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Fighter in mobile world! Please fight with me! (43)

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Hello,

I am in STM forum is about 3 weeks, and finally I start my campaign! I hope soon my campaign will be profitable with yours help. Fighters never give up, ok lets go!

Traffic source: popads
Vertical: sweeps - Win
Geo: Brazil

I start few days ago this offer, I am cutting it, and now have: 1 Landing page, mobile carrier CLARO, and here is result:


1. Can this campaign do profitable?
2. Need something to cut, or early, need to wait more?
3. Your recommends.

Cheers,
Sadlave

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Hello,

I only see less than 1000 pops in the stats, thats too early to do anything, you cant cut nothing just yet. However, it looks like you are in small profit which is good, maybe you've hit something good here.

You say this was running for a few days, why is the volume so low? Brazil is a huge GEO, popads has enough volume for it. You need to increase the traffic and then look at what is possible to optimize. Right now its too soon to do anything.

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Hello, sunday result was:

+30% of course little traffic.

Yesterday: -70% :

This offer running on 1 LP and 1 mobile operator:

Here is some data:
OS:


Browser:


Questions:
1. It is possible to do this campaign profitable? or forget this campaign? Thanks.

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You still have too little data to draw decisive conclusions. Spend 50 to 100 dollars more and then look at the numbers. Cut unprofitable placements, scale your profitable placements, and keep on testing new banners/landers on the profitable placements. Apart from popads, I would try adcash and propeller. They have more traffic.

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Hi sadlave - got your PM. Thanks for inviting me to your follow-along.

First of all, I need more information from you before I could make suggestions:

1)Which OSs and mobile carriers does your offer accept?

2)How many landing pages have you tested before cutting down to one?

3)What's your bid? How many bids have you tested?

4)What are your campaign targeting options? i.e. Which OSs and carriers?

Also - please make sure you are tracking the popads data [ISPID] in your tracker.


It would be good to cast a wider net if possible. I did a quick check on popads' traffic estimator - by targeting just Claro, even at top bid you'd only get 7k impressions/day. That would still make it a good camp for you to learn with, but let's see if we can target wider. I'll give you more suggestions about that after you've answered my questions.

I would NOT suggest doing that. Brazil has a lot of cheap traffic, plus the offer payout is only 0.80. You can judge whether or not the campaign has potential way before that, and there is a lot of optimization you can do along the way. Running 50-100 dollars before looking at stats would be wasting money unnecessarily.



Amy

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Hello, @Amy, I do this campaign through new and here is my stats:

Create 3 campaigns, low, medium, height bids. Low bid = 0.00031, medium bid = 0.00085, height = 0.003.



Here is my low bid campaign, landers stats:


And here is my device stats:


1) Accepted all carriers and all OSS.


What to next? cut landers 2,3,4? Go to another traffic source and send more traffic? or do higher bid? but you see in my stats, that the bid higher do not conversions.. Thanks.

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@sadlave this looks promising I would say !

I would probably continue gathering more data, and probably try to build a new version of your winning LP with a slight modification.

Once you have a bit more data and it continues to look similar (e.g. 1 LP stays a lot better than the others) then I would ditch all underperforming LPs and run the winning one versus the "modified winning one" you would have created.

Did you blacklist anything ? I guess not, right ?

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I havent done any blacklisting if you mean cutting

Waiting @vortex reply

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Let me chime in for a bit. Its tempting to cut all thats under-performing and running just LP1 but dont do it

Lets start with cutting the worst things.

So cut Tablet first, thats obviously just draining the funds. Pause medium and high bids for now and keep running the low bid campaign.

Cut LPs 2 and 4, you could also cut 3 but one more lead and its the same as 5 and 6 so Id let them run for some more. Since you wont be running tablets anymore, the performance might change.

Try to run this for about the same amount of traffic and post the results again.

While waiting for more data, analyze the data of the medium and high bids campaigns and try to figure out why it performed so poorly - was it different sources than in the low bid campaign? Was it more tablets? Try to figure out what was different so you can act once you have the winning LP from the low bid campaign, as the goal will be to scale it with the help of higher bids.

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Hello, here is my stats of course I get in old offer not much traffic:



Old offer ROI -73% I cut tablets, and cut 2,5 LPs. Need to wait to more traffic? Bid price now is 0.00031 and I will get only 2k impressions.

And another question I start new offer antivirus, and here you see the results, what to do in this situation? delete this offer and take another? or try to send more traffic? Thanks.

