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I'm First, and Therefore the Best! (35)

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First of all, thank you to @twinaxe and @vortex for their guides. I'm using both on this journey. I'm sure I'll make plenty of mistakes along the way. And thank you to @jaybot as well, I'm following your journey and rooting for you.

So, after many questions here, I went with Spain and a Grocery Voucher offer. Also, thanks to Jaybot I decided to start on Pushground as it seemed to meet all the criteria Twinaxe suggested as a place to start testing.

As to why I choose groceries, basically spying found primarily phones when it came to sweeps. Yet, past experience with Facebook had taught me there was plenty of interest in food and it tended to be older, which the networks want. With everything going on in the world, I also thought it might be more desirable to people as well. My next campaign may well be phones depending upon how this does, but I had to start somewhere and this seems as good as any.

Traffic: Pushground
Offer: Branded Grocery Gift card
Network: Big Bang Ads and YepAds
Landers: Twinaxe's Gift Box and a Quiz I translated using Google Translate
Payout: Average of $0.70.
Daily Budget: $24. 10 x 2 Landers x 2 Offers X 0.70 Average CPA.

So make some mistakes right out of the gate. I didn't quite understand Pushground's targeting. When I selected Android 4.0+, I thought I was excluding all versions of Android 4.0 (past experience has taught me most likely to be bots), instead I was excluding Android 4.0 and everything newer. Fixed that and quickly started getting traffic.

For the setup, I did classic Push, excluded Android 4.0, Wifi only (does that matter with classic Push?), 1/24 frequency, RON, To Start Campaign Frequency (something I've only seen on Pushground), Freshness up to 1 day, and I selected the recommended bid.

A couple of notes about Pushground. Their AMs are easy to reach, quick to respond and quick to try and help. Also, make sure to ask about a deposit bonus, there appears to be one for STM members. Thanks again to @jaybot, mentioning your case study was sufficient proof to get the bonus.

Right away I noticed the Gift Box had an extremely low CTR. I was lazy when I did it, so I redid the winbox png and reuploaded it. Overnight the CTR came back up closer to the lander. Almost immediately I also got a conversion at BBA. Spend was fairly low and checking this morning, average win rate is about 33%.

As far as creatives, I followed the pattern of Twinaxe and Jaybot and went with very generic ones. New Message, Free Groceries?, then mentioning the prize in the description. I also used basic notification icons without a big image.

Within 24 hours I had 3 conversions on the Big Bang Ads offer, so I turned YepAds off. I got 1 conversion yesterday from the Quiz lander and 1 each overnight from the Quiz and Gift Box landers. All this was within 24 hours of starting. So at this point I'm going to let it run to gather some more data and review Vortex's guide about when to cut placements and creatives. I also need to gather more data to settle on a lander.

All questions, comments, suggestions and requests are welcome.

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Is there anything more depressing than seeing your lander on a spy tool and realizing that you made a mistake?

Oh well, got to remember to pay more attention going forward.

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Good start. BBA and YepAds are good networks.

All of my landers are full of mistakes and all over spy tools. Not depressing at all

ES is tough. I don't know why. Looks like you have good progress already though!

Since you have some conversions already, it seems like a decent offer. Next, I would split test a few basic things, Wifi + 3G, 3G only, and play with some more creatives to see if it helps. I never bother with Android OS versions, I would just target all, but that's up to you.

Don't forget to try to share as much info as possible. Don't worry, no one is going to steal your campaign

We also love screenshots because we're visual creatures.

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Thanks @jaybot. It wasn't so much that it was on the spytool, but the mistake. After all, didn't @twinaxe say be better than jaybot? Just teasing.

Also, Anstrex reported the network as Megapush, so I assume that Pushground is brokering. It is possible that it was mislabeled as well.

Sadly no conversions since I turned off the YepAds offer.



Stats look pretty bad to me.

Also, here are the creatives for 06-19.



The CTR seems decent, so suggests that my landers may just suck. Very open to feedback on that.

Finally, it isn't spending out, roughly 50% of the budget was spent yesterday. Also I realized my math was off and it should have been $28 a day instead of $24. Not a huge issue at this point.

