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Another one - mobile journey (32)

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Hey I'm Dimitri from Holland and new to AM.
Ive been part of the forum for about 2 months and have just been absorbing and learning as much as I can.
I have since "taken action!" and had started by following the mobile cookbook. It was fun I had my first ever conversion on a sweeps camp to win an H&M gift voucher .
I realized tho that most newbies are all following this and so after understanding the basics had to switch things up. Now the focus is on Pops and redirects.

Current Situation
-With 3 Aff networks (Clickdealer, F5, Addiliate) looking to get into some more
-played around/tested (haven't fully tested or mastered) 5 traffic sources
-made some of my own landers - ripped a couple more
- have a pretty decent setup (Amazon s3 cloudfront, Adsbridge, Adsxposed, STM forum)
- working all day eryday
- Working on setting up as an incorporation - if anyone has any info on how to best set up your business on Holland please let me know!

Current sweeps campaign
Started with 6 different landing pages (4 made by me 2 that I saw a lot)

1/12/2016
-Cost: $26.64
-revenue: $12.24
-Profit: $-14.4
-ROI: -54.05%
17 conversions

I cut 3 landing pages that just weren't converting, and some placements that weren't converting.
(looking back maybe I should have let things run a bit more ........ still have no idea what im doing )
I actually know better - Vortex's how to cut placements, landers, banners....

1/13/2016
-Cost: $20.35 - still running until around 26 in ad spend
-Revenue: $11.52
-Profit: $-8.83
-ROI: -43.39

I'm a bit disappointed... When I had cut the non converting landers the offer was converting very well and giving me a positive ROI in the morning now throughout the day and on to the evening its fizzld out. I thought I would have my first green day.....
The landing page that was converting the best on the 12th did terribly today. so now on to figuring out what I should do next.

Some random thoughts and questions

Are only some parts of the day profitable for most campaigns?
My offer is in a small geo is it possible to get to $xxx and $xxxx in these smaller geos or if I am looking to hit those type of profits should I look to the larger geos?
I'm seeing others in their follow alongs just getting crazy amounts of conversions but i'm just always getting pretty small amounts. how are they getting so many?????
If any fellow people in Holland in the Amsterdam area are incorporated I would love to hear what steps you guys took to set it all up.
Also i'm open to sharing ideas and starting a mastermind with any group of dedicated people. Skype: dimitri.hamel

thanks all,
Dimitri

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ended today
1/13/2016
-Cost: $25.57
-revenue: $12.24
-Profit: $-13.33
-ROI: --52.13%
17 conversions

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Hi Dimitri, i am into pops as well, trying to add you on skype, but which one are you?

http://prntscr.com/9puji9

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the one from Miami (went to University there)

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Hey guys I had some trouble setting up my tracking with Adsbridge because most of the info on how to set things up were all in regards to Voluum.
I still set some things up wrong but these are some of the things that helped me out.
IamAttila has a great set of walkthrough guides regarding Adsbridge - find them hurr: http://iamattila.com/category/adsbridge
Adsbridge also has some video guides on youtube to help you - hurr: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xhj2x5xTKM
Lastly, their live support team really helped me a lot so you can ask them for help.
Hope this can help some people

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Actions taken today
Saw people would split up their campaigns and launch new campaigns with the best performing landers on the best targets.
So I thought I would play around with this today. I launched a new campaign with only the best two landers and the best performing targets. Then on the old campaign I added two new landers I saw through spying, and cut the worst performing lander of yesterday. Lets see how this works out today.

Am I on the right path to possibly making this green?

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Soooooooo
its my first day of seeing green!
however, all the cutting of placements etc have left me so little traffic that its nothing too special but well... ITS GREEN.

-Cost: $4.42
-revenue: $8.64
-Profit: $4.22
-ROI: 95.48%
almost quitting my job time

I don't think I will really be able to scale this up too much. The offer is for Belgium traffic only. Is it time to go on to the testing the next offers?

Also, can anyone maybe advise me on how to pick a good offer. I have read all over the forum this is really one of the most important things. I know that I should talk to my AM but since I am pretty new none of them are really giving me the time of day. I guess just keep trying to ask them, and join more networks.

