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Targeting $1k-Days With PUSH! (37)

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Hello everyone,

I hope all is well with you!

Starting this follow along to keep us accountable, make use of the great minds and barrels of experience on the forum, and most importantly (ideally!) to pave the way for others to replicate our pending success with PUSH campaigns!

Brief summary: My business partner and I (he's also on the forum so may chime in!) have been in IM for a number of years, started out in email marketing (MMO offers) before transitioning into dropshipping (before it was mega trendy) using FB ads as the traffic source. We currently run a 5-figure marketing agency, FB lead-gen as a service.

We both have always wanted to make a success of CPA marketing, and have had a handful of failed attempts at native (bad offer selection and not spending enough money) I especially dream of being able to do what I'm best at (managing campaigns) and less what I hate doing (speaking with clients, hunting for new work, relying on other companies, etc).

Our goal is to get to get 1k a day in profits with PUSH campaigns, and to then transition in to native. We feel PUSH will be a safer training ground for us to learn the ropes, and develop the appropriate relationships. We understand 1k in profit a day with PUSH is ambitious but you've gotta have proper goals right!?

So this is where we are at currently:

Budget - $50/day until profitable. We don't want to go over the top (made that mistake in the past!) but we want to get a decent volume of data when starting out

Networks - Peerfly, Mobidea, Sinum Vendo, Addiliate, Affiliaxe, Gotzha, Mappstreet, Max Bounty, Mundo Media, Clickdealer, Adcombo, RevenueAds, A4D. Best to have options! For traffic we have Zeropark and Propeller (for now).

Tools - Voluum for tracking, and hosting set up taught in 40-day tutorial, with the buckets etc. We have Adplexity Mobile for spying.

Experience - We've spent close to half a million on paid traffic collectively over the last few years or so, and have done a pretty good job at it. Strong at writing ad copy, testing images, analysing data, etc. I personally believe discipline is the key ingredient to a successful campaign.

Landing Pages and Images - We just hired a great guy in Morrocco who's going to be doing our landing pages and images. Great developer and skilled graphic designer.

So with all that said I'm confident we have everything we need to get started! Please inform me if otherwise!

Action Steps for First week (commencing March 4th 2018)

- Hosting, postbacks, and accounts set up (done)- Developer producing 4 landing pages for us to split test
- Sticking with English for the time being but will be targeting multiple countries
- Request best perform iPhone sweeps offers from AM's
- Deposit $1,000 on to Zeropark account
- Check with AM's that offer URL's are correct and working before going live

- We are planning to test 5 offers at any given time $10 a day each at $50/day
- We are planning to use just ONE landing page to begin with, and will then split-test the landers against any offers that show promise. We will then split-test ad copy/creative after that. Is this a smart approach?
- We will start with 5 ad variants with different images/copy
- We are fully prepared to fail miserably in our first days/weeks. This will be a great learning experience either way!
- We will likely bombard you senseless with questions once underway as we've never ran a PUSH campaign before

So nothing exciting to share at this stage, but I am sure that will change. Apologies if the above is a bit lengthy. If there's anything you'd recommend we do differently or valuable guidance you're willing to offer we are all ears!

Thanks for your time, look forward to keeping you all updated!

Cheers,

Popey

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Good luck! I will follow this thread.

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Alrighty, very nice! Let's do this Popey, we will get you there! Awaiting your Skype messages

Also following this thread.

Bobby

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Good Luck @popey91 !

If you need any help or advice at any time, please to not hesitate to reach out to support: support@zeropark.com we will be happy to help you!

Zeropark.

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Thank you sir!

Reaching out to you now Bobby!

Appreciate that, thank you. I have a great account rep with you guys who has been very helpful already

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Good luck! Will follow this thread!
BTW I am AM Iria from Mobisummer, network focus on E-commerce. Hope that connect with you to see our potential partnership! Skype:live:tsohoiyenn

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Let me add my Good luck to the messages here!

Already subscribed to this thread. And if you have any questions about tracking or your Voluum setup, you can always count on me!

Karolina

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Looking forward to this one, should be interesting

Couple comments for you:

Currently, sweeps work better in non-english EU geos, you might want to add them to your testing plan.

Make sure to test samsung s9 and s10 too, these tend to work better with android traffic.

