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Feeling Uncertain about my Adult Cam Campaign (47)

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Hi Guys:

I started a campaign in Adult Cams on March 22, 2016 and have received 16 conversions from approximately 3000 clicks at -93% ROI.
I have been doing step by step optimization based on data that I have been collecting and have seen slight improvements in conversions.
Added several banners and tested various angles on them. Identified what was working better and made adjustments etc.

Recently ( April 15, 2016) I increased daily ad spend from $30 to $100.
I would like to know if increasing my daily ad spend will ultimately increase my conversions to the point of + ROI or is it that the bits of information I have mentioned are signs that I should drop this campaign?
I need some direction on this as somehow strangely I believe that it can work but not really sure how to or if I am doing the right things or overlooking any particular data.

Any help on this will be greatly appreciated!

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I would love to help you, I have a ton of experience with adult, but you really didnt give me much to start with

I figured out this so far : its banner traffic, you're promoting some kind of free leadgen offer and its working really poor for you.

So first of all, if you are serious about cams you pretty much need to go for revshare or at least PPS. What kinda offer is this? Who is it from?
If you're buying from regular tubes, you better spend your time elsewhere, that traffic is not really gonna work.

There are networks where a higher daily budget will give you a small edge in combination with a high bid. But its not gonna make your campaigns turn from -90% to profit, not gonna happen under any circumstances.

Give me more info to work with, what kinda offer is it, what kinda traffic, what traffic network, how are you tracking it, maybe some screenshots ...

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Hi Brad123,

From your story, I see that something is definitely wrong. In my opinion, the problem is either your traffic source or your offer. It can even be both

Regarding optimization: when you’re losing money, you should never increase your expenditures. If the traffic doesn't work with your offer, it won’t become better with more volume. Quite the contrary: it’ll probably decrease your ROI even more. If your campaign is losing money, you can test different banners, decrease the bid, cut negative segments (countries, operators, OS etc.), or create a separate campaign for particular websites (White List campaign).

Anyway, your campaign has such a low conversion rate and low payouts that I can't possibly imagine it’s ever gonna be positive.

Actually, I don't think Webcam is the best vertical - maybe this is the main problem here. I suggest you start on the Adult VOD (Video-on-Demand) vertical. It’s based on a CPA model, so you get paid per subscription, and the payouts are lower – therefore, it's easier to optimize. From all of the adult verticals, this one has the best performance as well as the best ROI. In addition, there are really good adnetworks for this market which provide extensive statistics and tools for optimization as well as very specific targeting.

Exoclick is one of the best adnetworks of adult traffic. It's particularly good if you’re starting, as it provides many important features such as complete statistics, unique optimization and targeting tools (carrier, OS, device, browser etc).

Here’s a couple of tips in case you give Exo a try:

- Use the SmartCPM option, a smart bidding system that allows you to pay less than your bid if there is no competition right below you. Moreover, always start with capping = 1 so as not to spend too much on your tests.

- The best spots are 300x100, 300x50, and IM. Do not start with popunders or interstitial ad formats as they are much more expensive and provide less data.

Another good adnetwork of adult traffic is TrafficFactory. Even though it doesn’t have a lot of targeting features, it has a huge amount of traffic. Be careful, though, as you’ll find a lot of Desktop and Wifi traffic which is not very good for CPA offers. The best spots on TrafficFactory are Feature Phones and In-Player Square campaigns. These campaigns can bring you a lot of money if you find the right targeting

I advise you to start by launching some campaigns in countries with cheap traffic and a big enough volume. It’ll allow you to gather a lot of stats and optimize your campaigns without spending huge amounts of cash.

In order to make sure you have the best first experience possible, I’ll share my tips on where you should start:

Uruguay – Movistar – Android

Egypt – Mobinil – Android

These are segments that have a good performance, average volume, but no competition.

I hope this post was helpful. If you decide to try my suggestions let me know how it goes, so I’ll be able to give you further tips.

Good luck!

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Hey Matuloo:
I almost gave up on STM, and just decided to log back in and check if anyone had answered my post.
Ok so to answer your questions: This is a webcam offer, its from MaxBounty. What do you mean by "tubes" ? I am using adult traffic ( The traffic source i am using is TJ).
I am tracking with Adsbridge monitoring where conversions came from, country and times.
What specific screenshots do you need?
If your on skype could we also converse there? My skype email: bradley.bradyb@hotmail.com
Regards.