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Thanks for starting this well-documented follow-along Dimitri!

Disappointed? Are you kidding? You should be patting yourself on the back! -50% ROI almost right off the bat is pretty good for a new person. You're doing well. One question: When you cut those landers, had results reached statistical significance? I know you mentioned my posts on stats but just wanted to make sure.


Yes, it is typical for conversion rates to fluctuate throughout the day, and also on different days of the week and even different times of the month and year. This is why some people will only run their camps during certain hours of the day or certain days of the week. This is known as "day parting" and many traffic sources will allow you to do that. However, doing day parting before you have extensive amounts of data may reduce your traffic unnecessarily. Also, at this stage of your campaign, your first priority is to have enough traffic for your offer and lander testing to reach statistical significance without a lot of waiting, so you wouldn't want to reduce traffic without a good reason. Another consideration is that with more testing, you'll find better landers and offers which will make the traffic convert better, so that currently-unprofitable hours of the day may become profitable later on.

Regarding geos and earning potential: Right now you're relatively close to breaking even and getting green. Don't concern yourself with whether this geo has the potential to make xxx/xxxx per day at this point! Use this as the perfect opportunity to learn the optimizing and scaling process! Keep testing landers and more importantly, same/similar offers for the same geo in order to increase your ROI. Once you're close to or at breakeven, start cutting placements and other targeting that don't meet your target ROI (30%+ recommended) to achieve green numbers. And of course try scaling to other traffic sources.

The "crazy amounts of conversions" could be from multiple geos or one big geo, multiple traffic sources or one big traffic source, and/or those members have more experience. You're doing great over here, so just focus on beating your current-best lander and current-best offer again and again via a few rounds of split-testing. That way you'd be comparing apples to apples.


Amy

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If you split-test landers, and cut under-performing ones as they reach statistical significance, you won't need to take your "best lander" and start a new campaign with it.

As for the best targets - yes that would get you to green quicker, but if those best targets only comprise of a small fraction of your total traffic, then there would be little point in getting green, as your profits would be small. It may be better to try to make as much of the total traffic profitable as you can via optimizing your campaign funnel, i.e. by split-testing your landers and offers to increase your ROI.

I have the same concern I did in the last post, and that is whether you're cutting landers correctly. If you could share them, I would love to see your lander stats at the time you decided to cut lander(s), just to make sure the cutting was statistically sound.

Having 2 campaigns as you've described may not be the best way to test landers. You're running the 2 new landers in one camp, and your current-best lander in another - this wouldn't be a fair comparison. All 3 landers should be run in the same camp to make sure they're subjected to the same conditions, i.e. same amount of traffic from the same placements etc. However, kudos for trying out new approaches - having creativity goes a long way and without testing different things you would never make new discoveries or come to new realizations.


Amy

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LOL! This is EXACTLY what I meant when I said it may be better to get green via optimizing your funnel by testing landers and offers, instead of through cutting stuff. If you cut enough stuff you can almost always get green, but if you're left with so little traffic that you're only making a few bucks a day, then why bother. This is a valuable learning experience though - and it didn't cost you a thing and even made you a few bucks! Can't complain there!

I would suggest that you stick with this geo and test more landers and offers to increase your ROI. It's not every day that you'll hit on -50% ROI almost right off the bat. Joining more affiliate networks like you said would be great. It would be hard to recommend networks without knowing what kind of offer you're promoting. If you don't want to share this in public, consider telling me in a PM and I'll see if I could suggest other networks to join, and perhaps put you in touch with some of my contacts. Basically, join more networks and ask all your AMs for their best offers for that offer type for belgium that accept pop traffic. Test those offers to find the best. Then test more landers to optimize ROI further. Then also consider testing offers that have not been recommended by AMs (but of course are still the same type of offer for the same geo) - sometimes you'll find gems that convert well but haven't made their way into a top offers list, and get first-mover's advantage. If after several rounds of split-testing (of landers and offers) you still can't breakeven or get green, THEN maybe consider testing another geo or traffic source. It really looks to me like you've got something promising going there.