Do you plan to test SOI or CC submit/trial sweeps? In case you'd go after CC offers, $10 per offer won't be enough, as those offers pay up to $20 per conversion. For SOIs it should be enough.

Keep them coming, we are here and listening

Good luck!

Matej.

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Thank you Jin, and Karolina, much appreciated!

Thank you too Matej, some really valuable feedback there!

- We definitely want to test multiple geos, and languages. We understand we may be going for a tougher route with English speakers to begin with, but it is easier for us as we are English. We can get successful landers translated and branch out our testing quite quickly

- Once our pages are ready I'll be getting our developer to duplicate them all but for Samsung S9/10, so we can start testing those too pretty quickly! (seems obvious now that Samsung would convert better for Android traffic!)

- We are testing SOI to begin with as lower barrier to entry, and lower payout so we can spend $10-15 per offer to get a good idea of whether it's viable or not.

- We are focussing on one AM network for the time being, they have a good rep and tonnes of sweeps offers. We feel this will help us stay more focussed rather than trying to pick offers from 10+ networks, we will test networks 1 at a time.

We have our offers now for UK and AUS, they are SOI iPhoneXs sweeps. Our landing pages and ad images will be ready on Monday, so we will be launching then!

Thanks,

Popey

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Of course! I'll be happy to help

Don't know if you've heard about Voluum's Offers Marketplace? You can access it from your Voluum panel (FIND OFFERS tab at the top of your panel view) and it's a go-to place for browsing offers from various affiliate networks at once.
We're integrated with Addiliate, Gotzha, MaxBounty and A4D, from the ANs you mentioned above in your first post. I know you want to focus on one thing at a time, but since it's already available in your Voluum account and the Offers Marketplace Dashboard shows you a selection of recommended offers, I just want to let you know it's an option for you and suggest maybe checking it out once - to see if it's a good fit or not.
I know you have already selected the offers you plan on using right now, so my comment is more for the future and the next time - I'm just saying it now so I don't forget...

Karolina

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Any news? Were you able to launch something? Would love to hear about your initial results

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Hi everyone,

Launch was delayed by 1 day as developer ran in to some issues. Here's an update since last post:

- 3 iphone offers selected to test
- 3 landing pages complete and ready
- 5 ad images/creatives created and ready to use

We will run just 1 landing page to begin with and focus on testing offers for now.

As we speak I am doing my best to get set up with Voluum. Right barrel of laughs!

- postback set up with affiliate network
- click url placed on lander in relevant places).
- I THINK landers have been uploaded correctly, along with offers, along with traffic source (Zeropark).

At time of writing, AM and I are trying to locate URL for a test fire to check conversion fires ok.

At the moment I honestly have no idea if my Voluum set up is correct, I don't know if the creative/ad ID will pass through, device, OS, any of that. I am trying to find a tutorial on how to do it and have looked through the forum but struggling to get the info I need.

Soon as I'm confident Voluum is set up correctly I will be launching on Zeropark.

Going to be a long morning I think!

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Rep at Zeropark is an absolute hero and helping me get that side of things set up. Will update you all tomorrow with day 1 stats!

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You can share some screenshots in your follow along (of course blur any sensitive info specific to your Voluum account!) and I'll let you know if it's correct or not.

Have you heard about Voluum's free resources? We have many educational materials covering everything you need to know about tracking - step-by-step guides, video tutorials, etc.

*Step-by-step guides : here

*Video tutorials : here

There's a good chance you'll find answers to your questions there. If not - ask! I'm here

Karolina

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Thanks Karolina, much appreciated.

Zeropark rep is trying to get me Skype access to someone at Voluum for any Q's moving forward.

Like most things in life, the solution was a lot simpler than I originally thought. I BELIEVE I have everything set up correctly now, so fingers crossed conversions track, and I'm able to report properly on carrier, os, etc.

Loading up ZP account and launching now, will update you all in the next day or so!

Thanks,

Shaun

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Voluum guys are really helping a lot with the setup lately, so I'm sure they will be able to help. And in case you're not sure, you can always post some screens here, there are many Voluum users on the forum so we will be able to help too.

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Morning Everyone,

Tracking

A quick update on the first day:

- Campaigns are running on RON rather than Target, or Source at this stage

- $25 spent on iPhone sweeps offer for UK. 0 Conversions.

