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Honey Badger returns (34)

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This time I'm using PopAds.

I asked my affiliate manager for sweeps and voucher offers for tier 2 and 3 and selected this sweeps offer for Malaysia. It's an "Win an iPhone" offer.

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Campaign Description & Details:
Geo: MY
Flow: MO
Supported Carriers: WIFI, Maxis, U Mobile
Device: Android Only
Restrictions: No incent, No adult, No opera mini allowed
Banners and LPs don't need approval, but they can't be too agressive! Any violation will lead to payment onhold.
Payout: CPA $2.80
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Tools:
Traffic source: PopAds
CDN: Amazon CloundFront
Tracking: Voluum

Ripped 3 landers.

At the beginning I've created 2 popup campaigns in PopAds, one for Mobile and one for Wifi.
After that I decided to copy them and create 2 more popunder campaigns, one for Mobile and one for Wifi.
One note: for mobile campaigns I didn't selected the carriers to be only Maxis and U Mobile, I allowed all carriers.. This is important and you will see later why.


The bid and daily budget is the same in all of them .
Max bid - 0.0017
Daily budget - $25

Voluum doesn't show the correct cost. The costs from Popads:
Malaysia Video iPhone 6 Wifi Popunder - $23.87
Malaysia Video iPhone 6 Mobile Popunder - $19.95
Malaysia Video iPhone 6 Wifi Popup - $24.06
Malaysia Video iPhone 6 Mobile Popup - $19.61

Screenshots.

Campaigns:


Landers:


Mobile carriers:





Questions:

1. should I stop Popup campaigns?
2. should I follow the requirements and only use Maxis and U Mobile for mobile campaigs?
3. probably I should use my landers 1 and 3 and stop using lander 2?
4. should I add more landers?
5. should I change the bid?

This is my second campaign in PopAds. I want to learn now, it doesn't matter if I earn money or not.

All campaigns are running for 21 hours, what are my next steps?

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Hey,

1. I always choose Popunder (and allow others if Popunder is not available) for PopAds campaigns.
2. Don't know, best to ask affiliate manager or, risk it and say "oops, my mistake" if they say those leads aren't good. When you break any rule, as small as the deviation seems, you take a risk so you have to calculate if it's worth it or not.
3. Lander 1 seems like the huge winner already. Just use a statistical significance calculator, no need to go by guts/rule of thumb for landers usually
4. Depends how confident you are you can make better ones. Always be split testing is a good rule but not always be split testing the same thing perhaps.
5. Split test, don't change

Looking forward to seeing your progress

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My landers chart:



A,B,C - landers 1,2,3

(I've used visits from Voluum for number of trials. Is that correct?)

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That's correct. And yep, looks like Lander 1 is definitely the best one of that list...

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Take out the commas from the Trials column

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Yes, looks like the commas were changing the calculations (

The updated chart:

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I've paused PopAds - Malaysia - Video iPhone 6 - Mobile - Popup campaign. Spend $20.69 on it with 3 conversions.

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I've spend approximately x10 the payout on landing #2 and it's time to cut it.
(just edit the campaign in Voluum and remove the landing page from Lander section)

Keeping lander #3 for now.

For Malaysia Video iPhone 6 Mobile Popunder campaign I removed Celcom Malaysia Sdn Bhd.

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I can be making stupid things because my brain is not realizing anything right now, just tell me what should I do)

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My yesterday's leader is receiving less traffic after I cut Celcom Malaysia Sdn Bhd



Increased the bid till 0.0021

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Stopped second popup campaign, from now will work with both popunder campaigns.

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I've read Ruby Tunes' tutorial and he recommends to create a new campaign of profitable targets.

I have several questions.

1. Voluum shows me that there are profitable placements, but there are no sites which have spent 2-3x the payout yet.
2. Does it mean that it's too early to create a whitelist campaign?
3. The new winning campaign is only for placements, but what about landers? Should I put only the best landers in "winning" campaign? In my case lander #1?

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Report for April 28-30

Campaigns:


Landers for each campaign:




I haven't done any optimization. Any suggestions?

I have a question about "winning" campaign (which I haven't created yet).
If I see that for Wifi campaign I've spent x3 the payout for Malaysia Telecom and it's profitable, I should move Malaysia Telecom to new "winning" campaign?

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Campaigns:


Landers:


I'm going to optimize the placements. Will try to report it as well.

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For Wifi Popunder campaign found that Android 5.0 and browser version Chrome Mobile 50 have spent x3 the payout and were losing money.
Removed them in traffic source (PopAds).

Increased the bid from 0.0017 to 0.0025 (curious how it will affect the results tomorrow).

OS version: Android 5.0
Cost: $12.66
Profit: ($7.06)


Browser Version: Chrome Mobile 50
Cost: $15.40
Profit: ($4.20)


Looks like Chrome Mobile 49 will be next.

