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Help! Advertiser Said our Retention Rate is 0% and Will Not Pay (14)

01-02-2018 07:27 AM #1 duiyao (Member)
Help! Advertiser Said our Retention Rate is 0% and Will Not Pay

We ran a CPI gaming offer HIT in Korea from Avazu using ZeroPark PPV/RON/Standard traffic and was able to get very profitable with it.

Today, our manager told us that the advertiser will not pay because the retention rate is 0%.

I honestly don't understand this, we were direct linking the offer to ZeroPark traffic, how is it possible we get 0 people playing the game?

0% would mean pure fraud or bot leads. I wouldn't believe ZeroPark would build some advanced bots to generate fake leads for their clients, would they?

What is the logical explanation here? Please help!

01-02-2018 07:36 AM #2 stickupkid (Senior Moderator)

How long did you run the campaign? Did you check quality in meantime with Avazu and/or did they tell you it's oke to run?
People probably played the campaign, BUT didn't eventually continue playing and/or buying credits (or whatever).

Not sure how your flow looks, but could be you focus too much on the free gaming part for example. A lot of FB traffic contains people who are bored and just play the game for some minutes and then continue to other stuff.

01-02-2018 07:45 AM #3 duiyao (Member)

Thanks for the quick response. The thing is, we sent traffic directly to the offer without any lander or banner. We didn't run it for long because it got paused fairly quickly, we were able to generate 63 conversions. But I just can't accept the number 0%.

01-02-2018 07:49 AM #4 stickupkid (Senior Moderator)

If the campaign program has some description saying publishers need to reach a certain retention rate and/or KPI, Avazu has all the right to not pay you for the traffic you send.
If there is no clear goal for KPI or retention rate communicated to publishers it's very hard for Avazu and advertiser to not pay you.

Direct linking or not, could make a difference but isn't really relevant in this case I think.

01-02-2018 07:53 AM #5 duiyao (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by stickupkid View Post
If the campaign program has some description saying publishers need to reach a certain retention rate and/or KPI, Avazu has all the right to not pay you for the traffic you send.
If there is no clear goal for KPI or retention rate communicated to publishers it's very hard for Avazu and advertiser to not pay you.

Direct linking or not, could make a difference but isn't really relevant in this case I think.
Hi, I'm not questioning the policy of not getting paid, and yes, 0% is lower than the KPI requirement of >15%. But this is not what I'm seeking help for, what I need is to figure out the reason for zero retention. 0 retention is pretty extreme based on my experience in years of online marketing. Or maybe 0% RR is actually normal?

01-02-2018 08:00 AM #6 stickupkid (Senior Moderator)

Quote Originally Posted by duiyao View Post
Hi, I'm not questioning the policy of not getting paid, and yes, 0% is lower than the KPI requirement of >15%. But this is not what I'm seeking help for, what I need is to figure out the reason for zero retention. 0 retention is pretty extreme based on my experience in years of online marketing. Or maybe 0% RR is actually normal?
- could be Facebook traffic - lot's of bored people just playing for fun
- wrong targeting perhaps?
- the ads you are using promise certain things which the campaign can't fulfill?
- Avazu sending bad traffic to advertiser - advertiser not gonna pay for conversions - no publisher gets paid, unless proven his traffic is hitting the KPI

You would say out of 63 conversions some people would pay for credits or continue, but this also depends on several other things besides your traffic.

01-02-2018 08:06 AM #7 duiyao (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by stickupkid View Post
- could be Facebook traffic - lot's of bored people just playing for fun
- wrong targeting perhaps?
- the ads you are using promise certain things which the campaign can't fulfill?
- Avazu sending bad traffic to advertiser - advertiser not gonna pay for conversions - no publisher gets paid, unless proven his traffic is hitting the KPI

You would say out of 63 conversions some people would pay for credits or continue, but this also depends on several other things besides your traffic.
Please read the material thoroughly before making comment:

- The traffic is ZeroPark PPV/RON/Standard
- What do you mean wrong targeting? There are many conversions
- I AM NOT USING ANY ADS, this must be the third time I have to explain this to you???!!! WTF
- I don't understand what do you mean Avazu sending bad traffic

Please don't make comments just to get points to level up, read the information before doing so, be more attentive if you actually want to help.

Thanks

01-02-2018 08:18 AM #8 stickupkid (Senior Moderator)

Quote Originally Posted by duiyao View Post
Please read the material thoroughly before making comment:

- The traffic is ZeroPark PPV/RON/Standard
- What do you mean wrong targeting? There are many conversions
- I AM NOT USING ANY ADS, this must be the third time I have to explain this to you???!!! WTF
- I don't understand what do you mean Avazu sending bad traffic

Please don't make comments just to get points to level up, read the information before doing so, be more attentive if you actually want to help.

Thanks
- I need a coffee, apologies,
- could be a lot of young people sign up and play, but don't have money or resources
- I need another coffee, apologies
- In general it could be Avazu sending big volumes to this offer, and most of them don't reach the KPI, so advertiser will not pay Avazu for all the conversions, including yours

I need the points to level up, sorry. It's just my main goal for 2018. Good luck and make sure you communicate with Avazu a lot on this.

