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How to scale up with FB? (Questions) (27)

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Hey there,

I've been recently doing Facebook and getting semi decent results and thinking of scaling it up, there's a few questions.
(I'm doing a conversion tracking, and no bidding at all)

1. If one ad set's budget is currently at $40 a day. Is it advisable to just bump it up to $60 or even $80? I heard if you do big increments, somehow your cost-per-conversion shoots through the roof as FB 'thinks' you've got the budget to spend, and somehow screws me over.

2. If increasing budget isn't the way to do it, what other ways do you guys recommend me scaling it up?

3. I'm currently scaling it sideways. My main campaign from age 25-55 has been positive so far, so I made a new campaign with 3 ad sets targeting 25-35, 36-45. 46-55 with a $5 budget each to start with. Increasing it by $5+ per day for the ones that is converting, is that a good idea?

Love to hear your advice, thanks

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If you run whitehat, you might want to add a couple of ad sets with low budget, if you run blackhat, slowly increasing the budget is smart, as adding too many ad sets creates a flag.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, white hat in this case =?
I'm sending it to a personal lander which links to the offer.

Do you suggest stopping the main ad set (Doing $40/day), and do up a few sub ad-sets for $5 a day, or just set up new sub ad sets even with the main adset running?

Here's what I'm doing
Campaign1 = Main ad set with all age groups/interest : $40/day
Campaign2 = Split into 3 ad sets in 3 different age groups : $5/day each
Campaign3 = Lookalike campaign with 3 ad sets in 3 different age group : $5/day <-- Just launched

Am I doing or organising things correctly?

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well targetting sharper might increase your cpc, but might improve it, so you have to find out what is best.

try out: 5 dollar ad sets, no age splitting. and see how that goes. vs splitting age.

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You definitely have to be careful when you're upping the budget. I would take it slow, and divide the campaign into 5-10 year age groups, like you mention, and maybe see if there's other ways to scale it (interests, gender etc)

I think Facebook has a habit of showing your ad to a less desirable audience, once you start running a big daily budget. This is what I've experienced personally, and also heard from people making $100k+ monthly through Facebook ads.

I ran Teespring/Fabrily campaigns for a year and a half, and the CR would drop drastically 9 out of 10 times whenever I doubled the budget.

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Chunk I did group everything together, and it's running at 45 bucks per day. The point is trying to scale up now though, so I'm splitting them up so I can up the budget. 1 x $45/day vs 4 x $20/day.

@thepinkwhale, thanks for the input. That's what I heard too. That's why I'm super curious how people actually scaled out to $100k monthly campaigns with FB seeing it's not about just upping the budget.

It'll be great if people can share their input, and also see if my campaign set up has any obvious flaws in it

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Ok, i have no clue what kind of offer you have but since you have no clue what i am talking about, i suppose you run whitehat and nothing illegal (so your account does not get blocked whenever you get a manual review).

Based on this i say: make a lot of different ad sets. 5 dollar each.

Now, when i say: make ad sets without targetting: one pool of ages

ans split test this versus a couple of age split testes.

See for yourself what the better results gives.

but to answer your question: you scale up by adding more ad sets of 5 dollar. (but this is based on you being a whitehat guy)

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Thanks chuck, appreciate your reply. Is it true when you target smaller groups of people the cpm it's shoots through the roof?

Reason for this is because if I'd like to largely scale this, there's really so many ad sets I can target without targeting too small of a number. Eg targeting 30 year age range with 5 interests vs 10 year age range with 5 interests vs 5 year age range with 1 interest each. It doesn't make too much sense... (Or does it?)

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Very very careful scaling ad sets with FB as everyone has generally mentioned... As a little addition I would suggest you think backwards in terms of ROI rather than looking directly at the bidding strategy.

For example if you have a killer campaign doing 700%+ ROI then doubling your daily ad spend CAN work assuming you watch it like a hawk all the way. The advantage to this are that although you certainly will lose ROI due to CPC costs and FB's dubious bidding strategy treating you like a drug dealer... "Want more? Yeah it's going to cost you baby..."

You'll make more money simply by riding that profit wave as standard economical laws of scale kick in. I.e. Why make 100 per day at 700 % ROI when you can make 1000 per day at 75% ROI? Yes you could duplicate it across multiple ad sets but spamming that can lead to an account flag, which you want to avoid even if you are running white hat.

It's the average campaigns that I increase my bidding slowly for. If my ROI isn't that great... don't expect FB to play ball evenly with it as you scale. Go up by 25% - 50 % MAX for the lower performing campaigns. All campaigns behave differently so there is no hard and fast rule. Test, but generally stay on the cautious side of things is my advice!

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Great thoughts Relicman

Here's the thing, I'm running at around 35-40% ROI. Meaning revenue is around 140$ for every $100 spent. So I'm not looking at some amazing margins here. And any funny movements by FB can very quickly decimate the campaign.

I'm still relatively new to FB, so there's lots of mechanics I'm not too sure about which I do appreciate someone can help.
(GREAT stuff from the forums so far!)
What sort of implications (and does it even matter) if I've got overlapping campaigns/adsets going targeting the same interest/age group?

Example: Campaign A with 1 adset targeting 20-50 years old + 5 interests
Campaign B with 5 ad sets targeting 20-50 and 1 interest each

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Although we say what you should do, you still dont know exactly why you would do things, right ?

There are two factors here:
1) By targetting sharper, your cpc does get higher.
2) By targetting sharper, your results will get better.

Quite contradictory right? Well we cannot tell you which one of the two will win. Depends on so many factors. the only answer i can give you is: test it.

