How I got sued for $5,000 for doing AM (56)

So I started AM in October of 2014. I stumbled into actually. For the last 4 or so years I was an SEO guy and thought it was nice making a few hundred dollars every month. I think the most I ever made was around $1k a month then Google slapped all my money sites and now I make around...$250- 350 a month.

So during the time, sites like Viral Nova, BoredPanda, Distractify were all the rage in SEO. I'm sure you've seen them on your FB Newsfeed:

She thought she was hot...until she saw this!

Interesting story, i smell a set up somewhere, maybe the affiliate company is from Korea or had some korean contact to make u scared ? Korea is 75 million people its not a small population. And why can't you take chinese woman would that not match better in Korea than white woman .
Your pretty unlucky to get caught without a set up..

The CPA company was a Korean company. Also don't want to make any offended but Korean girls are hotter and it's very easy for us to tell the difference between the two. So CTR wouldn't have been that high...but I didn't test it

Cool story bro, thanks for sharing
Best part was when her mom got involved. They could also work as first class con artists. Going from 3k to 1,5k back to 3k and up to 5k, perfect
How did they find out about you? Did the CPA company tell them? Not cool.

Yeah the only way she would know my number is if the CPA company told her. I'm sure it was because she was threatening to go to Court over this.

The thing is, my friends and the lawyer also said that this could of been a con. But if she actually did file to go to Court and the detectives saw all the ads that I was running using a bunch of 'hot girls' then I could of been in even bigger trouble

That was definietly a checkmate :-/
But as globejohan said: chinese girls. Or maybe japanese, they look more korean.

Guys... I know its hard for you to tell the difference between Koreans, Chinese and Japanese but its very obvious to us.

I can't tell the difference between a Northern, Western, Eastern and Southern European

... good to know that you have the same problem

Crazy story!!! :-)))

Reminds me the one when they guy find himself on a porn website banner (there is a thread somewhere about that)

Take from now!

yeah that would suck. I honestly did think it was ok to use people's pictures without their permission. I definitely learned the hard way.

One of my friends put it this way:

If someone used your picture advertising penis enlargement pills, you would be pissed off.

So in that way, I can see why this girl was angry...

Wait a second... where did the girl get your number?

Originally Posted by kepe95

Wait a second... where did the girl get your number?

You could of made some better decisions in regards to the campaign.

But the thing that stuck out to me most here is how you dealt with the legal complaint. You put yourself in a dangerous position trying to brush things under the carpet yourself. Especially when you are talking to them so openly about everything. It's seems as though they took advantage of that.

Talk to a lawyer if in doubt. You could of probably of saved a lot of money.

Originally Posted by Mr Green

You could of made some better decisions in regards to the campaign.

But the thing that stuck out to me most here is how you dealt with the legal complaint. You put yourself in a dangerous position trying to brush things under the carpet yourself. Especially when you are talking to them so openly about everything. It's seems as though they took advantage of that.

Talk to a lawyer if in doubt. You could of probably of saved a lot of money.

Every nation trying to claim they are homogeniouse, and you can see the difference between nations people but when you really look into it its a lot of diversity everwhere, I can go to south and north and east you can see people have slightly different looks , Sweden the government has recognised that the Swedish people is made up of 5 different people . 1. Roma (Eearly indian nomads + 1000 years ago , or aka gypsys today ) , 2. Finns (finns - hungarians , 3. Sams ( some native population similar to eskimos) , 4. Tornedals lanningar ( some nomad people aswell from russia ) , 5 . Jews. And the german, netherlands, belgium people who came from south later for better life and opportunity . All of us is a bunch of a mix after all .

http://www.lansstyrelsen.se/stockhol...s/default.aspx

Only people i personaly have come across is somehow homogeneous in look is somalians , they have some special look across 90 % of the population

Sounds like a con job to me. A CPA network giving your contact details to a third party without a court order? Everything is just way too fishy. I personally wouldn't pay shit.

This was definitely a pretty rough spot to find yourself in that no other affiliate would ever hope to encounter themselves.

The guilt of knowing (or discovering in your case) what you had been doing was not legal meant you kind of held yourself over a barrel which played into the other parties hands enormously.

Originally Posted by nickster

Sounds like a con job to me. A CPA network giving your contact details to a third party without a court order? Everything is just way too fishy. I personally wouldn't pay shit.

