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POPS+SWEEPS. Tested MY,DE,FR,SE,NL,PL. Didnt work! HELP! Stats inside! 100% dedicated (14)

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maybe you should add pictures of the LP's to make people understand it more...

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Hello, there are a few problems that I see with your efforts, let me address some of them :

1. Your GEOs - Malaysia used to work very well with PIN submits just a few months ago, but due to some new regulations of the market, its not so hot anymore. Of course there is still money to be made here, but its hard to start in this GEO now without having anything proven in your hands. Poland is a pretty good GEO for PINs, Im surprised you didnt do better here, maybe you picked a poor offer. Its also important what carrier you pick in Poland, not all of them work good and the difference is rather big in this GEO. Netherlands, Germany, France and Sweden are all pretty hard GEOs in general, with expensive traffic and not exactly the best picks for new affiliate marketers. I would recommend starting in LATAM or ASIAN geos, there are some huge coutries there with cheaper traffic and less regulations.

2. WIFI vs CARRIER - you didnt write much about what type of traffic you went after. Wifi traffic is generally cheaper and should be ok for lead gen offers, unless specified differently. You didnt write how 3g performed for you compared to wifi, but generally speaking, I dont send 3G traffic to other than carrier billing offers. One of the reasons is the usually higher bids for 3G traffic, so the same bid gives me lower quality 3G traffic compared to WIFI.

3. The vertical you chose - sweeps are hard to convert if you follow all the rules, sad but true. You can bet your arm and leg that a landing page saying YOU WON! will convert better than YOU CAN TAKE PART IN A COMPETITION AND POSSIBLY WIN... obviously, its usually forbidden to directly state someone has WON something. Guys running sweeps and cloacking dont care about these rules and thus can afford to pay more and drive traffic prices up.

4. Then there is the obvious : your angles and landing pages, cannot really comment on those since you didnt show any. But this might very well be where you fail at.

Now the questions is, what you should do next Pops+sweeps work, no question about this, so eventually you can get them to work too. But it might be too hard for you at this stage. However, if you decide to continue with this setup I would recommend to move away from EU GEOs and focus more on latam or asia. Do not jump from one GEO to another, pick 1 or 2 and try to master them. Its pointless to spend 100 bucks on one geo and move to another without actually getting any meaningful data. In many cases its had to run an offer with good ROI on a large scale, but there are pretty much always at least some sources/placements that have good results, but to find them you need a lot of data, once you have these sources you can target them directly with new campaigns. Search for them.

You should also consider trying different ad methods, how about banners? They give you one more chance to target the visitor and I personally do better with banners than pops when it comes to PIN submits

Dont forget to test more offers and possibly also more affiliate networks. Sometimes all it takes is one good offer.

Work on your landers, you need to be as aggressive as possible, grab the surfers attention and use any means that the network or offer allows. This is a case by case situation but you can use entry pops, JS alerts, sound ... and since this is mobile traffic, do not forget about the backbutton redirect, that can really help too.

Good luck and dont give up

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The landers were 3 different styles as usual... Instant winner , Quiz, Game ( interaction )

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Firstly would like to say a big thank you for your advises and comments.

Regarding to banners, few days ago I have asked my am managers which traffic sources generates biggest revenues for sweeps offers. Both confirmed that the biggest part (90%) of sweeps' revenues comes from pop traffic .

Also when using pops, the visitors comes from a shady environments, so to make them to enter their personal information or phone number requires trust, what makes the game even harder.

Regarding to LATIN and ASIA geos, most of the sweeps offers are PIN sumbits.... and from my point of view, pops are not the best traffic source for sweeps PIN submit offers... It better converts with FB or dispay as you have mentioned..... But I could be wrong......

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Its awesome that your testing all these GEO but why did you only test 1 offer in each GEO? Out hustle/smart the competition by spending additional time to make 3 lander for another offer. This way you will cover twice the ground and hopefully 1 offer stands out.

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I'm glad you liked my comments, you're welcome

Let me tell you one thing about AM, you are probably aware of it, but many people overlook this : AMs see revenue, they dont know what the ROI looks like, so maybe pops do the most volume, but banners make better ROI. Since you are starting, you should focus more on ROI now, volume can come later. They also cant be really sure if the traffic is just pop, there can be back buttons, redirects etc in the mix, they only know what the affiliate tells them and as we all know, affiliates dont like to give out more info than needed, so take info like this with a grain of salt

You never know how pops and pin submits are gonna work in latam or asia until you try it What works for me, doesnt necessarilly have to work for you. Take the banner remark just as a suggestion and another option to try. Always test!

Good luck

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Matuloo has basically covered everything I know and more - so I'll just make 2 additional suggestions:

1)Start split-testing offers and more ripped landers from the very start!

2)Run tests to statistical significance! (Unless things look very, very bad.)


I've just talked about this in another post, so will refer you to that instead of reiterating here:

http://stmforum.com/forum/showthread...l=1#post251783

Please read the last section starting from "Sweeps is a very big vertical..."


