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A fatal problem of zeropark. (24)

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Hi guys. There was a question which was making me puzzled.I found a tons of targets that have a lots of volume and good performance in my test.But I can't see available and receive any traffic after a period of time.These targets were active still,so I don't know what is happened and what should I do next step.And sorry for my bad English.

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Hello, j80montes!

I had this problem sometimes.

1. Pubs might be turned off from ZeroPark
2. Zeropark loves to turn off good pubs if they see a green ROI, so I don't recommend to set their postback. Do all analyses on your side. It's not 100%, but me and my friends faced with that too

And, of course, the best way to ask them.

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Is this a conspiracy?

I would love to see proof of this.

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Haha... while I have no proof of this either, there have been a number of situations that certainly lead me to believe this does happen.

And I'm talking about very very clear situations...I turn a fresh campaign on and within 30 minutes I'm getting 200% ROI and high volume from one particular placement, then boom... hits the top of the hour and the placement disappears...

There are certainly a number of factors that could cause this but it has happened more often than just what I call a coincidence, especially when comparing this behavior to other pop sources.



Andrew

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Yes, I know Andrew, I've seen this as well and not only on ZP.

One reason why those spikes happen (not only on ZP but other sources as well) is if the site behind the placement is a for example a viral news blog.

Once there is a new post that gets shared quickly you will get many social traffic and rain of conversions.

Those fresh eyeballs convert always like crazy!

For this I have a kind of proof from another traffic source where I could find the site behind the zone and understand what's going on.

There were few of those zones and as soon as they got that injection of social traffic, conversions and traffic went always up. Then eventually slowly died out.

So there can be similar pattern also on ZP, but we don't know exactly what site is behind.

However the bottom line is, that you should always try to understand also the demographics of the placement as it can uncover many of these things and clear out conspiracies.

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we never post back data to traffic source for a reason; try it

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Okay so one of the biggest traffic networks has its own media buying team I suppose? Then how can you compete with them if they see data of everything nicely in Voluum and they can do everything with it? Cloaking will not help, avoiding Zeropark won't help either.

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The best way - to use other tracker, not Voluum. For example for ZP I use Pixelk.

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Happened to me as well several times. Only noticed it at ZeroPark.

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Hey Guys,


We are in the process of cleaning our sources, migrating all the mixed types of pop traffic to separate sources to make it easier to target. For a while this will make it seem as if some targets have disappeared when in fact they have just been migrated to a new target ID. In general we do see some big spikes from targets that then die down, but last week you may have noticed it happening more often due to the clean-up.

Please also take into consideration:

- your campaigns may be removed from a certain source on the request of the publisher (which happens very often)

- that we scan all the campaigns running through Zeropark on regular basis, and if we find that your campaigns are “more aggressive” than what they initially seemed to be, we will remove you from a certain group of more sensitive publishers

Zeropark Team.

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While this is something I can understand, I believe most of us would appreciate some kind of notification when things like these happen?

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Thank you very much.And I will use your way later.

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Hey Eryk,

Yes of course, we are always striving to improve the quality of the traffic and service for our customers.

Kind regards

Zeropark Team

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That's nice, so what if I have a blacklist with these sources? New sources will appear and this list becomes useless. Unless you provide the list of new and old IDs of all the targets...

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@zeropark do you have anything to comment on what @azureus said?

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Absolutely right. Is not a good idea to tell after the action is made. Being true sounds like a corporate excuse.

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I've asked the Zeropark team to address the migration in greater detail here.

Guys, I get the affiliate paranoia but you need to understand the fundamental difference between Zeropark and other pop networks. We are an exchange. We are the largest because we are able to plug in every source of pops and redirect traffic there is thanks to our tech. The benefit of this is our high volumes. The drawback to this is that we have no control over the publishers, they come and go in the RTB environment. Sometimes we see good sources go and it can be just as frustrating for us as it's no good for our business.

If our advertisers were not able to create profitable campaigns Zeropark would not exist. It's that simple. We do everything we can to facilitate this as it is in our interest.

Running Zeropark traffic through Voluum is free, but more importantly you're able to optimize your campaigns from within Voluum. Not to mention exact cost tracking. There's no good reason to use another tracker for ZP traffic. At some point you in the near future you will even be able to launch Zeropark campaigns from within Voluum completely consolidating the process.

Cheers,
Robert

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@azureus Regarding source / target cleaning: the original blacklist will not be useless. When cleaning targets /sources, we make sure to separate out bits of traffic in a way that has the least impact possible on already existing campaigns.

We’re fully aware that optimising targets is crucial to getting campaigns profitable. Messing up people’s campaign optimisation would be shooting ourselves in the foot.