Really, don't use pictures of people without their permission.

I know a lot of affiliates do this, but it really is not that cool.

Put yourself in these people's shoes. These are real people, real human beings. And you are potentially subjecting them to a lifetime of humiliation, shame and even bullying ... especially if it is for something like adult dating or plastic surgery.

If something like this happened to my wife, I can definitely say with no hesitation whatsoever that I would track the advertiser down and press criminal charges and not stop until that person was completely ruined with a lifetime criminal record.

Yeah agree.. with cmdeal.

A good few years back my sister in law had her FB profile image stolen and ran in an advert on bebo.. her daughter (my neice who was 15) seen it and said , Mum you're on this advert.. lol

She was shocked, but just made her profile private.

Maybe you should ask for a spoon pic (or similar ) before paying the $5k and make damn sure that its not a con job. If the person in the pic doesn't match up then screw them.

U can buy packs of pics with licenses on gfy.com fyi .. i bought like 500 diff with full licenses for 200 dollars.

In Korea, the laws are different and I don't know them but I'm sure the CPA company gave my number to avoid going to court over this. But I was "guilty", the lawyers said I was "guilty", the judges my friend asked all said I was "guilty", the CPA company knew I was "guilty" and it was my mistake...albeit naive.

Anyways I learned my lesson. For some strange thing, this situation wanted me to learn more about AM and make my money back. So after lead gen on Facebook, I tried doing it again using normal ads (not of people) but my CPC was so high that I never made +ROI. Then I did PPV & PPC (not successful) but now I'm in Mobile and my last few days have been + ROI

Originally Posted by iAmAttila

U can buy packs of pics with licenses on gfy.com fyi .. i bought like 500 diff with full licenses for 200 dollars.

But guilty or not you need someone with an actual claim to sue you. If this woman actually is one of the women in the pictures then yeah pay her, but I'd definitely get it fully confirmed first.

Also the police aren't going to waste their time trying to find people to sue you so someone informing them probably wont have any consequences. If its not criminal and no one has made a real criminal complaint then I doubt you have anything to worry about.

I am not a lawyer, but just because you did something wrong and that you could be liable for does not mean you should paid someone just because they say they have a claim. Please get proof before you pay her.

Really just consider this an inexpensive lesson learned and move on.

You should consider yourself lucky that it wasn't the daughter of some chaebol CEO. Then your life, your parents life, and your parents' family's life would have been completely ruined. It would have been the worst hell you can ever imagine.

Many of these posters mean well, but seriously, many of them have absolutely no idea how things work in Korea, and beside, you really should not take legal advice from a forum.

You actually got off really cheap.

cmdeal, sounds like you know alittle about Korea?

$5k was not inexpensive...actually it was quite expensive but I did learn a lesson.

One thing I didnt mention was that after talking to the lawyer I apparently broke about 3-4 different laws. The max. penalty being around $20k - $30k but the lawyer told me that because I used her face and not a naked picture of her or even adding her face to a naked body that because I'm guilty I would pay around $3k max but after lawyer fees, court dates and stuff the total would double.

cmdeal has some very good points and you should follow them in the future. But if you can get out of this..why not, here's my thought:
1. Without clear evidence it's complicated to prove it was you. You can make those ads go away (just edit the add and put another picture). In case of an investigation your ads don't have that girls' picture on them. There's no way to see the change history of ads on Facebook.
2. Since you already admitted you used pictures without approval but didn't admit you used her picture (she didn't sent you one) you have to think of an excuse (legal excuse) on the other pictures. Since I don't know the law there, I'm sure a lawyer can think of a good explanation. Maybe you can still remain "guilty" but don't face any charges if there's no official complaint from those persons. (really need to check with a lawyer to see if it works this way)
3. If case 2 applies, use some foreign pictures to replace yours (in case they really start looking for the girls to convince them to press charges...it gets too complicated for them)

You should ask the lawyers how to get you out of this and not if you're guilty or not, you already know the answer. They are there to bend the law and find loopholes to help you...like affiliate marketers

Or if $5k is not that much for you..just pay and don't waste your time. But get everything in writing so you won't have any more surprises in the future (maybe you'll get a call from her angry aunt). (Plus you'll get the chance to see their prof and make sure they aren't just scamming with you, because it seems a little of a too much coincidence and smells fishy)

Edit: I posted before seeing your previous replay...you covered some of the aspects I assumed here. I guess at least settle in writing and make sure you weren't scammed.