For mobile popunder campaign
Removed the same OS and browser version as for wifi campaign. They almost spent x3 the payout and were negative too. Increased the bid to 0.0025.

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I see you are using paths.. It might be easier to segment your traffic using Flows.

Once you want to split it up based on what browser, OS, ISP, etc. it is, in the same campaign, flows do a better job than paths imo.

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Fixed the pictures.

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I can see the justification for splitting carrier and wifi into separate camps, but you may be able to save money by only testing popup or popunder first, then when you're green, scale to the other. Why pay double the cost to optimize 2 sets of camps when you can just use one to test offers and landers?


It's often worth it to test several different bids at the start, both to gauge promise of offers, and to also see which bid will give you the best ROI so you'd be able to save test budget later.

To test different bids: Simply clone your original camp twice so you'd have 3 camps, then set bids to low-average-high, set a low campaign budget on all of them (10-20x payout to each should be enough), and run traffic. Then just pause the 2 giving you the lower ROIs, and use the winner to continue testing your landers and offers. This will likely save you money during testing, and allow you to reach green quicker.


Great observation! The difference in costs can vary from a little bit to a LOT depending on your geo and other targeting options. The worst I've seen on popads is where the actual cost is TWICE the amount shown in Voluum! This means when the ROI shown in voluum was below 100% then I was actually LOSING money. For MY though it's not half as bad, fortunately.


There are several things that need to be clarified regarding carriers:

Firstly: The "Maxis and U Mobile" carriers specified in the offer description, probably refers to carrier traffic ONLY, from those specific carriers. Whereas when you drilled down to "ISP/Carrier", some of the items are from the broadband divisions of the same communications companies. For example, "maxis broadband sdn bhd" is probably the broadband/wifi traffic, and not maxis carrier traffic.

Secondly: PopAds is very weird when it comes to targeting carrier vs. wifi traffic. Please read "Step 1" in this thread for details:

http://stmforum.com/forum/showthread...esting!-Part-1

On popads, you can't always target JUST carrier traffic for a specific carrier. You'll need to perform the CAR/NOCAR test to find out.

Thirdly: If in Voluum, you drill down to "Mobile Carrier", you'll see actual carrier names representing carrier/cellular traffic. The "Other" entry includes wifi traffic and heavens knows what else.

Lastly: As per your observations, sometimes an offer will say "CarrierX traffic only" but then you find that it starts converting for CarrierY. I would HIGHLY recommend that you check with your AM to confirm that the advertiser will pay you for the leads from the other carriers. Otherwise you risk not getting paid.


As for your other questions:

For a step-by-step on how to cut landers, please see:

http://stmforum.com/forum/showthread...Banners-Part-1

I can't read the stats in your screenshots - the numbers are too small. For next time, I would suggest including only up to the "ROI" column in screeshots so that the numbers will appear bigger (easier on aging folks like myself ). Since I can't see the numbers - you can plug them into the split-test calculator yourself to check for statistical significance. Your iphone 1 lander may already be the winner!

And yes - you can for sure test more landers after you've cut down to your last lander. However, I would suggest that you test more offers next, because you can potentially achieve bigger jumps in ROI by testing offers (in general). Once you've tested all of the best offers, you can always test more landers. There aren't that many MY iphone offers out there as far as I can see. At least test all the ones recommended by your affiliate managers across all the networks you're a member of.

Regarding testing of bids - already covered at the start of the post.

Regarding whether to pause popup camps - already mentioned at start of post as well. I always start with popunders because that's usually where the volume is. Then after I get green I'd scale to the other formats.

MY sweeps is hot for sure! Nice choice and congrats on the green! Thank you very much for starting this follow-along.




Amy

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Very nice! You have a winner! And yes - trials are visits.


Haha good eye manu!


Once it falls below 10% "probability of being best" when compared with the "current-best" lander, you could cut it. You may have over-run that one.


Good call!


Although that is great advice for certain situations, for a geo like MY which doesn't have a ton of traffic volume is begin with, it wouldn't be a good idea to start a whitelist campaign.


I would highly suggest that you NOT mess with placements just yet! Test more offers and landers to improve your funnel first. You've already in the green so there's no hurry to cut your losses. The better your funnel is (i.e. your lander+offer), the more money you can make from a larger portion of the traffic available to you. Do not make the typical newbie mistake of trying to cut your way into green, because doing so before you have an optimized funnel will just limit your traffic and revenue potential.

Considering testing at LEAST one round of new offers, and then maybe doing another round of lander-testing, and THEN start cutting placements. This thread will help you:

http://stmforum.com/forum/showthread...Banners-Part-2


Please don't start any whitelist camps just yet! Keep everything in the same camp for now.


Once you have a better funnel, you may want to open this up again for a retest - because it may be profitable then.

This is also why it's good practice to improve the funnel first, and THEN cut stuff.


