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Adult website network (22)

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Hello
I want to start a few adult sites and trying to figure out the best way to get content to them. Back in the days I read a post series
http://www.jayknowscash.com/2014/07/...raffic-part-1/

on how to go about it. I was wondering if anyone has tried creating his own tube network and what tools did he use to create it, to buy content etc.

Your feedback is much appreciated

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Hello, I did a quick eye-scan of the linked article, so here are my views :

mechbunny - its considered the best script for tubes, but its also pretty pricey, at least it used to be. But at least you know there is still a real team behind it that isnt goign anywhere anytime soon. I know the owner personally, hes a cool dude.

content : buying content for a new tube is bullshit. But its also true nobody will upload anything to it while its new, all the big tubes started by stealing content, uploading it themselves, trying to pretent it was the users so they are covered by the law.

Pretty much any tube starts with scrapped content, and you would have to do that too. Then you can use sponsor content, sponsors is how we people in adult call the paysite owners and their affiliate programs. Pretty much any paysite will give you plenty of free videos to use on a tube, if you can actually drive them some sales, they will even give you members area access and you can take the videos you like and upload to your tube - not whole scenes obviously, rather just short 3-5 mins sequences. Expect to be required to put their banners on the pages with their videos obviously.

It all comes down to what you can offer to them, bigger paysite programs have employees who directly upload their videos to tubes they partnered up with. Some will at least send you fresh videos every so often via email.

So getting a tube operational and flooded with content isnt a problem. The problem will be getting the traffic.

The main source of income for a tube are ad networks like exoclick, ero advertising etc... As you can guess, you need massive traffic to make some decent coin.

You have basically 3 options to get traffic :

1. buy it. This is called feeding a tube and thats what the cheapest crap traffic is for. You can get it at skimmed traffic brokers, there are several, for example trafficholder comes to my mind. This traffic is usually low quality and wont make you enough from the network ads to cover the price. You will actually be lucky if it makes back about 10-20% of what you paid for it.
2. trade it. You will be trading traffic with other tubes, thats where the feeder traffic comes in handy and thats why you actually have to buy it at the begining in case you even consider trading traffic. Trading traffic will bring you some fresh eyes so you have more eyes to show the ads to. You still wont be able to make any profit tho, but the % will go up a bit again.
3. search engines. This is where your tube will actually start to grow and make some profit, or go down the drain. You will not make any money and your tube will die in case you are not able to get a decent % of SE traffic.

The reason people do tube networks is that they need to take advantage of all 3 options I mentioned. So you build a network of 100 tubes, you buy a bit of feeder for each of them, then you start trading traffic between them and if all works fine, all of them will start getting some SE traffic, thats the point where you turn of the feeder. So now you have a network of 100 sites, all getting some SE traffic, you send the people from one site to another and they are exposed to ads on each of them - which dramatically increases the ad impressions.

It sounds fucking easy in theory, and it also used to be so easy actually, but the time is gone. The hard part is getting the SE traffic. If you can do it tho, you can pretty quickly build an empire of tube sites serving millions of ad impressions per day. Just remember, this is a house made of cards and one google update can wipe the network out completely within a day or two.

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Matuloo has it spot on. If you need an introduction to Mech Bunny, let me know. If you talk to some of the tube video submission software owners, they will put your tube into their databases for their users who upload content, you'll be getting hundreds of videos per day before you know it.

Traffic is your biggest issue, what will your tube have that PORN.com, Pornhub.com, Xvideos.com doesn't that will get their users to come to yours instead? Small tube sites can still do very well but you need an advantage, be it technology wise or better content. Give your site an edge to keep it growing, work on all aspects of traffic building. Once you have some SE traffic, start trading to grow it then feed it with some quality traffic too.

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Thanks for the feedback matuloo and Ross (I assume it's you Ross (: ), I actually talked to Konard at Mechbunny today, they are about to come out with a responisve template for their script and it looks good. Price actually went down , i rememeber it used to be $1000 now it's $699.
One moniteztion option you didn't mention is CPA,CPS offers.
Getting the traffic is easy, making the arbitrage is the trick. A good way to start is focusing on a Geo or a niche in my opinion.
I don't ever think about getting organic traffic, if I do great, but I never rely on it.

