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PayPerCall Roller Coaster - Initial Data Revealed (34)

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Hi,

My hustle starts here.

Offer: Live Links
Network: I am testing multiple (F5Media, Ringpartner, Mundo)
Payout; $1.6-1.7
Traffic: Google Adwords (Mobile Only, I am using 300% bid increase and call extensions)
Keywords: 1000 or more

Initial Data:

I have run this campaign over a week because my new adwords account was under review, so campaign was on-off periodically. So it took time for me to collect data.

Impression: 7417
Clicks: 522
CTR: 7.04%
Avg CPC: $0.46
Total Cost: $239
Conversions: 65
Revenue: $108
ROI: -54%

Things to do:

1) Cut under performing keywords
2) Add new keywords
3) Add few more ads and improve quality score and CTR. At the moment, quality score is 6-7 and CTR is 7.07%

Any advice from experts is heartily appreciated.

Thanks.

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1) What causes the lower quality score?
2) Try to cut all kw's / ad groups that have over 300+ impressions and zero clicks
3) Try to cut all kw's / ad groups that have 1000+ impressions and < 1% CTR
4) Try different ad titles. With and without Keyword insertion

You have to lower your AVG CPC. That means, cut the ones that aren't performing and focus on getting a higher avg. QS score. TIP: Get a script that tracks the quality score automatically. Most of my best performing campaigns have an avg. QS score of > 7.5.

Forgot to mention: Get more data in. My first round is most of the time around $300. More info: http://stmforum.com/forum/showthread...l=1#post181267

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That does seem like a nice start ... not far from breakeven, which suggests that if you can start optimising, you can start seeing green soon.

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Hey, I am sorry but I had to edit my numbers in the post because I made mistake in selecting time period in adwords when I checked it first time.

Now, we are looking at -55% ROI.

Regards,
Priyank.

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Are you following Attila's guide? I am doing something very similar. Subscribed. Looking forward to your results!

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Hi,

Thanks for the insights.

1) I am using newly created Google adwords account. Do you think that has anything to do with quality score of 6-7. But anyways, I will be shooting for >7.5 as you suggested.

2 & 3) Yeah...I will start optimizing now as I have enough data.

4) How many ads per ad group do your suggest? I am running 2. After checking initial results and choosing a winner, I will be adding 3 more to make 4 in total.

About CPC, do you think it's possible to bring it down to $0.30 from $0.50 with better ads and quality score? Or what should I do instead?

Regards,
Priyank.

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Hey Dave,

Yes I am using Attila's Guide but using unique angle of attack.

Good luck for your campaign mate.

Thanks.

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Update: 28/01/2015

Things done:

1) I have cut a few keywords that were performing too badly. Only 3 keywords though.
2) Also adjusted bids for a few keywords depending on the initial data.
3) I have also ordered recording to use as a call promotion. Just to test if it can improve CR.

Data (28-01-2015):

Impression: 8363
Clicks: 449
CTR: 5.37%
Avg CPC: $0.40
Total Cost: $179
Conversions: 66
CR: 14.7%
Revenue: $112.2
ROI: -37%

By pausing just 4 keywords and adjusting bids for 5-6 keywords - My CTR has gone down but CPC has also gone down and Conversion rate has improved from 12.5% to 14.7%. That means improvement in ROI too.

So I think I am moving in the right direction.

However, I am worried about one thing - Spending $150-200 a day in the testing phase.

Experts please chime in with expert comments.

Regards,
Priyank.

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Don't worry too much about CTR really. "My CTR has gone down but CPC has also gone down and Conversion rate has improved from 12.5% to 14.7%." that's good!

You should definitely try to call the number yourself to get a better idea of what the advertiser and their call centres say on the call. This will help you with your ad copy as well.

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Hi,

Yeah I am not worried about CTR much. My goal is to improve quality score, ad positions and CPC.

I do call the number daily to be aware of changes. I recently noticed a change in Livelinks call flow and hence have ordered recording to make call flow smoother for the callers. Hope that will have positive impact when I implement that tomorrow.

