You either sell, or you’re being sold. Your choice… (26)
Sales is everything. No question about it, if I can *really* learn how to sell, I will become richer than my wildest dreams. So although I’d love to make $10m right off the bat (who wouldn’t?), my primary aim is to understand what works and why and to develop systems that allow profitable campaigns to be churned out consistently.
*Quick background*: Late last Summer, I started my AM career, as most newbies do, in the wonderful world of Adult – I never looked at porn the same way again: “You mean to tell me people are making MILLIONS off these annoying ads that keep popping up when I’m trying to do my thing?!” The journey had begun. After a couple of months of banner/lander creation and consistently clearing the history from my laptop (telling friends/family you’ve visited hundreds of porn pages for “work” tends to raise a few eyebrows, go figure) I finally discovered the beauty of affiliate marketing…
*The right offer + the right banner + the right lander + the right traffic source= $$$*
So beautiful in its simplicity, yet like most “simple” things, incredibly difficult to execute. I built a funnel generating $XX per day and thought I was on my way “All I need to do now is scale to Tier 1 geos and I’ll be a millionaire by the end of the month!” No chance. The big boys ate my campaigns for breakfast in the Tier 1 Geos. Competition was fierce and I just couldn’t scale profitably, despite my best efforts.
After watching my campaigns slowly die, I decided to switch vertical. I wanted something with huge volume and so Mobile seemed an obvious choice. I did a brief stint with PPV sweeps but ironically found myself overwhelmed with all of the data and suddenly found myself missing the one placement at a time approach of Adult!
Anyway, as I realise I’m falling into the trap of jumping from vertical to vertical searching for that ever-elusive ‘high volume, low competition’ vertical, I’ve decided to just pick something and stick with it (there’s plenty of money to be made in every vertical). So I’ve decided to focus on Mobile display running App installs.
With the back story over, let’s get on with it. New vertical, new beginnings. Hoping to get some love from the STM community as I attempt to crack mobile! Will try to be as transparent as possible in order to learn as much as possible; if my brief encounter with Mobile sweeps taught me anything, it’s that the learning curve in mobile is very steep!
Traffic source: Go2Mobi
Bid Type: Auto
Tracker: CPV
Vertical: App installs (Anti-virus)
Offer payout: $0.3
Placement type: App and site
Geo: Belgium
TL;DR – just another affiliate trying to become the next Mr Green
DAY ONE
Launched my first test last night – results not encouraging
I went with 2 angles, three ads for each; from spying it seemed the most common ads occupied the moral grey area suggesting the user already had a virus and they need the offer to remove it e.g. the classic "You have a virus, remove now before hackers kidnap you and your family!"
I would think advertising like this is a quick way to get booted off of an offer (though they could be cloaking), but it was by far the most popular angle so seemed a logical place to start, at least just to test whether the offer converts or not.
I decided to direct link – I actually quite liked the look of the Google Play landing page for the offer and felt that it shouldn’t need much pre-selling given how low the payout is, I was wrong.
Bids: 78,000
Wins: 44,697
Clicks: 488
Average CTR: 1.09%
Conversions: *2*
Spend: $21.78
Revenue: $0.3
ROI: -99%
Pretty surprised by this, the offer was highly recommended by my affiliate manager/is one of the best on the network and given such a low payout I’d expect way more conversions than that. The fact it got a couple of conversions suggests it’s setup OK on the technology end so the only thing I can conclude is that my ads aren't congruent with the Google Play offer page and/or I need to add some landing pages into the mix.
The joys of a new vertical, I have no idea what good metrics look like but I’d imagine a 1.09% CTR isn’t anything to write home about. That being said, running some quick maths, if 15% of clickers had converted (instead of the actual 0.2%!) I’d be breaking even. I’m not sure if 15% is overly ambitious for these kind of offers but I’m sure 0.2% can’t be the norm so I’m going to keep running with this offer.
Side note: CPV is actually pretty useless for tracking these kind of campaigns as the effective CPC differs from placement to placement.
Next steps
• Rip and test some landing pages
• Try new banner creatives to see if there's any uplift to CTR
We go again…
DAY TWO
Average CTR: 1.04%
Conversions: 6
Spend: 18.66
Revenue: 1.92
ROI: -90%
So I added some new ads, slightly different angles with new designs, and also threw a couple of landers into the mix. I’ve come to the conclusion that everyone running AV must be cloaking as from spying I found maybe two ‘compliant’ landers out of about 50. I decided to run one compliant lander and one non-compliant as a test. Surprise, surprise the non-compliant lander produced all of the conversions.