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Im a bit confused here, so the first line is the offer that looked promising, you have cut tablet and the 2,5 LPs and now it doesnt really work? You mentioned that you will get 2k impressions now but I see almost 10k there. I also see the CTR is half of what it was before, from 16% to 8%, why is that? Please explain it more detailed, I dont want to give you advice based on bad understanding.

The 2nd and 3rd line are new offers you are trying, right? Doesnt relally look promising as its now - how many LPs are there, give me more info please.

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Here is today my result for the first offer: I cut 2,5 LPs, and Tablet, of course it is very low traffic now... For low bid I only get 2k impressions per day.



New offer:
Antivirus is now my new offer, I do 5 LPS. and spend $15 for low, and $15 for medium bids. It means $30 per two and get only 3 conversions.

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OK, you really need to wait some more with the campaign after the optimizations. The volume looks pretty poor, but at this stage you're just testing a funnel. If it works, you can try to scale it with a higher bid or in a different source.

The antivirus offers doesnt look good, or the creatives are not good, hard to say where the problem is. I wouldnt continue with it as it is tho, either try a different offer or use different creatives.

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I have the same issue. Had -20% ROI. Cut 1 lander that did not have any conversions, made two variations of the best of the two landers and -80% ROI the next day.

I guess thats just affiliate marketing.

But for sadlave, just need to find more traffic. With this much traffic not much to analyze. :/

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The low amount of traffic can really be a problem, the leads can be totally random, the more traffic you push, the more stable it becomes. Its the sad truth about AM and so hard to deal with when youre just starting out

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Hello, here is my yesterday and today results:



Here is Landing pages results low bid campaign from the start:


Connection type:


Mobile carrier:


Browser:

I try propelers traffic source, not good receive 2 conversions. Create new campaign with my 1 landing page "winner" to see how it works -30% ROI ir particulary the same results, where is campaign with 4 LPs.

What to do next? send traffic for few days to collect more data? Thanks.

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Here's what I would suggest:

-First of all, I agree with matuloo that your new offer doesn't look promising. Also, with BR being such a big geo, and the promise it's already showing, I would highly recommend that you focus on JUST this campaign - you could be making a lot of money from just this camp if you test more and then scale.

-For your low-bid camp, could you please drill down into the data and post the following screenshots:

1)OS -> landers (just the major OSs giving you the most impressions)
2)Mobile carriers -> landers (just the top few carriers with the most impressions)
3)OS -> Mobile Carriers -> landers (just the major OSs giving you the most impressions)
4)ISPID -> landers (just the top few ISPIDs with the most impressions)
5)OS -> ISPID -> landers (just the major OSs giving you the most impressions)
6)ISPID -> Mobile Carriers (just the top few ISPIDs with the most impressions)

Mainly I want to see a)where most of your traffic is coming from, and b)which traffic segments are converting the best. Because BR is such a big geo, you could be making good money by optimizing for one of the bigger traffic segments - e.g. one OS or mobile carrier. Then we can create a better campaign strategy.


Amy

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1) Os Landers:




2) Mobile carriers:


3) Os mobile carrier:


4) ISP


5)



6)


And here is WEBSITE ID:


Need to cut this where cost over $3 but 0 conversions?

I dont know if I good understand what data need, but I hope it is ok, Thanks Amy!

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The data is spread across a lot of variables, and you would need some more to be able to make qualified decisions but there is always something you can do. In cases like this, you need to start by cutting the worst options.

I would personally pick just landers 1,3,6 and continue with those, its almost clear that lander 1 will be the winner, but dont want to tell you to use just that one as its not enough leads yet. To be honest tho, based on the data you posted so far, I would probably do a test and push just LP1 for a while to see faster if it holds the trend.

You could also cut the worst sources, the one that spent $3 and didnt make a single lead will probably not work even with the best LP. But dont cut too wildly now, if you decide to run just the best LP and if it holds the same performance, the numbers might change.

Right now it really looks like you have to sort out the LPs first.

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Thanks for all the screenshots! However, you forgot to expand most of them. For example for Mobile Carriers -> Landers you only showed the mobile carrier stats without "opening up" lander stats.

Also - for Popads, ISPID data is very important. This is different from the ISP stats provided by your tracker. You need to have added the [ISPID] token to your tracker, in your popads settings, in order for this parameter to be tracked. I would also like to see this data.

If you could take more screenshots and post them, I'll give more detailed advice. For now though, based on what I'm seeing, both IOS and Android are promising with at least 1 green lander each, and the green landers are doing good ROI. So things are looking very promising.

