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Pop Journey from 0 to xx a day . (40)

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Hello All , This is Capri , I was working as a controller in NY , but I have recently quit my Job and giving the AM a try .


I will be documenting my journey to xx profit a day .

what I need to learn ,
1- ability to choose offers and testing them, cut offer that isnt working.
2-cut lander that arent profitable or performing well .
3-Lunch few campaigns daily (3-5) in different Geo's

My Plans
1- I will be picking offers and landers from adplexity ,
2- I will pick up 5 landers for each campaigns and choose few offers from 3+ affiliate network .

1st question .

what is the bidding strategy that I should be using ?
E.g Popads.
I was running an offer in Italy and , I was bidding 5 per 1k pop . and I was # 19 in query .
My question , Do I really need to bed very high to be number 1-5 in the query ?

_ I will lunching campaigns daily will post update once I have new info.

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Good luck, the plan looks simple and solid

Regarding bidding my suggestion is to start with avg CPM (ask you account manager what the average bid is for your geo) so you will get the right mix of low and medium-high quality of traffic.
This way you can clean your campaigns from bots/non performing publishers, without paying high CPCs.

Also during this period you will be deciding if the offers your are testing have potential to be scaled later. Only once you have a winning combination of LP + Offer go for top position bids

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First Update , I picked up ES, and EG Geo.
I am running ES campaign on propeller ad . Had one issue with the bid strategy ,
the max bid is $5 the min bid is $0.50 , I created a campaign with 2.25 bid .Is that correct ??
Not sure how to choose the bid , I chatted with Propeller cs they advised that the recommendation bid is $1.75

ES campaign is currently running 8 lander and 6 offer from 2 different network .I test the speed they all were below 1 second.

Will post update daily .
Capri .

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@capri33

Regarding bidding on propeller I would suggest taking a look on this archived guide:
https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...mpaign-Options

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First update .


I stopped 3 out of 8 lander because the ctr was very low .


I have spent 2x for each offer .




I am not sure what should I do here ,should I run these for one more day , should I drop and run anther campaign .

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What type of landers are you using in this campaign? The CTR looks a bit high for ES. Is it that your landers have auto-redirect scripts that will send the visitor to the offer page after a few seconds?

Also, what’s your strategy on cutting placements, since you are using landers in this camp.

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I used Lander from Adplexity. I just picked few landers and run them , then cut 2 that has very low ctr . Yes there is back button redirect script , and it will send the visitor to the same link .
I didnt cut any placement yet . I was going to cut placement when I see a winner lander and offer .
I want to test 2 more networks but I didnt find any network that has sweeps for Spain yet .

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Considering that you haven’t cut any placement so far and judging landers CTR, I’m afraid there is something wrong with the landers that are generating such ctr.
Normally it should be like less than 5% or lower in the first test.

Both networks that you are using have solid offers, so I’d focus on placements at the moment.

Drop me a PM with one of your high ctr landers link so that I can take a look on it. Maybe we can avoid any of the scripts that are screwing your stats and optimization.

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Very nice start!

The focus right now should be to test and cut landers down to a winning lander. After that, you can take that lander and test more offers.

To cut landers, here's the recommended approach:

https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...Banners-Part-1

In order to cut landers, you need conversions. And it would be much more accurate to use conversions that come from a single offer, when cutting landers.

What I would suggest, is to run more traffic - you really haven't run a lot of traffic to each offer yet so far. Here is an approach you can use:

-Run until any offer reaches 2 conversions, then pause the rest and just run that one offer - and use conversion from that one offer to cut landers.

-In that process, if any offer doesn't convert at least once per 10x payout, remove it from rotation.

-If none of the offers reaches 2 conversions before it's cut, either test another batch of offers or another geo altogether. But first, make sure your campaign and tracking was set up correctly!

-When you've cut down to the last lander, see if that offer+lander combination has a chance of making the campaign profitable. If there's a good chance, then just optimize the campaign to green. If not, then test more offers. Add back offers that were put on pause before (excluding those that didn't convert at least once per 10x payout).

Alternatively, just test new offers.

Or, test both new offers and old offers that were put on pause prematurely before.


*****

I'm about to write a lesson on how to do this, in the newbie tutorial. In the meantime, please feel free to ask further questions here, and continue to show stats - and we'll help you optimize.



Amy

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Thanks for helping identify the lander issue .
I am going to create a separate campaign for the auto-redirect and the back button as well . that compaign will go to different offers plus a monetizer link .

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I would test the Spain camp again, once the landers are free of auto-redirects.

If you are using Monetizer (aka Afflow), you can send all back button traffic to a monetizer camp link. Just copy/paste the back button redirect script from the promotion methods of your monetizer camp.