I don’t think running ads like this is a particularly sustainable business strategy given the campaign will likely get canned at some point; time to go back to the drawing board and come up with some completely fresh LP and banner ideas, can’t get ahead following the herd completely anyway!
Next steps
• Find some cheaper traffic sources
• Overhaul campaign with fresh banners and LPs
hello there,
we were previously also in the adult market, and realized that for some reason we were unable to hit the profits we wanted. further research showed that the potential everywhere else was greater.
we are now exploring mobile apps on pop and display traffic. do you think we chat more on skype?
we managed to get some small profitable campaigns going on and testing out more campaigns
please add xavierfok
Yeah, antivirus is fairly played out at this point. People are still making money off it, but it's not a particularly friendly niche for a new affiliate.
Test lots of offers - you'll find something that sticks.
Im sorry man, you will not make app installs work in a white-hat way, those days are over. I mean, not with the offers that are available in aff networks and not with the competition in the mobile traffic networks.
Of course there is still mad money spent on app installs, but for that to work you need an exclusive app that not everyone is promoting or a special relationship with some large developer, and you dont have either of that Im afraid.
Or you need to be a cloacking ninja and scare the shit of the surfers, to make them download "the only new app" thats gonna save their phone from the latest virus to destroy their private porn collection 
You seriously need to switch vertical once more, before you dive too much into it. BTW : you started with adult, do you realize there is also mobile adult that you could test? I know adult is veeeery competitive, Im running there too and its getting more and more cut-throat.
PIN submits and sweeps are a popular choice amongst new people these days, I would suggest to look at it, it should be way easier than app installs.
Good luck.
Originally Posted by matuloo
Of course there is still mad money spent on app installs, but for that to work you need an exclusive app that not everyone is promoting or a special relationship with some large developer, and you dont have either of that Im afraid.
Or you need to be a cloacking ninja and scare the shit of the surfers, to make them download "the only new app" thats gonna save their phone from the latest virus to destroy their private porn collection
You seriously need to switch vertical once more, before you dive too much into it. BTW : you started with adult, do you realize there is also mobile adult that you could test? I know adult is veeeery competitive, Im running there too and its getting more and more cut-throat.
PIN submits and sweeps are a popular choice amongst new people these days, I would suggest to look at it, it should be way easier than app installs.
Good luck.
Thanks for the advice on AV; I suspected as much but didn't want to hop vertical again.haha. I suppose it can't be helped, back to the drawing board...
Originally Posted by mass_marketer
This follow along is not dead!
So since my last post, after doing a bit of research, particularly TBranley’s posts, I’ve decided to change vertical completely and move into Pay Per call as it seems like it’s a vertical with huge growth potential and a significant opportunity to develop exclusive offers. Also seems like it can be run white hat.
So this is what I’ve done since then:
• Read through IAmAtilla’s Monster case study on Pay Per Call
• Applied to networks known to have a range of PPCall offers: RingPartner (accepted), Neverblue (still waiting to hear back), Mundo Media
• Set up an AdWords account
• Set up a campaign on Adwords using IAmAtilla’s case study as a guide
First impressions: Adwords is a completely different beast to the other traffic sources I’ve used! Seems like if you don't get the keyword generation and selection just right then you're toast!
Here’s the state of play at the moment, with the current crop of keywords, I need to bid at least $1.50 per click for the ads to be seen. This doesn’t really work given the offer Payout is only $3!
Next steps:
• Do further research into how to get the most out of AdWords/how to generate large lists of keywords
• Edit campaign to incorporate new key words and collect data
Don't forget to hit up CallTactics too.
I would call it a day on this campaign. The ROI is too low. Try out Test Aankoop/Test Achats in Belgium, great campaign.
Yeah the anti-virus has been killed, moved on to PPCall
First conversion!
Stats over past 2 days (Saturday and Sunday, running 12 hours a day)
Impressions: 66
Clicks: 1
Conversions: 1
CTR: 1.65%
Avg. CPC: $1.87
Avg position: 3.5
Spend: $1.87
Revenue: $3
ROI: +60%
Though it’s always nice to be in the green, the flow of impressions is way too slow, especially given that you would imagine the weekends to be the busiest days – I’m running about 3,500 key words. I think I have the following options to improve volumes
a) Add more keywords – easier said than done. Action – research keyword generation
b) Increase CPC – not a viable option, CPC is already too high and even at this level I would need what is likely an unrealistic conversion rate to be profitable
c) I recall reading somewhere that mobile adjusted ads have more volume. Action: Replicate the existing campaign as mobile adjusted. Create a Lander based on the principles on a lander TBranley previously posted adapted for the vertical I'm running 
Another point is that there’s a discrepancy between the stats – Google says I only have 1 click while the ad network says I have 6 calls (1 paid), not sure what’s going on here. Anyone else experienced this?