Thanks.

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1) Google says the don't count the account QS. But they do. More aged AdWords account -> better reputation -> lower CPC (takes years from my experience)
2) According to your daily budget. You can scale up to 3 ads.

New question about CPC. Do you set up bids by yourself? Or do you let google handle it? Set up bids by yourself, never give google the power to spend your money ;-)

Something to try on the livelinks campaign, try CPA (https://support.google.com/adwords/a...72713?hl=en-AU) and set a max CPA.

ADDON: Also pause the kw's that spend >2 times the payout without conversions. You have ALOT of data. So dive into the stats and optimze.

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1) I cannot do anything about age of the account. So I will be optimizing other entities.

2) Yeah...I am now running 2 additional ads. What do you recommend though - To let google decides which ad to run or equally share impressions btw all ads?

Yeah CPA is interesting. I will try once I optimize this and take it to green.

Yeah...I have stopped keywords that have spend more than 2x payout with no conversions. Have also adjusted bids for some of the keywords. Let's see how it goes now.

Thanks.

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Update: 2 Feb 2015

Stats:

All Time:

Impressions: 52,578
Clicks: 2981
CTR: 5.67%
Avg CPC: $0.40
Total Cost: $1180
Conversions: 402
Revenue: $683.4
ROI: -42%

Last 4 days:

Impressions: 27, 120
Clicks: 1480
CTR: 5.46%
Avg CPC: $0.36
Total Cost: $560
Conversions: 200
Revenue: $340
ROI: -40%

Yesterday(Sunday):

Impressions: 6131
Clicks: 375
CTR: 6.12%
Avg CPC: $0.34
Total Cost: $129
Conversions: 68
Revenue: $115.6
ROI: -10.5%

Optimization done -

- I have chosen blacklisting approach for this campaign so that I don't cut too many keywords in the beginning.

- I have added custom recording at the beginning of the call because call flaw was changed after I decided to promote this offer.

- I am constantly testing new ads for each of the 3 ad groups.

- I have cut all the keywords that have spent:

1) over 2x payout and 0 conversions
2) over 3x payout and -50% or less ROI

Possible reasons for negative ROI:

- Because I am just blacklisting non-performing keywords. That means there is a large pool of keywords that are undecided. And from those keywords, some of the keywords will get multiple clicks without conversions though they are highly targeted. Giving me fresh loss for a new day.

- Livelinks offer changed a bit after I decided to start this campaign. Earlier, it started with an offer of 30 mins free when a call starts. Now, it asks for payment first when someone calls.

Questions:

1) Do you guys think I should start pooling the keywords into 3 groups: profiting keywords pool, possible winners pool and testing pool ?

2) Do you guys think I am spending too much and should have started with a smaller list of keywords when I wanted to go with backlisting approach.

3) Ad rotation: I let google decide which ads to run. But what I am seeing is that ads with higher CTR & CR is getting less ad serve %? Do you think I should evenly rotate ads?

4) What other suggestions do you have to improve this campaign?

Yesterday was the best day for this campaign with -10% ROI but I think that has a lot to do with it being Sunday. Fresh data for next 2 days will help me decide future of this campaign.

Thanks for reading this long update.

Keep stacking guys.

Regards,
Priyank.

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I wouldn't read too much into the change of the offer. I think it may be due to you calling back from the same number and re-directing to asking for a credit card, rather than pushing the promo again. Not sure, but could be possible.

1) You could pool the keywords, but ultimately you only want the best performing keywords. Keywords that Google loves, that may not be the most profitable.

2) I wouldn't worry too much about the cost, you're gathering data and the more the better. You can trim the campaign down later and it's difficult to know what keywords would and wouldn't have worked. So, I don't think a large list is a bad thing.

3) Up to you, you could let Google choose the winner or you can find it yourself. Just remember you need ads with good CTR to keep Google happy.

4) Gather more data, the more the better. Then take a look at your search term details, make sure you are matching under-performing terms or unrelated terms.

