Facebook sweepstakes- Got profitable but is it immoral? (45)
Facebook sweepstakes- Got profitable but is it immoral?
Hey guys,
After weeks of planning and taking action i was able to get around 200% ROI with Facebook, i'm advertising a PIN sweepstakes offer. Although its profitable for me i just decided to stop pushing this campaign because i'm receiving message from people saying they were charged money and they are poor and they want an iphone 6. Making money is an awesome feeling and i do want to make more money dont get me wrong, but seeing messages like this makes me feel like i am scamming people and i dont like that.
I'm confused, i really dont want to continue with this- What would you do if you were in my place?
Keep going if you're making $
Yeah, Back in the day when I was content locking I had the same feeling! But I kept doing it anyway (the feeling goes away). Damn I feel bad for admitting this but you stop caring when making $$
You have to decide for yourself how you feel about it. Now I'm making up for it with being totally WH and will try to keep everything as honest as possible 
Originally Posted by i_am_positive
Originally Posted by EpicTrends
What I have learned in life is that when it comes to money, people can rationalise anything ... indeed when there is money involved, they can rationalise some pretty awful things. In Internet marketing, this is even easier to do, since the individuals who respond to your ads seem like just abstract stats on a tracking system.
However, this is a mistake.
The truth is that the people who see your ads are human beings.
They are human beings who have families, who have hopes, who have dreams.
It is easy to just ignore this fact, or dismissively laugh off people who see our ads as suckers. But whether we want to admit it or not -- all actions that we take have consequences -- on us and on other human being's lives.
At the end of the day, you need to make their own decision about what you are ... and what you are not willing to do ... just to make buck. Ultimately it is a question about the type of person you are, the type of person you want to be, and the legacy you want to leave behind.
This is not going to be a popular opinion with several folks on this forum, but I think David Oglivy probably said it best:
Originally Posted by cmdeal
However, this is a mistake.
The truth is that the people who see your ads are human beings.
They are human beings who have families, who have hopes, who have dreams.
It is easy to just ignore this fact, or dismissively laugh off people who see our ads as suckers. But whether we want to admit it or not -- all actions that we take have consequences -- on us and on other human being's lives.
At the end of the day, you need to make their own decision about what you are ... and what you are not willing to do ... just to make buck. Ultimately it is a question about the type of person you are, the type of person you want to be, and the legacy you want to leave behind.
This is not going to be a popular opinion with several folks on this forum, but I think David Oglivy probably said it best:
Originally Posted by cmdeal
Wrote my thoughts about this here: http://prosper.tracking202.com/blog/...d-shortsighted
This is the reason i only promote email submits. Go with those you will make your money !
Funny most of the ballers in aff marketing you hear making the big bucks and profits do so by not caring.
Go to any show.. lets take asw for instance.. who is banking? Fb rebillz guys, toolbar and pay per call tech support. All verticals where they dont care about the human being on the other end thanks to really superb rois.
Its the truth.
Originally Posted by iAmAttila
Perhaps I'm wrong though so would be great to hear someone tell me otherwise. It's easy to dress the non incentive up in a nice fluffy dress but when push comes to shove there's always a little BH being implemented or something that's not REALLY of good value being promoted. Don't get me wrong I love the idea of all affiliates being WH and all the end users getting amazing installs/products, but, lets be honest it's not normally the case is it.
Originally Posted by EpicTrends
The sad reality is the masses always want stuff thats impossible.
Get rich quick
Lose weight by taking magic pill
Cure health problem easily and fast
Free ipad
Or they get scared and in fear do something so they dont have to worry. Ie antivirus offers.. app downloads..
Example
Your phone is slow! Install this and speed it up! vs this app can make your phone faster!
Which gets more installs? the dont care about the person just want them to install the damn app angle or the informative and user experience friendly angle
Originally Posted by iAmAttila
I had the same feeling so I tried to give people free AppStore/Google Play cards. The most awful decision in my life: my facebook page and facebook account were banned. WTF?
If I am more "moral" i will be kicked in the ass.