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Greetings Mobidea:

I thank you so much for your detailed insights and information. But the cam offer I am running we are not allowed to use mobile traffic.
The countries allowed for traffic excludes the ones that you have suggested. I am allowed to run traffic for US, Canada, UK, Australia, New Zealand and Singapore.
I had to keep US and UK as the other Geo's weren't converting.
I use banners 315 x 300 and 300 x 250 to promote using Traffic Junky.
The Network i am running the offer from is MaxBounty and the payout was $3.00 / lead but now $3.35 / lead after I requested a pay bump .
The offer converts when the target audience confirms subscription via email.
All suggestions and directions on the best way to proceed will be GREATLY appreciated man.
I am also on skype with email : bradley.bradyb@hotmail.com

Its much easier for me to readily respond and keep in touch on skype since I am not always at home or around a PC. Plus I find it too much of a hassle to interact on STM via my phone.

Kind Regards.

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And yes you are correct, Its banner traffic and I am promoting Lead gen.
Its much easier for me to readily respond and keep in touch on skype since I am not always at home or around a PC. Plus I find it too much of a hassle to interact on STM via my phone.

Kind Regards.

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Hello,

sorry to hear you wanted to give up on STM, but look at the date of my initial reply, it was written less than 20 hours after you posted the question, you must have missed it somehow.

I prefer to give guidance directly on STM actually, on skype its one-on-one and nobody else can benefit from the advice given. Moreover, skype support is not really doable for me, I would have to clone myself in order to be able to talk with everyone who shows the interest

Now back to the offer and suggestions :

As I guessed, this is a free PPL offer, the people I know that do cams are all pushing PPS or revshare, PPL is not the way to go. With cams its all about catching so called Whales - guys who fall in virtual love with some cam model and spend thousands to watch her - that's when revshare kicks in. If you are serious about cams, look at pussycash.com or awempire.com.

Tubes : all traffic sold by TJ is from tubes - so those free video sites, in other words adult clones of youTUBE - hence the name tube. For cams, Id recommend using members area traffic or escort traffic - some networks have this, search for it Tube site surfers are used to get their fix for free, its hard to make them pay so the CVR will be too high for it to work - in most cases.

Feel free to ask if you have more questions

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Hey there, no offense, but I think a large part of the blame lies with you.

I am not trying to call you out, and I hope you can take this feedback in the spirit in which it is intended, which is to help you.

A statement like "I almost gave up on STM" because you did not get a reply the same day to a question which, honestly, was very poorly formulated would really turn off anyone from wanting to help you.

People here are sharing valuable knowledge and experience without asking for anything in return because it is a community.

A key to achieving success in AM and in life is knowing how act and ask for help properly. You may want to read through this http://stmforum.com/forum/showthread...Your-Questions

In any case, you need to do a much better job asking for help if you want people to take the time to help you.

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Hi Cmdeal:
I appreciate you identifying a negative energy by me mentioning almost giving up. But to be honest, I didnt know exactly how else to have asked for help apart from what i had initially stated. But I am very greatful that Matuloo and Mobidea took the time out to reach out to me and asked me the relevant questions for them to help me out.
Please pardon my ignorance but is there any setting that allows for me to get an email notification that my post or thread was responded to?

Best Regards.

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Matuloo:

Thank you very much for explaining everything you just did to me. Well its because I am just catching on to the AM language and the more detailed technical side of things bit by bit so please pardon me.
I will check if the networks that I have joined have these offers or get into the ones that have them and will surely keep you posted.

Talk soon

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Zeno:

Thank you very much, much respect to you for taking the time out to assist!

Kind Regards

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Which would be a better option...PPS or Revshare?
I signed up with awempire.com so far, trying to learn how to work with them.
I also found members area traffic, they are Adnium Advertising....correct? But I can't seem to locate escort traffic. Can you provide a Url for them, please?

Regards

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Matuloo:

I just found escort traffic
Just starting to feel like things are coming together.

Thanks Much!

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Escort traffic isnt so easy to come by, you will have to search for it on your own, that's part of the game

To PPS or to Revshare ... that's the question : a simple formula to use, that has proven itself true time and time again - the better the traffic, the more sense it makes to go revshare. For the start, I would recommend trying PPS as you will get faster returns this way and if you decide to stick to it for a while, slowly increase the % of traffic that you send to PPS. In the long run, revshare should bring you more revenue with the right traffic, but it will take months for it to show the full potential.

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Thanks much Matuloo, i am working on it. I found Escort traffic bought a domain name and now getting my website setup to get it approved.

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Hi Matuloo:

Do you recommend driving traffic to the webcam offers with only one traffic source at a time or is it ok to run the offer on more than one traffic source at the same time?
Also what is the recommended ad spend to begin testing out a traffic source with an offer?

