Daddy Wants a Sweet Running POP Campaign! (13)
Hey everyone,
Here with another follow along. This time, following a bit more of what I have been reading here in terms of adequately testing offers.
My goal was to test 3 different GEOs with as many offers as I could find for the vertical I was targeting. I realised that I don't have the expertise or time to focus adequately on that amount, so I will just work with one at a time. Im still working full time in my non-AM related job and still a dedicated father and family man, so I only get a short amount of time to work on campaigns each day.
So I started by asking my AMs for their top GEOs and across 3 AMs, I had one GEO that came up across two networks. So that became the GEO I chose. I ripped a few landers and applied for every offer I could. Now the offers werent exactly the same, so I had a different number of landers for certain offers than other. But with this, my plan was to run more traffic to these offers to account for it [based on running 3*(no. landers)*(average offer payout)*(no. offers of that type)]Here is a table to summarize my initial test phase the offers:
| Offer Number | Affiliate Network | Number of Landers | Amount Spent (as multiple of offer price) | No. conversions | ROI |
| Offer 1 | Network 1 | 2 | 7.5x | 2 | -76% |
| Offer 2 | Network 2 | 2 | 7.2x | 5 | -30% |
| Offer 3 | Network 2 | 4 | 4.8x | 0 | -100% |
| Offer 4 | Network 3 | 4 | 42x (this was an error in how I setup my campaign) | 4 | -90% |
| Offer 5 | Network 4 | 2 | 5x | 0 | -100% |
| Offer 6 | Network 5 | 2 | 12x | 0 | -100% |
From here I can see there was a clear winner in terms of offers. So I ran the winning offer (offer 3) by itself with only its landers for the next few days and here are those results:
| Offer Number | Affiliate Network | Number of Landers | Amount Spent (as multiple of offer price) | No. conversions | ROI |
| Offer 3 | Network 2 | 2 | 19x | 3 | -84% |
So first off, just would like the opinion of how people think I went with my testing. Also, having documenting it here, I realized I didn't test Offer 3 enough. I spent half of what I should have to properly test it.
What I think I should do is the following (please provide feedback on if my process is decent):
- Test Offer 3 out more
- Continue to run traffic to Offer 2 to gather data
- Start to modify the ripped landers to see if I can tweak them to higher ROI
Focus on offer 2 (-30% ROI) and search if its available on other networks for a split.
Run your camp for a couple of days and dive deep into the data.
If you find something that stands out, a certain carrier, os, device, big placement, break it out and run it as solo camp. Then you have already a green camp.
On the main camp, test a couple different landers / variations / headers. Test all scripts you can find. Intro/Exit pop, vibration, back button. But don't waste too much time with the lander, its an rather small leverage compared to other factors like the offer, geo and traffic source. As well take a look into the day parting, once you have more data.
Then start cutting placements. On pops its nothing unusual to cut 50%+ placements to get a camp green.
As well, if you haven't mapped the network yet, the probability is high that there are very good placements which will open up only with way higher bids. You can pack everything that is sending traffic at this point into a big black list and then run a new camp with high big. But thats something that comes after the points I have addressed above.
If you're not stacking within a week or two, kill it and repeat what you have done. Testing a huge amount of offers and focusing on the one with the most traction is a sure path to hitting a winner sooner or later.
Hey, Scott!
To begin with, it seems to me that your starting process seems good. I would focus on offer 2, and I don’t understand why you stated that offer 3 was a CLEAR winner.
Was it because it was the one that spent less? It’s a good indicator. Even so - if it doesn’t convert well - it’s not much use for it to spend less, right? This means that - in my opinion - offer 2 seems the most promising.
The next steps are the usual ones you should follow, very well described by Sebastian above. Run the campaign for some days and start working on the data you've gathered. I’m sure you’ll be able to find certain parameters that are doing well above average and in this case, you should split them into individual campaigns, which will allow you to have some green campaigns quicker.
You should definitely continue testing many variations on the main campaign, to continue to find what suits it best.
It’s important to remember that you started well and that the offer is promising. However, you’ll do this process, or similar, countless times still. So, if you don’t reach a nice level of profitability this time, continue testing and it will come about eventually.
Best of luck for you!
Cheers!
The advice from the others is already good but I wanted to chip in with my 2 cents.
