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Push Optimization Delima - Push Optimization Paradox (18)

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Hi,

So now i followed the optimizing rules that i know from this forum. Cut zones that are negative ROI and followed carefully methods that avoid overoptimization.

So now i'm left with 50 green zones at a CPC bid of 0.03 USD. Of course it's normal for the traffic to drop after optimization but now i'm left with a low volume so i increase the bid to 0.04, 0.05 and up to 0.1 but now its not green anymore . Even when i increase the bid to just 0.04 it's not green.

If you ask any Traffic Sources like Plugrush, Propeller etc. they would always say that if you increase your BID your traffic and conversion rate would increase. Well, the first statement is TRUE that traffic will increase with increasing bid but the second statement is not always true which says that increasing bid would increase conversion rate.

Should i cut this traffic, offer combination and find another one ? i don't know what to do anymore because it's optimized already.

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If you can not get more zones that work at 0.03 USD from this traffic source, maybe try other traffic sources to see how it goes.

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Are you running only one smartlink offer, or split testing it against another one? If not, maybe it’s worth testing another one.

It is true that when you cut zones traffic will decrease, however it may happen that when you have a negative roi zone, then you increase the bid, the zone may start to convert better. You could be in a situation where due to the low bid you are getting just a small portion of a zone traffic and your chances to turn it profitable are just very low.

If after testing all possible options your roi still remains negative, maybe you need to start testing a specific product offer.

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it's not smartlink. it's a fixed offer at 3$ per conversion DOI.


@platinum

I already sign-up with TheOptimizer and will be using it asap .

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Did you change the bids in the running campaign or did you test different bids in separate campaigns?

Sure, every trafficsource would rather recommend to increase bid than to decrease it

But it´s true that mostly quality traffic is more expensive.

Dude, how shall we give real advice when we basically know nothing about your campaign?

When you say it´s already optimized do you mean then that it´s trimmed down to 1 offer/1 lander already?

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I tested bids in separate campaigns.

Basically i got the best converting funnel out of 4 landers. Yes 1 lander 1 offer. So it's down to just removing the negative roi zones.

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Alright, thanks for the info.

Do you run the same placements in all the different bids?

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yes, same placements in all the different bids.

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Ok, so the campaigns were all exactly the same (LPs, offers, placements, targeting) and the only difference is the bid?

When you say 50 green zones, how many conversions do these green zones have and what´s the ROI?

When you also count placements with only 1-2 conversions and a low ROI to these 50 green zones then it can happen that they quickly turn into red when you have to pay more for the traffic.

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exact campaign, they are clones the only difference is the bid.


Here's a sample, actual propeller zone id's replaced.

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Well, these zones have very low conversion numbers.

With such numbers each conversion less can turn the tables.

When you only have 1 conversion on a "green" placement then only one conversion less will turn the placement into red.

With so low numbers it´s normal to have hefty swings,when you run higher volume then usually the performance becomes more stable.

These placements all have 1 or 2 coversions, only 4 placements have 3 conversions.
But such numbers are still too low to call such placements reliable and stable converters.

In the end it shows that they converted but it doesn´t tell much about longterm or stable performance of these placements.

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so i need to run the campaign longer to know which zones are really green? how do i consider which zones are really green, any criteria you can suggest ?

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Yes, to get a better impression about the zones performance you need to gather more data.

You often have zones with only 1 early conversion that pushes these zones into very high ROI.

But when these conversions are only so called "lottery conversions" it means that these zones just randomly got a conversion but won´t convert again.

When you then send more traffic to these zones it can be that they continue converting, then they are good.
It can also happen that they don´t convert again and then they can turn from a profitable green zone into a negative red zone very fast.

To know if a zone is really good or not you need more conversions and a good and stable zone will send more conversions.

I usually have different whitelists when I have enough stats.

The lowest one is for zones with at least 5 conversions, this is enough to show that a zone is converting not only once but more often.

Of course it´s still no guarantee that this zone will definitely work but it´s a pretty good indicator already.

Then I also have lists with zones that converted at least 10 times, 20 or 25 times.

The more conversions, the smaller the list but also higher quality.

The absolute minimum I would use for a WL is 3 conversions for a zone.

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thanks a lot , i thought those zone ids with 1 conversion at just a few impression were the best placements because of the very high roi, thanks for pointing out that they are just "lottery conversions".

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Yes, it can be tempting when you see 3000% ROI or so.

But very often such placements don´t continue to deliver and turn into red later.

That´s why it´s better to keep them running longer before you consider them in a WL so that you can see if they are sable converters or not.

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Another question, since i'm moving out of Propeller and focusing more on AdMaven, Pushground and Evadav, I am sort of having to reorient my strategy for whitelist and blacklist since those 3 sources are a bit different than Propeller. My strategy is summarized below, i'm looking at two strategies to implement .please let me know if this is a good idea or a bad idea.

Strategy 1 ( Drilldown )

Step 1. Run a test campaign to check which "Supply ID" or "Publisher Feed ID" would have at least 1 conversion and blacklist those that has zero conversions or the ROI is less than or equal to - 30%.

Step 2. Run a whitelist campaign with the "Supply ID" or "Publisher Feed ID" that hast at least 1 conversion and ROI at equal to or greater than - 29 % . ( Whitelisted "Supply ID" or "Publisher Feed ID" comes from Step 1 )

Step 3. Blacklist "Source" or "Site ID" from Step 2 which has negative ROI.

Step 4. Optimize




Strategy 2 ( Straightforward same as Propeller which only has Zone ID )

Step 1. Run a test campaign to check "Source" or "Site ID" that would have at least 1 conversion and blacklist those that has zero conversions or the ROI is less than or equal to - 30% . ( Focus only on "Source" or "Site ID" )

Step 2. Optimize

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Hey mate, first of all - happy to hear you've decided to try out our platform.
Please DM me, I'd love to help you out as much as possible.
You also deserve a $50 bonus upon your first deposit on our platform - hope you've got it, and if not, please contact us.
Regarding your strategy, on push ads the users are getting a push notification regardless to the original source in which they were collected.
It means that most of the time, there's no connection between the original source (ZoneID on Propeller) and the user.

On our platform the traffic is divided into quality groups which are called publisher-feeds, we allow to adjust the bid per each publisher-feed in order to control your ROI better and be more accurate.
The "right" way to operate is to RON, then start adjusting the bids per each feed.
Later I would recommend to test whether you can blacklist some sources (because sometimes 1 source can spoil everything), and if it doesn't help - then shutting down a feed completely.

As I mentioned, I would love to help you out with bids, GEOs, creatives, recommendations on how to work on our platform, etc
Good luck!

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if you are used to using propellerads then Strategy 2 seems better.

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