Fake payout bumps (21)
I'm not going to name networks but when you see payouts almost double...Something is not right.
A few months ago there was a payout increase on one of my campaigns. Payout was around 14-15 and it was bumped to 23-26. Something has to be up but I was blinded by dollars...So I tried to send as much traffic as possible since I'm just going to make a killing with this new payout.
With 50,000 clicks for each month with the different payouts I had the exact same EPC for both months...I should have had a small drop in CR but completely offset by the large payout. Probably 90% of the traffic was the same sites/apps for each month. Not to drop cliches but if it seems too good...Don't fall for it. They give you a huge payout and tell you what a favor they're doing for you to help you increase volume and revenue...Since I have a lot of data from this campaign it's really easy to see you're getting hosed but with a new campaign you would have no idea. I made choices knowing my current ROI and then basing what my ROI will be with the payout increase. So I've increased my CPC and CPM to pay for traffic I shouldn't be bothering re-testing in the first place...On top of all that I have no idea what conversions were taken and will further ruin my data.
Now it's happening again and the trend is true across every campaign I'm running with a payout increase. Think long and hard if that's the kind of business you want to work with. Willing to lie and trick you for a very short-term gain that will be completely obvious to many affiliates. A little more money can't be worth the affiliates that see what kind of business you're running and would have run traffic for years to come if you hadn't lied and tricked them.
-Sihlous-
Eventually, you'll be left with a list (very short one) of cool networks.
h0mp, what are the networks you recommend from your experience?
This is called "Throttling" meaning disapproving way more. So their initial pay out is e.g. double and then at the end of the month they disapprove half of your conversions.
This practice is used by malicious affiliate networks in order to convince you to work with them and not their competitors...but in the end it backs out the same for you as an affiliate.
Be very, very suspicious of affiliate networks that use Hasoffers or Cake as there is a standard option to throttle available.
Immediately pause all campaigns if you expect throttling is happening with your offers, and ask for a DETAILED report on a specific lead level. Or even reach out to the advertiser himself via linkedin/phone/email to verify your numbers.
Don't be shy to publish their names here - let the industry know who's throttling. I can tell you we never do this as this is a very short term strategy that will backfire in the end
Originally Posted by cbrughmans
All the networks I work with have updated from Hasoffers to Cake..
NOT: Mundo, Matomy, Addiliate.com, Zanox, Tradetracker, etc.
There's hunderds.
Throttling is one of the reasons we either don't work anymore with networks that use hasoffers/cake or we set a max disapproval rate before launching the campaign
we use Has offers and i think saying all network that use has offers or cake do "automatic Scrubs" is a wrong thing to say as this is not the case.
its all about the network and not the platform they are using.,
if a network wants to play this dirty game of Throttling the network will do it even if they use their own custom network.
as I see it - in the end its all about trust.
@sihlous, like you said bud, measure the EPC in the long run and cross the networks out you spot doing those nasty practises.
It was just a particular method that I hadn't seen before...It was surprising to see it done so badly though...A business full of people hammering numbers are just going to miss this? Sadly they have a few exclusive campaigns that I need but they are now the last network I look at to do anything new with if I look at all. It just seems an obviously horrible long-term decision.
every time I ask for a BUMP that happen, for example if the payout is $1 and the actual EPC on my account is $0.2
When the AM bump it to $1.2, the EPC still the same 
this mean yes he increased my payout by 20% but also he start scrub 20% of leads
is same same , My last experience I was working on 1 offers for more than 1 year and after 1 year I say ok I will try the same offer on another network I get 500% increase in ROI
I swear is 500%
I feel bad but you learn from your bad experience
Everyone's presuming its the network doing the scrub where in most cases it doesn't make sense and its more likely its the merchant doing it at their end to make the numbers back out. Although is could be stitched up by the network and merchant in some cases.
If a network is on a percent cut of the affiliate sales then it's not sensible to scrub at the network level, even though EVERY system has a scrub feature built in. The network is simply scrubbing sales they would get themselves.
Of course you should only work with people you trust but finding those people especially when starting out is a challenge in itself, I have found that the ones who shout loudest about how straight they are usually the ones who are shafting people. The ones who are legit are quietly going about their business and building relationships.
It's still pretty much the wild west out here
Hey Gary...I ran another report with a different advertiser and you might be right. EPC was solidly higher with some new traffic that converted less and would have made it much harder to even keep the previous EPC. I look at stats on such a small scale that I miss something big and obvious.
