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Adult Dating and Cams (30)

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Ok all, i've been a member now since Jan 17 and I've been learning all I can. I got myself a Voluum account, Adobe CC, A general free tube traffic source in TJ and a Member area traffic source (for the cams) I've made a couple of banners and I've created some campaigns. I've got myself accepted on a cake based CPA network for dating offers and a hasoffers based network (Crak) I'm going direct to AWEmpire for my Cam offers.

I know Focus is key and I do seem to have split myself in 2 but I have good reason to keep at the Cam's. So I will run it anyway alongside. My primary goal however is to learn the AM art using the Dating offers from the traditional CPA networks.

So I set myself 2 campaigns on TJ - one an offer from Crak and the other an Offer from Advidi.

I've run them over one week and collected some data using a crak provided banner and landing page - Targeting UK
Results are:
685,007 impressions for 67 clicks 0.010(CTR) with zero conversions - running for 4 days

for the Advidi offer I've used my own Banner
Results are:
465,225 Impressions for 206 clicks 0.044(CTR) with one conversion - running for 2 days

Clearly my own banner works better and I'm not to impressed with the Crak team so far compared to Advidi who are much more helpful. So I will kill the crak campaign and just focus on the advidi.

I have narrowed the bids on TJ to those spots that seem to perform better and slightly increased the bid amounts. I will create a new banner today and split test them to see which does better over 2 days.

I would really appreciate any advice on how I can proceed from here with optimisations and also general advice.

On the CAM side of things well. I have a lander and a direct whitelabel. I have been getting good traffic but no conversions yet from either TJ or the member area source (which is quite expensive) I am
doing some SEO on the CAM and a twitter campaign to cover social and organic growth - this is a long term one for me and I dont expect results overnight. Gotta put in the work right! I am on a revshare for this one and hope to get a good income over time. Any advice on how I can improve this strategty is also welcome.

Many thanks
PJ

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Not trying to rain on your parade but promoting CAMs on Tube Sites via paid traffic is very tough (if not impossible?) given the conversion rates. When I first started in Adult I tried to promote CAMs on TJ and I lost my shirt lol. I never used Members Area traffic, so I can't comment on that, but for standard tube sites (ie pornhub, redtube, youporn etc) I don't think the numbers can work.

I think most experienced affiliates would probably advise against it. Tube sites tend to be dominated by Adult Dating offers.

For CAMs the long-term play seems to be organic traffic through SEO using review sites etc. Im sure social media traffic could work as well if done properly.

I noticed you did say you have a good reason to promote cams, so this point could be moot. I never had any special deals or anything like that, so maybe your circumstances are different.

Either way good luck

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Thanks Jabong, yes your right I have seen just about everyone advise against using Tube aka TJ on cams. Really I used it as a means of learning the Voluum and TJ setups but I will take your advice and not waste money on sending any more traffic from there. I'll keep at it strictly from the member area source.

Any advice on the dating offers strategy? I could sure use some.

Thanks for replying

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Hello PJ!

Jabong is right, general tube traffic isn't converting well for cams and since the prices are set in bidding by the dating affiliates, you don't stand much chance there. You might be able to make it work when going very niche and focusing on placements that are being overseen by the competition from some reason.

Members area traffic can work, but as you have already figured out yourself, it's expensive as hell.

Cams can be solid money makers, but the best way of obtaining traffic for that is by doing SEO.

Back to dating now : your CTRs on Tj are way low, are you using the tier3 placements? I'd suggest to try their premium placements instead, you need to have a CTR of abotu 0.1%-0.2% or higher, depending on the GEO. Prepare lots of banners, lots of LPs and test, test, test ... there is no other way.

I also have the same opinion about crackrevenue, I always saw them as a network that is focused on affiliates who have their own traffic and not on media buyers, so not the best pick for us over here. Advidi is a solid network, but there are so many more that you can try, many post here on STM and pretty much all networks have adult/casual dating offers.

