What do you do when you're still negative after optimizations? (7)
What do you do when you're still negative after optimizations?
Say I start a new campaign:
2 offers x 2 landing pages x 10 banners.
I let this run for a while until I find the best performing offer + lander.
So now I run this campaign:
Best offer x Best landing page x 10 banners
After running it for a day, Im still at say - 30% ROI
What is your move at this point?
Try new banners? New landing pages? Start over?
It seems like most guides I see on these forums is at this point I should be on the train to Profitopolis (or at least at the station waiting), but what if Im still nowhere near profitable?
This is more of a "optimization theory" question, I'd love to hear your thoughts! 
To add to a 2nd post, I guess the thing I'm wondering is how do we "stay true" to the "scientific method" of testing?
For example say we test new landers, how do we know that this new lander didn't work better with the offer we cut before?
Or say we try new banners, how do we know these banners wouldn't have worked better with the lander we cut before?
I guess in theory after we get to the point of 1 offer x 1 lander x 10 banners (as in the above example), theoretically we need to have something that's sort of close to working?
For example maybe we have 1 or 2 banners profitable/break even, and then make more variations of it?
I guess my question is theoretically wouldn't we have to be close to profit at this point to be able to build on the progress we made so far?
If we are still say -30% ROI, we probably need to just start over?
Sorry this has been bugging me lately lol
Hello again jabong
When testing again and again, without coming closer to profit, the problem is most likely with the offer. You need a better one, or at least another offer lander... In case you are certain that the offer is a good performer, the problem will be the type of banners you are using. You might also need a bigger payout, as your competitors are most likely running bumped offers already.
BUT, all the problems I mentioned, especially the payout bump, usually cause a campaigns to float around break even. So a slightly better banner/LP or a small payout bump would kick you into profit. But since you are -30%, I still vote for an offer problem, you simply need a better one ... or a better affiliate network with better setup or lower margins.
As for this :
Or say we try new banners, how do we know these banners wouldn't have worked better with the lander we cut before?
To be absolutely certain, you'd have to retest. But it's pretty much impossible to re-test everything, you'd waste all your money trying... That's why you have to optimize one step at a time, once you are certain that an offer is the best from a batch, don't return to the other offers, not until you give it a proper test by changing the other variables.
This "best" you are mentioning is obviously subjective too. I mean let's say I test 5 ads;
1. cpc 0,31
2. cpc 0,29
3. cpc 0,42
4. cpc 0,25
5. cpc 0,38
Number 4 is absolutely the best, but I know it should be possible to reach a decent 0,10 somehow. Sending more traffic to ad 4 would be a waste still, so try to optimize number 4 only, to see where you should gain more margin. Check step by step from view to click to click to prelander to campaign where you lose too much....
Thanks for the replies guys.
I ask because this is an issue I run into when I attack Tier 1 geos. I can get profitable in smaller geos, but every time I run in say a US or UK etc. I hit something like this.
I think this may be just GEO related though. It's tough because Im always wondering "Is this just the geo? Maybe there's too much competition?" or "Does my funnel just suck?". It's probably a combination of both?
I guess maybe i'll just stick to smaller geos and learn how to scale better. I think that's probably my problem.
The best tips have already been given. I want to add one more consideration: I don't know if you're running on premium sites or RON. If RON, for tier 1 geos, extensive placement cutting will be necessary even with the best banner+lander+offer+targeting.
But before doing testing on RON, you have better done sufficient testing on premium placements first, or you could lose a lot of money on RON unnecessarily. The offer itself would probably be the most important factor that will have the biggest impact on your ROI. Be sure to do some spying on the premium sites you're running on, to find out which offers are being pushed the most, and include them in your testing (and if they're available on several networks, test them all).
Amy
buddy you gotta realize that people are buying. -30% is still revenue coming in the door.
A 30% shift in ROI can happen faster then you think. Run your lander through VWO, split testing 5 headlines and 3 banner images and I'd bet you'd beat your 30% ROI right there.
Change the angle up and you could be +100% ROI.
Dig into the targeting and remove 30% of the people who aren't buying and you're breaking even. -30% ROI is a great thing my friend. You're almost there.
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