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Need help scaling.. (24)

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Greetings,

I have been setting up and running various campaigns these last few months and learning a ton. Now I am exploring adult dating offers and this particular offer has been gaining some traction. It is very exciting to see actual conversions (even if it isn't a lot) but I am kind of lost on how I should scale and milk this as much as possible.

Here is a snip of the last few days. I have created 1 campaign in Voluum for each banner (3). I am having difficulty inputting the cost in Voluum as there are three campaigns but TrafficJunky has only one cost since it is opened as one campaign in TJ. Did I set that up correctly? The total cost I spent so far in TJ is around $18. There are 2 landers that I am running. Each of those landers are getting similar conversions. Does the CTR seem too high as well?



So far:

-I have cloned these campaigns with larger daily budget (double the initial campaign) in TJ, hoping to increase the impressions. Should I be increasing the bids as well?
-Started the same campaigns but with Juicy Ads
-Found a similar offer with another GEO that is close by to this one, and started running the same campaigns in TJ and Juicy Ads


Is there a way to be narrow down the zone or website where these conversions are coming from. The reports in Voluum doesn't seem to be telling me that.

I appreciate any help I can get. Thanks!!

-DK

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Hello,

you don't need to create a campaign for every banner, you need to use the tracking tokens supported by Traffic Junky.

Here they are for you :

1 {AdID} : Ad creative ID
2 {BanID} : Banner creative ID
3 {BanName} : Banner creative name
4 {BidValue} : Bid value
5 {CampaignID} :Campaign ID
6 {Location} : Location of the visitor
7 {SiteName} : Name of the site that triggered the ad
8 {SpotName} : Location of the ad spot

I copied them from here : http://trackingtokens.com/trafficjunky-tokens/

Once you start using them, you will be able to dig into stats deeper and analyze everything by banner, site or spot.

As for the cost, there is no 100% accurate way to report costs, you need to calculate what the average CPC is for any particular campaign and set that as the CPC value in Voluum.

You said you also have a similar offer in another GEO, when targeting different GEOs, always start a new campaign for that, that's one of the major targeting options, that always means the need to start a new campaign.

Let me know if you need more help.

Matej.

Now to the scaling part : you can bid higher, raise daily budget, raise cap, use more spots and also to scale to other networks.

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Hi Matuloo,

I am quite confused on how to use these Tokens.

So I setup a campaign in Voluum, copy that link to Banner #1 in TJ, add a few of those Tokens (is there a max number of tokens i can use or can i use all 8?), then use the same Voluum link for Banner #2?

Thanks!

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You need to configure TJ properly as a traffic source, so go to voluum, open traffic sources, select traffic junky and click edit.

You don't need to use all the tokens, I'm personally using just 3. Here is a screenshot from my voluum :



If you wish, you can add more by following the same system. Make sure to have "Track" enabled for all tokens that you want voluum to record for you.

Save it and go back to your campaigns - now every campaign link using this traffic source, will have the tokens in the url. You will have to change the old links in the TJ campaigns with the new ones.

You will use the same campaign link for all banners within the same campaign on TJ and voluum will let you sort the data based on the banner ID and the other tokens - just chose from the "Variables" menu at the right.

Is it more clear now?

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Thanks Matuloo!! Your instructions helped a ton!! Now I am just waiting for TJ to approve the changes and I also created new campaigns with higher bids.

With the amount of Clicks I am receiving, does that mean I am getting a good amount of interests but not converting due to my LPs? or could this just be bots?

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TJ doesn't really have problems with bot traffic, they are pretty clean network. The problem seems to be with your LPs, the CTR is very high for dating... is there some misleading element on it? That could explain the large fall off after the LP click. But the numbers don't look bad at all, your breakeven or seeing small profit, right?

Let's wait for the approval and get some more traffic, then posts the results and we can look at it together in more detail, ok?

Matej.

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Hi Matej,

I'm actually no where close to making profit now. Today my cost was around $62 but my conversions was around $16 to $20. I put that range because I am not sure why Voluum isn't calculating the full offer revenue of $1.28. Some of the conversions is listing much less than the $1.28. If I do the math with the 16 conversions I got today times $1.28, that should be $20.48. Why does that happen?

I also do notice the number of conversions Voluum is listing also doesn't match up with what the Affiliate Network as well. The Affiliate Network shows I only received 13 conversions today. Could it be the timing of the day? I will need to send a screenshot to account manager.