Regarding cutting landers: For the major OSs (Android and IOS) the lander trends seem to be similar for both OSs, i.e. landers 1& 3 in the lead, 5 & 6 in the middle, 4 & 2 doing the worst. I would like to verify this for the major carriers/ISPIDs after you post mores screenshots. Basically, when lander trends look very different across major traffic segments, I would suggest testing landers for each segment separately. For example, if the best-performing lander for one OS is the worst-performing lander for another OS, then it may be good to test and cut landers separately for each OS.

What you can do now: Use the split-test calculator to evaluate the OVERALL lander stats (for the entire campaign - across all OSs/carriers/browsers etc. etc.) to see if any landers have reached significance for cutting. Then, check EVERY major traffic segment to make sure the landers you want to cut are NOT good performers. (Major traffic segments are OSs/carriers etc. that are responsible for large portions of your traffic.) If this is the case, then cut them.

In other words, before cutting anything, check all major traffic segments to verify that the cut will not result in negative impact on ROI for each segment.



Amy

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Hello, and thanks for your comments, I would like to share my yesterday results: I test more 2 campaigns, to collect more data


results are without click loss, I spend more when $14 each campaing.

1) Os landers low campaign all week stats:


2) carrier > lander:


3) mobile



Stats from campaign where is only 1 landing page "Winner":

1) carrier:


2) OS:


Hello, Amy thanks for your comment it is awesome info! sorry but I dont understand this ISPID where I can find and how I can do it.


In 10 line write [ISPID] and that's it?

Happy Easter!!!!

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Very nice thanks for the screenshots!

Yes you should add [ISPID] to the 10th slot. That's one of the most important tokens on popads - besides [WEBSITEID].

So it looks like your major traffic segments are Android and IOS, Wifi and Claro and TIM. No conversions for TIM yet, but for all other major segments, lander 1 is the best-performing lander. A consistent trend like this is always nice to see - because it makes the decision so clear-cut (if you'll excuse the pun).

So I would recommend cutting all other landers and just running lander 1. Add that ISPID token and start collecting some data. We may be able to do something with that data later.

Next you have 2 choices:

1)Look for at least 2-3 more offers and test them (make sure they allow wifi because that's where the majority of your traffic is from and you're already close to breaking even). And THEN cut everything else (placements etc.) that don't meet your target ROI (e.g. 30%-50%+)

2)Just start cutting placements etc. now - because it looks like your lander 1 is already in profit. Although, if you can find a better-converting offer first, it will make your ROI higher so that you won't have to cut as many placements. Improving your funnel further will also make your scaling efforts more rewarding, i.e. you'll be able to make more traffic sources convert.


When you have data for ISPID please post screenshots. And yes - Happy Easter to you as well!



Amy

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Hello, here is my yesterday results:


Landers:


Today I will start with ISPID and tomorrow I will post results and I think I will run only 1 campaign with 1 LP

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Hi Sadlave,


I see you’ve picked Brazil, one of the toughest markets out there.

Here’s my answers to your three questions:

1.Can this campaign be profitable: In my opinion, there’s not enough data to reach a conclusion. I see that some targets are positive even though you've invested a low amount of money. What I mean by this is that you may have been lucky to have those conversions. Brazil is a huge market which means you have to not only invest more but be more specific in your investment.

2.Need to wait more? Yes, you have to wait more.

3.Your recommendations: Try lowering the amount of lander. If you can’t increase the traffic you should lower the amount of lander in test. Only if you increase your traffic volumes will it be possible for you to keep testing the same amount of lander.


Hope this helped!

Cheers!

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Hello, here is my yesterday results.. not good:

All time this campaign ROI is about -25% with over when 50 conversions:

And maybe need smth cut from here?:


I am waiting more suggesting, Thanks.

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Yes you can certainly only target sites with a certain quality level and up. Just remember to test them again later when you have a better offer+lander.

There are so many ways to optimize a campaign - you can focus on improving the funnel (offer+lander) to make more of the traffic profitable and THEN cut stuff that doesn't give you good ROI. Or you could just identify the best-converting traffic and use that to optimize your funnel and THEN retest the stuff you cut out from before. Stuff like site site quality and placements - we can make the assumption that offer and lander performance will not be different for these (as long as we keep adult and mainstream separate), so you can choose to cut first and retest them afterwards.

On the other hand, for something like OS/carrier, offers and landers CAN perform differently across different OSs and carriers. In that case, it may not be a good idea to e.g. use Android to test offers and landers, then test your best offer+lander on IOS and expect the same performance.