I'll keep you posted on the progress.

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Sorry but you are wrong.

The traffic will not come from one GEO, you will get visitors from every part of the planet. You might buy only one GEO to feed your tube, but how do you want to trade just one GEO with other tubes? Using CPA dating offers would be an option only if your traffic comes from a few GEOs, once it starts to come from all over the world, you have a problem. Now to make sure we understand each other. Of course you can monetize global traffic with dating offers for example, but you need some volume for it, Im talking at least couple thousands of visitors per day per GEO. Even then its a bitch to optimize, you will have several banner spots, you need to rotate offers so the visitors dont see the same all the time ... etc, it simply easier to let the ad-network worry about selling the traffic and you worry about getting it. Why do you think sites like xhamster, porn.com, xvideos, pornhub ... why do they sell the spots instead of monetizing them themselves, do you think they dont know about dating offers?

Now the CPS offers - keep one thing in mind, youre trying to sell something to people who accept dozens of ads, popunders and shitty navigation just to be able to watch old porn in low quality for free. These people are not buyers and certainly not buyers of anything porn related So dont even think about trying to sell them porn memberships, not even cams anymore if you are looking for a good ROI. Tubes screwed the whole adult industry as they created a ton of non-buying surfers. The only few things that still work on tubes is dating, some dick pills, some bizopps and cams to some extent.But be prepared for pretty shitty results anyways.

Im sorry do disappoint you, but you actually need to think about getting organic traffic, as that is exactly the type of traffic that makes the difference between a shitty worthless tube and a tube that can actually make at least some money. You have 0 chance of profit from a tube that will only depend on bought and traded traffic. The traffic and hosting cost will kill you.

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I can't agree more with matuloo, starting a porn tubes network without a search engine traffic strategy is not a good idea at all.

I am in this business, I've tubes with more than half a million visitors per day, all search engine traffic. Trade traffic will make impressions, but it will not make money (actually it will, but not for you...).

I suggest that when you get some decent volume you contact Advidi as they have an iframe ad system where they manage all you campaigns for all geos. That's work exactly like Exoclick (and cie), but you are paid by CPA not CPM.

I've remplace all my Exoclick ads by Advidi iframe and that make me a 4 times bump in revenues.

Good luck for your project !

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this post caught my attention. thank you for starting the thread and big ty for matuloo and givizator for chiming in. I am inerested in creating a tube site to start and hopefully add more as I go. I understand scraping other tube videos is the way to go to start but I want to build a legit business so I dont mind shelling out some $ upfront to build it properly. which content providers would you guys suggest? also I like mechbunny and thats what I will go with.

another question is in regards to hosting. which host you prefer? do you use cdn for your tube site(s)? maybe a host with cdn? how much bandwidth is used on a half a million users a month? is there a way to buy content and have the content delivered from the content provider to save on bandwidth and cdn requirement on my host end.

I like the idea of advidi so that covers the monitization end. what about maintenance side? do you do all maintenance yourself or have a VA? I would like to hire a VA for this to manage it. what kind of skills would be necessary besides typical webmaster stuff? thank you,

farid

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I only use ripped videos, so I cannot answer this one.
Also, I use my own CMS as I have thousands of tubes.

For hosting I use OVH.com because :
- Their offers are low cost compare to the competition
- You can have a new server (physical, no virtual) in 60 seconds
- Each server gives you 2 To of space to store the videos
- Each server gives you 500 Mbps unlimited bandwidth
- Each server gives you 64 IPs
- They have datacenters on Europe and America

I do not use any CDN, I've try the amazon CloudFront, but the cost was really high.
Actually I have 10 servers at $100 a month at OVH, so 10x500Mbps of bandwidth and it cover all my need plus room to grow.
If I need more, I just add a new $100 server and so on.

My system is a really custom one. All the maintenance is done by bots.
Actually, I can work only 2h a month on it if I want and everything will continue to work fine.