Regards.

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Test as many sources as you please, as long as you can track it properly and can afford it.

There is no recommended budget to work with, but the higher the payout per conversion the higher budget you need. So for example, if you're about to push $200 PPS offer, you simply cannot give up after $500 spent.

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Thank you very much. It all makes sense.

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Anything else ... just ask

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How do you know when to stop running a campaign that have not been giving much conversions?

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What you described is affiliates worst dream - running a campaign and not getting any conversions. With the PPS model its gonna be tough for sure, simply because the conversions pay so much. It requires some experience before you start messing with it, you need at least some proven creatives, so you're not throwing money out of the window.

If you wanna try it, I would recommend doing it like this :

1. first you need to build a converting funnel, you need creatives and possibly a landing page. You need to test this on an offer that shows you the free registrations - ask awempire if they use postbacks and show free registrations - didnt use them for a while so Im not sure about their current setup.
2. Once you have a set of creatives and LPs that you know are working good, switch to revshare and run for some more. Revshare will be lower $ initially but you will get more sales this way than with PPS, so it will be faster to get data. This is because on PPS there is some scrubbing going on with all PPS programs. Expect initial loss, you will need several months to get enough rebills.
3. Compare the numbers you see after some time and calculate how much you would make with PPS and decide what to push next.

Did you already do some spying to find out how competitors push cams?

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Awesome, sounds solid. But tell me what do you mean by : "This is because on PPS there is some scrubbing going on with all PPS programs." ?
I looked at a few cam sites and saw a few things they did. But i didn't do this with any spy tool as I am not able to afford it just now.

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Scrubbing means not giving you credit for all leads. Scrubbing can be both legitimate (double registrations, credit cards known to charge back or being fraudulent etc..), but also done in order to save some money for advertiser or increase their profits. PPS is more risky to them than revshare, that's why more scrubbing happens with the PPS model.

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Wow.....very informative. Thanks much Mat. So it seems then it would be good to focus on Revshare initially since it can yield more in the longterm and less risky for advertiser and Pubs.

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Out of the options you have with cams, revshare would be the best Id say, but make sure you will be able to see what produces the free registrations - you need to be able to figure out what creatives result in leads. Because in theory - the more people register, the bigger the chance to get some of them to use the CC. Obviously there is more to it, but you know what I mean.

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Hey Mat:
with regards to knowing what produces the free registration. Here is a response I got from my account manger in regards to that query: " At the moment we don't provide free registration stats and neither does our postback, but from time to time (e.g. once or twice a month) we can get you the logs from the database, but only in case of a Whitelabel/ CamTubeLabel (not for brand sites).

Whats your take on that response?

Also, I have now gone live with my own White Label website

Regards.

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These whitelabels are not really done with the mediabuyer in mind, its more about SEO or sending traffic from other sites you own. You can still try it and maybe it will work out for you, but without the postback it will be hard to optimize anything. Do they at least have a postback for paid members? If they do, you could try to use this for optimization, but the cost of if will go up dramatically.

The logs could help you a bit, but ask what is actually being logged. If they are able to log some parameters that would identify banners or placements, then it could be of some use, tho once in 2 weeks doesnt sound too hot

Its not gonna be easy, but sometimes thats a good thing

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Hey Mat:

I was informed by AM that they do have postback on sales but not for sign ups. So he provided me with some report parameters that I was told could be used to set up for postback on sales with my tracker software ( see attached ).

But my support correspondence for my tracking software said that there will be no difficulties with postback settings but the info given to me has no parameter macros and no parameters for different variables or click ID and that they would need those to set it all up.
So I got back in touch with my AM and his response was that he is also looking forward to a better tracking system but that Click ID is their sub affiliate variable.

Mat you had said that "
Do they at least have a postback for paid members? If they do, you could try to use this for optimization, but the cost of if will go up dramatically."
Can you please explain why would the cost go up dramatically?

I will find out exactly what is being logged by their system and make it known here.

Regards.

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The report parameters they gave you seem ok to me, you can define them as custom variables/tokens in your tracking - what do you use for tracking actually?. They (the aff network) need to tell you what variable you should use to pass them the clickid and you will just ad it to your link.

The cost will go up because obviously, it will require way more traffic to get a sale than it would to get a free registration. So you will need to wait longer to get any meaningful data, you will need more clicks on banners, more LP impressions etc ... the optimization process will require much more traffic and traffic costs money. Know what I mean?