You have 2 landers for some so you actually have to drill into landers reports too, and have 1 row here for each lander as well. For example, Offer 1 with lander 1 could be close to as good as offer 2 and lander 1, if lander 1 and lander 2 with offer 2 are equal. You know what I mean?
Offer 1 - lander 1 - 2 conversions
Offer 1 - lander 2 - 0 conversions
Offer 2 - lander 1 - 3 conversions
Offer 2 - lander 2 - 2 conversions
When you test more variables, which you are essentially doing here, you have to extract data for each possible path the user takes, and see which is best, and which is so bad you should stop already. Think of your funnel like having a sieve at the bottom and after every test, you adjust the sieve. Whatever passes, you test more until you get the best one.
Maybe in your specific case it doesn't make a difference but you should certainly keep it in mind for later.
Thanks everyone for your replies.
Here are my comments specific to the helpful people who replied and further data i have got:
sebastian_r:
- none of the other networks have this offer right now.
- i have looked for any carrier, os, device or big placement and the only thing I can see is that android is where the conversions are happening
Mobidea:
- sorry, i meant offer 2 was the winner!
manu_adefy:
- thanks for your input on the landers. See my further info for what I did with the data I had.
My progress:
- I identified offer 2 as the offer I wanted to run. But I also wanted to test offer 3 a bit more to give it a fair chance.
- I sent more traffic than I should have to offer 3 with 0 conversions, and further confirming offer 2 was the one to go with. So now I had an offer.
- I changed the campaign to only split test the landers for offer 2. For the 2 landers, I had a stastically significant difference between the two (2538 clicks for 8 conversions vs 10275 clicks for 5 conversions) so i cancelled the losing lander and made some modifications to the lander i kept to try make a better version (so far after 4 days there isnt a statistical difference between the two)
Here is a run down of my days (this is just for this offer 2 now, I am not including the losses from the other offers):
| Date | Amount Spent in multiples of offer payout | No. conversions | ROI |
| 8/11/2016 | 1x | 0 | -100% |
| 9/11/2016 | 1x | 0 | -100% |
| 10/11/2016 | 0.5x | 2 | 329% |
| 11/11/2016 | 1.4x | 0 | -100% |
| 12/11/2016 | 4x | 3 | -25% |
| 13/11/2016 | 0 | 0 | 0% |
| 14/11/2016 | 0 | 0 | 0% |
| 15/11/2016 | 4.6x | 0 | -100% |
| 16/11/2016 | 4.7x | 2 | -57% |
| 17/11/2016 | 9x | 1 | -89% |
| 18/11/2016 | 4.5x | 4 | -12% |
| 19/11/2016 | 4.5x | 2 | -56% |
| 20/11/2016 | 9.3x | 2 | -79% |
The multiples change due to my daily budget and how many offers I was testing. I started running more traffic to offer 3 on the 18 and 19th, hence why my amount spent halved. Then on the 20th i only ran traffic to the single offer, hence why the multiple returned to about 10x which is what I am spending each day.
The ROI is a bit all over the place at the moment. But that is because I was sending traffic to bad offers. From here on, it should be a bit more useful data.
I cant seem to find any particular combinations that are giving me green.
I have some further problems that arent serving me too well:
- I'm using FunnelFlux, which doesnt have the carrier info. This means I'm relying on my traffic source for that info, and so far there is a lot of N/A
- FunnelFlux also doesnt easily differentiate Wifi traffic vs Carrier traffic so I dont know if one is more profitable. I think I may need to seperate my campaign into 2 at the traffic source
Future changes:
- What I have yet to do is change the bid for my campaign. I am still bidding quite high, and I am now going to try and create two more campaigns with lower bids to see if it affects the conversions I am getting.
- Once I determine if my bid is at a decent enough level to keep running at, I will split the campaign into wifi and carrier.
- I will look to split test another 2-3 landers (wont get a chance to do them today, but tomorrow night I will add them).
If anyone is interested (I know I was in early stages), here is the current run down of costs:
Spent: $580
Revenue: $106
P/L: -$474
At this point I have an offer that has a chance of being profitable.
One of the biggest challenges I am having is getting used to FunnelFlux. I have been using
In case you are planning to work with CARRIER BILLING offers, you simply need a tracker that is able to detect carriers properly. You need to make sure you are buying the right carriers, which is not possible without a tracker with an accurate DB - networks happily use the worst DBs and sell you anything that even comes close to being connected via a carrier 
In some cases you will have to use IP targeting even, and you will have to be able to cross check whether your ranges are ok. Funnelflux is awesome, but your life would be easier with
How much does this offer pay per conversion? I'd like to put things into perspective and know how much you actually spent on it.