Yikes! Definitely not a good idea at this point because you've been making money from wifi. You'll need to drill down to "Mobile Carrier" to confirm where your conversions are from.


Testing more offers is GREAT!


I believe that BOTH offers have a lot of potential - it's just that you haven't analyzed stats enough. Definitely don't give up on your first offer yet! The main things you'll need to find out are:

1)When you drill down to "Mobile Carrier", which carriers were in profit, and whether or not wifi ("Other") was in profit.

2)When you drill down to OSs - how did each OS perform?

3)Which carriers the offer's advertiser will accept traffic and conversions from.


Also: Next time, consider adding new offers into the same camp to split-test. You can set up separate paths/flows for separate offer types, e.g.:

Path 1 - iphone 6 offers - iphone 6 landers
Path 2 - iphone se offers - iphone se landers


Probably too many suggestions from me - please ask for clarification if I'm being confusing on any point. Looking forward to your next update!



Amy

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So I can create one flow with 2 paths and assign corresponding landers to them.
Do you recommend that for new offers or for offers which already are in green?

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Hi, I like your follow along. Are you using Malay or English in your landings?

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Malay. I just ripped the pages in Malay.

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You can do this for both situations.

I believe that if you test several bids (be sure to include higher bids) for your first camp, it may return to green. It was doing so well before...



Amy

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I will ask my AM first and if the campaign is still doing well I will try higher bids.
Should I try higher bids with mobile or wifi campaign? (I stopped the mobile campaign yesterday but maybe I should have increased the bids...)

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Ok, I've talked with my AM and he told me that the iPhone 6 offer is doing well and that 90% of conversions is cellular.

I started the cellular campaign again, increased the bid to 0.0077 and set the carriers to Maxis and U Mobile only (these are the requirements).

Traffic estimator:

I guess I should try to run the campaign on another traffic source in addition to PopAds.

Do you think the bid is too high?

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I created 3 PropellerAds's campaign, bid size $7, $3.20 (I'm greedy ) and $1.71 CPM
The campaign are for Malaysia Maxis and U Mobile mobile carriers and the estimated impression number for these bids is much higher than in PopAds, so I decided to pause PopAds campaign.

Anyway PopAds campaign is very slow, probably because of 3000 impressions estimate.
Looking forward to see the results in the morning.

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A quick question - Voluum doesn't track PropellerAds' cost?

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May 6 report.

Propeller's campaigns


Voluum campaigns


Landers


Yesterday I assigned $20 to each Propeller's campaign and the low bid campaign has most conversions.
The funny part is that my affiliate network is showing 27 conversions instead of 24.

Stopped medium and high bid campaigns and lander with only 2 conversions (it sucks anyway, but now I've tested that). Keep running the low bid campaign.

Questions:

1. what should I do now? Test more offers, right?
2. do you know why Propeller's costs are not shown in Voluum?
3. do you think I should keep this Propeller's bid?

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May 8th.

Propeller


Campaigns


Landers


I made a mistake and spend $50 for 3 campaigns for each I'm still learning Propeller.

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@Propeller costs: They don't have a token to track costs so you have to assign a CPM in the Voluum campaign, based on your bid on your actual bid. Usually there's some click loss, so I make the CPM in Voluum a bit higher than the CPM on Propeller and also track costs daily in a separate sheet. This sheet is for all media buying though, so to I don't specifically check each campaign all the time.

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Yes you could always test more offers!

However, it looks like the camp is also ready for scaling to more networks still.

Of course you can do both - scale the current offer and best lander(s) to other networks, at the same time using the propeller camp to test more offers. Also, I remember that you've only tested 3 landers so far - so after a round of offer-testing, testing more landers would be great as well.

Regarding the bid: You've tested 3 bids already. Next you could test a lower bid than $1.71, and a bid between $1.71 and $3.20, to see if you get a better ROI.



What are these new camps about? I see that 2 of them say "iphone 6s" - are you testing new offers?



Amy

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Yes, it was the iPhone 6s for Malaysia, I tested it on Propeller.

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So you recommend to run this offer on other networks too.
Another newbie question - how many networks? 2-3 more networks is enough to begin with?

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In one of the posts you were testing 3 bids on propeller. Then in the next post you had 2 camps for iphone 6s and 2 camps for iphone 6. So were you testing 2 offers?


If you have a camp that's pulling in consistent profits, I would say scale it to all major pop sources.

It would depend on how much cashflow you have too of course, because making deposits on so many sources can restrict your cashflow if you don't have much to begin with (which may or may not be true in your case). Also, some sources require large deposits of $500-5000+.

You're already running on popads and propeller. Other networks that also have carrier targeting are Zeropark and Adcash. (Disclaimer: STM does not endorse any traffic networks. Please exercise due diligence before signing up to any network.) So feel free to give those a try.



Amy

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