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I am using Adsbridge for my tracking.
I will get back in touch with the aff network and request information for the variable to use to pass them the clickid.
Now, with regards to your explanation about why the cost for traffic would drastically increase. I totally get what you mean.....that was clear and makes complete sense.
I am now now wondering if this makes sense pursuing. While looking at all these challenges that I am already faced with in regards to no postback on free registrations to be able to do efficient optimization on what advertising efforts created those.
Plus only able to fund at a monthly budget of $500 for traffic makes me wonder if it makes sense to pursue based on the fact there will be NEED for way more traffic to make a sale than it would for free registrations.

What are your thoughts in regards to a situation like this?

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With only $500 budget per month, I would not do this, that's certainly not enough to push PPS or revshare cams. If you want to stay in adult, your best bet is dating or PIN submits in some cheap GEO - latin america or asia for example.

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How much would you say or consider to be ideal to start off with PPS or Revshare ?

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I would not start with less than $100 per day budget. And you have to be able to loose good part of it without getting into some serious problems. PPS and revshare are more suitable for advanced marketers. Keep in mind that with revshare, you will be running at initial loss, but the rebills should make up for it in the coming months, so you have to be able to fund at least 3 months of campaigns.

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Thank you very much for your expert advice on this. I really needed some direction.
So then pretty much as you had recommended earlier on that Its best if I push dating or pin submits in cheap Geos.
Would $500 monthly budget be able to fund such campaigns?
And can you please say what indicators do you use to know when or at what point to stop pushing a campaign that haven't been giving good conversions or + ROI?

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Sorry to hijack this thread with a question but figured it would help others who are thinking about promoting cams.

As far as cams are you using a landing page to promote them?

Or are you mainly direct linking or using pop-unders?

Thanks.

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Hi Jabong:
I had only direct link via banners which send traffic to merchant main landing page.

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Hello, somehow I missed this post, so let me address it again.

$500 per month really isnt any special budget for adult, but whatever you have available, we gotta work with that In order to be able to work with this, you will have to pick one medium sized site and target just that one, or use some other way of reducing the size of your audience - for example one site, one OS, one device, low cap ... you need to distribute the data evenly across the day and still keep decent volume.

I abandon a campaign when its not giving me conversions, it might take longer time to actually turn ROI, but if there are no conversions, or very little ... I need to either rework the funnel or choose another offer. Let's say I push an offer that pays $2.5, if I spend $15 or so and there are no conversions at all, there must be some problem somewhere. NOTE: I have proven creatives and LPs already for all verticals I work in, so I expect to see conversion sooner than I would in a new vertical.

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The big cam sponsors have several landers available, in some cases you can configure them to target proper niche, age group etc ... sending just to the main page isnt the bet way to do it with paid traffic. You need to target it and keep the flow all the way to the lander. In case you are using pops, I suggest using landers reduced in size and not full sized windows ... mentioning the bonus credits or free membership has always worked well too, at least when you're going for PPL.

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A million Thanks Mat, but I would really like to know though. How much would you say is at least ideally minimum to start running a campaign?

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There are people who start with a $300 budget, but I would say at least $50 per day, so it gives you some space to buy decent volume of data - $100 per day is an ideal starting budget in my opinion.

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This thread is golden!

@Matuloo where can i get as much information as i can on members area traffic and escort traffic?

Also, which kind of pre lander angles do you see that are working good for REV SHARE camsites campaigns?

Thanks

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Hello,

escort traffic is a bit hard to buy these days since one traffic network who was selling this went down, you will have to search for it on your own : google some escort sites and see whether they are running network banners and who serves them.

We have adnium reps posting on STM, they sell some members area traffic so you might want to check them out.

Camsites are usually sold through LPs with pre-recorded strip sequence. Another popular LP is used for popunder ads, its a list of available models that are "online" now I'm sure you have seen some of these, there is no need to reinvent the wheel. If you go to some large cam affiliate program like pussycash for example, they have LP generators that you can use for inspiration

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Thanks Matuloo.


I use banner traffic; So if i understand correctly, there is no need to add another stage to the funnel right? LP's that are provided by the advertiser should do the work?

How can i look them up in the forum?

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Like always, this is something you would need to test to be 100% certain. But when I was promoting cams personally, I used the configurable landers they provided. You can always try to model something similar on your own. These cam networks usually provide promo material too, some even had feeds that you could use to build custom websites from or build your own whitelabels. Check out the key players and check out what they have to offer, these companies usually have a lot of stuff to use.

Here you go : http://stmforum.com/forum/member.php?6071-grandslam

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Helpful as always... thanks Matuloo!

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You're welcome

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