What kind of traffic is this? What about the LP CTRs, do you see any performing better over the others?
Its hard to give you some advice, so far I only see that you bought SOME traffic at SOME price, used a few LPs that had SOME ctr and you made a bunch of conversions worth SOMETHING.
For context, the offer payout is $6. I thought I would put multiples of the offer payout because mostly when people quote their costs, everyone wants to know how much of a multiple that is of the offer payout.
The traffic is mobile POPs. The LP CTRs are ~2% and CRV is 0.01%. I have kept my best lander and am attempting tweaks to get it better.
My test to see if buying cheaper traffic proved successful and I am still getting conversions at a cheaper bid price. I have stopped the higher bid campaign and will run more traffic at the cheaper price for more data.
Here is an update of how it is going:
| Date | Amount Spent in multiples of offer payout | No. conversions | ROI |
| 21/11/2016 | 10x | 3 | -67% |
| 22/11/2016 | 10x | 3 | -50% |
2% CTR is quite low for pops. Have a look for some back button scripts to boost it
You certainly need better CTR and also help it with some scripts as Manu suggested.
You also need to make sure that the carrier traffic you are buying, really matches the carriers you need. BTW: is this a carrier billing offer at all, can't really find that info in your previous posts.
It's good that you mentioned how many times the offer payout you have spent, I asked for the payout to actually know how much traffic that was.
Are you running any kind of BOT test?
Did you cut some placements already?
Damn, that 2% is already with a back button script in place! What is a CTR I should be aiming for, with and without a back button script?
Its not a carrier billing offer, it works on wifi too. Here are the details:
Offer converts on Pin Submit (1 click flow)
WAP: SOI
WEB: PIN submit- DOI
I did run a BOT test when i first started the campaign and I thought there were some BOT sites, but when I told my traffic source about them they said they werent BOTs. I ran the botcheck html file that is on here (wher eit redirects after 300ms).
I havent cut placements, I thought it was too early at this point. Do you think I can begin to cut at this stage?
Well PIN submits actually are carrier billing offers, they do work on wifi too, but the flow is no longer a 1-click so the results are usually poor on wifi.
Where are you sending the traffic from the backbutton script? To a new campaign? In case it uses the same click URL as the original campaign, there is definitely some problem with the setup as the CTR should go way higher.
Traffic sources will not admit they are selling bots, but all of them do and all of them know that. It's not possible to be 100% bot free anyways.
You need to make sure you are buying real traffic and also traffic that has good engagement metrics. So if you see placements with too high bot %, you should cut them. The same goes for placements that have super lousy CTR. Get rid of the worst ones. You can always decide to retest them later on.
Ok, sorry there has been a delay in posts. I was struggling to get the tracking to show me anything good. I have bailed on FunnelFlux, as it was too slow and not giving me what I need, and I have gone back to
I restarted the campaign but using domain redirect traffic and here are the results:
4/12
- split tested 3 versions of the one lander trying to improve the CR
- 1 version was worse then the remaining 2 so that got canned
- CTR was ~7% with 1 lander showing -35% ROI and the other +95% ROI
5/12
- still testing for any green combos (mobile, or any carrier)
- the 2 landers not showing any significant difference
- one lander +46% ROI and another +44% ROI
- also identified tablets not converting as well, so sticking to mobile devices only
6/12
- no conversions today
7/12
- 1 conversion so far
When looking for mobile carriers, I have two carriers that have given me conversions and then all the others are in the category of 'Other'. I am trying to run more data before I make any decisions here. I have already narrowed the campaign down to One device type, One OS. I had some positive days a few days ago, just need to see if that can continue.
I have also identified one target which gave me 3 of my conversions, so I have made a whitelist with just that in it so I can up the bid for it.
I have blacklisted only one placement so far, as nothing else has spent over 1x the offer payout.
Any comments would be greatly appreciated.
Hard to comment on this, there are not many conversions and you are generally running at a very low volume.
You need to drive it up. The good thing is, that you seem to have some good LPs when you were able to see some green already.
Focus on smartphones and also on the OS that is giving you better numbers - hope its android for the sake of volume
Try to bid higher or increase CAPs (impressions and budget), to see if you can increase the traffic flow.
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