"they are poor and they want an iphone 6" They don't need an iPhone 6, they need to eat...
good job man.
being a human > being a piece of shit
There is something very wack of people that get off on deceptive shitbag marketing. I use to be one and it will literately rot your creativity and make you depressed because just like a junkie that will do all kinds of shady shit for drugs you become a dog shit marketer that will do anything for more money. you stop enjoying business and just become a dopamine addict for bigger numbers when you hit refresh. I started using my experience in affilate marketing to start a brand of good private label products and can honestly say my life is a lot more balanced. But non compliant deceptive pages will always convert better than honest ones with shitty no value offers
I find it amusing and rather hypocritical that many of those posting on here, who are part of STM's closest members, find this immoral.
Yet at every opportunity pat the OWNER on the back when he shows he made a million dollars dressing up a scammy pin submit as a game prize, across every low income country in the world?
http://stmforum.com/forum/showthread...Angle-Revealed
To the Op
Look, you either go for the big bucks or not, as Stackman done.
The choice is yours.
Originally Posted by dynamicsoul
Yet posted this: http://stmforum.com/forum/showthread...l=1#post223819
Confused?
Not having a pop or anything but it does seem some users are a bit hypocritical?
For the record, I don't give a sh*t either way tbf. I just find it funny.
Its great to make loads of money but when you start getting complaints is easy for things to escalate, especially when your using FB as your traffic source. Not sure its different with their Ad platform but I used to run some advertising/content locking in their apps, I made some good money but it didnt last very long as I shortly recieved a C&D from FB lawyers. This was promoting mobile pin submits
Not saying this will happen to you, but I think its always best to be somewhat cautious. I think I was just unlucky as other people marketing this way went on to bank well over 6-7 figures over a few months.
Why not promote them as they are.."Enter for a CHANCE to win on iPad" rather then "Enter AND win an iPad". That way people should be aware they pay for a chance to win. Do you best to make it clear to them.
Originally Posted by i_am_positive
It is what it is..
Do it or don't.
Originally Posted by dynamicsoul
The reality is big % of all CPA offers are crap or scammy, let''s just stop bullshitting around here and have it right. We all know deep down it's the truth LOL!. Yes, there's ways of doing things and ways of not doing things, but, when push comes to shove and you get paid there's normally someone that gets the shit end of the deal be it pin submits or emails.
Just my two cents!
Originally Posted by EpicTrends
but i also hard believer in Karma. she always come eventually to bite you right in the A$$.
there are many "fake" offers like sweepstakes and other verticals, but on the other hand there are a lot of REAL sweepstakes offers that users actually win so you can continue promoting these offers and keep your conscience clear.
just take in mind that most people that will sign up for these stuff to win products will be poor and would like to win but don't want to pay
Originally Posted by affiliaxeguy
but i also hard believer in Karma. she always come eventually to bite you right in the A$$.
there are many "fake" offers like sweepstakes and other verticals, but on the other hand there are a lot of REAL sweepstakes offers that users actually win so you can continue promoting these offers and keep your conscience clear.
just take in mind that most people that will sign up for these stuff to win products will be poor and would like to win but don't want to pay
Originally Posted by affiliaxeguy
but i also hard believer in Karma. she always come eventually to bite you right in the A$$.
there are many "fake" offers like sweepstakes and other verticals, but on the other hand there are a lot of REAL sweepstakes offers that users actually win so you can continue promoting these offers and keep your conscience clear.
just take in mind that most people that will sign up for these stuff to win products will be poor and would like to win but don't want to pay
You believe in Karma and think it's wrong but work/own a network where you earn your living from pushing those offers.
Either do it or don't. Sheesh.
I'm no saint, but, then I don't pretend to be one. That's about all I have to add to this subject now, I said my piece!
As I said earlier, I don't really give a sh*t if people do what they do.. Just bugs me when they get on a moral high horse.
I've pushed stuff I believe was not of value to the end user, a fair bit. I've used landers / banners that were, for the most part, misleading (although at least trying to keep within advertisers terms).. Do I lose sleep?
No. I made my choice to do what I did.
If it bothers you so much, and you make a profit, then donate generously to a Childrens charity. Maybe that will keep "karma" from biting your ass.
At the end of the day everyone should draw their line what they are comfortable promoting and what not.
It's a personal choice and boils down to personal beliefs.
For me, that line was promoting shady male enhancement products and never crossed it even though it could have been very profitable.
It's a dirty industry.
I can count on one hand the number of campaigns that I actually felt good about running.
