'm not a fan of the "blog style format" for landing pages. It CAN work, but those are fake blog / advertorial style that are designed to push people to a specific offer. It sounds like you're trying to have your cake and eat it to. Don't reinvent the wheel. People DO use paid traffic to grow blogs. But the style is usually either:

A. Quiz funnel
B. Lead magnet / eBook giveaway
C. Selling a product.

A pre-sell should have one goal. Speed is important so you don't want to host it via Wordpress. Use something like Instapage or Unbounce.

"Although by the same token if they start cruising around and find other products/offers they're interested in, there could still be some monetary gain there." This is wishful thinking. The slowness of the page combined with the distracting elements = overall lower conversion rate.

Other thoughts:

1. You are right to want to build a long term asset.

2. It almost feels as if you're too diversified. You're trying to use multiple methods to promote multiple sites. Keep in mind the "rug pulled out of you" can happen with paid traffic too. Ask people how they feel about Facebook ads :-). Everyone has a different risk profile so I can't say what's the right move. Just realize that diversification comes at the cost of mastery. I've always felt the best method is to be really good at a few things, and then funnel that cash -> investments to be more diversified.

3. I have no idea what your niche is so it's hard for me to give concrete advice. But one popular model these days is media -> products. Example, Glossier started as a blog. Then they pivoted to selling skincare stuff.

So maybe consider consolidating your efforts into a media property. Build up some organic traffic / email list so you're not so dependent on outside traffic. See what your audience wants and give it to them.

4. Also you have a lot of bright shiny object syndrome.

You are a smart person, but you need to focus more.

03-04-2021 05:41 PM #3 fap911 (Member)

Thank you so much for taking the time to provide me with a thoughtful and constructive response!


Quote Originally Posted by dr_ngo View Post
It sounds like you're trying to combine multiple weapons into one.

I'm not a fan of the "blog style format" for landing pages. It CAN work, but those are fake blog / advertorial style that are designed to push people to a specific offer. It sounds like you're trying to have your cake and eat it to. Don't reinvent the wheel. People DO use paid traffic to grow blogs. But the style is usually either:

A. Quiz funnel
B. Lead magnet / eBook giveaway
C. Selling a product.

A pre-sell should have one goal. Speed is important so you don't want to host it via Wordpress. Use something like Instapage or Unbounce.
You are right, I am trying to bridge the best of both worlds and struggling to figure out how to do it. I know there are compromises but wasn't sure if it was worth even considering pursuing such an idea. The problem with the format listed above is that my reputation is on the line with the sites I've nurtured. So it couldn't be very aggressive because of that - this likely means low response rate as a result.

So by this definition I'm already on a path where my idea won't work because it's far easier to be aggressive when you're able to push offers anonymously.


Quote Originally Posted by dr_ngo View Post
"Although by the same token if they start cruising around and find other products/offers they're interested in, there could still be some monetary gain there." This is wishful thinking. The slowness of the page combined with the distracting elements = overall lower conversion rate.
That's what I was afraid of, glad you confirmed.

Quote Originally Posted by dr_ngo View Post
Other thoughts:

1. You are right to want to build a long term asset.

2. It almost feels as if you're too diversified. You're trying to use multiple methods to promote multiple sites. Keep in mind the "rug pulled out of you" can happen with paid traffic too. Ask people how they feel about Facebook ads :-). Everyone has a different risk profile so I can't say what's the right move. Just realize that diversification comes at the cost of mastery. I've always felt the best method is to be really good at a few things, and then funnel that cash -> investments to be more diversified.

3. I have no idea what your niche is so it's hard for me to give concrete advice. But one popular model these days is media -> products. Example, Glossier started as a blog. Then they pivoted to selling skincare stuff.

So maybe consider consolidating your efforts into a media property. Build up some organic traffic / email list so you're not so dependent on outside traffic. See what your audience wants and give it to them.

4. Also you have a lot of bright shiny object syndrome.

You are a smart person, but you need to focus more.
Wow you hit the nail on the head. I think #4 is probably my biggest issue. I have had a difficult time seeing things through because I'll go into a project with full speed ahead and then just short of the finish line will switch into something else.

One of my current projects is in Nutra - started out as a dropshipping business but then I found my wholesalers cost me more than buying from Amazon so switched it to affiliate. Since it's more informational I can get a little more aggressive here.

The other one that has really taken off is more around lifestyle toys like cars, boats, airplanes, etc. where my audience is quite affluent but I can't do a hard sell because this is where my reputation is on the line. However this has been my income-producing asset for the past year - I'm just challenged trying to scale it to higher levels without upsetting the "exclusiveness" of the site or alienating my existing clients.

Lots to think about but again, really appreciate your advice!