To give you a few example of what we’re doing: if a given source is sending a mixture of adult and non-adult targets, we ask them to separate out the adult ones into a separate source. If we find that a given publisher is sending a mix of traffic under one subids, we ask them split it up in a way that will allow advertisers to optimise.

Going back to the original question: still the main reasons why targets can disappear from a campaign are: a) publisher complaints; b) the campaign was not what it seemed to be;

We categorize each campaign based on content and method of promotion. Our publishers have different levels of sensitivities of what offers they accept and what methods of promotion they accept. These range, broadly speaking, from publishers who do not care at all, to publishers who are extremely restrictive.

For example, restrictive publishers do not allow entry and exit pops on landing pages. If after accepting a campaign we find that the landing page all of the sudden contains entry pops, sensitive publishers will be excluded from that campaign and targets will disappear.

Lastly, there is an issue of fake conversions. Over the past few weeks we identified, removed, and sent refunds for multiple sources sending traffic from click farms. This traffic obviously converts very well. However, the conversions are completely worthless. But because it takes much longer to identify fake conversions (it requires lead verification from the offer owner), these targets tend to linger on our network much longer than we would have hoped for. Because affiliates often do not receive feedback on lead quality from affiliate networks, it might seem that high ROI targets are being removed. I.e. if a target looks too good to be true, it most likely is.

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Hi Rob,

You seem like a Bruce Wayne character with the money, power and lets face it, good looks. I read your story on IamAttila's blog (he is awesome!) and I found great insight into your story and a glimpse into how you think. I really appreciate you coming on this thread and answering some of the questions and concerns that your fellow iStackers have mentioned.

I think that the questions that everyone is thinking is: What do you say to those media buyers/affiliates who are concerned that you (when I say you, I mean, Voluum /ZP / Codewise) may be media buying and looking into their campaigns and then essentially taking (borrowing/stealing) them from them?

Are you running a media buying team at ZP/Codewise? If so, what are you doing to make sure that you and your team are not infringing on the campaigns of your customers? And if you are running campaigns why do you think that this is OK?

I am sure that you will give us an honest answer. I am a paying customer of your Voluum product and I think it is great!

I am just asking for some clarification. I really appreciate your time and I wish you much more success in the future.

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Thanks for the kind words, also first time being compared to Bruce Wayne - strangely flattering

To answer your question, we don't have a media buying team. Not only would it be a major conflict of interest, but it makes no business sense for us. We're a 150 man tech company playing the long game looking to build a billion dollar tech business. We are not the most expensive and elaborate campaign spying set up in the history of mankind looking to make a quick buck on affiliate campaigns.

I see that more than ever the affiliate industry is based on spying, stealing, and copying so I understand that the affiliate paranoia can lead to threads like this, but in our case it could not be further from the truth. I personally would never want to go back to the grind, been there done that - it's the last thing on my mind these days.

Best of luck!

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That still doesn't mean you can vouch for every your employee. There can always be someone with a conflict of interest.

I'm sure you and/or someone from your surroundings originally gained a lot of know-how from JB's Elephant business - which is absolutely all right and you went a long way from there. However, please don't pretend to be the next Google.

For the last one or two years, I see a lot of blackhat media buys redirected through Polish IPs and Polish servers, also a lot of automated blackhat SEO hosted on Polish servers. So either there's a lot of skilled blackhat affiliate marketers in Poland or someone from your surroundings has a lot of insider info from the industry.

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I can vouch for ZP; having working closely with them for more than a year now, and posting back conversions. Still do. And I'm pretty sure there's no media buyer division in their office last time when I flew into PL just to say hi..

If you guys are hesitant to post those conversions back, just don't do it... Pop campaigns are so easy to get ripped off through Adplexity and manual spying, so why worry about ZP when you have a horde of affiliates in STM waiting to pounce on the next big thing?

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@azureus Google who?! :-D

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and there you have it folks... Straight from the horses mouth. Thanks again, Rob. My takeaway is that I believe him 100% but you probably should be paranoid, what with all of the spying, stealing, money, flashy cars, sexy ladies, and cloaking in our industry, it seems like we are characters in a trashy spy novel.

Plus, I recently spotted one of our fearless leaders Mr. Green in the middle of Moscow, then today I see he's in Los Angeles waving the American flag!?!? with Trump in office I guess anythings is possible nowadays! hahaha!! Things are definitely interesting to say the least.

I really appreciate being able to have honest and candid conversations with the best and brightest in the game. Now if I could only get this campaign to stay profitable for more than a couple days life would be perfect!

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