However this time around conversions are being hid completely and then added later. I'm getting conversions at the worst hours of the day and hours when my ads aren't even running. All the data I'm getting right now is basically useless...Some traffic looks bloated because of the higher payout and other traffic looks bad because I never see conversions in the first place.
I'm now in the other side of the business. I was an affiliate myself for 10 years and for the last 5 years I'm partner in an affiliate program, so I have seen the same reality from both sides.
On the affiliate side, most have been said here already.
On the program side, I have this discussion with new affiliates from time to time. Sometimes they come to me saying: "Hey, you are paying me 70% and network B is paying me 85%, I want 85% from you too".
My answer is always: "85% of what?, any network can give you 140% if you want and then report you 50% of conversions, would that make you happier?" or "they are giving you 85% but maybe their offers have a lower payout, or worse conversion ratios, or just a panel with thousands of offers with no details about conversion, average epc etc as we do, doing a huge amount of work for you already and saving you money on offers testing. Or we have highly paid professional AMs while company B might have cheap and angry low paid employees, etc so in resume, just a % number means very little".
What you need to look at the end is:
1) epc or ecpm, how much do you earn for every 1000 clicks sent to network A compared with what you earn from 1000 clicks sent to network B. When I say look at epc/ecpm, take in account the clicks discrepancy between what you sent them and what they count, as epc can be easily raised by counting less clicks on the affiliate program stats panel and can trick you if you are not paying attention.
2) How accurate are them reporting the conversions and tracking the properly and the targeting tools they have, so you can optimice your traffic sources using that data and tools.
3) And one of the most important things besides payout, that is the quality of the affiliate managers and the advice they can give you to get the most from your traffic.
Look away from the networks that only offer you a high % or an unusually high CPA/CPI/CPL. Their strategy is just being cheap.
Keep in mind too that some networks run on lower margins. If a payout is unusually higher than normal, it'll give you an indication of what the payout is to the networks. We ran a small margin network but gambled on volume. Trust me standard take is about 5-10%, but larger networks get away with sometimes 30-35% take not even including scrubbing. It's absurd. You'll find scrubbing more rampant on larger networks than smaller ones where they are looking for your business.
just my 2cents
30-35% is unfeasible nowadays. With the current competition there is in the market you cant get away with that.
Industry standard commission rates are shifting downwards to the 10-15% ranges, which is a good thing.
Originally Posted by cbrughmans
Originally Posted by cbrughmans
Originally Posted by cbrughmans
I should also mention I have years with these people and nothing like this until this happened...There was trust built up and a lot of really helpful AM's that I liked. They should have seen the final result from the beginning though...They make a little extra money in the short term...I figure it out and they lose a lot more in the long-term. Makes it all the worse...To think things are going good so a scam should work better.
Payout is irrelevant all about EPC.
Could be $1000 a lead payout but the user has to send blood test and stool sample in mail for pixel to fire.
Might get same epc as a $1 payout for email submit of potential user.
Also if possible find the same offer on multiple (trusted)networks and rotate it and see which network gives you the best EPC regardless of the payout differences as things on their backend can affect the funnel.
Originally Posted by musketeer
1. I knew this offer up and down and had tons of data on it from many months before at the normal payout. So I know my EPC very well.
2. I'm told my payout is increasing by 60%...I obviously didn't realize at the time I'm being lied to and tricked so knowing my EPC with the normal payout I figure out what my EPC will be at the new payout. I thought it was a legit payout increase meaning I could pay a much higher CPC and CPM...I then see at the end of the month the same EPC...It's too late now...I got jacked.
3. Triple-check findings and report to internet immediately.
The first week was definitely NOT throttled so I was now convinced it was all good...My stats looked just like I thought they would 60% higher for that week. This is a made campaign on auto-pilot so I see variation all the time and I'm not checking the numbers to the penny every day...I shouldn't have to...Plus I wasn't making any less money with this change so the days are still profitable for most days of the rest of the month. The biggest problem is your data is all completely wrong and basically useless which is in itself a large money loss.
there are networks that will "scrub" and "throttle" using any back end system they have, not just Cake or Hasoffers. It is more common to "optimize" on home grown software. if the payout is too good to be true, than its most likely not true. raise the payout to get the clicks, scrub the leads to get the margin. EPC is the only thing that matters.
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