So kind of conflicted, do I keep tweaking landers, do I duplicate it to 3G, or do I start a new campaign.

I appreciate your feedback jaybot, I was kind of hoping twinaxe would give some as well.

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So following advice from @jaybot I cloned it to carrier. I also switched out the worst performing icons with other generic, notification style icons. I'll post more updates tomorrow.

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Eww. That didn't work out too well.

Personally, I would move on to a new offer just eyeballing those stats. A good SOI should convert better than that after that much spend.

But. It's hard to tell.

If I were to continue with it, I would drop all the creatives with no conversions and just run the ones that have converted so far.

If moving on, since you already have the landers, try to find a similar offers and just split test those with the same funnel.

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Thanks. I did just get another conversion.

The CTR seems crazy low for a Sweep, no? I'm really thinking either there is just no interest in the offer or I've botched the landers. My thought is probably the landers since the CTR off the creatives seems decent.

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Google Translate isn´t that good for longer text like landers.

Better try to find landers with same text in your target language and use the text on your lander then.

Or invest few $ to get it properly translated.

When you try to save at the wrong end you often pay twice.

Based on the formula it would be $28

Based on what stats did you turned off the YepAds offer?

Megapush has traffic from many different networks.

Apart from that it´s common that many networks broker traffic.

Do you mean creative CTR or LP CTR?

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Yeah, I think that is probably the issue. Oh well, live and learn.


I realized that later, quite a few mistakes on my first one. Better to get it out of the way early.



That BBA got 3 conversions in 24 hours to 0 from YepAds. I am kind of hybridizing yours and @vortex's 40 day one. From what I understand of her system, you want to quickly get down to one offer to test the landers and then add back in offers once you have a good converting lander.


I'm thinking the LP CTR is horrible, and the creative CTR is ok for now. If you disagree, please let me know.

Looks like time to turn these off, go to One Hour Translation and get better translations. The good news is so much will be the same that as long as I stay in Spain, or even most Spanish speaking countries, I can reuse most of it again and again.

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Oh yes, sorry I misread your first post.

I thought you are only running the gift box lander.

All fine, you did it right.



12% and 8% isn´t horrible

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Thanks. I'm getting the gift box translated now. And I'm surprised, I would think that is pretty bad. It is even lower now. Both are just over 9% now.

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You’re too used to FB traffic

CTR for push usually ranges between 10 and 40% depending on the geo.

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@iwanttofly Cool follow along man, push ads are something I wanna try once I get a profitable pops camp.

Also just a heads up in case you're using One Hour Translation or Mars Translation - you can get good quality and affordable translations from Fiverr ($5 - $15 / lander).

Found that out after i paid like $60 for 500 words on OHT fml lol

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Thanks, even then I'm still low. I went ahead and shut this one off. 1 conversion off Wifi and 1 off Mobile traffic. May not be enough interest in the offer, or could be the landers are weak. I'm in the process of building two more campaigns to start on Monday. Just need the offers approved.

Thanks. The nice thing about the Gift Box lander is that it basically never has to be updated. Just swap out the Sponsor, Brand and Prize and update the pics and you're good to go.

I may take advantage of this with future landers though.

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Update:

ES #2 , Amazon
Traffic: Pushground
Offer: Amazon Gift card
Network: Big Bang Ads, Gotzha and YepAds
Landers: Twinaxe's Gift Box, 2 Different Quiz Landers
Payout: Average of $0.70.
Daily Budget: $90.90. 10 x 3 Landers x 3 Offers X 1.01 Average CPA.

I really want to do a spinner, but editing that spinner wheel kills me. I'll probably just go on fiverr and get someone to remove all the prizes from one and then add my own as I want.

Just went live. I carried over the best copy and images from the previous campaigns and added in another new icon to see how it does.

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Well, already off to a much better start.

5 Conversions within 24 hours. 1 offer with 1, and the other 2 both with 2. Of the landers, 4 conversions came from 1, 1 from another, and the 3rd got 0. So I went ahead and turned off the losing landers and decided to focus on testing the offers. Still not spending out though.