- Landing page CTR was 10.5% (the first lander we tested had some slots to spin a couple times before getting to the offer)

- To me this seems like a low CTR, and although we should probably kill this campaign at this stage, we're going to run for 1 more day with a completely different lander (a lot slicker, very HQ, and a simple button click to get to the offer)

- We also changed the ads as they were centred around "spin to win" the new ones are based on an Apple iPhoneXS giveaway by our sponsor

- Our images are strong but I swapped one out for an Apple logo (unsure if that will get approved!)

The questions I'd like to ask about this:

- What is a good CTR for landing page on Push? (I know there isn't a concrete answer to this but some feedback on our 10.5% would be helpful!)

- The CTR for our ads was 0.1% on average. This seems reasonable to me, but again, we have no experience with Push so some feedback would be appreciated

- Are we making the right decision changing our ads and lander for this UK offer, or should we be walking away here? over $20 spent on a $1.80 payout doesn't look great to me...

- Should we be testing more offers with other networks? We are currently testing these offers with Sinum Vendo.

- Can anyone explain how we interpret the "source" data from ZP PUSH traffic? They're a myriad of colours and animal names, like "Indigo-Peacock" for example!

Our other campaign with 2 AUS iPhone sweeps offer only spent $10, no conversions. I'm going to let this run another day before making changes. It's still on the old set up.

Thank you!

Shaun

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As with any "averages" you need to take them with a grain of salt as it simple depends on too many factors, but this is what I'm getting on average in EU countries : 15%-30%, some have less some more, you get the idea.

This can vary a lot again, I see CTR on push ads anywhere from 0.1% all the way up to 10% in extreme cases, depending on the vertical and also particular push network. Most of the spots/placements are on the lower side of things, only a bunch of them can reach that insane 10% ctrs I mentioned. But 1%-2% are quite common.

Not good, you're right. Something is wrong with the funnel. Hard to say what part is causing the problem though, the algos of push networks act weird sometimes and the results can vary dramatically based on how your ads get served.

Testing several offers from various networks is a MUST. Without having an offer that is converting, you can't really do any optimizations.

I would suggest to look at more EU geos, like FR, IT, ES, DE ...

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This is our sub id for the traffic source, a {source} will contain many {target} id's Targets are the website where the user registered from and the source is the owner of those subscription sites. So if you pause a source you will block all the targets from that source. If you block a target you are blocking one subscription website from a source. Ideally you would first optimize by source then go down and do more granular optimization by target.
@popey91 Hope this clears it up!

Zeropark.

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Thanks for the explanation ZP, I've got my head around the target/source aspect now!

Massive thanks for your feedback Matuloo, highly appreciate it. These are the changes since last post:

- LP CTR has tripled since switching new page in (over 30% now)
- I found a handful of sources in Voluum that were responsible for over half our costs so far, CTR's over 100%, or below 10%. Blocked those!
- Killed 2 creatives as other 3 have double the landing page CTR, and ad CTR is pretty consistent across the board
- Dayparted to remove hours like 3-4am

At this stage it's probably sensible to kill the campaign, but I am going to give it another 24 hours after these big changes (changes only live for 2 hours) and see if it improves things. The main thing I'm hoping is that blacklisting a load of crap will mean better results for us, and the LP CTR being over 30% now is a positive sign. I understand the general rule of thumb is to kill after 10x payout if 0 conversions, however I feel enough changes have been made to give us a fighting chance, plus we're happy to spend another days budget learning a little more about what we're doing here.

So far I feel I've learned a lot from this experience.

Here's our plans for the coming days:

- We have a 3rd lander being built, ready for use tomorrow
- The 3 existing iPhone landers we have will be duplicated for Samsung
- We will then get ALL the landing pages translated
- We will then start aggressively testing offers with multiple networks/geos. #GoHardOrGoHome

Hoping you could advise on the following:

- Languages we are planning to translate to are Spanish, French, Portuguese, and German. Are there any others you would strongly recommend? Italian? Hindi?
- What is a the best service to use for translation, in terms of accuracy, time, and cost? We don't mind paying if it's going to be done properly, and quickly!

Thank you all for your help so far, we're disappointed to not have a single conversion on the board yet but that's just made us hungrier and aggressive, so not all bad!