01-02-2018 08:21 AM #9 duiyao (Member)

Apologies accepted and thanks given.

I just got the report from my manager for another offer from the same advertiser, same GEO, same traffic source, duplicated campaigns actually, and had good performance.

I'm working with our manager to sort this out thoroughly, while open to any input we can get here.

01-02-2018 08:24 AM #10 momopotato (Member)

Since you are using Zeropark PPV traffic, there is no targeting involved as you are bidding blind. Which is a very bad idea for niche gaming offers. You have to find targets with the right demographics to actually hit advertisers' KPI. 63 conversions with 0% RR is totally normal considering the fact that you are direct linking from a RON source.

0% RR does not mean fraud or bot. Retention rate can be based on different requirements. It could be 1 day retention rate or others. Your converted users might have played and tested the game out for 30minutes/2 hours/ 4 hours and gave up on the game.

It is totally logical if you are promoting a MMORPG game that is geared for 20-40 males but you run RON and your page reaches people from 14-70 ages female and male. Since it is direct linking a CPI, all of them are perfectly capable of hitting that install button (don't ask me why they do, people just do). But after installing they just try it out for 10minutes and give up.

01-02-2018 08:26 AM #11 duiyao (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by momopotato View Post
Since you are using Zeropark PPV traffic, there is no targeting involved as you are bidding blind. Which is a very bad idea for niche gaming offers. You have to find targets with the right demographics to actually hit advertisers' KPI. 63 conversions with 0% RR is totally normal considering the fact that you are direct linking from a RON source.

0% RR does not mean fraud or bot. Retention rate can be based on different requirements. It could be 1 day retention rate or others. Your converted users might have played and tested the game out for 30minutes/2 hours/ 4 hours and gave up on the game.



It is totally logical if you are promoting a MMORPG game that is geared for 20-40 males but you run RON and your page reaches people from 14-70 ages female and male. Since it is direct linking a CPI, all of them are perfectly capable of hitting that install button (don't ask me why they do, people just do). But after installing they just try it out for 10minutes and give up.
Hmm, now this sounds about right.

01-02-2018 11:19 AM #12 evy123 (AMC Alumnus)

Quote Originally Posted by duiyao View Post
We ran a CPI gaming offer HIT in Korea from Avazu using ZeroPark PPV/RON/Standard traffic and was able to get very profitable with it.

Today, our manager told us that the advertiser will not pay because the retention rate is 0%.

I honestly don't understand this, we were direct linking the offer to ZeroPark traffic, how is it possible we get 0 people playing the game?

0% would mean pure fraud or bot leads. I wouldn't believe ZeroPark would build some advanced bots to generate fake leads for their clients, would they?

What is the logical explanation here? Please help!
Hey man

I actually saw your other post about the insane ROI you got and thought about commenting on quality coming from ZP on CPI offers but did want to jinx it...

Anyways, I saw this kind of case happen a lot on PPV traffic in general and what i suspect is that some targets/publishers/zones inside the traffic sources are sending BOT installs. Thus the non existent RR. Even incetivized installs should generate more than 0% RR.

As for claims coming from Avazu, you should demand reports backing their claims (other than the generic excel file). You can also back yourself up with reports from ZP as there is not a lot to lose. I'm afraid Avazu are very advertiser oriented, and CPI advertisers in general are very quick to not pay and feel very comfortable saying so.

Please demand that Avazu does what they are supposed to and provide you with reports. If the reports back this up, there is not a lot you can do im afraid.

This sucks, but look at the bright side - at least the ROI was huge so you didn't lose too much.

Good luck!

01-02-2018 03:40 PM #13 duiyao (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by evy123 View Post
Hey man

I actually saw your other post about the insane ROI you got and thought about commenting on quality coming from ZP on CPI offers but did want to jinx it...

Anyways, I saw this kind of case happen a lot on PPV traffic in general and what i suspect is that some targets/publishers/zones inside the traffic sources are sending BOT installs. Thus the non existent RR. Even incetivized installs should generate more than 0% RR.

As for claims coming from Avazu, you should demand reports backing their claims (other than the generic excel file). You can also back yourself up with reports from ZP as there is not a lot to lose. I'm afraid Avazu are very advertiser oriented, and CPI advertisers in general are very quick to not pay and feel very comfortable saying so.

Please demand that Avazu does what they are supposed to and provide you with reports. If the reports back this up, there is not a lot you can do im afraid.

This sucks, but look at the bright side - at least the ROI was huge so you didn't lose too much.

Good luck!
That is a good idea, I'll get reports from both of them!

01-02-2018 05:28 PM #14 duiyao (Member)

I'm getting amazing support from my mastermind bros, who are much much more experienced and better affiliates than me, that this situation is normal as you can't stop bored people from installing the game and played for a few minutes then never play again, that is a natural problem using untarget traffic. Lesson learned, and the next goal of mine is to tame the FB beast!

(Another offer from the same ADV got good lead quality though, so it is highly unpredictable using Pop traffic for gaming CPI)

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