Lesson learned, don't use girls pictures without permission, lol

Besides all of this, it's great that you're still hungry and determined to succeed in this game.

You're not the only one who's been screwed over and lost a ton of money for some mistakes you make along the way. Mr Green got screwed over by his own business partners for thousands before going on to have the success that he now has.

This might be a blessing in disguise for you. Keep at it mate.

Backslash,

Yea there was a contract at the end saying she will not press any charges in the future, we both fingerprinted it and each have a copy of the contract.

Because she lives in Gwangju and not Seoul everything was done by snail mail....

Anyways this was 4 months ago and long over...

Oh...and just to make sure it was her fingerprint, I had to call her and voice recorded that she received the money, confirmed it and signed the contract and sent it to me via mail.

I was waiting for the Nigerian Prince to make an appearance in your story.

Originally Posted by iAmAttila

U can buy packs of pics with licenses on gfy.com fyi .. i bought like 500 diff with full licenses for 200 dollars.

Originally Posted by rafael3000

Can you be more specific how the process works on GFY.com?
How can you be sure people who sell you these sets of pics have full rights to those sets? Do you get any kind of paperwork from them proving that you get full ownership of the pics?
And when you make banners out of them, how do you protects those banners from other affs?

Thanks

Originally Posted by iAmAttila

U can buy packs of pics with licenses on gfy.com fyi .. i bought like 500 diff with full licenses for 200 dollars.

Next time just go out and spend $100 and buy legit stock content to use. Save yourself a whole bunch of time, energy and $$$.

Like cmdeal said, you don't realize how lucky you got!

I think a lot people underestimate the types of damages and fines you open yourself up to by using images that are copyrighted. By using someones image with the headline, "fuck her tonight", etc. You've opened yourself up to more than just copyright infringement.

*** How you can remedy the age old problem of getting images on a budget ***

I pay a photographer $1500 a month for ALL the images I think I may need. This gets me a signed release from the models and a release from the photographer himself. Owning the copyright to images gives you A LOT of leverage with successful campaigns. Got a model that is just killing it for your campaigns? Watch how much more life you can get out of those banners by preventing your competition from using them.

Can't afford $1500, but want custom images that you own? You can get a solid model release from a lawyer for about $200. Next, hop on backpage, modelmayhem, craigslist, etc and find women for what you need. Lastly, bust out that smart phone, find some decent lighting angles and snap away. You'll be shocked at how well pictures from an iphone5s or an android will work!

Would this be the same thing when grabbing amateur photos for a dating site? Let's say I wanted to do latina dating and I just grabbed a bunch of latina women (amateur photos) and just put it on the ad?

I know a lot of people to do it so..

Here's my opinion (I AM NOT A LAWYER).

You were extorted. Without proof of the victim's physical appearance, I would have at least asked for confirmation. If they called me, I would record every call, and any other communication. If it turns out that they were lying about their physical appearance, I will file a counter-suit for extortion, causing undue psychological strain, and whatever else I can throw at them. I would also use all communications as evidence.

Considering what happened, I agree with cmdeal, you got off cheap.

Someone once stole one of my forex algorithms, and tried to sell it as his own work. Figured out his name and contact information--which Clickbank very readily gave up--and filed suit in court. He tried to settle, but I was having none of it. I won, and was awarded $x,xxx,xxx in damages--many times more than his settlement offers. I have yet to be paid in full.


Here's a thought.

Some time ago, scientists wanted to figure out how much money is required to pay people to install arbitrary code on their computer.

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archiv..._people_t.html

In short:

22% of people who saw the ad accepted $0.01 to install malware on their computer.
43% of people who saw the ad accepted $1.00 to install malware on their computer.

If there is a profile picture you really like, why not offer to pay owner for the picture? Have proper release, and video-recorded statement saying the user will license use of the pictures for effectively whatever you the advertiser want.

Figure offer $5?

@cmdeal, can you or your lawyers weigh in?

