[Follow Along] First Campaign - Pops/Entertainment Subs (16)
[Follow Along] First Campaign - Pops/Entertainment Subs
After 3-4 months of being here I think I finally understand enough to launch my first campaign. This isn't technically my first, but the things I've done before joining here were so embarrassingly awful that we can call this my first. I can't thank everyone enough that has answered my questions both directly and indirectly. I can't imagine how much money and time you have saved me.
This is a blueprint that I have written for what I'm going to do every step of this campaign. I can't expect everything to go as planned but will follow it to the best I can. Please review and let me know of a mistake before I make it!
Campaign Preparation
Research
Gain access to all offers of this type within GEO that are under $1 payout
I want to do some research on my competition. I need to know how people are making it work in this vertical, with this offer, and in this GEO. Go to Adplexity.
What are the angles of the most successful LP’s used in this vertical?
- Where is this offer ran? What’s the volume?
- What Network?
- What source?
- What GEO?
Note this information and use as hypothesis in future split tests.
Create/Rip 5-10 Landing pages
“if you're beating the competition you should innovate to hold your dominance. If you are being beaten, you should steal to catch up.”
- Rip most successful pages from Adplexity. Check code for anything that may slow speed or scripts sending traffic to another affiliate
- Add scripts to boost CR
- Optimize LP for speed
- Alternatively, create own designs and angles.
Launch: Funnel Optimization
Offer
- Direct link all offers available in GEO
- Allow 10-15x offer payout on each offer.
- Enter data into offer calculator cut down to the best.
https://win-vector.shinyapps.io/CampaignPlanner_v3/
Angle
Since I’m running with an offer that doesn’t really tell you what you are getting, I can promote it in any way I like. So now that I have my best offer I can split test angles against the direct link.
- Take 4-5 of the most popular angles researched with two landing page variations of each.
- Allow 10x payout on each of the 8-10 pages
- Enter data for each page into calculator. Cut any that do not meet minimum viable CR. And reach possibility of being best under 10%
- If both pages fail: Angle is bad.
- If both pages succeed: Angle is good.
- If just one page fails: Only page is bad but angle has potential.
Landing Page
With my winning angle and winning offer I will then rip and create more landing pages and run them against my current winner until the best has been found.
- Cut all other angles
- Gather 5-10 landing page variations of winning angle.
- Allow another 10x offer payout to each page.
- Enter data into calculators.
- Cut any that do not meet minimum viable CR. And reach possibility of being best under 10%
- Replace losers and tweak the winners to further increase ROI
After best page, angle, and offer has been found and funnel optimized move to phase 2: Optimizing Targeting.
Optimizing Targeting
Stagger Bids
- Use staggered bid method run campaign with medium low and high bids.
- Allow 10x payout on each.
- Run with highest ROI bid
Placement test:
- Perform bot test and cut all necessary bot placements
- Cut all placements which have reached 2x payout without conversion.
Optimize Targeting
Be sure to wait 24 hr following steps of optimization and to not cut multiple variables at once. Only cut if difference is +30% in the negative. Cut in this order.
- Devices
- OS
- Browser
- Carrier
- Sites
Affiliate network
- If the winning offer is found on more than one network split test it on both.
- If the previously losing offers from the first network are found on another, split test them again against the current best offer. As well as any others.
Traffic source
- Clone the campaign onto another traffic source keeping as much of the same targeting as possible.
- If one traffic source drastically outperforms the other I will only use the best. If they are both positive or could be turned green by cutting some variables I will use both.
- Run bot test on winning traffic source/s
Scale
- Retest previously cut offers.
- Continue to rotate and tweak new landing page variations of original
- Test completely new angles with no relevance to original
- Increase budget.
- Increase frequency.
- Test new offers when available
- Test adding previously blacklisted targeting to see if it still gives negative ROI after all other factors have been optimized
- Scale to new GEO
Using the winning affiliate network from before, choose 2-3 more GEO’s that have at least 2 offers of this type.
I will be looking for...
- Tier ⅔ GEO only
- Preferably the new GEO has the same language as original.
- If possible target whichever other GEO’s may also be targeted by my current best offer.
- Offers available are <$1 payout
Direct traffic with winning source from before. I will retest my traffic source and affiliate network in the new GEO later. Just incase the GEO makes a difference in their performance.
- If my previous best offer is available in this new GEO, l will immediately pair it with my previous best landing page.