Here is a screenshot of today's results:



I have created 4 campaigns for the same GEO (all of them using the same 3 banners):

-v1 is with the original 2 LPs i started off with
-v2 is running during a set time range
-v3 using 3 new LPs
-v4 with no LPs at all.

Should my next step be looking at the placement of banners? or bid more or less? Thanks again for your help!

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Hello again,

The opening post mentioned $18 ad spend and about $20 in revenue based on the screenshot, so I assumed it's the real numbers, or?

How did you setup the offer payout? Did you use the manual payout option or automatic?

Time zone settings definitely has an impact on this, you need to check the same timezones both on voluum and the affiliate network.

First of all, are you aware that you can rotate several LPs withing one campaign on voluum? Your setup is kinda confusing, I'd suggest to change it. You can even send certain % of traffic directly to the offer - by setting 2 paths in voluum, one direct linked and 1 with LPs.

So all your current campaigns could be in one, except for the one with time range restraint. This way, you will see how each of the LPs compares to the others on pretty much the same type of traffic ... which is how proper split tests should be done. You need to reach as even distribution as possible, which is hard to achieve when it's distributed over several campaigns.

As for the next steps ... you need to find out 3 things basically - what's the best offer, LP and banner. Doesn't have to be just one, I pretty much always run with more than 1 banner/lp/offer. Then you can focus on finding the best bid, placements and look for other traffic sources. Having a solid offer is the most important part, so start with that. The rest doesn't have specific order.

Let me know how it went.

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Those were real numbers when I started out with one campaign. But now that i added v1,v2, etc, it has been eating away at the traffic budget.

I have it set up as automatic. Should it be manual? When I first started with Pops under Vortex's guides, it was to leave it as automatic, so I never changed even though I don't run Pops anymore.


Thanks for this tip! i knew i can rotate several LPs but I didn't know that I can add one direct link as well. I will start another campaign in Voluum and add them all together. Should I be sending certain % of traffic to the offer? or leave it as is?

Right now, I have only been running 1 offer for this GEO, can I add a few more offers to the 1 campaign that I am going to set up? So that 1 campaign in voluum will have Path 1 with all the LPs to multiple Offers and Path 2 direct to multiple offers? I want to make sure I am setting this up correctly before I spend away my traffic budget.

Thanks!

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No problem with that, if it's configured correctly. I was asking about it to identify the problem with various payout levels per conversion ... your traffic is probably being redirected to various offers, that have different payouts. That's why you are not seeing $1.28 for each lead. Or are you rotating offers? Maybe it's a smartlink? One way or another, one of the things I mentioned is responsible for the "floating" payout level per conversion.

Depends on what you wanna test. Let's say you want to split test 4 LPs and also direct link, so that's 5 variations. In this case, you would set the PATH weights to 80 vs 20 and put the 4 LPs (with same weights) in the one with 80. This way, you will assure pretty much even rotation for all the LPs and also the direct link.

You can do that, but keep in mind you need to send more traffic to such funnel, since there is more variations to test. The more variations there are, the harder it is to properly split test each of them.

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Here are the results for the new campaign I created a few days ago by adding a few more Offers to the same GEO:



This campaign is using 3 banners and rotating between 5 LPs and direct. I ended up turning off the 3 Click Dealer offers because I didn't receive any conversions but I notice today on the CD's dashboard, that there were actually 10 conversions for the first CD offer on that screenshot.

I was thinking of turning that offer back on but I would want to find out why it isn't showing up on Voluum first. Is there something on CD's end that is causing it not to show up?

So far, this new campaign has spent about $125 on traffic cost (I set a daily budget of $100). Would this be enough data to be able to determine if these offers are worth moving forward or should I continue to let it run? What is the best method to properly split test this?

Thanks again for all the help!

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You need to stop for a while and re-organize a bit.

1. Start tracking costs! Set a CPC price based on past performance ... it's not gonna be 100% accurate, but it will help to identify the possible problems easier.
2. Fix the tracking ... did you setup a postback at CD too? They are using the same back-end (cake) as advivi, so the postback to use should be the same actually.
3. In dating, it's almost never possible to turn profit without a great LP, so I would probably ditch the directlinked option for now and just focus on LPs.

$125 should be enough to see if an offer has promise or not, but with the missing conversion data, it will be harder to judge. One way or another, the offers are converting, so they are not dead for sure.

TIP: many offers have multiple offer urls, which is like different landers and quite often, some of them perform better than others.

On a side note : how many offers is this actually that you are testing, is there some smartlink involved at all (asking because of the various payout levels you saw)?