Just do what makes sense to you and go from there.



Amy

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Thanks Amy here is yesterday results:

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Hello, Yesterday I start my new campaign and results was really not bad I think that my LP1 will be a really winner and I do a profit:


Today is a terrible results:


One day everything is good and you are near profit, but the next day results is total shit. Complete oposite.. Thanks for answers.

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Yes - the results will be different every day. Some days of the week have worse conversion rates compared to other days.

Another possible reason is you may have gotten outbid. Run this for another day, and if things don't improve, try increasing your bid.

There may also be delays in the conversions. Sometimes visitors don't complete the action until later. Also, sometimes there are delays in affiliate networks posting conversions back to your tracker.

Don't be discouraged by fluctuations. As long as you're using the split-test calculator to cut landers, you will be improving your funnel.

For example, a bad funnel may fluctuate between -80% and -30% ROI, and a better funnel may fluctuate between -10 and +50% ROI. As long as you're rotating landing pages at the same time, and cutting them using the split-test calculator, your funnel will get better, no matter how the conversion rate may fluctuate.

Actually - based on your first screenshot - your lander 1 is already the winner! You can just pause all other landers and run just lander 1 to see what ROI you get, then make your next decision.

Are you still running in Brazil? I think you've tested enough landers. It would be a good idea to test offers next.



Amy

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Hello, I cut all LPs and left only my "winner" but results is terrible:



I dont understand some times how it can be?

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Sadlave could you compare your placement stats (i.e. drill down to [WEBSITEID] in tracker stats), for the day when you got lots of conversion, and the day you got terrible results? For the good day, check which placements you were getting conversions from, the check the bad day and look for the same placements to see if you got the same amounts of traffic from them. If you're getting traffic from different placements, that means you probably got outbid so the good traffic went to your competition.

Have you tried increasing your bid? Traffic quality may improve!

I know you probably have doubts about cutting the other landers and only running your "winner" lander. If it would make you feel better, you could retest the other landers again - it only took you around $15 ad spend to find the winner the last time so it shouldn't be too expensive to retest. But please try increasing your bid first to see whether that would fix the problem.



Amy

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Now you could do the most obvious - test another offer or the same from another network I see you're only sending to clickdealer.

Seems like only 2 carriers are working too, so focus on those.

LPs - its good to run multiple, but you dont really need 6 of them. 1 seems to be out, but the rest is not very clear yet, you will need a bit more data here.

Once you narrow it down to like 2-3 best landers, focus on cutting sources that are working bad. If you wanna cut something now, cut just the WORST - the bad carriers and poorer LPs are responsible for lower results on some and it can change.

Youre very close, keep going!

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You already got great tips from matuloo - here are mine:

-I would pause all carriers right now except the first two.

-Keep cutting landers. Once you're down to your winning lander (or more than one if they're all performing the same), start a separate campaign so you're targeting the 2 carriers separately. Test bids for each carrier separately to find the most profitable one.

-Ask your AMs for the best offers for those 2 carriers specifically. I'm guessing one of them is wifi. The other one looks like it's a mobile carrier - ask your AMs for offers for that SPECIFIC carrier. Carrier-billing offers, especially one-click offers, can convert extremely well.

-It looks like a couple other carriers are also getting good traffic volume but aren't converting very well on your current offer. Again, you can ask your AMs for offers that are made for those specific carriers and test them. Carrier traffic can convert very well for the right offers!

-Cutting placements is important of course. However, try not to cut too many placements before you've tested enough offers. You're already in green for those carriers. By testing more offers to improve your funnel, you can make as much of the traffic profitable as you can, before cutting out what really doesn't convert.


Congrats! Looking forward to seeing more and more green!



Amy

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Hello,
here is my results:


I try few new offers, but no one better when mine works. Lander 5 is already cut.

My question why now is low traffic, every day is low and low I increased bid from 0.005 to 0.0055-0.006... maybe somebody can explain? Thanks and waiting suggestions.

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Hello, cut few landers and increase bids and here is results:

Spend: 92$
Revenue: 103.4$
Profit: 11.4$ Jeeeeee!

Landers:


I think I need now to collect more data to start cutting some placements

Any suggestions? Thanks!

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Awesome job hitting the green!

Would recommend optimizing your funnel more before cutting placements unless they are absolutely horrible (0% CTR after 300 visits or whatever seems reasonable for your offer/geo).

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Nice to see you in green!