Good luck for now, looking forward to your progress and more questions

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When you run Jasmin, rather get a WL from them for Fatgirls or any niche site, otherwise it will be very hard. Jasmin is also super saturated from there own deals. If you dont wanna run a niche I would rather try an other player on the market...

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Thanks Matuloo, BTW I'm a big fan. Been reading many of your posts on here and also you blog - Good work man. Really helpful to beginners like myself.

Already stopped buying traffic for the cams - including the member area stuff - just too expensive until I learn what I'm doing more. I will keep that to SEO on my whitelabel and settle myself in for a long haul.

Regarding the Dating -- So I am focusing on the one offer now from Advidi and restricted my ad spot bidding to increase the CTR on the premium spots. Anything less than 0.15 I've binned off. So I presume I will get a big reduction on number of impressions but should get more bang for my buck. I'll monitor that now for a day or two.

Added another banner and will compare how each performs. I'll get some more banners ready as well. Do you think I should use an additional lander before sending through to the offer creative page?

Any other optimisations I should look at during this stage?

Cheers

PJ

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Thanks Blueflag - yes i am running my own whitelabel off Jasmin. Am struggling to find a niche to narrow down on cams though to focus it on - apart from sexy european women that is I will give this some serious thought.

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Get a fetish one - I know a lot of guys in the biz, Studioowners, Affiliates, Models and we even have a own Camcompany in the holding. Slaves are good, if you are lucky you get some money pigs. Fat chicks are some of the highest earning models and one guy banks big time with Grandmothers :-)- our inhouse efforts are currently on Latin Chicks... Ahhhhhhhh it feels so good to talk about this things after focusing on Mainstream the last year!

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Hehe, I feel you ... adult always pulls us back from some reason

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Listen to Blueflag on this : the $ in cams go hand in hand with niches - european women is so broad, it's not a niche anymore, you need to dig deeper. BBW, as he suggests is actually a very cool niche to start with. The good part is, even slightly overweight women fit this, no need to really hunt for the super sized ones.

Check this for great stats on what people on adult sites are looking for : http://www.pornhub.com/insights/?s=year+in+review

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Don't add "another" banner, add another dozen! Adult is moving fast, you really need to keep the same tempo You need to figure out what type gives you solid CTR and still converts, then focus on that type and fire up more versions.

You definitely need a landing page, dating isn't really working without landing pages. Offers are trying to look like LPs in some cases, but a landing page still improves the performance usually. Definitely get some and test.

Thanks for the kind words btw!

Mat.

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Big thanks to all of you for the advice so far.

Ok latest is that I have followed your suggestions. Got myself 2 Landing Pages setup and 6 new banners so lets see which ones perform better.
Also thanks to Mat's advice I've focused down on the bidding and increased my overall CTR to 0.42 so getting better quality click throughs for a lot less traffic.

Loaded up the 2 landing pages today and added more banners - waiting on approval now. All setup in Voluum. So I will post the results after tomorrow.

STM really does rock. I'd not have gotton this far this quickly without the help of the members. Also found really good tutorial videos from Zeno on setting up Voluum and Vortex for using Photoshop. Really good vid from Zeno on Muse - however Im an old fashioned boy so using IntelliJ and DW for my Landing pages

Cheers Guys

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Cool man, I'm glad you are moving in the right direction!

And you are right, STM is an awesome place that can cut down the learning curve for anyone, who takes the extra step and actually asks for advice and reads all the great guides we have in the archives already

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Hi All, ok time to update my follow along. Seem to have hit a bit of a wall.

I tried several banners and 3 landers. over the last 3-4 days I have removed the banners that were not performing and qualified the best lander of the 3 and closed off the other 2.

So now I have a seemingly well performing banner that gets me a good CTR of about 0.45 and the landing page is registering follow through CTR of about 22-23% - To me that seems quite good perhaps someone here will tell me otherwise but out of 100 clicks I am getting 22 click throughs to the final offer from the lander. However getting conversions on the offer itself seems to still be really hard. Out of 2,280 Clicks from Banner
190 Clicks to offer from lander
5 conversions

Any tips on what to try next? or is it just more banners and landers - changes to my lander to make the offer more attractive that will win the day?