03-04-2021 06:12 PM #4 dr_ngo ()

Bright shiny objection syndrome's not easy to overcome. What helps me is:
a. Results only happen from finished projects. A graveyard of half-finished projects is wasted effort.
b. Once I get a goal, I'm in action mode. Meaning I'm focused on "doing" and I shut off sources of new ideas for a while. It's hard to focus when you're exposed to podcasts, FB groups, etc. on a daily basis with the latest and greatest idea.

The biggest false belief I'm seeing is you associate high converting with hurting your reputation. You have to unlearn this to make progress.

It's possible to convert without being "aggressive or hard selling." It's possible to make a ton of money, serve your audience,and improve your reputation. The best thing to is to find affluent brands with good reputations, and reverse engineer what's working for them.

"I'm just challenged trying to scale it to higher levels without upsetting the "exclusiveness" of the site or alienating my existing clients."

Louis Vuitton, Porsche, etc. These are all brands who have scaled while maintaining exclusiveness / brand affinity. It is possible.

03-05-2021 01:24 AM #5 fap911 (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by dr_ngo View Post
Bright shiny objection syndrome's not easy to overcome. What helps me is:
a. Results only happen from finished projects. A graveyard of half-finished projects is wasted effort.
b. Once I get a goal, I'm in action mode. Meaning I'm focused on "doing" and I shut off sources of new ideas for a while. It's hard to focus when you're exposed to podcasts, FB groups, etc. on a daily basis with the latest and greatest idea.
Very true and a great way to put it into perspective!

Funny thing is that I have reached a decent level of success and remember the work and focus it took to get there. But for some reason now I do keep getting distracted. Let me go off an punch myself in the face a few times to get back in the groove again!

Quote Originally Posted by dr_ngo View Post
The biggest false belief I'm seeing is you associate high converting with hurting your reputation. You have to unlearn this to make progress.

It's possible to convert without being "aggressive or hard selling." It's possible to make a ton of money, serve your audience,and improve your reputation. The best thing to is to find affluent brands with good reputations, and reverse engineer what's working for them.

"I'm just challenged trying to scale it to higher levels without upsetting the "exclusiveness" of the site or alienating my existing clients."

Louis Vuitton, Porsche, etc. These are all brands who have scaled while maintaining exclusiveness / brand affinity. It is possible.
You are correct. And coincidentally my site is comprised of Porsche owners, many of whom I've built online and personal friendships throughout the years, who would jump on a recommendation but would be turned off by the hard sell.

In thinking about this further I will be keeping my strategies and methods separate based on what I'm trying to accomplish instead of trying to apply everything across the board. The Porsche site will get the targeted, upscale content, while the other sites can receive more traditional and aggressive treatments that should hopefully both result in their own versions of success.

Thanks again, your advice is truly appreciated!

04-02-2021 01:57 PM #6 mobinner (Member)

The best way and the most successful way is to find a few good men and sources to scale one offer. No matter what you do the traffic will ultimately change causing a drop in performance, The good news is that you can find a similar offer and start again. In my opinion the business is based upon the traffic that allowed. Anyon can grab a link to push an offer. The hard part is the traffic.

04-03-2021 09:51 PM #7 thedudeabides (Moderator)

Hey @fap911 I'm late to the party here but thought I'd chime in as you raise some good questions.

Quote Originally Posted by fap911 View Post
I've had by far the most success with SEO but it is difficult to scale quickly and you're at the whim of whatever new algorithm changes happen frequently.

Then I jump on here and see all of the successes with paid media and the ability to grow quickly exponentially which is absolutely intriguing to me.
SEO is a great broad skillset to have. If you've done 5 figures a month with it I think you're primed to build something huge with the addition of media buying. It's easy to get distracted by big numbers affiliates are doing without considering the margin they are making or the down periods they go through trying to nail down the next big offer. The margins are getting thinner as bids rise and it's smart to think of more long-term and stable methods to making money online.

Quote Originally Posted by fap911 View Post
Another disadvantage I know of is that blogs traditionally load slower than HTML landing pages, so this would be a potential concern as the difference between a lander loading in 1 second versus 5 could be significant.
There are a handful of ways to solve this nowadays. While the average Wordpress blog is likely slow, you can certainly take measures to improve performance via caching and reducing plugins, bloat etc to get it within range of raw CDN performance. In the past I would use Wordpress + Cloudflare page rules to cache the page so it would be served entirely from Cloudflare. That's the more user friendly solution. However nowadays there is an ever better solution that lets you get the best of both worlds: the performance of a CDN combined with a content management platform in what's commonly referred to as a static site generator, but it requires a bit of tech setup. Hugo is a popular one I've used and worth checking out. This channel is worth checking out if you're interested in going down that road.


Quote Originally Posted by fap911 View Post
My issue with what most do on here though as that I want to build a business that I retain some ownership of. With the traditional affiliate marketing model you are essentially a pass-through to the vendor. This is obviously a great model but my concern is that it requires constant input in order to keep moving forward and you lose a lot of control based on vendors changing offers and maybe even stealing your funnel.