Keep up the great work and keep the updates coming!


Amy

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Haha yup so exactly what you said would happen every step of the way! Thank you for looking through all the steps I have taken so far.
I was running a "win a free iPhone offer" it was one from Clickdealer and one from F5 that I had split test but one never converted.
I will keep the updates coming, and thank you again!

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Ah sweeps! OK! Lemme see...I'd suggest for you to also sign up to Mundo Media and Adsimilis. I also know a direct advertiser that has many sweeps offers but I don't know if they welcome newbies. Once you have more experience we can try them.

And of course there are tons other affiliate networks you could join, but clickdealer + F5 + mundo + adsimilis should have enough sweeps offers for you to play with for now.


Amy

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Great follow along, datdim. Sounds like you're well on the way, my friend.

Keep pushing.

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Actions over weekend

-Applied to Adsimilis and Mundo Media
(hoping to hear back from them later today to finish up the process)
-did some networking
(Was able to speak to my AM's some and then also networked some with people on the forum)
-Watched all of these http://stmforum.com/forum/showthread...222#post223222
and wow breh! http://www.caurmen.com/STM2015/
I will definitely be trying to go to AWC Berlin this summer and any STM converences/meetups not too far....

This week
-Put more of this to action:

-Learn and develop a way to optimize campaigns better
-Develop a daily workflow thats efficient and makes sense. Not just random now i'll do this and try this (help/advise here plz anyone)
-keep networking...

*interesting and great takeaway from this weekend "the only way you can truly fail at affiliate marketing is by giving up."

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Hello,

wanted to step in with a few more points

You were concerned about the GEO, I can assure you that even pretty small GEOs can bring big numbers. Truth to be told, you will need to run in maaaany sources to make that happen, but yes, it is possible. I really cannot think of a GEO where it wouldnt be possible to reach high XXX per day in revenue.

Also wanted to point out the fact that landing pages and offers tend to perform differently as the time flows. One day the LP can rock, the other one it will go down and the same goes for offers. That is why I always try to run with at least 2 LPs and offers. When one goes down, the other one can compensate and make up for the loss. You will see this happenign times and times again. This is something to keep in mind during the initial optimization process. Rather spend a few more $ and make sure you have enough data, than make bad decisions based on a sudden spike or drop in perfomance.

Keep going!

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Hey @datdim, I'm a rep from Adsimilis. Ping me at joanieschneider.dqna and I can help you with your application approval.

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Hey Matuloo! thanks for having a look and helping me out ... I'm looking to stay with this smaller geo for a bit and figure out how to make it profitable. I saw this: http://stmforum.com/forum/showthread...es-size-matter Would you suggest a similar approach for these smaller geo's

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little updates

-I've been slowly figuring out somewhat of a workflow for my campaigns.
-Got started on the paperwork to register my affiliate stuff as a company.
-I am now also working with Adsimilis thanks to the contact with Joanie.
-Got a lot of help from my AM at F5 and he recommended a few top performing sweeps offers in Belgium to try out (I am currently split testing these today)

Rotating 7 landers between the two offers recommended, traffic coming from adcash.
- I ran it in all of Belgium until about $15 ad spend - 0 conversions
- All my landers are in Dutch except 1 is in english so I now targeted only the dutch speaking parts of Belgium. - Now to see what happens
- clicks don't matter in pops I feel like right? only conversions!
-I will update later

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Nice progress! Several thoughts/suggestions:

-Adcash is a good network, but it has a variety of placements with good and not-so-good quality traffic mixed together, so $15 isn't going to tell you a lot. Typically you'll need to spend money to cut out the not-so-good placements. For this reason, you may want to start elsewhere - like popads - and use adcash to scale later when you have proven offer+lander.

-Regarding languages: You can drill down into your Voluum stats for "languages" to see which languages your traffic is speaking, then create rules in Voluum to redirect them to the correct language, e.g. dutch-speaking visitors to a dutch lander and french-speaking visitors to a french lander.