Thanks in advance

Paul

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I would sat that the offer is not really good. Assuming that you are using the typical banner styles and LP formats ... 190 clicks and 5 conversions is very poor. I'm not sure what offer you are pushing and in what GEO, but even for a high paying DOI offer, you should see a conversion in every 20 clicks or so.

Can you tell me more about what you are promoting?

And what kinda banners are you using? The CTR is quite high for dating banners.

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HI Matuloo,
I'm promoting a UK only offer - so my GEO is targetting the UK desktop based. - I know this a tall ask for a beginner as its a TIER 1 GEO but is the only offer I was given when I signed up - so I guess they are trying me out. I have been sent a list of newly launched offers today so maybe I;d be better trying those but again they are mostly Tier 1 geo specific - AU, IT, ES, FR, US - seems to be based on the same creatives.

Its a casual dating offer I am trying to promote in UK from Advidi called shagcity. Seems to be a pretty standard DOI offer.

Happy to share more details and the banners etc.. how best to do that?

Paul

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A number of UK offers went down lately, I would move away from that GEO for now, you're not the first one who is complaining.

I know there were some new launches in DE, try to ask for that maybe.

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Cool, thanks for that advice. I'll give it another GEO a try and see if advidi will give me a different offer. In general though is my approach the correct one and are my assumptions on CTR correct?
In Terms of a 0.3 to 0.4 banner click through to Lander and a 20% click through Lander to Offer or should I really aim for higher?

Big thanks for the advice on I should be aiming to get a 1 in 20 conversion. Its information like that the helps people like me know if i'm getting it right or wrong.

Cheers

Paul

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I can give you some general numbers, but keep in mind those are just averages and it can be quite different in your case. For desktop traffic, banner ctr can be anywhere between 0.1% all the way up to 0.4% - anything below 0.1% is not likely to make you profit and going above 0.4% is pretty rare. In case of mobile traffic, the numbers are generally a bit higher, 20-30% higher.

As for LP ctr, 20% is already very solid for mobile traffic and contrary to the banner CTRs, the LP ctr is usually higher with desktop traffic. You should aim for 30%, but even 20% can be enough to see profit.

As a general rule of thumb, the higher the banner and LP ctr, the lower the final CVR will be ... because there is something misleading in the funnel. You need to find the sweet-spot. You want to move around 10% CVR from LP clicks in case of SOI offers, DOI will have lower CVR, about 5% is still ok, even less with high payout offers.

Such are the averages I have seen myself

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Ok - update time.
Following the last lot of advice - I changed the offer to an SOI one that had a selection of different offer pages - I tested 3 of them started getting conversions - 2 -3 per day. I removed some more adspots and focused in on ones that were hitting my lander more.

SOME MAGIC HAPPENED - on saturday I woke and checked my stats - 5 conversions in 4 hours - Somewhat amazed I drank coffee and checked again - another conversion. 3 more throughout the day.

Left everything alone in case it was an abberation. Been a bit slower today - only 5 conversions. but it is sunday after all.

I've upped my daily limit to improve my overall impressions so lets see if I can scale this as I am breaking even now. So the stats are

Saturday - 64k impressions - 122 visits to lander - 43 click to offer and 8 conversions
Sunday - so far 35k impressions - 116 visits - 40 clicks to offer and 5 conversions

Interesting is that Mat said the CTR could well drop if my conversions increased and he was right on the money.

I'll post again in a few days and let you know how my attempts to scale go.

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Cool man, I see we are getting somewhere here

The CVR looks way better now too.

Keep going and report back ... ask away if you have questions...

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Update time. Sorry its been a few days but Ive been trying various things out and generally getting confused by all the variables.