- Use translated landing page to mass test offers.
- Repeat all other steps
================================================== ================================
Current Progress
Targeting
Network: Expertmobi
Source: Popads
GEO: Panama
Payout: .64
Device: Android
Category: General
Bid: High
Dayparting: All
Carrier: All allowed
Connection: Carrier only
Log
I have posted this slightly early in hopes someone may catch a mistake in my blueprint before I make it. I launched the campaign yesterday but failed somewhere. My AM informed me I had setup my offer link incorrectly. Also,
Completed
- Many landing pages ripped and ready for use
- 7 campaigns drafted
- Test campaign launched
Next steps
- Re-read Vortex and NGO posts below below to fix
Voluum setup. - Fix all drafted offer links following AM instructions.
- Launch all other campaigns following successful test
https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...campaign-setup
https://charlesngo.com/voluum-campaign-setup/
Questions
- How am I doing so far? Is my blueprint leading me to failure or a good fighting chance?
- I keep finding with the above targeting options that no traffic at all is available for me in popads. Should I switch sources? Geo? More broad targeting?
- Is it necessary to exclude safari if I am only targeting Android?
Here are some of my tools and references that I will using along each step. This is definitely not complete list for each segment and I will be updating this later but enough for now. Thanks a ton to all the creators. If I have misunderstood any information please let me know! And feel free to link more threads!
(Caurmen and Vortex I promise I'm not stalking you you just happen to have the answers to all my questions)
General info
Vortex:
https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...-AM-FAQ-Thread!
Preparation
Ripping Landing pages
Caurmen:
http://stackthatmoney.com/forum/show...t-Ripping-Fast
Vortex:
http://stackthatmoney.com/forum/show...Ripped-Landers
Creating Landing pages
Caurmen:
http://stackthatmoney.com/forum/show...Actually-Works
http://stackthatmoney.com/forum/show...With-Any-Phone
http://stackthatmoney.com/forum/show...hlight=minutes
Scripts to boost conversion rate
http://stackthatmoney.com/forum/show...ts-for-landers
Optimizing Speed
Caurmen:
http://stackthatmoney.com/forum/show...ght=prosper202
Funnel Optimization
Cutting Offers
Caurmen:
https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...ferent-Payouts
Vortex:
http://stmforum.com/forum/showthread...gn-Or-An-Offer
Cutting Landing pages
Caurmen:
https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...Banners-Part-1
http://stmforum.com/forum/showthread...ats-Calculator
Targeting Optimization
Bidding Strategy
Caurmen:
http://stackthatmoney.com/forum/show...-The-Landscape
Vortex:
http://stmforum.com/forum/showthread...l=1#post258609
Placement Cutting
Vortex:
https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...Rules-of-Thumb
https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...Banners-Part-2
Bot Test
Caurmen:
https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...light=bot+test
http://stackthatmoney.com/forum/show...367#post180367
http://stmforum.com/forum/showthread...ut-Bot-Traffic
General Pop Strategy
Vortex:
http://stackthatmoney.com/forum/show...Considerations
https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...of-Pop-Traffic
MrBraun:
http://stackthatmoney.com/forum/show...ic-(Algorithm)
https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...hlight=mrbraun
Tools
Offer Calculator:
https://win-vector.shinyapps.io/CampaignPlanner_v3/
Landing Page Calculator:
https://www.peakconversion.com/2012/...al-calculator/
Placement cutting tool & MaxCPM Calculator:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/yy4opi9q1..._r58AEPra?dl=0
Got your invite.
You've compiled alot of resources, shows you've been reading alot but you certainly need to get your hands dirty so to speak. You will learn so much more information and alot faster.
Initial feedback based on what I see you are doing now...
1. Don't stick to just ExpertMobi.. you need to be testing across 3-4 networks. Consider Clickdealer, Mpire, Avazu, Adsimilis, Appflood, Mundo...
2. Low payout offers in tiny geos are not going to make you too much money but could be a good learning point. Plus you are targeting Android > Carrier only, meaning you are getting just a fraction of what little traffic is available. You expectations will likely be a $10-50/day campaign with some exceptions. Consider moving on as soon as you figure things out. And I also suggest to look at geos up to 40-50mil in size, after you get familiar with things don't be afraid to go bigger.