Check out this guide on how to properly setup tracking on a Monetizer campaign
https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...utorial-Part-2

When you have everything setup, you'll have another offer in your funnel to split test against your current offers. So while you're monetizing your remnant traffic, you can uncover converting placements where visitors didn't want to convert to your offer.

Lastly a suggestion about your optimization process:
Start bidding slightly above the recommended minimum bid. With traffic flowing in, you'd be able to identify which placements are sending you traffic at the current bid and get rid of all of those who have no landing page clicks. Let's say a placement has sent you 400 visits to your landing page, but none of the visits clicked on your lander - exclude this publisher.
Repeat this process on other placements that have no CTR until your traffic flow lowers down and you have to rise the bid.

I think it will cost you less and be much easier for you this way

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Thanks Amy ,very helpful

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Thanks platinum , I have dont that , sorry for lack of update as i was traveling .
I run traffic for couples of day for the same offers/landers , I could not get any offer to convert .
I will try anther traffic source and I will add 2 more offers from a different affiliate-network .I will also add 2 more landers.
I am also going to lunch 2-3 campaigns a day.

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Hi Capri33,

When you rip the landers - are you familiar with clicksteal code?

This is something people put into their landers, expecting that people will rip them and it funnels your clicks back to them.

I'm no expert on this, but this was something Miro from BannersLanders told me about when I had him clean up my ripped landers for me. Just keep an eye out when ripping landers.

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Yup, there is a lot of "unwanted" code to be found in LPs, people do this to protect their creatives and a it's a risk that comes with ripping landers. It always pays to check the code, clean it and make tweaks to the LP itself.

capri33 - if you're unable to get anything to convert, the problem might be with the traffic you are buying, read this for some ideas : https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...-read-this-now

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@Rurik

I normally check each JS code , I have a bit knowledge about coding , and also copy and past any code I dont know into google search , then you will have some knowledge about the code .
that is also a good idea to hire someone to work on your landers as they are time consuming .

matuloo-
Thanks for your input - I buy 3g traffic , also I am going to ask an affiliate friend for his Spain black listed zoneid.

I am currently running an Iphone offer but there is samsung offers , should I tweak the landers for samsung as well ?
then I create 2 campaigns one Samsung and one Iphone .
I am also putting landers together for AU sweeps campaign , and I have few offers around 6-8 from 3 different networks .

Thanks for every one input .

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You will need to test a lot of offers, so yes, tweak the LPs for samsung as well, that will give you way more offers to work with. iPhone and Samsung phones are the most frequent prizes used in sweeps, so you should definitely be ready to work with both offer types.

Having a lot of offers at your disposal is a MUST in the current climate, you need to prepare to sort through possibly dozens of offers over time ... they come and go, some don't work at all, some only work during certain time frames ... lot of testing is needed to find a few solid offers.

Sweeps are not about phones either, there are shopping coupons for example, take a look at that "niche" as well.

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I'm always alarmed when new affiliates say this. Yes, you may just need to test more offers and landers, but I'm also worried about whether you've set up tracking correctly. Please go through this checklist to make sure everything is working as it should:

https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...checklist-here

Is this your first time using landers? Have you gotten ANY conversions since you've started using landers?



Amy

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I put together about 12 offers and 10 landers and I started sending traffic for couple of days .ctr are very low around 6% .I am also working on some voucher offers .


Thanks Amy , I checked all the landers and all the links I created new lander and delete the old ones . I noticed some old dates was in these landers ,
Yesterday ctr was around 12% today is less than 3% . very weird.
to answer your questions , I used lander in the past . yes I have had conversions .
Here is what I is my campaign is doing in the last couples of days .

I had one conversion so far and also one in afflow .
I will continue run traffic to the offer and use the same landers .

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Are you sending traffic to BOTH afflow AND individual offers? But you said you were using landers...?

Can you please explain what your traffic flow is like?

Regarding the change in CTR - are you seeing that for all/most landers?

I don't really have an idea on what's going on yet - hopefully will get a better idea by asking more questions.



Amy

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I am sending traffic to my landers and then goes to the offers . afflow is the back button redirect script .
I think it would be better idea to send back button to anther lander . then to afflow . because I do see almost 4k click went to afflow .

Here is the lates update
Landers update


Offers update .


I have also 3 conversion in afflow 11 cent each .

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Ah I see! Looks like your conversions are being made finally, and are being posted back. All's well there.

Did you not set up a conversion post back for afflow to Voluum?

Regarding adding a lander for afflow: That wouldn't be wise, because afflow is always switching up offers. Exception: If you have a generic type lander that will work for all offers.