I was making progress with an offer - I seemed to have a decent funnel and was getting 5-8 conversions a day - but the downside was the offer payout was too low for me make any profit.
I tried to scale it but that didn't work out so well. I tried a different offer, a different GEO and I bombed out.

So now I am pausing the campaigns whilst I take stock.

What have I learned:

1) ad spot selection is crucial - as is bid amount to actually get any volume of traffic. Has a big impact on funnel if I chose the wrong spots

2) Funnel tuning - testing various banners/LP's in combination and what statistically works at a low bidrate may not work at scale

3) Offers - the right offer is also key. I've tried changing offers within a campaign and also the GEO I am targeting - due to offer being geo specific.

I think I really messed this up when I changed the offer and GEO - I invalidated everything I'd done up to the point when I was getting a decent number of conversions.
The problem I had that made me do that was that my offer wasnt paying enough for me to break even and scaling it didnt work.

So Where and What next is the question. I think I'll start the process again from scratch - hope the network doesnt give up on me yet.

Any advice on or insights anyone may have on where it went wrong here I'd like to hear it.
Cheers

Paul

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Hello,

if the offer didn't pay enough, it probably wasn't a good offer or your funnel wasn't good enough.

Not all offers work and not all funnels work either. On top of that, some offer work only with very specific funnels, you need to find the right match so to speak.

Large part of adult campaigns is just about testing - finding the right females to use on creatives and matching it with the right offers.

And that's what you need to focus on ... how many offers/banners/LPs have you tested so far?

Let me also address your 3 observations :

1. ad spots matter a lot, make sure you target different spot types in different campaigns - dont mix footer with headers for example
2. this is true as well, even thou usually a larger bid rate brings better traffic. Sometimes I see performance drops when I bid too high thou, try to stay around the 3rd place.
3. good offer is crucial, if the offer sucks, there is no chance to make it work.

You mentioned a GEO change in the middle of a running campaign - don'd do this, it's like starting a new campaign from scratch and all the previous data becomes irrelevant.

Mat.

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Update Time.

After the last post I paused and took stock.

I've read and read again Matuloo's - How not to give up on Affiliate Marketing before you master it. Post - Quite inspirational - but I'd really like to know how you worked out that the traffic you were buying was what the pros left for newbies. Reason I ask is that I think that is what is happening with me. I zeroed in on the spot that was giving me the best click throughs - that just happened to be the most expensive slot which even though I have a good CTR over .25 with a lander that gets 28% clicks to offer the offer payout is to low to cover the cost of the ad spot.

1) would the logical step for me be to port this campaign to other adult sources to see if I can get a positive ROI on a wider range of spots?
2) should I attempt to get a higher payout on the same offer from a different network if I can find it or try direct.

Is the fact that at a low daily test spend the figures dont tell the full story - as when I try and increase volume the ctr drops and I dont get many more conversions. - but as this is on the adspot previously mentioned am I making a newbie error in trying to scale a spot the pro's only use for testing?

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Im a strong believer in that 80% of success in this thing is finding the right offer + traffic source combo.

I am not sure if you're still promoting ShagCity in the UK, but any Tier 1 GEO is pretty much going to be impossible to profit unless you have some sort of advantage.

Advantages come with better creatives, better payout, cheaper traffic or any combination of these things.

Im going to assume since you are a newbie you probably don't have any of these advantages.

If you got the cash there are several ways you can get these advantages:

1. Send a ton of volume (at a loss) and then get an increased payout and try to recoup losses.
2. Buy traffic in bulk to get lower prices (don't recommend this for newbies)

If you don't got the cash I would consider a Tier 2 or Tier 3 GEO. I am with Advidi too and they have plenty of good offers in Tier 2 and Tier 3 Geos.

Tier 1 I am convinced is IMPOSSIBLE to crack without an advantage, as you are competing with other affiliates that have these advantages, not to mention in-house media buyers that just don't give a f*** what they pay for the ad spot.

Just my .02. Good luck.