3. I don't recommend sticking to just Panama. You sould be testing in 3-5 geos.
4. I also recommend you starting off testing with atleast 3 offers per geo for your chosen vertical.
5. Sticking to PopAd ads in the beginning is fine. If you find an offer/geo that shows potential (aka: gets conversions) but can't get it profitable on PopAds, test it on 2-3 other sources.
6. Take a step back and repeat Amy's advice, over and over and over and over... CAST A WIDE NET
What that means is.. test several geos, several offers, several landers on one source. Rinse and repeat if that doesn't work in the first round. Eventually you will also add in testing on several sources from the get go but its fine to be focused on PopAds until you get your momentum going.
Focus only on what shows promise.
I'll be watching.
Andrew
Awesome thanks for the quick reply! I am hoping to make this thread as epic as yours was going from nothing to xxx a day all in one thread.
I noticed in your follow along that you were using direct linking. Which led me to trying that right now. How did that work for you? It seems like the best way to test offers since it removes the variable of the landing page
1)I did apply to those networks some time ago and were asking me if I had current campaigns running and asking for interviews which scared me away as a total beginner. I will try applying for them again tonight now that I am more established.
2)Since traffic is so little in these small GEO's would you recommend me to broaden my targeting? I have targeted Android/Carrier only because of this thread but it is not required for my offer.
https://stmforum.com/forum/showthrea...o-promote-them
3)I have been approved for many more offers in Bulgaria, Ghana, Kenya, and Vietnam. That does make much more sense thank you. I'll cast a wide net to catch the low hanging fruit and test a few offers for each instead of all offers in one.
Current Progress:
Tweaked broken links. Will retest setup.
Now waiting for data on test campaign
Drafting 3 campaigns in 3 GEO's to be launched immediately after results from setup test come in.
I wouldn't worry about doing any direct linking right now. Unless you are doing adult 1-clicks or gaming 1-clicks, don't waste time direct linking.
You need to learn the process for testing offers/landers/geos anyhow.
As for the networks, don't be intimidated. Just be honest and transparent with them and they will take you serious. Tell them you are learning, have no clue what you are doing but you are putting in the time until you figure it out. Don't give any one or two word answers. Essentially do a basic interview of them to turn the gun around.
Ask things like...
1. What offers is your network best known to have and perform? any particular geos that you focus on? what verticals?
2. What are payment terms? How can I get on weeklies the fastest?
3. etc.
Most importantly, if you make your affiliate manager recommend you offers and never run traffic to them. After a while they may not be as responsive or prioritize you vs. their other affiliates.
In the beginning, never limit your targeting for small geos unless the offer calls for it. Panama is like less than 4 million people, its going to take a while to get your data coming in and test things. I'd highly recommend stepping up to a bigger geo so you get traffic faster, can test faster and then when you do start to cut you will still have some traffic left over.
Andrew
Log:
The results of my first test were exciting to say the least. I know this is nothing compared to what you guys do. But I was extremely surprised and excited to find I was actually only 10 cents away from breaking even on my direct link.
Granted I did only get 1853 impressions since the GEO is tiny and targeting is narrow I still got 2 conversions at .64 each out of it which I was not expecting and got me really excited seeing first hand this stuff is real. That also shows serious potential in the offer. Especially considering I didn't even use a landing page and have done no optimization whatsoever.
Following MrPayne’s advice I have already steered way off course of my original plan and instead launched 8 more campaigns now including Ghana and Kenya in order to cast a wider net. As well as my original camps in Panama. I wanted to do a larger GEO as he suggested, but these were the only offers I was approved for at the moment. The other ones I thought I had in Bulgaria and Vietnam seem to of been pulled. So I am now working on getting approved for more offers, and more networks as I wait for data. As soon as I am approved for the offers in larger GEO’s they will be launched as well.
I now have a total of 9 campaigns with each GEO running 3 offers. Ghana, Kenya, and Panama with payouts ranging from .20-.64
Progress
- Launched 9 campaigns in 3 GEO’s. Currently waiting on each to hit statistical significance before I post results. Instead of my original plan of testing all offers in one. And only changing from Panama once all other factors were optimized.
- I have begun applying for more offers in larger GEO’s in Expertmobi
- Applied for many more offers on
Mobidea . Currently waiting approval to run them. Excited to find many of the same offers on both networks so I may split test between network. - Begun Applying to Clickdealer, Mpire, Adsimilis, Appflood and Mundomedia. So I may have a wider range of offers.