But their is something else to understand :

1 - You can build one massive tube (like pornhub), looking to add great content, great user experience and people who bookmark your website and came again and again. You'll rank on the top keywords in search engine. You'll need a lot of budget to launch (for years) and patience.

2 - You can build several little tubes, dedicated to get traffic from search engines with ripped content, basic user experience and no bookmark at all. You will rank on long tail keywords only. You'll need a low budget to start, but a lot of automatisation to setup.

I'm in the second case. So I can only give advices for that one if you have specific questions, ask them

Bye

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You need to realize one thing in terms of content, you are competing against sites like xhamster, xvideos ... giants that you simply cannot beat in terms of content, they have it all, stolen, ripped, user uploaded ... from every studio out there. I remember an experiment from a porn studio, not sure which one it was tho, they wanted to battle the illegal tubes full of stolen content by using HQ vids from their own production. So they created a HD tube, uploaded all of their content in perfect quality, updated it regularly ... and they failed. Tubes are about quantity, not quality. So if you think you can build a quality tube, with quality content and get a competitive edge this way, well you are wrong

Buying content for a tube is a waste of money. You need 1000s of videos for a tube site, standard adult movie has 4-6 scenes, even if you cut them into 5 minute clips, thats only maybe 30 clips from a movie. Are you ready to buy 500 DVDs with rights? This simply isnt the way to go. Needless to say that whatever you upload to your tube, will be stolen very fast and uploaded to all the other tubes too, so its a total waste of money. If you still decide to buy content for a tube, go for some bulk deals of older movies, try to look for tube ready content, chopped into scenes already. You will get a link to download the content, the you will need to upload it to your tube on your own. BTW : to even stand a chance to get some SE traffic, you should think about making custom scene titles, or at least generate them somehow.

As for BW requirements, this depends on how high quality you want to use. Im not sure about the current stats, but last time I checked, the average number per user was to watch about 1-2 minutes of video, so figure out how much data that is and multiply by the expected number of daily visits There are solutions to lower the BW, preventing the player from buffering too much etc, be sure to pick a host experienced with hosting tubes so they can set this up for you.

The advidi monetization tool is an option for sure, but its not perfect either. They can monetize some GEOs very well, but some not so well. As always, you need to compare what you earn where. Exoclick will probably make you the most from all ad networks, ero-advertising usually comes close to it, but you need to test it. Then you can run the advidi iframe and compare the results. To maximize the results, you should use a combination, one ad network in some spots, another ad network in another spot, advidi in some of them etc..

Maintenance : tubes are low margin biz, to make a lot of money, you need a shitload of traffic. Until you have it, there is no place to hire anyone. You need to start on your own, then once the ball starts rolling, you can emply a VA to help you.

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givizator and matuloo, you guys dropped solid gold info on me here. thank you. looks like I have to go back to the whiteboard for some brainstorming on this one.

KK

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I've been in adult business for almost 10 years. People keep saying things have changed, there is no easy money in tubes and they are mostly likely right.

Before I start pointing out, let me say I currently hold 3.000.000 daily impressions across my adult projects. I speak from my own experience.

When Youporn, Xvideos and Mindgeek/Manwin started building their site(s), there were tons of free traffic available for them. It helped them built their empire for free.

These days you have about 3 options left.

The optional way:
- pick a niche or go with general amateur grey content
- buy exclusive or rare content
- buy full Mechbunny or KVS license, I prefer this
- hire a writer
- hire a VA you will need for content approval and on-site work
- go with cdn or multiple storage servers you will most likely need
- set a proper mp4 encoding that will allow you cross-device streaming and save you storage/bandwidth
- buy traffic (by now you know where)
- trade traffic with manually approved actions
- get big enough and ask for a custom partner content

The wrong way:
- generic category
- WordPress
- scrape or use embed video content along with titles
- hope that Google will like it
- use a popunder or mobile redirect (plugursh)
- upload your watermarked videos to the biggest tubes and hope for traffic, this method is so 2005

They right way:
- don't start it
- tweak your CPA pre-landers and banners, make money

ps: I hope you go with the right way

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Some seriously good info in here. Very interesting read!