If you gathered a room full of the biggest CPA affiliates, it's pretty unlikely you'd find many who are willing to swear on oath that everything they run would make their kids proud. That's just the way the industry is.
This is also a very young industry.
It attracts people who are not particularly risk-averse, and in some cases those with an almighty case of tunnel vision for the $$$.
Do what you have to do, but have an exit plan in mind.
One that doesn't involve CPA affiliate marketing.
Pin submits, toolbars, rebills, sweepstakes with +10 (hidden) newsletter sign ups are all a bit 'dirty' if you think about it but at the end of the day 1) they are not illegal 2) the user decides for himself to opt-in and can always opt-out.
There's worse things in life that a company can do to users/consumers. Think about cigarettes, medical drugs, alcohol, red bull, etc. These things are way less healthy than that subscription or sign up you 'sold' to a certain user x,y,z.
As long as you're complying with the Law and you're making money, keep on going and scale it up.
This isn't exclusive to AM. Business will always be synonymous with a slice of shade. Either you run in the rat wheel or you make them for others. I'll always choose the latter and give the herd what they want.
One of my favourite quotes:
A person cannot maintain any standard of morals when they have no ordinary means of living.
— Kenkò Hoshi, 14th century Japanese Buddhist spiritual leader
@OP: It seems to me, you aren't on a level yet to consider any moral issues. Be amoral. Keep stacking that money. There will be time in the future then you might consider returning to this question but it is not now.
I think you need to be aggressive to do well in the game of life. Make as much money as you legally can for you and your family. Build your castle. Get ahead.
Like Polar Bacon said, this shit is every where. Think about attorneys who lure you in with false hope, who charge extraordinary fees, probably over bill, and try to milk you. The whole medical insurance industry is a rip off. Car insurance companies will F you. The entire fast food industry, junk food, etc is literally a silent epidemic. Sugar is more addicting than cocaine and cereal marketed to children is almost legally considered candy, and with an obesity epidemic on the rise, they are literally destroying lives of millions.
If someone signs up for a pin submit, they can cancel, possibly get a refund, and be smarter not to do it next time.
The way I see it, don't be afraid to aggressively run a pin submit.
Exact my situation. That's AM.
great attitude mate,
I hope this can help you a bit
stmforum.com/forum/showthread.php?25381-4-49-ctr-banner-that-isn-t-a-generic-download-now-button
cheers,
Keep going mate, there's absolutely nothing immoral about it
- If you're not doing it, someone else will do it
- the user has a free choice to opt-in (no one is forcing him to convert)
- the user can always opt-out at any given moment
- as long as your ad is not misleading and you are informing the user of the true nature of the campaign/deal you're good
- the user still gets a service (be it shitty) for the money he's paying (eg free ringtones every week or whatever)
- there are things in life that are far worse (cigarettes, alcohol, mcdonalds, etc); you're a Saint with capital S compared to these killer companies
Amazing thread!
Those moral questions are IMPORTANT because we all have to deal with them at some point or another when doing AM.
Better yet to pick a side rather then be in the middle.
My thoughts -
Well IT IS, VERY UGLY industry, which relies on plausible deniability, deceptions and lies.
Mm not surprised at all when i see people bending their "little believies" over big money (including myself), because if you look around you: these type of deceptions, lies, selling-dreams, and bullshit are everywhere, and the invisible hand of money speaks.
Actually, alot of peope working in ordinary and legit jobs are doing what we do, but for other people, and under innocent 'hats'.
Like some of you have mentioned, the white-collar companies which surrounds us (Textil and clothing industry, binary options, amazon, apple, Coca-fucking-cola -http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/coca-cola-paying-diet-experts-to-counter-obesity-claims-im-not-surprised-what-i-saw-there-horrified-a6688441.html, Military Industry, Drugs Industry, Fuel Giants, Goverments and many more) are stealing our money along with the govts, and encouraging western-slavery on a global scale using mass-media.
All of the above are legal companies, yet they are shitting all over people.
and how about RELIGION?
the biggest scammer of all time.
the award-winning bullshitter since the begining of humanity.
Want to sell an unrealistic dream to a poor, stupid man?
Fuck affiliate-marketing, i'll go ask some preachers how to do it better, or maybe some real-estate agents.
And the list goes on. My point?
I think that 'black' or even 'gray' type of AMing is wrong, but its not as nearly worse as so many things around us.