I'll probably duplicate it to include Carrier, but even that probably won't spend the allocated testing budget. @twinaxe, would it be a good idea to go to another source for additional testing data or wait to get the funnel dialed in first on one source?

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And then suddenly yesterday fell flat.

Here are the offers for yesterday. After I posted, no more conversions yesterday. But then I get 2 more this morning, one for each offer.



Also, here are the creatives. The timezones don't quite match, so it is showing the conversions from this morning as today as well.



I turned off the worst performers to send more traffic to those that are converting.

I'm not really sure where to go here, other than create more campaigns to continue testing. Should I let this one run longer or call it a day?

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In the meantime I have an even easier version of it, will try to update the thread when I don´t forget it

Only go for other sources when you have a good funnel already or when the original source doesn´t have enough volume so that you need to check another one to receive more traffic.

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Fantastic!

That is kind of the issue, there isn't enough traffic to spend out the testing budget as is. So either I need to add carrier, expand user freshness or go to other sources. But I'm not really sure the metrics say continue this one or not either.

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When in testing phase, you are going for quality, not quantity.

There is obviously tons of room to scale if you want to open up user freshness.

But I wouldn’t burn money for no reason. Let it run on whatever you have now until it reaches the full test budget (or half of it).

There is no rule saying you have to run out of a daily budget every day.

If you really, really want to spend a little faster, open up one more level of freshness. 0-2 days should be enough, but up to 7 days won’t kill you either.

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I get what you're saying, but it also needs to gather some data, and right now it really isn't gathering data fast enough to optimize.

I went ahead and cloned it for 1-2 days of freshness. You use Voluum as well, right? Do you direct to the same Voluum campaign or create a new one? I went with a new one to keep the stats separate, but not sure that is the best idea.

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It sounds like it's gathering the data as fast as it can for the freshness level and targeting you've selected. If there isn't any more volume, there is no more data to collect. I like to zoom out and view the data over a minimum of a week anyway. But everyone is different.

If I clone the campaign to a separate campaign on the traffic source, then I absolutely use a different campaign in the tracker. Otherwise it can get messy real fast, especially if using any automation tools.

But. I'm fucking sloppy. Since pushground is pretty good about messing with existing camps, I would probably just keep the existing camp and check the user freshness boxes.

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Well, finally decided on Yep as the offer. Pretty close with BBA, but ROI isn't as negative. Also cut all creatives other than the best and then added in 2 new ones.

Here are the creatives yesterday.



And here are the offers for the past 72 hours.



So far no Site IDs are really standing out as bad or good. So probably just more testing to see? I blacklisted one that spent several times CPA with only 1 conversions. One has 2, which is good. The rest are in that Lottery conversion stage.



I did create a separate campaign for 1-2 day freshness, not a ton more traffic there. I'd probably need to expand even further to find that. I decided to keep it separate in Pushground so I could adjust the bid.

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Decided to launch an iPhone one as well with a Spinner and Gift Box lander. I'll post an update with it as well tomorrow.

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I can't believe I found this thread so late. Subscribed so I don't miss any more updates


Karolina

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The formuly is for total test budget, not daily.

What´s your targeting?

When it´s too specific or there is just too low volume available maybe you should check if it´s worth to run it at all.

Or is it still the ES campaign we are talking about?

Then there should be enough volume when you don´t target too specific, don´t bid too low and when your creatives have a good enough CTR.

Yup, correct

Yes, 0-2 days are ok to test.

When you want to target 1-2 days user freshness don´t target 1-2 days only.

Whenever you want to lower the quality level (freshness or activity) it´s better to not only target that quality but to target the better quality as well.



That way you receive more volume and better overall quality.

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Thank you. So that is the total allocated for the entire testing phase and not just one day?

Yes, ES. 0-1 day initially. I created a 1-2, but turned that off and expanded the initial to 0-2. I am doing classic Push notifications only, so only Android is an option. I also set it to Wifi only. I have turned off a Site or two that had high spend with no conversions, but that is it. As far as CTR, this is what it is doing.