-You're right - clicks / CTR doesn't really matter in pops when it comes to deciding what to cut in a split-test. However, when you're designing or improving your landers, you'll want to figure out how to make CTR increase without decreasing CR. e.g. Say your current landing page is converting 1 every 10 people that click through it, if you can improve it so that twice as many people are clicking through, AND STILL get 1 in 10 to convert, then you'll have effectively doubled your conversion rate.



Amy

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Thank you Amy for having a look you are really helping me out and keeping me motivated!
I let the campaign keep running until it reached $65 and yup even this isn't telling me much. 0 conversions but well its all part of the process... at least i'm telling myself this I will be going for popads then and sticking with it to get some data I can hopefully work with. Thank you for the Voluum redirect advice, I'm using adsbridge as my tracker right now but I should be able to do something similar, if not I might consider switching over.

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You dont have to take this as a must-follow rule. What they wanted to say was that with high priced GEOs you shouldnt go straight to the most competitive spots as they're gonna burn your fingers. The post suggests to try cheaper spots and get a feel of the GEO, get your stuff optimized and then attack the bigger spots.

The thread was started by Mobidea guys, they are mostly into adult and the thread reflects it. They mention Belgium, if you pick that GEO and launch in xhamster.com NVT-A spot and bid high, then yes, it will eat you alive

So its basically up to the sources you pick, if you pick a smaller network and a smaller GEO... you will have to go their larger publishers to get something going.

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That's what we're here for - to keep each other motivated until we experience enough success to know that AM is real! Likewise, thanks for starting this follow-along to provide another opportunity for other new people to learn from your experiences.

$65 without a conversion - ouch! If you're using popular landers and hot offers, you should have gotten some conversions by now. Let's look into a few things:

1)What kinds of landers are you using? And how many are you testing? Since this is your first test, I would suggest picking 5-10 very different landers from spy tools (adplexity/adsxposed or any other spy tool that are good for "borrowing" landers).

2)What's the payout range of your offers? The higher the payout, the larger test budget you'll need.

3)How many offers are you testing? Are they from the same network? As a first test it's better to stick with hot offers from a couple of networks. If you're only testing F5 offers I would highly suggest getting at least one more offer from a different network.

Another suggestion: Try to use your tracker's campaign link to sign up to an offer (remember to set your VPN to the target geo unless you've living there), to see if it registers in the aff network's stats and also your tracker stats. If this is your first campaign, we better make sure links are working before you spend any more money on traffic. If you encounter problems in the process, enlist help from your AM. Just tell them you want to trigger a conversion and they'll help you.


Amy

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Thank you Amy,

1. I had 7 different landers, all of them are popular landers ive seen ([star wars theme-Probably outdated but still wanted to test], [iPhone 7 quiz theme] [amazon themed lander]... other common ones you have probably seen

2. the payout range for the offers was below $1.

3. I was testing 2 offers but both were from F5.

I have now moved to testing 3 different offers from (Clickdealer, F5, Adsimilis) and now starting with popads like you recommended. I'm still using the above mentioned landers.

I was up pretty late half asleep reading through the forum last night, and saw in some threads that you can sell traffic that doesnt qualify for your offer on to a platform called ytz international. I saw a guy is running campaigns only on there and doing it very well even! Is it possible to combine running these sweeps campaigns and then sending traffic that doesn't qualify for my offer to ytz? Do you recommend looking into this or only focus on the current process?

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7 different landers with different themes + 3 different offers + popads = a great start!

I'm assuming the 3 offers are very similar, for example they're all iphone sweeps offers. And I'm assuming the landers all reflect the actual product in the offers (e.g. iphones)?

We have 2 choices when it comes to split-testing these landers and offers.

1)If the offers are really similar, we can ignore the inter-dependency between landers and offers, and just evaluate offer stats and landers stats separately from each other when using the split-test calculator.

2)Alternatively, we can factor in the inter-dependency between landers and offers into our calculations, i.e. evaluate each lander+offer combination separately to find the best combination.