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Paujacks, you have a number of options now :

1. you can try to run the campaign on a different source or spots, because sometimes a funnel performs differently on another site/spot/source. But usually, you want to find a good campaign first, then transfer it to other sources. You didn't tell us much about where you are running now, what kind of spots, what source ...

2. keep searching for a better funnel, better banner, better LPs ... did you test the various offer URLs for example? They perform differently too.

3. build your advantage - now we're coming to what jabong82 described, to stay competitive in tier1 GEOs, you need an edge, usually higher payout. So you need bumps. But even without a bump, you should be close to breakeven, because it's very rare to get a bigger than 20%-30% bump, even that is very high already.

As for the other questions/concerns you raised.

- it's true that there are some go-to spots for fast testing, thing thelikes of xhamster NTVs for example. I'm using it personally too, when I need a quick test with a ton of data, I go to a large spot like that and bid high. In that case, I don't care about profits, so yes, it's very hard to compete with someone who's just testing and expecting a loss.

- low volume pretty much always performs differently from high volume campaigns - it's usually connected with different CAP, higher bid, bigger exposure and faster burnout. Im usually having the best results with "medium" volume, I don't fight for the top spots at all costs, but I also don't like to scratch the bottom.

I have to emphasize what jabong82 wrote : right offer + right source is very important. The offer is #1, if that sucks, you have no chance.

Please, try to find your luck in a different GEO than UK or US, you don't have to go straight to India or other developing country, but try something like Spain, Italy... maybe Germany ... there are several lower payout SOI offers for these and they are converting pretty well.

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Thanks for the advice both Jablong and Matuloo.

Actually I gave up pretty early on shagcity as it simply didnt convert. I switched to Dailyaffair on SOI and got much better results 5-8 conversions a day on $25 max budget burn on traffic junky. I quickly found redtube and tubex NTV spots were getting most clicks. BUT they are expensive. and the 2 and a bit dollars conversion payout doesnt break even. So maybe the offer does suck but nearly all the SOI offers I can access dont really pay much more.

I'll take your advice and scrap these test campaigns - after all it was my first attempt so hardly likely to make a success of it but I have learned a lot. I dont have the advantages you mentioned. Yes I am brand new to this. But I can when I find something that works throw a couple of grand a month at it to get it going. Not a massive amount but not small change either

I also tried a DOI on denmark offer - again from advidi but my attempts at a local language lander I think was probably a bit pathetic. Any advice on where I can get reasonable cost translation services from? Also on the denmark campaign I found it VERY difficult to get any volume at all. Even when I upped the daily amount to $300. I was bidding the same spots and aiming high bids but still only just scraping 10k impressions a day - tried to switch to RON but again only got 5k impressions. Killed it and gave it up at this point.

I read that all european countries are Tier 1 - but you say Italy, spain and even germany could be worth a try. I will do that - but I need local language translation on my landers - where do you go for this?

Cheers

Paujacks

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You definitely need proper translation of your LPs, do NOT even attempt to run without making sure your creatives are properly translated!

There are many ways to approach this, there is the popular but expensive onehourtranslations.com, then there is upwork or fiverr that you can use (always look for native speakers) and there are spytools like adplexity that you can use to rip already translated LPS (have someone to check them as you never know who did the translations). You can also services that specialize in AM stuff, @IamAttila runs bannerslanders.com and transey.com ... and Im sure there are more like this.

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Countries like Denmark, Sweden, Austria etc. are small countries so naturally there won't be a lot of volume.

For translations just go to onehourstranlation.com. I get my landers translated there. You can translate a standard "rules lander" for like $10-15 depending on what language.

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If anyone needs solid and qualified traffic for live cams (we offer member's area traffic/pops from dating networks) and we also offer premium mailers that specialize in live cams, dating, ED, nutra, diet, seduction etc...

We work with a lot of the top guys in these fields, feel free to give us a shout if you want some help. Best of luck with your campaigns!

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