Ysekse is right - thou its absolutely crucial to cut poor placements, don't overdo this - if you see plenty of placements floating around the break-even point or even in mild loss, a change in the funnel might bring them into profit. If you cut too many placements, you will kill your volume.

You can also try to play with bids and cap now, to see if it helps any.

Keep up the good work.

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Congrats on the green! Here's to much more!

200% in agreement with what ysekse and matuloo said about improving your funnel: Test more offers first, THEN cut.

After another round of offer-testing, if you find a better offer, you may be ready to scale out to other networks!

Also - you've already seen the power of bidding high! What you can do now is duplicate your camp 2 times (or more) and set higher bids for them. Run them all at the same time for a day or so to see which one gives you the best ROI, and just pause the other ones and run that one. REMEMBER to set a low daily budget and overall campaign budget when bidding high! And don't be afraid to test max bid.

Looking forward to seeing further progress - and congrats again! All the hard work is starting to pay off!


Amy

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Hello, I calculate my results from start:
March:
cost - $324.5
revenue - $165.65
ROI - -49%

April:
cost - $822
revenue - $570
Roi - -30.5%

This month my goal is to have break even!

Here is results: I try few similar offers but my is better:


I have 2 landers, they doing very similar .

Browsers:


quality:


I think I have a low data... I increase bid price, but i got about 15 converions in day. Any suggestions? Thanks.

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Ask the network how much volume they have in your GEO of interest, if there is way more of it, you can do some steps to get it

1. duplicate the campaign and run it at different bid
2. play with the cap and increase it
3. bidding higher should help too

I suppose you have cut some of the placements already. Since you have a better funnel now, you might consider un-blocking some placements that were close to breakeven, with the better funnel, they could back out now.

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My campaign still doing a small positive ROI.

I have a question about aggressive landers.

I choose offer and all I see on spy tools is very aggressive landers that advertiser will never approve. How is it possible to compete with non aggressive antivirus landers with people who are obviously cloaking. Same landers with less aggressive text will not work 100%. What should I do? How to look for good and compliant landers that can compete with cloaked landers?

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You need to come up with them, or cloak them. Pick your path, is it gonna be the dark side or not?

If you dont want to cloak, you need to figure out how to reword the un-compliant angle and reach the same result. Im facing the same problem right now on go2mobi for example. I have a LP that works wonders but they rejected it, and since I dont like to cloak, I am testing variations for the 5th day by now, still didnt find the right wording. But right now Im sitting at 70% of what I need, so Im stopping loosing money, its doable.

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Have you drilled down into OS data?

Judging by the quality screenshot, it looks like quality 8+ sites are in profit. Since you're running in Brazil (you ARE still running in Brazil aren't you?), which has a ton of traffic on popads, you can just target quality 8+ sites for now, and test higher bids to get more traffic - and you may just get better conversion rates too.

You know the drill about testing different bids so I won't repeat myself here.

When you start testing offers and landers again to improve your funnel further, feel free to open up the other "quality levels" to get more traffic to speed up your testing. You could even just leave your original camp alone (if you decide to just target 8+ sites with that), and start a new camp targeting all quality levels and use that camp to test offers and landers, while the original camp will be your "profits" camp.



In that case it would be good to keep both of them running to delay ad burnout.

However, when you do decide to start testing landers again, it would be wise to just use one of these landers as the control, while testing other landers. That would give more impressions to the new landers.



You basically have these choices:
-Run offers that don't allow aggressive, cloak and run aggressively, and hope you don't get caught.
-Run offers that allow aggressive - no need to cloak and no risk of getting caught.

I chose the second path early on - because my heart isn't strong enough to run non-compliant.

The only drawback of the second choice is your choice of offers will be limited. It would really depend on what kind of offers you're running and how much additional benefit you can get from running aggressive. e.g. For antivirus, it would be very difficult to profit without using aggressive tactics (unless you're running big brand names like Norton for example, and on sources like facebook and not on pop). And if you go really aggressive, you can potentially boost conversion rates by a lot. So for antivirus I would definitely choose to run aggressive. On the other hand if you're running sweeps, the difference in conversion rates between saying "you've won" and "you could win" may not be all that big (depending on geo etc.), in which case offers that don't allow aggressive would be worth testing as well, using compliant landers.




Another suggestion: Test more offers! I know you've just finished testing a few offers, but testing offers is one of the ways to achieve major ROI boosts for your camps. There are tons of offers for BR. Arguably, testing offers is more important than testing landers (assuming you already have a lander that works at least semi-well).




Amy

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