You're making some good progress here. Best of luck!

Thanks for sharing.

-Mike

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Hello,priyankcmp.Do you also run CPI campaigns?

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Definitely moving in the right direction here! -10% ROI after a couple of rounds of optimisation is pretty promising in any vertical.

Have you tested the call promotion yet?

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Yes Sir,

I have tried 2 versions of a call promotion. Noting fancy. Just 15 secs pitch to get callers excited and hooked. And it had positive impact overall i.e. from 9.5% to 11.9% CR. So, running the offer with the winner call promotion now.

I do have promising keywords and ads. Still I am constantly testing variations of the winner ads.

For keywords, I am constantly brainstorming new angles that can work with this offer. Found 20 keywords today that have decent volume and low enough CPC. Will be adding those keywords today to my campaign.

So yes, numbers are looking good for last 2 days. Little bump in payout or another round of optimization would push this campaign in green.

But I will be watching this very closely for next 3-4 week days.

Thanks,
Priyank.

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Hey mate,

No I am not running CPI at the moment. Just focusing on adwords and PayPerCall.

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Hi Mike,

You are absolutely correct. There was no change in the offer but it changed because I used my US skype number repeatedly to test offer.

However, adding a call promotion has really helped this campaign going from 9.5% to 11.9% CR. So I am continuing with the winner call promo for now.

Also, I will be considering your other tips when optimizing this campaign again.

Will be gathering more data for 48-72 hours before cutting more keywords unless I find really dead keywords sucking up my daily budget.

Thanks for the insights mike.

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Update


Stats for 2nd Feb 2015:

Impressions: 5961
Clicks: 373
CTR: 6.26%
Avg CPC: $0.33
Total Cost: $123
Conversions: 67
Revenue: $113.9
ROI: -7.5%

Things done since last update: Nothing

I want to gather more data before optimizing.

I am running this offer with F5Media with payout of $1.7. But other 2-3 networks also have same offer.

What should I do first - Test this offer with other networks or ask for bump at F5?

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If you saw a bump from testing 2 variants of the call promotion, you can probably push the CVR much higher by testing more of them.

Try putting together 4 or 5 radically different ones - different lengths, different script, different actors - and split-testing.

Sounds like there's gold in them thar hills!

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Correct Caurman. Let me found out few more recording artists on Fiverr and order 3-5 variations.

Thanks for the advice mate.

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UPDATE

Stats for 3rd Feb 2015:

Phase 1:

Impression: 1689
Clicks: 93
CTR: 5.5%
Avg CPC: $0.41
Total Cost: $38.13
Conversions: 6
Revenue: $10.2
ROI: -73.25%


Phase 2:

Impression: 3364
Clicks: 229
CTR: 6.8%
Avg CPC: $0.32
Total Cost: $73.27
Conversions: 40
Revenue: $68
ROI: -7.2%

One might think why such varying numbers on the same day. Let me explain:

I tried to get little creative and changed display URL of my ads. Wanted to add something specific instead of general words in the display URL.

RESULT, all the numbers - including avg position of ads, CTR, CVR and CR declined crazily. And CPC went up by $0.08-0.09

Just to give you an example, CVR went from 17.9% (last 3 days) to 6%(phase 1). CPC from $0.33 to $0.41.

Campaign ran for 8-9 hours in this daytime (EST), when I was dreaming about profits in my sleep here in India. Giving me significant loss.

Lessons learnt.

Anybody experienced positive movement straight away after changing display URL?

I am just wondering that new ads (changing display URL is considered as new ads in adwords) would always have lower ad position before improving depending on the performance. Or it depends on what adwords think of the new ads at first go.

Whatever, I am loving this combo of Google adwords and PayPerCall. Hustling to get in the affiliate marketer's paradise - GREEN ZONE.

Regards,
Priyank.

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I'm not sure if it's true, but I think Google likes it when you make changes to your campaign. Or, at least it tries new things when you make changes. So, by changing the display URL they may have tested your ad in a new spot and it go results.