That's quite a few offers you're testing! Looking forward to seeing how they do.



Amy

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No I dont know how . I am using some method platinum suggested in post #11
Sorry maybe I wasnt that clear , I was referring to send the back button to anther lander then anther offer instead of afflow .

So far ROI is around -90%

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It’s good to see that there are conversions being made on your campaign.

About the back button setup, on post #11 I added one of Amy’s guides where you can see how to setup afflow conversion tracking as well

https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...bitrage-Part-2

This is a good way to identify potential good publishers that convert if the offer you are pushing was not of any interest to the visitors coming from that publisher.

Sending your visitor to another lander and offer may be another good way to test a few other offers as well. This would work best if you setup a separate campaign for the back button where you rotate landers and offers by yourself.

When doing so, it IS VERY IMPORTANT to pass your campaign URL parametersto the other campaign in order to keep track of the publishers that convert.

Check out this thread on how to pass url parameters using java script from one campaign to another:
https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...n-Any-Campaign

If this second approach ends up taking a lot of time for you, the first one is your easiest choice.

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Hello all , here is anther update .
I have 4 conversions so far from 4 different networks . each offer converted once .


I have conversion from only 3 landers


Converting lander and converting offer
Lander #1 converted twice for 2 different offers and different affiliate network .


Lander #2 converted once


Lander # 3 converted once


My question I spend around $40 is that enough ? should I spend more .
Should I cut any landers or offers ?
Thanks

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Great Idea to identify good publisher .
I am working on understanding this right now

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Looking promising at this point!

Right now, your aim is to cut landers down to a winner. And in order to do that, you need to be using a SINGLE offer.

So what you can do, is wait until one of the offers has made 2 conversions, then pause the rest and run that one offer, and use the stats calculator to help you cut landers.

Once you're down to a winning lander, you can test more offers with it.

Here's the process:

https://stmforum.com/forum/forumdisp...to-Find-Winner

https://stmforum.com/forum/forumdisp...st-More-Offers




Amy

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Thanks Amy , I really learned a lot in just small period of time .
I had one offer that converted 2 times , for the same lander.
I went a head and paused all offers and send traffic from landers to that offer .
So far no conversion yet .

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Let's keep traffic running for a bit longer. Often, a new campaign would convert better on the 1st day, then less well over time.

If you still don't get conversions after maybe $20 more spend, then it may be best to rotate the other offers back in - the ones that have made 1 conversion. Run until one of them makes another conversion, then pause the rest again.

Main aim here is to use a decent-converting offer to cut down landers - without breaking the bank. So if the current offer isn't doing the job, consider replacing it.



Amy

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Thanks Amy .


one conversion didn't show up in Voluum , I am not sure why , as the earlier conversion showed up already.

I will run traffic to offer # 4 and test which lander will be the best .

Also I bid higher which improved the CTR .

I am also going to lunch anther campaign in Italy . will test max 6 offers and 8 landers .

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I'm not sure why either - sometimes conversions are just delayed in being posted back. If you still don't see it after 24 hours, let your AM know.

Hopefully this offer will give you enough conversions to cut down landers with! If not, switch to the other 2 offers that have generated 1 conversion each, wait to see which one converts better (or wait until one of them has made 2 conversions) and use that instead.

It may be necessary to lose money while testing landers, but still, don't let it burn a hole in your pocket. If an offer converts too badly, swap it out.



Amy

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Thanks Amy, I spoke to my AM , he said the offer was paused and all clicks went to a different offer , that is why the conversion wasn't recorded.
I am feeling to pause this camping ,and run TH ,BR,IT, $20 each and see where is that going .

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Ah! Yes - as soon as you suspect there may be something wrong with the offer or tracking, it would be good to check your aff network stats to make sure that the traffic is still going to the intended offer.

You can pause this campaign, but if I were you, I would test the other 2 offers that got 1 conversion each, to see if I could cut down landers. But it's up to you!

$20 will likely not be enough to cut landers, especially for expensive geos like BR and IT that typically have higher-payout offers. If you're wanting to conserve budget, I would suggest focusing on TH to start.

We're not direct-linking here - with direct-linking it's all about testing a shit ton of offers using a little bit of budget for each. With landers, it's about testing and cutting down to a winner, then using it to test more offers. When cutting landers down to a winner it would be necessary to spend the money to reach statistical significance - there's not really a way around that sadly, unless you're willing to accept inaccurate results. It helps to have a well-converting offer to use when cutting landers, but that's not always possible.

Let's see where we get!