C'mon now, what's the worse you did to an individual by AM? charged him 50$? 100$?
I dont think it's that horrible.
Personally, after being independent for 2 years (although new in AM) people have screwed me over for way more than that, and lied to me and actually tricked me, just because i was unexperienced at that time.
I took it as a lesson everytime i did something stupid with my money, and never did it again.
EDIT: sry for the bump. didnt noticed last comment date
After 4 days of running my very first successful campaign, jumped into this thread and my conscience kicked in.. I was so focused on data and making it work that I didn't really thought on what happens to people.
Just to be clear:
- I don't really care if a product value is $0 and I sell it for $1000. The value of a product in my opinion might be different for someone else, and they payed by their own free choice.
- I don't care if I'm selling MacDonalds and know it's not that healthy, I eat macdonalds every once in a while and I know it's not healthy.
- I don't care if they thought they were going to WIN a product by leaving the email. (What happens after they actually give the email it's not my responsibility anymore)
- I don't care if I have website with huge traffic and I sell Pops, I know someone will be promoting eventually PIN Submits, but that's out of my control.
You can only control things until certain point..
What I do care is DIRECTLY promoting something that could do real damage financially speaking in short term without they knowing at all. (PIN Submit)
Right now I don't even know if this scenario is true, do you know what exactly happens? When do they find they're being billed? Is it too late when they find it or they usually notice right after?
When are they gonna be aware? E.g. if you have prepaid sim cards, I guess that's pretty easy to check, but if you're billed monthly, then only in end of the month?
I still would not care if the value was average-low because it would be a lesson for the user, but if is something that gonna turn their lifes into hell, then yes I do care.
Lets take it back to the basis - Survival of the fittest. *attenborough-mode*
Nature is all about surviving (similar to our world, getting money to pay the bills - and big cars). You got the smart animals (good angle creators) like a fox or a chimpansee. Finding ways to get their food (for us money) in an efficient way.
You got the big ones, like a whale. Not per se stupid, but more focussing on volume with a big mouth swallowing everything and take some bad food in account and trying to filter it.
After that you got the vultures. Those miserable sneaky bastards spying on your moves and take the little pieces out of it to survive.
The ultimate combo is SMART and BIG (and maybe a bit sneaky) ofcourse, those are the exceptions in AM.
Unfortunately the weak (our target audience) must pay the bill for all this, for us hunters to survive.
And no, I didn't smoke this morning, it's just life man. 
Only problem (and difference between humans and animals) WE HUMANS added to our sophisticated system EMOTION and COMPASSION. Which makes us weak and vulnerable, and that, is dangerous my fellow AM'ers.
Originally Posted by asknopt
your are good man, i have the same feeling with you
I've been thinking about this A LOT since I got into Facebook a couple of weeks ago. The problem with Facebook is that you're far more acutely aware of the fact that the users are living, breathing entities. This brings the moral question to the forefront of your mind very quickly if you spend time reading the comments and messages. That's why I stopped reading them completely.
The way I see it now is as follows:
You can either be a wolf or a sheep. Sheep slave away in 9 to 5 jobs, longing for the weekend, watching their lives tick away. Wolves find another way that usually involves feeding off the sheep. If you're on this board, you've chosen not to be a sheep. Being a wolf isn't safe and comfortable and often requires you to sacrifice parts of yourself. Wolves aren't 'nice'. Accept it. Hunt aggressively and enjoy the rewards.
The way the world works now, at least in the part where we have democracy - everyone has a vote, even the most stupid person has the same vote as I do. There are parties who target just this stupid audience, promise them the heaven and moon, they get elected and then fuckup the economy, steal the public money, adopt laws that make my very own life more complicated. So these stupid people are causing DIRECT harm to me and my family on a DAILY basis.
There is nothing I can do about it, just accept it, because such is the law. I'm not happy about it, it costs me money because taxes are higher than they should be. It poses direct threat to my life and the lives of my kids, because the health care is not what it should be... All this because of stupid people who elect thieves over and over again - this has been the case in my country for many years now and it's like a never ending cycle. So if these stupid people can cause harm to me and make my life more complicated, I don't see any problem in getting some cash from them through shady, BUT still LEGAL affiliate offers. Yes, I decided to be the wolf too
Originally Posted by matuloo
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