Glad to hear your loving Adwords and pay per call, it's a fun game!

Cheers,
-Mike

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Yea, unfortunately, when you edit an ad in AdWords you lose all of the performance data and positive quality score statistics. Documentation here: Edit your ad text - AdWords Help

With lower quality scores, your actual CPC is going to increase.

But, if everything else is the same (landing page, keyword, ad text), then your figures should get back to normal quickly. AdWords recalculates quality score every time your keyword is triggered by a search query. That looks like what happened in this case.

Google's guidance is to add additional ads instead of editing.This way, you have some time for the new ads to get up to speed.

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Yeah Mr Zoom,

You are correct. I have learnt that the hard way. Will be more careful next time.

Thanks for the insights.

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UPDATE:

Things done:

For last 4-5 days since my last update, I have done following things:

1) Paused all the keywords with spend 2x payout but no conversions
2) I have also paused keywords that have more than 5 conversions but are spending 1.5x per for each converted click.
3) Adjusted (+/-) bid of clear winners (to get more impression share) and near losers (to get them to turn profits).

Data for last 2 days:

7 Feb 2015:

Impression: 8842
Clicks: 533
CTR: 6.03%
Avg CPC: $0.32
Total Cost: $170
Conversions: 94
Revenue: $159.8
ROI: -6%

8 Feb 2015:

Impression: 7656
Clicks: 471
CTR: 6.15%
Avg CPC: $0.33
Total Cost: $155.43
Conversions: 97
Revenue: $164.9
ROI: +6%

Finally this campaign is in green.

However, I am dumping in $150+ to get return of $10 a day.

Now, I will be hustling to improve CTR, ad position, CPC, and other metrics to make at least $50 a day by spending $150 or less. And that would need another week of optimization I think.

Then to start testing more keywords on this campaign. And begin another campaign that I have already researched on and have keywords ready.

Wanted to ask if anyone is running PayPerCall offers in Search partners or Display in adwords?

Your great advice is always welcome Stackers.

Regards,
Priyank.

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Now it is a matter of optimising, ideally on larger volumes.

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UPDATE:

9 Feb 2015:

Impression: 6300
Clicks: 409
CTR: 6.49%
Avg CPC: $0.33
Total Cost: $136.10
Conversions: 87
Revenue: $147.9
ROI: +8.67%

10 Feb 2015:

Impression: 3873
Clicks: 267
CTR: 6.89%
Avg CPC: $0.33
Total Cost: $88.6
Conversions: 72
Revenue: $122.4
ROI: +38.1%

Last 3 days - all green.

I have been pausing all the non-performing keywords, testing new headlines, text and much more.

Yesterday only, I have started day parting and now running this for 16 hours a day only. I found 8 under performing hours depending on 15+ days data. That's a reason volume has gone down.

But I am seeing significant improvement in all other metrics. So I am happy with it.

Things to do:

1. Identify keywords that are not getting much impression share because of low ad position/low bid and test them.

2. Find new potential keywords and test them with my best performing ads.

3. Keep testing new versions of winner ads. - I am still little confused here. Some of the ads that I have tested gets like 2x CTR and better CVR but still google is preferring other ads. I cannot make decision because better looking ads don't have significant data. I am thinking about equally sharing impression among all the ads and then decide. If any of expert here can chime in with their magical advice, I will be really grateful.

4. Test some fresh call promotions. Want to go really aggressive this time, but only after talking to my AM.

Regards,
Priyank.

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UPDATE:


11 Feb 2015:

Impression: 3948
Clicks: 245
CTR: 6.21%
Avg CPC: $0.32
Total Cost: $77.75
Conversions: 63
Revenue: $107.1
ROI: +37.74%

Thanks.

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Awesome!

So, you're allowed to use Call Promotions on Livelinks?

RP and F5 don't allow it though. Or is it just me? lol..

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no updates?

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I'm hoping to hear an update too.

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Sub'd, hope you get to 100% and scale up to $x,xxx/day.

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