I'm kind of agreeing with the (extorted) feeling on this one too, however, it does also bring to attention the whole issue about using others images without consent inside your banners/LPs with images. I'm just about to get started in the adult niche via traffic networks and I'm somewhat worried about how I'm to get custom designs implemented without the potential of legal issues. I understand the possibility of anything actually happening in regards to legal repercussions are low, but, the whole (what if) still stands out in my mind.

So, I'm now trying to work out how to get around this:
1. Hire models (unrealistic)
2. Buy stock images as others have said (whom would sell adult type photos though with full rights?)
3. Just use share .gifs from Google (hope that the people have given rights)

Thoughts on this anyone?

Originally Posted by aimhigh

I'm kind of agreeing with the (extorted) feeling on this one too, however, it does also bring to attention the whole issue about using others images without consent inside your banners/LPs with images. I'm just about to get started in the adult niche via traffic networks and I'm somewhat worried about how I'm to get custom designs implemented without the potential of legal issues. I understand the possibility of anything actually happening in regards to legal repercussions are low, but, the whole (what if) still stands out in my mind.

So, I'm now trying to work out how to get around this:
1. Hire models (unrealistic)
2. Buy stock images as others have said (whom would sell adult type photos though with full rights?)
3. Just use share .gifs from Google (hope that the people have given rights)

Thoughts on this anyone?

It's worth noting that there are also sites out there where people share pics, even adult pics, under Creative Commons.

You've got to be a bit careful with the license (Attribution, no limits on commercial use or remix), you've got to provide attribution (in the metadata for PNG and JPG, but GIF is trickier) and for Pete's sake do a TinEye search to check that the person who uploaded is the original creator, but given all that, it's a good way to get images that you're legally allowed to use.

I've run a LOT of Creative Commons images over the years.

Also, hiring a model/models is in no way unrealistic. There are looooots of models in the world looking to get started. You do have to be a half-decent photographer, but if you're looking for the amateur look you don't need to worry about lighting, lenses, etc.

(Obviously, ymmv if your SO isn't so keen on you shooting pictures of naked ladies, but hey.)

I know a lot of people to do it so..

.... it still doesn't make it legal. Using an image without consent goes far beyond copyright infringement. If it has someone in it and you do not have this persons explicit written consent to use their likeness, then you're setting yourself up for a world of civil hurt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_rights

As a side note,

Images can be the most important part of a campaign. Learn to get them made exactly how you want and on the cheap! My first photoshoot (with releases) was $150 dollars. Hop on flickr and start hitting up photographers, you'll be surprised how many will work for free (just for the fun of it).

Caurmen do you usually worry about the fact that sometimes pics get their license attribution changed after you started to using them? Is it possible to prove how they were licensed ?

As I was a practicing lawyer (partner at a business law firm) not so long ago (9 days ago to be exact, good riddance) and intellectual property rights was one of my areas of expertise I decided to chime in:

First of all, the laws surrounding these issues obviously differ a lot between different countries, I come from a western European (EU) background. The principles, however, are pretty similar in most countries.

In general, using pictures without sufficient rights can be problematic in many ways:

1. Copyright to the image (=photo). Someone has taken the photo and that someone has copyright to the photo (lets assume it is not a selfie). Using the photo without permission infringes that copyright. Just to make it clear: It is not the person in the photo that owns the copyright, it is the person that has _taken_ the photo.
2. In addition to the "traditional" copyright the person that has taken the picture also has what are commonly called "moral rights" to the photo. Lets say that the person took the photo as a nice innocent picture of the girl next door. Using that picture in for example an adult banner may infringe the moral rights of the person that took the photo.
3. Rights of the person in the photo. These are actually very vague compared to the pretty straightforward rights of the person who took the photo. To be honest I am not sure what exactly would be the rights of that person in EU for example. I assume that using the picture of a person in for example an adult ad (or even a dating ad) without her (obviously it would be a her...) permission might be a privacy/libel etc issue.

Note, doing the above may constitute a criminal offence in many countries.

One more thing to consider is that even if you get the pictures from a source that claims to be reliable (such as a site offering free pictures) it does not actually help if that site did not have the necessary rights. In other words, they cannot give you what they do not have and if someone has uploaded the picture without sufficient rights the site cannot give the rights they do not have to you.