Amy

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Thank you so much for your time giving me an advice )

You have mentioned of how the initial test should look like in the given post ..... ( quoted above)...
The issue I was facing at the initial tests, was:

The day 1 or day 2 was showing promising stats (-50 % , - 60% GERMANY, FRANCE, NETHERLANDS) .... But then the ROI was going down every single day, when testing more offers, landers (even testing the same winner lander+offer).. I couldn't make the ROI up. Also in France, Germany the ROI went down even after blacklisting big placements, which were generating (40% of all of my traffic).


Also would like to ask, if its okay to try testing the GEO which has 3 offers (SWEEPS SOI) only? Or should I look for GEO which has plenty of offers to choose from. Because some geos (LATIN, ASIA, AFRICA not ZA) don't have plenty of offers to choose from.


Thank you

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Thank you Matuloo

I guess lots of experienced affiliates do know the formula which lets to pre-calculate if the money could be made in certain geo with certain offer and traffic price. So would like to ask if you know the formula lol

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personally i think the number conversion there is far away from significance. the france one look better with initial testing -50% i think its a good start (before blacklisting crappy placement etc).

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Thanks @beemarkt for this threadt! very helfull for this newbie!

@matuloo great info and i really focused on 1 thing you said: "3. The vertical you chose - sweeps are hard to convert if you follow all the rules, sad but true. You can bet your arm and leg that a landing page saying YOU WON! will convert better than YOU CAN TAKE PART IN A COMPETITION AND POSSIBLY WIN... obviously, its usually forbidden to directly state someone has WON something. Guys running sweeps and cloacking dont care about these rules and thus can afford to pay more and drive traffic prices up.

Me doing pops on sweeps is thinking now... ehm... i dont know how to cloak so how can i make this profitable then?

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The formula certailny does exist if you want to call it that way I would say its just about knowing your market. I have a lot of experience with adult dating for example, focusing mostly on a limited amount of GEOs that I know well.

Lets take one of them for example, I know that with targeted banners I can currently get traffic for that GEO from proven sources at about 10 cents a click on average. I also know that if Im about to use LPs that actually convert, the LP CTR will be about 25-30%, its pretty low but thats how it is in that GEO now. And I also know that the average CVR rate with this setup can go below 1:10 LP clicks. So this means I will get approx 1 lead in 30-40 clicks which equals to about $3-$4 cost per lead. Knowing this, I know I can test offers starting a bit below $3 per lead and expecting profit once I get a paybump for quality and volume.

The numbers I gave you here are real numbers that I see in my campaigns, BUT please keep in mind that these are AVERAGE numbers. In the same GEO, I have spots where I can get traffic for 5cents a click and on some sources I convert like 1:6 LP clicks. The averages are good to know to be able to tell if a source/banner or offer do even stand a chance to become profitable. The problem is, this is diferent from GEO to GEO and vertical to vertical, so you basically need to gain experience with any given market to be able to make this assumptions.

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What I do in cases like this, whatever vertical it is, if Im not able to become profitable on a large scale with broad targeting, I at least want to make a small but long lasting campaign here. The recipe is running a whitelist campaign, in other words targeting just the best sources. I'm not saying its a cure-all formula, but it works well for me very often.

Just about 2.5 weeks ago, I did this with one campaign : it was spending about $400-$500 per day, I've done a reasonable amount of optimizations, but still wasnt able to pull the campaign to a decent profit. It made a few bucks on one day, then lost a bit on the other one. I was testing a lot of banners here, hoping to hit some good ones, cause it really didnt need much to become profitable. But I simply couldnt do it. After analyzing the sources, I noticed there are quite a lot with really high CTR, so I gave in, paused the whole thing, I picked just the best sources and did another campaign targeting just those. The volume went down to about $120 per day, but on good days the profit is close to $100. And I didnt touch the campaign ever since

Maybe you should try this approach too.

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When you said -50% to -60% ROI - was that just a result of a couple of leads? Because if so, then that wouldn't be the average/true ROI - it may just be a lucky start.

If that's the case, it would explain the ROI "going down every single day" as it averaged out.

Also - if you were blacklisting placements at the same time, it could affect your ROI as well.

This is exactly why I often suggest to AVOID cutting too many placements when you're mass-testing stuff. You need as much traffic as you can get in order to get the testing done with acceptable speed. While you're testing, unless a placement is REALLY burning a lot of test budget with no conversions (I'd say 5x payout or so), try to let it run. Typically, in the initial testing stages, very few of your placements will be profitable. It's not because the placements are bad, but because you don't have the best offer and/or lander yet. So just focus on testing offers and landers, and cutting as things reach statistical significance, until you're close to break even, THEN mass-cut placements that aren't giving you profits even when you're running your best offer+lander.


The answer is a resounding YES!! LATAM and Asian geos are goldmines. Even if you can only find one offer, as long as there's enough traffic for that geo on a particular traffic source to be worth your time, I'd say go for it! Typically, the fewer offers that exist for a geo, the less competitive that geo will be. In the end though, only testing will tell.


Amy

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