Option 1 will be faster and will take up a lot less test budget, but will be less accurate. Basically you'll have 2 split-tests going on simultaneously: A lander split-test for 7 landers, and an offers split-test for 3 offers. In this case you'll be looking at lander stats on their own and cutting inferior landers (without considering offer stats), and looking at offers separately and cutting inferior offers (without considering lander stats).

Option 2 will take a lot more time and budget but will be more accurate. You'll be treating it as one split-test with 7x3=21 candidates, where you'll keep cutting to find the best offer+lander combo.


I feel that option 2 would be a bit of an overkill if the offers are very similar, so I'd recommend going with option 1. If you would update this thread periodically with your lander and offer stats, we can go over how/when to cut stuff. Sounds like a plan?


Amy

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yup sounds great!
I am going with your option 1.
What do you think about the ytz international point. Should I consider this at a later period?

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Great! Looking forward to seeing some stats soon!

Regarding YTZ - if there's a traffic segment that isn't converting well (or if it's not accepted by the offer), AND if you can't deselect it from your traffic source targeting, then yes, sending it to YTZ would be a good thing to test. You can split-test this just like how you'd split-test other offers. Other options would be to send that traffic to another offer, or even sell it back to a traffic source.

First of all though, are you sure you can't stop targeting that traffic at your traffic source? (For example if the offer doesn't accept IOS traffic, just don't target IOS.)


Amy

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Hey Amy so here are some results over the past two days:

I took a little bit for Popads to allow my campaign to go live...so for about half a day on 26/1/16
-Cost: $20.20
-revenue: $1.44
-Profit: $-18.76
-ROI: -92.87%
* I only had two conversions... One was through a lander and one was through direct linking


27/1/16
-Cost: $31.41
-revenue: $2.32
-Profit: $-29.09
-ROI: -92.61
*only 3 conversions, all through direct linking to the offers landing page.

For the offers I spoke to my AM's and they were top offers so I don't think that is the problem.
I thought I had ripped some good landing pages but the stats say nooooooooo

so back to the drawing board with the landers.
what do you suggest Amy?
Thank you as always for your help!

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Thanks for the stats! However, with 7 landers and 3 offers, 5 conversions won't tell you much about which lander or offer is better.

Could you post a breakdown of the number of conversions for each offer, and also number of conversions for each lander?


Amy

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Just reread some of our earlier posts. So you're testing 7 landing pages plus direct linking? So the direct link received 1/8th of the traffic, but made 4 out of the 5 total conversions?

If I understood that correctly, then I see what you mean when you say to go back to the drawing board with the landers.

Something feels off though. Have you actually browsed to your campaign link, and clicked on your landers to make sure you're redirected to the correct offers? Have you checked your lander page load times to make sure they're not too slow? Are you using a CDN?


Amy

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I haven't updated or written on here for a while so here we go...

So I definitely had to reorganize myself and take a step back and look at how I was doing everything. I was actually I believe too focused on just quickly taking action! I was rushing in creating and editing landers I found and didn't make sure that everything was actually set up properly. I was still messing up setting up basic things like tracking! then also this was amazing haha when someone would click through my lander and want to go to the offer and claim their chance of winning, they were greeted with an exit popup telling them "are you sure you want to leave and miss out on this amazing once in a lifetime opportunity of winning this shiniest of shiny new iphone 6???!" (something like this ) So just terrible mistakes, but I'm definitely learning a lot.
Thank you Amy for the continued replies and the guidance!

I am now also running with banners just because I like making them and I feel like if someone clicks on that they already have some the intent. I will update with some stats later this week

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stats

2/8/2016
-Cost: $19.46
-revenue: $11.32
-Profit: $-8.14
-ROI: -41.83
15 conversions

2/9/2016
-Cost: $38.92
-Revenue: $14.73
-Profit: $-24.19
-ROI: -62.15
19 conversions

I went down some in terms of ROI, however, I think I have some new profitable placements. I am working on optimizing better this time and not cutting placements too early.

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Nice! Could you post some stats when you have a few minutes? Some of the offers and/or landers may be ready for cutting. If you could post screenshots of the following:

1)Offer stats
2)Lander stats
3)Offer -> Lander stats


Amy

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