- I will also be going on offervault and odigger to find any other networks that have a good amount of these types of offers in a larger GEO.
- Will continue to gather and perfect more landing pages as I wait for results. Make sure optimized for speed, media queries and scripts working etc.
Questions
1)Not trying to argue against your advice at all, I’m curious could you elaborate on why direct linking in the beginning is not good? I’m really confused why I wouldn’t want to do that.
If the offer url is something so simple like this
And longest running landing pages promoting them are almost always very similar to the the offer URL looking like this
Why would it not be better to direct link in the first round of tests? I feel that way it would make them think they are still on the site they were previously viewing. Especially if I targeted something like downloads/file sharing etc. categories only. It would also give me a nice base to test against, and also remove the variable of the landing page so I can be sure that the offer is the best and the page wasn’t messing with results.
I can also test quicker without having to translate landing pages before I know that the Geo/landing page is even any good.
I’m not trying to avoid ripping/creating landers at all. I already have over a dozen already prepared just for this campaign. But direct linking to find the offer and then testing pages off the winner afterwards seemed like a logical way to begin.
2) How can I make sure that the bid is not effecting ROI when mass testing offers? Should I just run with the average bid suggested on PopAds on each?
Congrats on getting some conversions. Be careful with how you pump yourself up, emotions can be a rollercoaster in this business. This offer may have some potential to be profitable but I wouldn't call it 'serious potential'.
How much did you spend on the test? show some screenshots. You will likely need more traffic to determine anything.
Answer 1 - It's not that you shouldn't direct link, its just that many cases you won't get much results by direct linking. Even if the download offer is like the image you showed above.. think about what influences them to input their number? If a random landing page popped up on your phone would you click download? You have to make them want to download. The 2nd image does a better job of that because it simulates a download in progress icon, making the visitor think they need to download and then when they realize its now working, they click the button to their relevant carrier and then the actual conversion happens. These are likely 1-click content offers.
Answer 2 - Ultimately you will want to test different bid levels at some point but in the beginning I just test with one bid that is (average bid x 1.5) = test bid. Everyone has a different approach but my main goal at first is just to find an offer that is converting.
Cheers on the progress.
Andrew
I let the campaign run for a while after posting so it got more impressions without a conversion and lower ROI. But still pretty close to breakeven.
I don't have a
Okay yeah that makes a lot of sense. So would you suggest me choosing a lander that has been running for a while on adplexity to be my test lander for the offers, and then go back and start mass testing landers once I've found a winner?
Thanks a ton for the advice you've already got me going in directions I was not planning on taking and have me feeling more confident with this.
Point it spending $1.51 doesn't tell you much.
You will probably have a hard time getting much volume in the geo you are in.
Your testing method is for you to decide upon. For me, I usually split test 3 ripped landers from AdPlexity, if you wanna to throw in partially direct linking into the mix, that's up to you.
Most importantly just run enough traffic to all of them to determine which one is performing best.
You need to set your daily spending to atleast $10/day or you will not get anywhere fast.
Andrew
True I don't get much out of it that test wasn't to pick an offer just to see if I setup my tracking correctly. That's why I was so shocked to even see conversions. But for some reason
When running with 3 landers right from the beginning to find a good offer how do you know that the data isn't being screwed up by the page? For example if I had offers A, B, C linked to landers A, B, C to make 3 camps, and offer B is not converting so I cut the 2nd camp. How do I know if its the landing page or the offer that is leading to loss in conversions? Shouldn't a test have all variables be the same same except one?
The problem is your campaign structure. You don't seperate offers A, B, C, and landers A, B, C.
In your scenario, you'd have 1 campaign:
Rotating 3 offers
Rotating 3 landers
Focused on 1 Geo
Run enough traffic that you can look at the stats in
Setting it up in the above format, when you go into
Also, if you're direct linking you're only going to have a stats for your Visits column. If you're running a lander in the campaign you should then see stats for both the Visits and Clicks column.
Andrew
I am also surprised I have not grasped that or many other things you have taught me so far. I’ve been obsessively reading for months. I guess I was reading so much without practicing that I have overloaded myself and didn’t retain the information. Thanks so much for your patience and answering my request I’d be pretty lost right now without your guidance this has been a steep and expensive learning curve.
I apologize for not updating this in so long. Completely failing in my
I have restructured my campaign. Following MrPayne’s wisdom I’ve made the following changes..