I've flirted with the idea of going down this road in the past, but never did - for the reasons given. Extreme competition + pretty lawless actions from the guys at the very top of the pyramid, making it exponentially harder for a guy at the bottom to get traction, even if he goes 100% black hat.

I think there's value in building a network of adult sites, but not of the tube variety (unless you overcome the odds already mentioned).

There are other types of adult sites that require less maintenance, have less competition, and command more valuable traffic.

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Im in the adult bis even a bit longer than you, started in 1998 or 9 I still own dozens of sites, there are also small tubes in the mix.

Its true that I have seen people claiming the sky is falling and adult is done, ever since I entered the industry and it never happened. But its also true that the tubes have hurt the adult biz the most. I have seen the rise of picposts, then tgps, then mgps and then finally the tubes, along with other site types, and whatever way I look at it, tubes were the only ones that seriously fucked the adult industry. Never before have I seen so many people leave adult, sponsor programs closing shop etc ... tubes removed the need to join porn paysites for a dramatic part of the surfers.

Tubes are surely a way of making money, its just needed to reach really high traffic levels and google love is mandatory - this is where it breaks or lives in my experience. Just like you said, it needs custom titles to stand some chance at least. Custom clips from sponsors could help too of course.

One way or another, Im not sure I would try to build a tube network myself anymore. There is too big chance for it to fail, so Id rather invest my time and resources elsewhere.

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@matuloo

Respect

Please don't get me wrong, I am not saying adult is done. It's alive.

Many people here at STM did bank and still do because of adult tubes.

I only say starting your own tube site from scratch isn't what I would recommend people at STM. I think we agree with this.

Instead of building up your own rather use its power (traffic) and route it to proper CPA offers.

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Of course the traffic will come from all over, but that doesn't mean you can't build a tube dedicated to a Geo (by the way a Geo doesn't have to be a specific country, if you do one in the spanish langugae for example you still have a lot of potential visitors )
Regarding monitezation there are simple solutions starting from you own ad server, ad networks like EXo, plug rush,bitter strawberry ,crak revenue, they will rotate your traffic by GEO, device, etc. Just like you said. I didn't mean I would do it manually.

"Now the CPS offers - keep one thing in mind, youre trying to sell something to people who accept dozens of ads, popunders and shitty navigation just to be able to watch old porn in low quality for free. These people are not buyers and certainly not buyers of anything porn related So dont even think about trying to sell them porn memberships, not even cams anymore if you are looking for a good ROI. "
How are these people different from any other people you are trying to sell anything to?How do you determine they are not buyers of anything?

I personally don't know how you get organic traffic to adult sites, do you? You have to buy traffic initially to get some traction and I assume that at some point you will start seeing organic traffic coming in-I have a tube site which I only send traffic to dedicated landing pages and I see organic traffic there so that is why I am saying this.

At the end of the day it is an arbitrage game, it's very hard, but that only means that there is money to be made there.

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We obviously misunderstood each other a little bit

I pretty much agree with all you said in your first post, just wanted to shell in a bit with what people used to say all the time I also agree its a better idea to use the traffic on tubes instead of trying to build it up as its a complicated and time consuming process.

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1. no Im sorry but you cannot really build a GEO tube other than doing it in its native language and depend on SEO traffic, as soon as you start to trade etc, you will get mixed traffic. Sure, you can have a tube with high % of traffic from spanish speaking countries, but its not gonna be a true GEO tube, and you will need different CPA offers for the different countries even thou they will all be spanish speaking.

2. sure, I know how to get organic traffic to adult sites, I still have plenty of them, and the sites with organic traffic are the only ones making me some reasonable money. The problem is, when it was pretty easy couple years ago, now its not that easy anymore. Google gives huge preference to large tubes so youre already starting with a massive disadvantage. Not saying, it cant be done, its just way harder than it used to be.