In conclusion: In practice It is probably very unlikely to get caught using whatever pictures you may find on the internet. If you do however, it can be nasty. If you are using pictures under e.g. creative commons be sure to check out what the license actually says (is commercial use allowed etc...).

Originally Posted by murcatto

As I was a practicing lawyer (partner at a business law firm) not so long ago (9 days ago to be exact, good riddance) and intellectual property rights was one of my areas of expertise I decided to chime in:

First of all, the laws surrounding these issues obviously differ a lot between different countries, I come from a western European (EU) background. The principles, however, are pretty similar in most countries.

In general, using pictures without sufficient rights can be problematic in many ways:

1. Copyright to the image (=photo). Someone has taken the photo and that someone has copyright to the photo (lets assume it is not a selfie). Using the photo without permission infringes that copyright. Just to make it clear: It is not the person in the photo that owns the copyright, it is the person that has _taken_ the photo.
2. In addition to the "traditional" copyright the person that has taken the picture also has what are commonly called "moral rights" to the photo. Lets say that the person took the photo as a nice innocent picture of the girl next door. Using that picture in for example an adult banner may infringe the moral rights of the person that took the photo.
3. Rights of the person in the photo. These are actually very vague compared to the pretty straightforward rights of the person who took the photo. To be honest I am not sure what exactly would be the rights of that person in EU for example. I assume that using the picture of a person in for example an adult ad (or even a dating ad) without her (obviously it would be a her...) permission might be a privacy/libel etc issue.

Note, doing the above may constitute a criminal offence in many countries.

One more thing to consider is that even if you get the pictures from a source that claims to be reliable (such as a site offering free pictures) it does not actually help if that site did not have the necessary rights. In other words, they cannot give you what they do not have and if someone has uploaded the picture without sufficient rights the site cannot give the rights they do not have to you.

In conclusion: In practice It is probably very unlikely to get caught using whatever pictures you may find on the internet. If you do however, it can be nasty. If you are using pictures under e.g. creative commons be sure to check out what the license actually says (is commercial use allowed etc...).

I guess using chicks bending over would be the way to go then, appeal to the ass lovers and don't show the chicks faces.
At least then you can't get in the legal issues if you're not showing their face.

Originally Posted by thebrent

Like cmdeal said, you don't realize how lucky you got!

I think a lot people underestimate the types of damages and fines you open yourself up to by using images that are copyrighted. By using someones image with the headline, "fuck her tonight", etc. You've opened yourself up to more than just copyright infringement.

@dario - that's not top of my worries list, although I agree, it could happen. Might be worth screenshotting the page with the license on it (or better yet using archive.today), although that'd be of limited use in court.

Generally someone uploading something that they didn't have rights to and claiming it's CC is a far larger problem - I know people who've been screwed by that.

Next time use fake info? Theres so many things you couldve done to avoid this. Learn to be anonymous. Perhaps even have a "affiliate network" that way you can blame it on some affiliate in the USA that ran the campaign for you.

Originally Posted by peterpan

The CPA company calls me and asked if I was using girls pictures without their permission. I say yes and they tell me to stop them all.

I think:
1. Great use of cognitive dissonance by the family here.
2. You could (outrageosly?) asked if you could keep the picture for the 5k. If the campaign was profitable, you could had at least gain some back. Obviously you should have acted innocently ingenous.
3. I wonder how many people can I randomly extort being "the brother of that girl"
4. It could have been the girl of a mafia boss, so yes you got lucky

Big thing is.....don't lift pictures, ever. For any site. Especially for an ad. You're just gambling on getting sued. I'm always EXTREMELY careful about this, and, even I got hit by one of the infringement trolls. He was trying to get $5k for a 150 x 150 thumbnail of a building that one of our interns had put on an obscure part of the site. It wasn't even the whole picture, or a good picture. Still had a case, still had to settle.

Just read this, and I can't deny I laughed at the moral of the story! Thanks for posting.

So when working in the adult space , would this still apply? These pictures are everywhere.
How else could I get 1000's of images?

yes ofcourse. The safest bet are to get royalty free images or pay for pictures and use them. iamatilla gave a good suggestion earlier, he said go to gfy.com and you can get images for cheap

Yeah this is a big no no in south korea lol. Plus koreans are always looking for a way to sue. Glad to know im not the only one from korea on STM.