This is the creatives for the entire time it has been running. There is one more off the bottom that isn't showing up, I added it recently, but doesn't seem to be performing. For creatives, I have used generic notification icons with no big images. I have tested a few different headlines, the active one is New Message, And then Click To Win a 500 Euro Amazon Gift Card. Obviously in Spanish.



Here are the offers from yesterday, at this point only the top one is active.



The only active lander is your Gift Box one, translated to Spanish by OHT.

Looking at this, what would you optimize on, or would you abandon it and why? Also, is there more data you'd like to see?

I know one of the keys is testing lots of offers, but there definitely seems to be interest in Amazon gift cards and the selected offer does seem to convert.

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So a bit late in updating. I turned off the Amazon one as it didn't seem to be going anywhere.

For the iPhone one, down to just the Gotzha offer and spinner lander. Voluum did confuse me though, the optimization calculator favored the gift box on ROI, even though its estimated ROI range was lower and it had fewer conversions.

Here are the creatives for the past 7 days. I only included the ones with conversions. Sadly none are profitable.



Also, here are the lander stats for the past 7 days as well.



And the top spending site IDs for the past 7 days, sorted by conversions. Only one has more than 1, and I turned it off due to the high spend and being negative.



I believe there is potential, but not really sure how best I should be testing and optimizing at this point. Continue to switch in creatives, look at new landers, continue to cut unprofitable site IDs?

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Yes

For this targeting there should be quite some volume.

Why did you set it to WiFi only?

Really man, I would move on.

LP CTR is ok so offer should convert better to make it worth it.

And with only 10 converions in the last 7 days that campaign wont make it, it´s way too less.

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Thought it was wise to separate wifi and mobile? I guess not...

Yeah, I put it aside and found something that is barely profitable in a small Geo. Need to optimize it, but the volume is so small it is hard to get the data to see what to optimize on.

That said, combining wifi and mobile will definitely help on volume to optimize.

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@twinaxe can you share some typical CRs for Sweeps? I feel like these are abnormally low, to the point that there is a problem with the offer.

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Sometimes it is, sometimes not

For example on pops it makes sense because as soon as your lander "pops" the user will see it.

In that case he will be online on the targeted connection.

Same for banners, there the user also is only on the targeted connection when he visits a website and sees your banner.

On push however the notifications get send to the users device and when the user doesn´t click right away the connection can change in the meantime (late clicks).

Most clicks will happen fast but from my experience running WiFi and 3G together isn´t bad on push as long as the offer/the conversion flow allows it so I just run it together.

When you then see big differences in performance you can still split it.

No, I won´t do it because I don´t want you to be focused then on only these numbers

And there is not THAT typical CR for sweeps.

It can vary depending if you run SOI/DOI sweeps, CC submit sweeps, Pin submit sweeps.

It can also vary depending on the geo you run, if you run desktop or mobile, what quality level you target and so on.

The "good" CR can even vary in one campaign.

Let´s say you run a campaign with 2 different SOI sweep offer for the same product, 1 offer has $1 payout and the other offer has $2 payout.

Then in theory you would need only half of the CR for the $2 offer to get the same ROI as for the $1 offer.

Don´t try to find a typical CR, try to find a CR that gets your campaigns running profitable.

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I understand where you are coming from, but it also helps to have numbers where you can go, "Ok, something is wrong here."

But looking at what you posted in another thread, looks like everything was above 2% of visits for SOI? So that does suggest there was an issue here.

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I'll throw out some numbers then.

For SOI/Pin submit sweeps on push, somewhere between 2% and 20% is normal range for most Tier 2-3 geos.

For CC subs, like 0.01%

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Really, don´t try to find out average or good numbers.

As I said above, the range for "normal" is rather big.

You don´t do yourself a favor when you try to find more or less fixed numbers because campaigns and stats and mostly everything in affiliate marketing can be pretty dynamic.

Numbers that are "normal" in one campaign can be completely off in the next campaign.

Instead of trying to find a "normal" or "good" CR better just focus in getting your campaigns running on profit.

Then it doesn´t matter if the CR is at 0.1% or at 50%
When it´s making profit it´s good, if not it´s not good.

If it´s good scale, if not try to get in profit and when it´s not possible move on.

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