Popey

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As expected, the non-converting campaigns continued to be non-converting campaigns (startling, I know!) however we don't regret giving them the extra time (even though we spent around $90 in total on them!)

We now have a 3rd landing page to test, and I have got some more offers together (from Affiliaxe and Gotzha), so our day looks like this:

- $150 of Push traffic coming from ZeroPark
- $50 on USA, UK, and Germany
- 3 Landing pages split evenly
- 12 iPhone SOI offers across those GEOs.

By Monday we will have 3 Samsung landers, and a giftcard lander that we can interchange with Amazon, Bestbuy, PSN, etc. for testing other offers.

I'm hoping that it was just some bad luck with the initial offers we tested, and not an issue with ZP or anything, all AM's we've spoken to think the 3 landers we have are strong and varied (would welcome the opportunity for them to be critiqued by PM if anyone has the time and experience - looking at you Matuloo! ), so I'm confident we can get our first conversion with this setup.

We feel it's best to start with SOI, before we start pushing CC submit, lower payout makes it easier to test and in theory easier to convert.

Few quick Q's:

- Is the above sensible, or do we have too much running at once?

- Are we right in assuming we'd be best starting out with SOI?

- What's the best place/service to get LP's translated accurately?

- Can you take a successful PUSH campaign and scale it with POP traffic?

- Is PUSH a sensible place for us to start out, if so, is Zeropark the best traffic network to start with?

Really appreciate all your time and feedback, it's helping a lot!!!

Thanks,

Popey

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IT is also a good market yes. I also heard good things about Hungary, and Czech Republic didn't run there myself though.

The best, but also the most expensive of those I tried was www.onehourtranslation.com, I had good results with upwork or fiverr, just make sure you work with native speakers.

This could be a game changer too, from some reason, I had way better results with smasung sweeps compared to iphone, so definitely give it a go.

Feel free to send it over

It might make sense to focus at just one thing, when starting out. It's easier to stay focused that way.

Yup, SOIs are easier to start with, but even those high paying CC submits can work fine.

The formats are similar in a way, so yes, there is some overlap and what works with one type could also work with the other one. It will require some tweaking for sure, but if you have something running strong on push, it should also perform ok on POPs. However, there is more $ to be made with push currently, so I'd stay there.

Push is one of the best alternatives for new affiliates for sure. ZP is ok, not the best, not the worst ... propeller is a good choice for push too or richpush. You can try all of them

Keep the questions coming

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That one offer seems to be the winning one, you don't really have enough data to tell for sure yet, but I would say it's ok to cut the 2 and use the strongest one for now. It is converting the best, so you can use it as a benchmark and focus on the other parts of the funnel.

Same situation here, one of the LPs seems to be the winner. But again, it wasn't probably enough data and the 2nd best LP actually shows similar results as the top one.

You did one thing that isn't really ideal, you attempted to optimize too many things at once ... offers, lps and also creatives. The best thing to do, is to optimize one by one. Everytime you cut something, run some more traffic to the remainders and then analyze.

This is OK, very low CTR sources need to go and when the CTR goes through the roof, it's usually a sign of bot activity. High spending and non converting placements have to go too, at least at this stage, when you're still putting a working funnel together.

At this point, I would stick to that winning offer, restart one of the LPs to give it chance to convert with that offer. Run som traffic to it to see if the performance holds or not. Based on the results, we'll decide what to do next. You can also prepare more LPs in the meantime and don't forget about the ADs, there is definitely room for improvement there as well.

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Extremely valuable feedback Matuloo, thank you!

We've done as you've advised, and next time we know to be more systematic with our optimisation. Think we got a bit excited today and trigger happy with cutting things. I've also just set up a new ad/creative so we have 3 ads, and 3 landers again now.

We'll focus on getting the funnel on point, then we can always bring the other 2 offers back in, and/or test others!

We will update with stats tomorrow, and make decisions from there!

Thanks again!

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Hey @popey91

Just wanted to quickly revisit:

You totally can! it would just need a change in strategy. With push campaigns you are collecting partially motivated users, as they clicked your push to be redirected to the ad, so we must assume the offer enticed them. With Pop or domain traffic the user is shown the landing page straight away, so the LP has to create the motivation for them to convert. This is what I would say is the key difference in the visitor flow.