Since you already spent significant time on finding a performing offer, focus on that some more ... you need to find 2-3 offers (or offer urls) that seem to work the best, then you can move on to test banners and/or LPs.

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1. I have just added the CPC price in Voluum (edit campaign) to what TJ shows as eCPC on the campaign dashboard
2. I spoke to CD and they were able to setup the postback, so it should work now.
3. Direct links are now ditched.


I was testing 5 offers, 2 from Advidi and 3 from CD. There was one offer that had the same name and details from Advidi and CD but CD was paying 40 cents more. Should I ditch the one from Advidi and stick with CD since it's the same offer but higher payout?

I didn't think there were any smartlinks involved but the response I got from Advidi was "there are traffic came from another GEO and it got redirected to the other offers and got converted." Is that normal?

So right now I have paused the campaign so that I can re-organize. I am kind of confused on your last advice. Does that mean I should test the other creative links with the banners/LPs I currently have? For example, if the five offers I have been running each have 3 different creative links, do i set up a new campaign that is rotating 15 creative link offers with 5 different LPs? or should I set up a campaign for each offer so that there are 3 different links with 5 LPs running? Also, how much do you think should I be spending on traffic for this part?

I really appreciate your patience in helping me out!!

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A more accurate way is to take the $ spent on the source and divide it by the visits recorded by Voluum ... sometimes the difference can be significant.

Never ditch offers based on payout levels, very often a lower payout offer can make you more. Even the same offers can perform way different on separate networks. Always relay on your own data.

Yup, advidi redirect part of the traffic, sometimes even when it's matching the GEO according to voluum or other tracker. Sometimes they are able to deactivate this redirection, sometimes not. Depends on the advertiser. It's the same with all affiliate networks to some extent.

You need to treat each offer url as a different offer pretty much. But you don't have to test all of them right of the bat. Pick 1 or 2 and only when an offer shows decent conversions, then test the other creative links. In many cases, the AM will be able to tell you what creative seems to be working the best for a particular offer.

If I was to test 5 offers, I'd take 2 links per offer, so 10 total. To save some $, you can start with just 1 link per and then test several links for the offers that perform the best.

Do not try to find a winner straight away in your first test, give it some time and work your way to the best one (s). Here is a strategy that worked well for me in dating : http://stmforum.com/forum/showthread...-of-my-methods

As for how much to spend : 5x the offer payout should be enough to spot the worst performers. To find the clear winners, you will have to spend more.

You're welcome

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Greetings,

I wanted to follow up since it has been a week since this has been running. I feel like I am more lost than ever right now. I am really unsure what I should do or if I need to stop this right now. I feel like I am just burning money away because everyday I am losing money and it seems like it isn't getting any better. When is it time to move on to the next one? Part of me wants to but the other part of me doesn't want to miss out if it starts making money since I been working so much on this.

Here is a snip of the last 7 days:



On 1/24 I was running 8 offer links (some were the same offer but with different creative pages), 5 LPs, 3 Banners and all site spots. Daily budget at $60 (changed to $100 a few days later)

On 1/29, I have cut it down to 5 offer links, 1 LP, 2 Banners and only 3 site spots. At the end of the day, I created another Campaign (v2) with everything the same but 3x higher bids. (Daily budget changed to $50 for each campaign)

Today (1/30), my conversions and ROI decreased for v1.

So many questions right now:
Did I mess up by starting v2?
Did I cut the wrong LP, offer links, or site spots?
Should I find other LPs? I notice I am still getting some clicks so people are interested right?
Should I focus on just one offer?
I feel like my banners are the only thing doing well for me since it is getting me the clicks, I am just not executing by getting them to convert.

Here is a snip of today's results for v1 by offers:


Here is a snip of today's results for v2 (3x bid of v1) by offers:


I definitely appreciate any advice or next steps I should take!!

-DK

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Help! anybody?

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You need to slow down and test 1 THING AT A TIME

1. you started with 8 offers, 5 LPs and 3 banners
2. next day, after spending $60 (if I read it right), you've cut almost all LPs, almost half of the offers and also spots ... there is no way in hell that you reached some level of statistical significance here.
3. then you created another campaign and raised the bid X3


All done wrong, sorry.

You need to form some strategy and stick to it.

The KEY is to take one thing at a time and sort that out first.

I would start with the offer, I think you had enough conversions already to be able to spot the best performing ones. Take 3 offer urls that showed the best performance.