If any more experienced PPCallers have any advice on how can I ramp up volumes, please pipe up.
Hey if you're on the search engines, you NEED LongTail Pro.
OVERNIGHT, I turned my campaign from ~.08% ctr to ~%4.5 ctr. Conversions and cheaper clicks followed. And that was within the first week or so of learning the system. You'll find the specific keywords that you can phrase / EM of ONLY what people are searching for.
game changer.
If you're on BHW you can find a link for it and get the plat version for cheap.
Also, seperate your CTA's from your backgrounds. Make it stand out I'm straining to read it.
Originally Posted by rakoff
As for the discrepancy between clicks and calls - you have the number written on the LP, maybe someone just wrote it down and called it later on, instead of clicking on the "call now"?
29 Feb 2016
Decided to ring the promo number today to get a feel for what the prospects are treated to when they call. The results were interesting indeed…
At the start of each call you’re asked to enter your zip code and then you’re directed to a local salesman.
Call 1: Post entering my zip code I was directed to a line which was busy, which subsequently went dead after a few seconds
Call 2: Directed to a line which rung for about 30 seconds before directing me to voicemail
Call 3: Third time’s the charm; good news – I managed to get through to a sales rep, bad news – they didn’t cover the subsector I was promoting (the offer allegedly caters to a few different subsectors, this provider only catered to one)
Call 4: The line went dead post me entering a zip code
Call 5: FINALLY got through to a rep and gathered some useful intel to aid my adverts
Summary: The fact it took me five attempts to actually have a call which would have a chance of converting is quite alarming, to the point I’m considering changing offer. 4 out of 5 lost calls seems rather high to me – that’s 80% of clicks essentially wasted. That being said, 5 calls is hardly a representative sample…but now when my calls don’t convert that will be in the back of my head. Am I overreacting? Is this kind of slippage normal in PPCall?
It’s also worrying that the offer clearly states it promotes a few sub-sectors, yet a prospect could click on my ad for subsector A and be directed to a provider which only caters to subsector B – more wasted clicks!
I reckon I’ll need to start listening to the calls before making any decisions on whether to change offer or not.
In other news, I left yesterdays’ campaign running and these were the results
Impressions: 57
Clicks: 0
Conversions: 0
CTR: 0%
Avg. CPC: $0
Avg position: 4
Spend: $0
Revenue: $0
ROI: 0%
Can’t see this picking up until I expand my keywords so won’t post for a couple of days until I’ve made some progress on that front.
Originally Posted by matuloo
As for the discrepancy between clicks and calls - you have the number written on the LP, maybe someone just wrote it down and called it later on, instead of clicking on the "call now"?
I'm currently working through an AdWords guide but haven't finished it yet. Is Quality score really that important for Pay Per call Ads? IAmAtilla said this in his guide: "Since Google works on Quality Score, here's a tip. When you make your lander, make it really crappy, so the QS will be very low and you won't get much web traffic. We don't want any web traffic in fact, we want all of the traffic to come on our mobile call extensions."
Hi there. I come from a SEO background and tried all kinds of keyword tools. Here's a free quick and dirty way of finding new keywords.
Type in your seed keyword(s) in the sites below:
http://keywordshitter.com
http://ubersuggest.org
Copy and paste your newly generated keywords into AdWords to check their search volumes.
Originally Posted by mass_marketer
Not sure what QS he had in mind, but Im talking about QS that is calculated from clicks to your ads. The higher the score, the cheaper the clicks - to put it in a really simple way. Your lander wont influence how much people click on your ads. QS is "everything" in google adwords, you need to have it high.
This campaign isn't dead yet! Spent the past month trying a number of low payout campaigns which all produced pretty weak volumes. So have now switched to a higher payout offer which should allow a higher bid and hopefully a more meaningful number of impressions.
Offer payout: $10
Impressions: 349
Calls: 21
Conversions: 1
Spend: $36
Revenue: $10
ROI: -72%
Conversion stats are pretty awful but this is the most daily impressions I’ve received in a month, so at least this campaign is moving in the right direction!