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Very true, while push still misses any proper targeting in terms of interest, there is still that AD that serves as a pre-sell and a way to pre-qualify users. While with POPs, it's a totally intrusive format with no intent on the users side, so the LP has to be more aggressive into-the-face style that has to grab the attention of the surfer straight away. Other than that, both formats require very broad appeal offers for them to work, as you need to appeal to as high % of the users as possible.

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Sidenote:

Our translated pages will be ready Monday. We have 11 new languages, and we got the ads done too We'll also have Samsung pages, and voucher pages, but we want to focus on getting this UK campaign in the green before we launch anything else. Need to get the process on lock!

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Hello again

Let me take a look at your questions :

Testing bids is a valid strategy and you should definitely try it. With some algos, you literally need certain position in the bidding chain, in order to reach solid performance, but it's not always the case. You can test both going up and going down with the bid. When decreasing, your goal is to get cheaper traffic and still convert on a comparable level. Going up with the bid makes sense when the funnel already works well or close to breakeven, in order to get more traffic or to improve performance. Depending on the source and available volume, you can run several cloned campaigns, each with a different bid and then compare the results. Sometimes (smaller GEOs, sources or traffic segment), you will end up competing with yourself so if you feel like your cloned campaigns are influencing each other, do not run them all at the same time.

My preferred way is to use blacklists instead of whitelists, because they limit volume to much. But you can try that too, in case you see a limited number of placements perform very well, you can target them with a WH and bid high to get more of that traffic.

Always start with the "smaller" segments. Don't kill entire sources, when you can improve their performance by pausing smaller segments within.

It looks pretty promising I would say, don't give up on it yet. There is still a lot you can try, especially on the creative side. I'm pretty sure you didn't find the VERY BEST LP or AD, you can still improve. There are also several push traffic networks out there and each of them performs a bit different.

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Using WLs is not a bad approach, you just limit the volume. But in many cases it makes sense to go this route. It depends on the particular situation. If the whole campaign doesnt look good, but there are profitable placements, it would be silly to let them go when you can target just those with a WL.

Not that easy to tell. You need to look at the bigger picture and all the data. When the source is -50% and you don't see certain targets standing out a LOT, chances are you won't be able to optimize it into profit, no matter what you cut.But if something stands out, it makes sense to focus just on that. And you can always return to these with a stronger funnel. Always look at what the data is telling you, miracles don't happen, but stronger creatives can make unprofitable targets to perform way better.

I would have to see the full data to be able to tell. Is the whole source bad, across all targets such as connection, device type etc ... if so, cut it. If something stands out, consider focusing on those parts.

2x payout is a good rule of thumb to go by. You need conversions to optimize, if they're not coming, it's pointless to buy more data. Work on the funnel, then try again.

Regions can be used for targeting, it's better to cut a region instead of the whole GEO, again because of volume. I always prefer to target the whole country, but I had many campaigns where only certain regions worked ... for example US states. So if the data justifies this, go for regions to keep at least a partial campaign running.

Matej.

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Really appreciate you running through this, it's immensely valuable!

The last 2 days we've improved things in the lander and creative department. I've just made some changes to our sources based on what you explained, which I think will make a very positive difference.

We've cloned the campaign multiple times to adjust/test bids for tomorrow, the following day we'll run with what appears to be the best bid for us and get back to optimising the sources.

I feel like a green day with this campaign is really close. Day 2 we weren't far off breakeven, the last couple days we've felt a bit uncertain and have made a few mistakes which I can see and understand now.

All in all an excellent learning process, we want to focus on getting this green for now, and then get super aggressive in testing more offers when we're more confident in the implementation of everything.

Looking forward to documenting everything we've learned soon, hopefully will be a big help to anyone starting in PUSH!

Thanks again, and have a lovely evening!

Popey

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Seems like you've been learning quite a bit fellas, good stuff - I enjoy reading your mindset on this all, it is a learning experience in the beginning and I'm glad you can mitigate the down campaigns with optimism and trusting the process.

Try one of Italy, France, UK cc sweeps and bid maybe 5-10% under recommended bids at the start and because most CC sweeps come with initial smaller caps. I believe if you have the right funnel in place (- We've had instances of offers converting as high as 10%, with a LP CTR of 40%) which it seems you've got a decent lander you will be pleasantly surprised for green.