Next can be the LP or the banners... I'd start with LPs, cause those usually last longer. It's also possible, that you have enough data to spot the best ones. Pick 2, do not stick to 1!

Then the banners... you will have to test several DOZENS, maybe a hundred or two. Banners burn out fast, prepare for that.

Only then is it time to cut spots, because you are on TJ, where pretty much all spots are legit.

DO NOT RUSH THE PROCESS ... adult is volatile, what bombs on one day, can deliver solid results on the next one. It's also common to get a random conversion out of the blue ... do not base your decisions on 1 or 2 leads, you need to give it time.

Good luck!

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I was gonna reply but matuloo got to it with good info. Best of luck!



Andrew

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Thanks Matuloo! I will narrow down the LPs and Offers. For Banners, how can you tell what is a successful banner if I am testing so many? by which one brings in the most conversions? the most clicks? and do I run them for a week before narrowing down the banners?

Also, what is a good daily budget to run this? 5x the offers? so if i have 3 offers that are $1 payout, it would be 3 x $1 x 5 = $15 a day?

Thanks!

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When testing banner, I try to focus on what doesn't work, so basically cutting those that fall behind. For example, if I run 10 banners and 8 of them already made 2-3 conversions but 2 didn't convert at all, I cut those that failed to deliver a conversion. I'm not following any exact numbers like 5x spend etc anymore, I learned to spot the losers so to speak. The losers simply start to fall behind, they are easy to spot. Clicks are not the main criteria for cutting banners, conversions are. CTR can tell you a lot about your creatives, but the final word goes to the conversions, that's the most important part.

A good daily budget to me is one that allows you to run 24 hours a day. The conversions are not consistent across the day or days of the week, to really see the full performance, you need to run non stop. Adjust your targeting in order to achieve this, limit the traffic by targeting options so you can afford to run non-stop.

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Hi,

So i been running this for another week or so now and I still feel like I haven't accomplished anything. I would keep banners that would get 2-3 conversions, but that's all they would get each day or some days less, than back to 2-3 the following day. I feel like the longer I test those particular banners, the sooner it will get burnt quick and then I'm back to square one testing new banners.

I know the goal is to make some profit, which requires more conversions to cover at least the traffic cost, but are dating banners capable of getting 50-100+ conversions a day? Especially since payouts for these offers seem so low ($1-$2).

Thanks

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Banners in adult can burn out pretty quickly, but it's not like they only last a day or two ... some die quickly, some can run for multiple weeks. Running several at once will also slow the process down.

I have a banner burnout article linked in my signature, read it please.

Low payout don't have to be a problem, in case of a large GEO. My biggest campaigns were in India with payouts below $1 and I was able to scale them to multiple $x.xxx in revenue per day ... If you are running low payout offers in small GEOs, then obviously, your results are limited. But still, 50-100 conversions per day are possible in whatever GEO. Not in one campaign, with 1 banner on 1 placement of course, but who tells you to limit yourself to that? You can have multiple campaigns with dozens of banners across dozens of placements on a single source ... and then again, there are multiple sources you can work with.

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So I have been running various banners/LPS for this particular Campaign. I thought I was making so progress, maybe not as I am not sure anymore. But all of a sudden todayI am not getting any conversions. I checked my LPs and they are working. Could it be the offer? is it dead or the link doesn't work? or nobody is interested in this dating offer? I am still getting visits and clicks.

Based on the stats, is this a campaign that I should kill and move on?

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Hello,

let me answer your questions ...

Yes it could be the offer. Did you try to load the offer in your browser? Since none of us knows what you are promoting, it's your job to make sure all parts of the funnel, including the offer, are fully functional. Opening your campaign url in your browser, and following the sequence all the way to the offer, is the first thing you HAVE to do in case of any problems.

Not a chance.

Could be banner burnout ... please read this : http://stmforum.com/forum/showthread...-down-and-down

The performance doesn't look any special, BUT you are getting multiple conversions per day, so the offer is alive ... and on some days, it was pretty close to profit.

This looks like a standard campaign to me, one that can be improved a lot with better banners or LPs. The problem can also be with bidding, maybe a competitor is fighting for the same traffic and you need to bid higher.

If you should sum up what you have done so far ... how many banners and LPs and offers have you tested, and on how many placements?

It's easy to come to a phase when you'd think that you had tried it all by now... but I can guarantee it's not the case. Try to read this older post from Finch, almost all of it still holds true till today :

https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...able-campaigns

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