I have a handful of websites that I've been growing over the past few years. A couple of them have a decent following so I was wondering if maybe creating some sort of a hybrid model could work for me. Here is my idea - create landing pages in a blog-style format within my website that are basically pre-landers for offers. This would give me the opportunity to promote using paid media but also send additional traffic to my website. Now I know the danger here is that a blog-style post has a lot of distractions which could take away from the call-to-action. Although by the same token if they start cruising around and find other products/offers they're interested in, there could still be some monetary gain there.


But back to advantages, I am able to control the experience a little more and build an asset that I can continue to build upon in the long-term.

It's true you're pretty much growing somebody else business and getting none of the equity or backend revenue and on a constant hamster wheel.

One of the best ways to change that in my opinion is to start building up an email list with paid media. You can simply insert your lead capture form before going to an offer to build up a list fast all while you break-even or profit on affiliate offers. It's something I've been employing with e-commerce to great effect but I'm sure will work just as well if not better with leadgen offers.


Quote Originally Posted by fap911 View Post
So from all of your perspectives, am I complicating matters by even considering doing this? Should I just forge ahead with the traditional model many of you are using and focus more on finding and converting leads? Ultimately I want to make the big bucks but also don't want the same thing that happened to me with SEO to happen again with paid. At one point I was clearing $XX,XXX monthly but then the old Google updates killed it all. I'd like to be able to diversify my methods to keep from having the rug pulled out of under me again.


Thoughts?
Not at all; I think you're smart to really think over a long-term strategy before diving in.

One thing to really consider with all of this is short-term cash vs long-term brand building.

Many of the products, offers, and marketing in this space are designed to get you to buy NOW, with aggressive angles, and setting expectations high for what are often mediocre products or services. They have to because with paid media either they convert or they're gone forever for the most part.

This kind of churn and burn mentality often leaves little room for repeat customers and referrals by word of mouth

Many affiliate offers are really just pure arbitrate plays when you get down to it. There is often no back-end, no brand, no store for repeat customers, no email sequence etc. Even among the best offers out there, it's really quite shocking just how little is being done to build real lasting businesses around them.

If I had to start all over, I'd use paid media to build up email lists fast and then re-invest money into building out SEOd sites and communities. I'd also focus on verticals that already have a good amount of organic searches instead of chasing after "As Seen on TV" type products which often get lots of paid traffic but die as soon as it's turned off. This way you also have some sort of exit strategy if you wish to sell one of your sites, of which SEOd sites can fetch a nice multiplier on places like empireflippers.com

Focus on putting out good content to your email list and site/community which, segmenting buyers and non-buyers, and getting engagement and repeat visitors. The more trust and engagement they have the more likely they'll be to buy whatever is you're selling them. Or put another way, start thinking more about the lifetime value of a lead and customer and that'll force you to move in a more profitable and sustainable direction.

By doing those things I think you'll be miles ahead of the competition and the path will become clearer in terms of what business you really want to build.

04-04-2021 12:38 AM #8 jack_l (Veteran Member)

Brilliant thoughts by @thedudeabides - extremely well put.
@fap911 - I think the "ideal" affiliate model today is a combination of SEO + Paid Traffic + Email Marketing.

This is what we're trying to do right now with two sites...

We were already doing well with paid traffic so that has continued...

The SEO is starting to do well now that each have gotten past the Google Sandbox stage... one site around 100 organic search visitors per day and the other at 200... and (through luck mostly) the top article on the first site is an affiliate one and it made 1000$ last month. (tiny numbers yes but remember these sites are brand new and literally just started ranking very recently)

Only thing we haven't started yet is the email marketing... and I think it will also be the hardest part of the trifecta...

But yeah, the site that best encapsulates the model I'm referring to is https://www.thepennyhoarder.com/

-They rank like crazy SEO-wise - see their Ahrefs profile here: https://jmp.sh/tP0zYyR

-They run listicles on Taboola/Outbrain/Dianomi (and likely Facebook I imagine) with financial affiliate offers aimed at the 20-50 year old demographic: https://www.thepennyhoarder.com/bank...000-checking/?

-And they have an email newsletter as well.

Now, I'll admit, I'm not a big fan of theirs (they seem pretty 'corporate' at this point and their writers often talk about how awful crypocurrency is and un-ironically drop phrases like "toxic masculinity", so pretty cringey) but in terms of the business model, I think they have it absolutely perfect.

You wouldn't need to do it in the financial vertical either but any evergreen vertical...

So yeah, I don't think you're spread too thin at all in terms of concept, the key is just perfecting one aspect of the business at a time in a manner that can stand alone, rather than trying to do everything at once and not making any progress.

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