3. how do I determine they are not buyers? Im really gonna simplify it a lot for the sake of easy understanding, so take the numbers with a grain of salt : Say you have a tube with 100 000 daily ad impressions. We all know the first impressions are usually the more valuable. When buying traffic, thats the part of the impressions you want. Lets say only 30 000 of the impressions can be effectively monetized via CPA offers. You can profit on them too as the site owner. The problem is, what about the rest of the impressions? You can try to monetize them with CPA offers, but the results will be horrible. So the overall average income per impressions will go down a lot. Or you can sell ALL the impressions to an ad network that will eventually find a buyer for it, some of the buyers will turn some ROI on it but the important part is, that there are buyers who are loosing on it, but they are still buying it - these might be new people trying to break into the game or someone testing it and stopping the campaign after they see the results. So in the end, you will receive more for the impressions than they are actually worth. See what I mean here? As an owner of a site with shitty traffic (and tubes have shitty traffic), sometimes you should focus on getting more of that shit, than trying to monetize it on your own. Let the traffic buyers have the fun, take the losses and scratch their heads about what went wrong.

The money is there to be made for sure, Im just trying to show you its not easy at all.

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Even if I bank only from adult tubes, 100% SEO, I will also not advice someone to start these business today.
I can still do this because I've spend years building the technology to make and manage porn tubes by bots.

If I was just starting now, I will probably go to classic Media Buying as I think it's an easier path to walk to.

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I also started in adult in 1998 (matuloo and Urosino maybe we know each other already under other nicknames or from old icq days etc), ran free sites, then evolved into TGPs and ended owning one of the biggest one around in the teen niche.

Then missed the early tubes wave as I wanted to remain honest, not stealing videos like all the known big tubes did at first (yeah my "stupid" honesty has always been against my pocket) and then had to adapt and ended having some decent size tubes all created buying content (yeah stupid honesty again) and traffic while working hard on SEO, making most of money selling my traffic/ad space to ad networks and also working directly with some sponsors on revshare and pps.

Then it came mobile, I saw the chance and became one of the first mobile adult media buyers, while neglecting my tubes to the point that they died slowly, but I didn't really care anymore. After 10+ years of being an adult webmaster, I decided I enjoyed way more being a media buyer for the next years.

Then 3 years ago, I closed the loop becoming part owner in an mobile adult affiliate network.

Back to the question, I wouldn't ever create a new tube network anymore even having the knowledge, experience, cash and contacts, the easy days are gone.

Now you need huge cash upfront to feed the tubes with traffic, huge patience to wait for Google love and of course knowing how to get it, huge cash again to pay your hosting bills as you grow, etc. Your revenue will be mainly cpm networks, like TrafficForce or Exoclick, that do a really good job, but that for new tubes, with low quality feeder traffic, won't make you a lot of money.

At the end you need good cash and patience, so you better spend that money on buying traffic but instead of to feed tube sites, to send that traffic to adult mobile or desktop offers. The only issue and probably what worries you, is that being a media buyer, you don't build your own "property" as you do with your own site, so you always need to keep guessing when and what will be the new wave, to jump over it at the right time and keep doing media buys for it, but that dynamism is also what most of people in this forum love as a way of life

The middle class of affiliate webmasters is dead, now either you are one of the big guys and make good money, or one of the small guys with little costs and make some beer money.

The new adult affiliate is for sure the media buyer, and I'm sure both the other CPA/CPL networks and the Traffic networks will agree with me that those are their best clients/affiliates right now.

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Agree with this point. Media buyers dominate adult niche in AM these days.

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I think we actually met last fall in Prague on the TES summit, but never followed up on skype, lets do it now, already sent you a message

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Some great insights here. I actually read & thought the very thing as orisin1 after reading Jays blog. But I couldn't see how one could compete creating an Adult Tube today on a budget. Folks way more informed than me have pretty much explained why.

That said the Tube model got me thinking about creating a different style of Tube site - but applying it to other niches....MMA. I actually had an idea of doing this for old school boyband content with a view to suckering women in their 30s & 40s to part with some pennies.....

That or abitrage it with AdSense. Maybe not the cleverest idea but I would be curious if any folks on here think the Tube model could be re-purposed for other verticals.

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