Amy

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Thanks Amy , I agree with you . I ran the ES campaign today , I added 2 more landers and 1 more offer from a new network . I already see 3 conversion from 3 different offers, I am awaiting for one offer that will convert 2 times then, I will pause all offers and run that offer to cut landers .

I will lunch TH campaign today as well.


Capri

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Hello All .
After Amy advice , I went ahead and run 8 landers and all offers until one offer convert 2 times . which happened yesterday .

I stopped all offers and run that offer(twice converted) .

here the screen shot for today run.

for lander #2 and #7 I have disable the back button so when the user click to go back it wont go anywhere , he need to exit or click continue . not sure if it will make any difference .

The traffic is very slow only 8k a day . I am going to take the campaign to anther traffic source .

My question .
How much should I spend on testing each landers?
Do I need to cut down to one lander or I can run many landers to test the best offer ?

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How much different are these 8 landers from each other? Are some of them themed the same but showing a different messages to the visitor? Are they having similar ctr levels among same publishers?

Sometimes having too much landers, may take out the opportunity of a conversion on a good offer.

If your traffic is slow, make sure you’re not bidding too low. With bids below the average, you’ll keep on getting low quality traffic anyway. Even if you’re getting a small portion from good pubs, your ad may be served the last one in a stack of 3-5 pop-unders.

Having the back button disabled will not necessarily make a visitor convert, especially when he already tried to get away from your lander, so having another option in place would be a good idea (monetizer link).

What was your ad spent and roi for this campaign from day one? If it’s still in big loss maybe jumping on another geo and offer would be a good move. Don’t stick with one campaign, launch several and focus on the ones that perform.

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Thank platinum , All landers are different theme ,they dont have same ctr in the same publisher .
I agree ,I was testing Landers and found 2 winner landers so far , which i am going to use
I bid 20% above the minimum bid, I upped my bid 2x the minimum .
Ok , will add the monetizer later today .
here is today's result of testing best lander ,

clearly you can see #1 ,#2 are the winner .

I am going to pause all landers and send only to lander#1 and #2 .

I want also to scale this campaign in lets say propeller , I just send the traffic to these 2 Landers, or send traffic to all landers that converted previously, and test which landers are the best .
thanks

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Very nice! But I have a feeling you're not using the stats calculator for cutting landers. Here's the methodology:

https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...Banners-Part-1

8k/day impressions isn't very slow already. Pop traffic is pretty fragmented. Use the stats calculator to make sure you've cut landers correctly, and if so, keep running traffic to the remaining 2 landers until you have a winner. If both keep going head-to-head (i.e. perform around the same) then just keep both running.

Next step would be to test more offers to find a winner. The offer you're using right now is not the real winner, because when you were running several offers together before, they had not reached statistical significance. You had merely picked an offer that seemed to be converting OK (by reaching 2 conversions first). Once you have a best lander, you'll need to retest those offers, as well as test other offers if you like, to find a real winner.

Or: Based on your stats it looks like your current offer is profitable on the 2 remaining landers already. So if you like, you can just run this one offer for now to make some money. You can scale this camp - the current offer and the 2 remaining landers (or wait until you've cut down to a single lander) - to other pop networks as well. I talked about scaling in these lessons:

https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...998#post333998

https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...846#post334846

That can be a good tactic - sometimes it would force the visitor to actually look at your lander. I've had mixed results. It will depend on the specific lander. Would be a good thing to split-test.



So far so good!




Amy

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Thanks Amy , I really appreciate you input , Yesterday run was around -60% roi

I am not sure what to do next to make the campaign green . Should I start white listing or blacklisting .

some of the websiteid which are green .




Is that possible to turn -60% roi to be profitable .
I paused TH campaign as I will be focusing in Latam for now ,

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I would suggest to do the following:

1)Cut some of the unprofitable placements. You can use the "Non-Aggressive Placement Cutting Rules" in this post:

https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...-ACTION-Part-2

2)After you've curbed the wastage, test more offers! Doing this has a much better potential of increasing ROI in leaps and bounds, compared to trying to do the same via cutting stuff (placements, other targeting segments, whatever else).


To answer your question: YES it is possible to optimize a campaign from -60% ROI to green, but as mentioned, it should be easier to achieve this via testing offers than via cutting.

One of the major things that separates newbies from pros is the willingness (or lack thereof) to test lots of offers. Noobs like to achieve green by cutting, which is slow, expensive, and may leave little traffic in the end. Pros like to test offers to make MORE of the available traffic profitable instead - which is a more efficient and effective approach.

Every affiliate manager will tell you to run this or that offer because it's converting like hot-cakes. Don't let that keep you from testing other offers.




Amy

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