- Am now using more than just one affiliate network. I now have 90 offers available to me. Nearly all are entertainment subscriptions.
- Have begun testing in more than one geo. I am now launching in 2 immediately to cast a wider net instead of only leaving my single starting geo after optimizing all other factors. With many more ready to take their place as offers are cut.
- Have begun testing in larger geo. Instead of only the single tiny geo of panama I am now testing in Sri Lanka, Iraq, Bulgaria and Thailand. I’ve made sure to check the inventory sheets of popads before exploring the geo and each is many times larger than any I was targeting before.
- Stopped direct linking and begun using landers from the beginning.
- Realized my error in campaign setup. I had previously thought that 1 offer and 1 lander is 1 campaign. Now I have entered in 3 offers and 3 landers into one campaign
Voluum and popads campaign for each of my starting 2 geo’s. (This is the right way to do it, right?) - Understand importance of keeping a consistent testing bid. I am now using average bid x 1.5 for all campaigns to keep consistency in data within them. Before I was justing taking the average bid and making it a good bit higher with no rhyme or reason.
- Understand it’s okay to go for a slightly higher payout. Instead of only applying for offers which were around .20-.50 I am now also applying for and planning to use offers which are 1-1.25 This has greatly expanded the offers and geo’s available to me and future profit potential.
So now my campaign looks like this I have decided to only launch 2 camps at a time so I don’t overwhelm myself or budget. But I now have endless geo’s, offers, and landers to replace them.
Camp 1: Iraq
Offer 1: Payout .96
Offer 2: Payout .96
Offer 3: Payout 1.1
Lander 1:
Lander 2:
Lander 3:
Daily budget: $10
Bid: Avg Bid x 1.5
Source: Popads
Network: Mobidea
Camp 2: Bulgaria
Offer 1: Payout .45
Offer 2: Payout $1
Offer 3: Payout $1
Lander 1:
Lander 2:
Lander 3:
Daily budget: $10
Bid: Avg Bid x 1.5
Source: Popads
Network: ExpertMobi
Next steps
- Wait for each offer to reach 10x payout and pause traffic
- Enter data into stats calculator
- Cut all offers which did not reach 90% chance of being best
Questions
After I have ran my first test with the goal of finding best offer, Which should be around $30 per camp and paused traffic. Can I cut landing pages and offers at the same time if I see they are not performing? I remember reading to not cut multiple variables unless if you know what you are doing, which I most certainly do not. But I don’t see why I wouldn’t cut them both if the Bayesian and stats calculators are telling me which is best?
Could someone please move this to the proper section and edit the title with the proper follow along tag?
So both campaigns are doing much worse than expected. I've got no conversions at all and I'm not too sure what to make of this.
Here are the results of the Bulgaria campaign. After 18.52 spend I won't bother posting the stats for the Iraq campaign as they are pretty much the same after $15 spend. With nothing converting at all -100% ROI all the way through.
What should I do? Do I need different offers, Geo, landers? I'm pretty lost at this point.
Hey man I don't have much advice cause I'm still learning myself, but I wanna say keep going! The outline you've posted here is basically what I'm attempting so I'm interested to follow what you're doing--will keep tabs on this thread and just keep going! I'm really interested to see how this plays out.
My novice guess would be that $18 spend might not be enough for data? Or maybe the data wasn't tracked right? I doubt either of these explanations are true but hopefully someone with experience can dive in and offer guidance.
Originally Posted by thepinkcat
Originally Posted by brandonsharpe
Here are the results of the Bulgaria campaign. After 18.52 spend I won't bother posting the stats for the Iraq campaign as they are pretty much the same after $15 spend. With nothing converting at all -100% ROI all the way through.
What should I do? Do I need different offers, Geo, landers? I'm pretty lost at this point.
Zero conversions indicates the offers are not good.
You can rotate some new offers into it.
However, I would stop the campaign and move on into another GEO.
When you make the campaign work, you won't be able to scale it to worthwhile levels.
Bulgaria has only 7 mio. people.
For pinsubmits my cut off is 40+ mio.
Only exception are high payouts in the range of $15-20, with those you can do good damage even in smaller GEOs.
I would keep testing Iraq and look into some other GEOs in the middle east region as well.
With the right offers, its rather easy to make the region work.
Test always on 2 traffic sources to rule out its not just a weak inventory thats messing up the campaign.
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