You can make some really sick images with iPhones, the xr model backgrounds and changing/flipping colours completely shades peoples eyes are not used to seeing. Also images of hands holding iphones (painted nails tend to stick out a bit more to hold the CTR).

- You will still probably experience having to turnaround on campaigns when ROI dips, but overtime with more strike rate on winners you can get an arsenal of campaigns you can rotate. So many times just like suggested in another thread a dying campaign can be revitalised a few weeks later on sources like pop/push/adult/native

- Gotzha, WeWemedia, Yepads got some nice offers if you're on those networks but maybe test the ones you've got good r'ships with first

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Maynzie, lovely to make your acquaintance!

What an awesome post for me to digest with my morning coffee. Really appreciate you sharing this!

The initial weeks have definitely been an excellent learning experience. I hope to be able to summarise it all in a post in the near future but figure it'll hold a bit more weight if I do that once we've got some consistent profits to our name!

Everything you've said in terms of approach makes perfect sense, thank you so much. We'll definitely take that advice on board. We're strong in the areas of creative and lander, and have had our landers converted to French and Italian so we can attack those countries right away.

We understand PUSH campaigns can but a short-lived but from what we've read, it appears that you can capitalise on the traffic right now if you're willing and able to keep things fresh with landers and creatives, multiple geos, etc. We're keen to test out POP next, but may have to adjust our landers a bit. Native is our ultimate goal but we want to solidify ourselves in this space before we go there as we know that can be a very expensive education!

Thanks again Maynzie, hope you have a great weekend!

We'll be getting the new campaigns up by tomorrow at the latest, just waiting on some LP changes. We'll then update in the week!

Thanks,

Popey

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CC sweeps are actually working better for many folks, compared to SOI sweeps, so feel free to give it a go. Focus on EU geos with these, FR, IT, ES, DE ...

One thing that has worked well for me in terms of getting volume was to copy the campaigns, make multiple "clones" or campaigns with different ads. Try that

Another advantage of starting with soi sweeps is to identify the bad placements faster and you can now use this data for the CC sweeps tests. Chances are that if certain placements really bombed with SOI, they will suck for CC too.

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Awesome lads, can't wait for the next round of results! Your attitude is awesome man - love it

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Hey @popey91, any updates? How are the new campaigns doing?

Karolina

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Hi Karolina,

We paused testing as of a couple days ago. Our total figures across all testing as things stand, is over $1,600 spent, and around $550 in revenue, all on ZP.

When testing the CC sweeps, we may have spread ourselves too thin, testing around a dozen offers in 3-4 different countries. Some iPhone, some Samsung. When we caught a glimpse of a winner, we paused everything apart from that one, and focussed on that, but wasn't able to get it above -80% ROI.

All our testing was on Zeropark, so we may have made a mistake in not testing out other traffic sources also. The feedback we've had from AM's on our landers and creatives have been very solid, and we've had a lot of variety too. We're not unfamiliar to running profitable campaigns on FB and Adwords so it is frustrating not to have got PUSH working just yet.

We have decided to focus on offers we can push on FB for now. FB is our bread and butter, we spend $25k+ a day there across ourselves and client accounts, so think it's best for us to focus there for now, continue building relationships with AM's, and come back to PUSH when we have stronger assets/offers in different verticals.

Sorry to let you all down, we will be back better than ever with FB. We will post an update here after our first week, or perhaps start a new follow along in the FB section. We think we can bring some value to other members when it comes to FB.

We are considering running some tests on Propellor with CC sweeps, seeing as we have the assets and translated assets to do so. Ultimately it's something we can come back to when we want to!

Thanks for all your help and support!

Popey

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Hello popey91,

What a nice thread to follow!

Love to work with you on finding you winners in CC sweeps! PUSH is a huge source for us there. Sick volume and good EPCs coming from these geos: FR IT BE CH DE UK AU CA. I think it would be great to start in FR and IT since you mentioned you have good creatives there. Would love to brainstorm and exchange some ideas on best performing landers, etc. Wouldn't hurt to test another network

If you're interested, feel free to reach out to me on Skype is ci.villezas and email: ivy@wewemedia.com.

Cheers and goodluck,

Ivy

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