Now, by increasing your budget, you will aim at a broader audience, (because you will target at a audience less likely to click or engage). Now the same factors hold. So the same answer applies: test it.

However, as facebook optimized too quickly, you might want to perform several tests.

How many ads do you have per ad set?

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LOL

I am actually really new into Facebook, and really just getting my feet out there and playing with whatever I can. (especially with overlapping adsets)

I only have 1 ad per ad set, heard it's not good to do multiple, especially since I'm doing oCPM, unless I'm wrong?

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test it

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I'd put it at 400$/day for one day and see what happens.

Don't forget you need to upscale campaigns and take the max profit you can before the campaign dies out or gets saturated or paused by the advertiser for whatever reason (e.g. cap reached).

If you don't make the huge volumes while you can, someone else will. Don't be afraid to go all-in if you see something is working.

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One thing that is good practice to always do (before you get to this point next time) is to duplicate a promising / green adset at the beginning stages of testing... This is before you attempt to scale.

Why?

Well good ol' Zuckerberg and his Narcos like empire is not a particularly fair system... Go figure right? It's variables are not created equal and sometimes split testing adsets can reveal cheaper traffic. Oh... and did I forget to mention your bidding modes should be split tested too? Fun times! I hoped you picked up my sarcasm....

There is more than one way to get into the inner cartel of the white and blue empire it seems. Each node is like a drug dealer - treat them as such. Don't trust it at face value and always look for a better offer.

Clearly I've been watching too much Netflix. I digress...

To answer your question less metaphorically.

Assume nothing. Test everything.

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today i did the test myself:
4 campaigns:
2 adset 5 dollar
2 ad set 20 dollar

Score --> 1: 1. so equal. But this is caused by the fact that my target audience is super big.

What is yours?

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How big is your target audience? What is your overall budget and risk tolerance like?

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Interesting take. Do agree with the fact that this isn't going to last forever, and I dont have forever to milk this.

I might go more aggressive with my campaign budgets.



I always found it confusing (and intriguing) when I hear people say duplicate the ads. I don't quite understand this aspect.

So an adset is doing making 30% ROI, I should just duplicate (with same ads/interest/age etc) it and run simultaneously??

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1m ish.

Budget is tight, don't have much cashflow to just dump in $500/day budget or anything, at least not as of yet.

My target audience is only around a million plus though.

I did a new test. So instead of 1 adset targeting 1m people, I created 3 adsets targeting 3 groups within that target audience. So like 200-400k each.

Ended up with way higher CPCs & negative ROI.

I'm guessing it's because the audience size per adset is too small, resulting in a negative ROI instead...guys thoughts?

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The key thing I was talking about is BEFORE scaling... Duplicating a scaled adset (or process of) is not advisable in my books. The reason why people do it is because FB's system is not a perfect bidding system and can lead to higher OR lower traffic costs.

It's rare in my experience that quickly scaling something has every worked (beyond 100% per day). As Zeno suggests, I would also recommend doing this 12am - 2am.

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Hi Relicman, thanks for your insights.

I read through Zeno's thread and was also a little confused by it. He creates 3 duplicate ads per adset.
So the point here is during the starting phase, create 3 ad identical ads per ad-set, and after some numbers come in, delete the non or low converting ads, use that specific ad that is working well, and scale up the budget on the ad-set, is that right?

I'd try doing a 30-50% daily and see how it goes. (Assuming there's positive ROI on that day). If it goes negative, I'd leave it the same since I'm on oCPM, and might take a day or 2 to optimize. If it STILL goes negative for 2-3 days, I might just bump down the budget, or change my ads. Would this be a feasible plan?

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Yeah in terms of scaling of course. This is assuming your other variables are optimised to the best of your ability / you can be bothered to test. People have that system in place (duplicating ads within adsets for example) as they have seen FB not deliver consistent results. If your mindset is that FB’s system isn’t perfect you shouldn’t be surprised to hear that

In my experience the adset itself takes a few days to settle at times. Sometimes it can be good practice to let it run for a day or so as Facebook takes time to optimise those clicks for you. This has a whole other set of variables as well (geo / competition / time of day / relevancy score etc) so there is no hard and fast rule here. Just be consistent with your own system and tweak it as you go. There are enough variables to begin with without you complicating your data by not sticking to your own system (or randomly borrowing others).

As you test more and more campaigns, you’ll start to get a good idea for what works or doesn’t based on your experience. Although people can offer some general guidelines, nothing will supersede a consistent SOP and the data itself… Well thats my opinion anyway.

Hope that helps!

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This is of the account timezone right? However this is about increasing the budget. Sometimes I am also confused on when to turn the ads 'on', pressing the unpauze button. Can someone give me some insights on this?

Also, i have been considering using daitime sheduling. But this might be silly as the cpc will be reset as well? So not recommended?

Thanks a million.

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My personal experience with dayparting was extremely negative. I found it screwed with FBs algos too much. Pausing and unpausing is also frequently a bad idea. At your current level of spend I don't think you have enough data to worry about which hours are profitable or not.

1mm ppl is a decent sized audience. You should be able to increase your budgets quite a bit without negative effects. Just do it it slowly as others have said. 50% per day sounds about right for your budget.

In the future, always create 3-6 identical ads per adset. It's definitely best practice. One or two will quickly gobble up all the impressions and you can pause the others. Facebook makes optimization decisions with very low statistical significance and one ad per adset is a bit of a crapshoot.

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I would do exactly this but with same adcopy, just different images.

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Hey,

so what was the outcome of your testing? Do you know better how to scale now? @Alfiss?

Cheers

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Bump...

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