The flipside is that I suspect that the keywords generating the majority of the impressions aren’t actually that relevant to the offer, hence the low conversion rate. The other possibility is that the ads aren’t clear enough.
Looking at the call records, the majority of calls last less than 30 seconds i.e. they don’t even make it past the IVR, which suggests these are bad leads…
My plan of action is to add two more ads which clearly state what will be offered when one clicks on the ad.
Will leave the campaign to run for one more day, assess the data and start cutting keywords as appropriate (will likely need to add some keywords too).
Also, while thinking about how to ramp this campaign up, I came across an old post by cmdeal:
"Try spending half a day coming up with as many ideas as you can. Really force yourself, and don't limit yourself at all.
For example, when you say " I'm trying to add more keywords and creating more campaign." you are already limiting yourself in at least three ways.
In fact force yourself to come up with 25 ways in which you can potentially scale your activities. (The first 4-5 ideas will be easy to come up with, then it will start getting really hard). You can then post the ideas here. Of the ideas 80% will be crap. 15% will be decent, and 5% will be definitely worth pursuing."
I decided to give this a go (though only for a couple of hours) and came up with the following list:
Within Adwords
Test higher payout offers
Test offers in broader niches
Add more keywords to existing campaigns
Search for multi-geo offers (there don't seem to be many/any in PPCall)
Target desktop as well as mobile
Test more ads in order to improve CTR
Improve QS
Negotiate a payout bump and Increase bid
Source direct offers with higher payouts and increase bid
Run mobile bid adjusted ads
Test new traffic sources
GDN
Mobile pops (the mother of volume)
Direct buys
Facebook
Buy an email list
Bing
Mobile Display
Start an Instagram page for the offer niche
Build a WP blog with a few articles on the niche
YouTube
Implement a re-targeting funnel
Radio
TV
Magazines
What do you guys think of the above list? I'm going to keep adding to the list as ideas come to me, prioritise and then test.
Nice work sticking at it!
Good plan. See how those ads perform and let us know!
Can you take a look over the actually clicked keywords and just see if anything jumps out as a bad keyword first?
Originally Posted by caurmen
Also given how clear my ads are, I can't understand why the conversion rate is so low and RingPartner said there's no functionality to listen to the recordings of the calls sent through...
Cut some expensive keywords and set up a new keyword group using a different angle of attack
Impressions: 1205
Calls: 44
Conversions: 3
Spend: $49
Revenue: $30
ROI: -39%
Still not in green but seem to making progress in the right direction.
Question: Does anyone know what a typical conversion rate is for these kind of offers? I’m running at around 7% which seems a bit low given the traffic is targeted…
Also, Google still isn’t tracking all impressions. It says I only had 1 conversion while RingPartner has recorded 3. Anyone know why this might have occurred? I'm thinking maybe the targets pencilled down the number and then rung it later, but there's no way to verify that...
April 12
Impressions: 870
Calls: 29
Conversions: 2
Spend: $47
Revenue: $20
ROI: -57%
13 April 2016
Impressions: 1,454
Calls: 51
Conversions: 2
Spend: $47
Revenue: $20
ROI: -57%
So I’ve run a few more days of traffic trying new keywords and ads with pretty similar results...
I think it’s time to pause AdWords; the conversion rate is too low to be profitable given the CPCs of the converting keywords. Almost 400 calls on this campaign so far and only 16 conversions i.e. a 4% conversion rate – I don’t know whether this is standard or not but it’s not good enough
The problem with running PPCall via AdWords is that it is seemingly quite difficult to optimise campaigns. The only major variables you can really change are
o Add more keywords – this can seem like a futile pursuit given the vast majority of keywords seem to give very little in terms of volume
o Try different ads – the problem here is that because you can’t hear a recording of the phone conversation, you can’t determine whether leads aren’t converting because of low quality ads, or low quality salesmen on the other end of the line, or some other reason
Given this, I think it’s time to switch traffic source. I’m thinking a mobile pop source with keyword/url targeting features (if many of these exist??), tried ZeroPark but volumes were actually super low when I tried keyword targeting for this vertical, or Facebook, super targeted with mega volumes, just scared of getting my personal account banned (campaign is whitehat but you never know with facebook!). A part of me feels like jumping from traffic source to traffic source is just as bad as jumping from vertical to vertical, but AdWords doesn't seem like the way forward…
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