Need Advice: Dispute with AppFlood on conversions on offer (38)
Need Advice: Dispute with AppFlood on conversions on offer
Hi STMers,
I like to seek some advise and opinion from experience affiliate marketers on this case where AppFlood did not payout my conversions to an offer that was run late last November although i did not violate any rules imposed on the offer. The total payout was over 4K for the conversions...
Several days later upon running the campaign, Appflood started to request for information on my traffic sources to show that my conversions were legitimate as their advertiser reported that retention quality for the conversions were low and suspected that incentive traffic may be used.
I was asked to provide screens of my traffic sources as proof and was shocked at the question of being asked to reveal my traffic sources. I replied it’s unfair request, traffic sources is the bread and butter for an affiliate.
Nevertheless, to proof that paid traffic was actually used, i provided a screen showing that paid traffic was sent without revealing the actual traffic source.
These are the points that I’ve raised to Appflood on this issue :
1) No affiliate will be willing to release detailed information about his traffic source. This is our bread and butter in this business. Can an advertiser of the offer request for such information?
2) If there was any concern about the quality of traffic from the advertiser, then the offer should have been capped right at the start. With no caps enforced, can the advertiser turn around and decide not to payout the conversions. How are we protected?
3) There is no way that i can verify that retention quality was low from the advertiser of the offer. It was basically their claim.
4) The affiliate network should protect our interest as affiliates of the company. There must be certainty of payment when conversions are made. Otherwise, how can we assured to deploy funds to run traffic..
5) In the end, I requested for Appflood to negotiate for percentage of the payout to be made to me. A discount could be given but it cannot be a total No Payout ...
However, Appflood concluded they are unable to fulfill the payout as their advertiser refused to pay for my traffic as retention rate was 0. Appflood on their personal basis will refund me the traffic cost out of their pocket to keep a long-term partnership and the decision made was final..
Certainly I was furious but there wasn’t much I could do to dispute further and control was definitely not on my side. The payout was eventually reversed out from my account.
This was really a bad experience as i was starting to gain progress in my mobile campaigns and do not have a big budget. This potential payout would have been very useful to fund more testing.
Please give me your advice and views on this matter and what could be done in such case. Have anyone encountered a similar problem and how was it resolved.
Thanks to all.
I work in app marketing and have been on the other side of the table so to speak. If the retention is 0, the traffic was most likely incent traffic or perceived to be incent traffic and our clients have not paid for those downloads. Because for incent traffic, its the retention is usually around 0-2%, for non-incent traffic depending on the game it will vary wildly. We had to argue with the adnetwork and ultimately won, mainly because the advertiser is always right. So if you don't show your "proof" so to speak, you won't get paid.
Honestly, if you have nothing to hide then show it to them. Losing 4k is a lot. But if you were running garbage incent traffic then i doubt you'll get a penny back...
don't mean to hijack but i had a hard time with appflood as well when it came to payment. it has taken me almost one month since request for payment and i still don't have it.. kept saying it will be paid out next week or the next day...
had a similar experience with yeahmobi where they were questioning my traffic, provided screenshots of the campaigns but not the company that I was using.
they were questioning if i was using pop traffic, so i was lucky my campaign desc has CPC on it.
no long term aff of these two network.. so no experience in terms of getting your money.
I guess the crux of the question is: were you using incent or disallowed traffic or not?
Just because traffic is paid, that does not mean it is not incent traffic.
If you were not using incent or other disallowed sources, and your traffic is "clean", I would just show them the screenshots.
Obviously, if the retention rate for the advertiser on 4000 USD of leads was indeed 0 percent, I would imagine any advertiser would get suspicious. It can happen, of course, but it would certainly raise some red flags.
never had trouble with AppFlood in terms of payments. Probably means that traffic was really shit, but to be honest I was fighting many times with them in terms of quality. Although its hard to do anything when they are not even willing to include sub_sub_id optimisation which is the most simple way to ensure quality sources (pub_ids), nonetheless that also depends pretty much on the advertiser.
Originally Posted by lynskey
If I remember correctly, the definition of CPA Marketing is "an online advertising pricing model, where the advertiser pays for each specified action - for example, an impression, click, form submit (e.g., contact request, newsletter sign up, registration etc.), double opt-in or sale.". Since the advertiser has placed the offer on the network, and we as an affiliate - we drive traffic to it and whenever there is a conversion, we should get paid.
Whereas as a CPA Network (not referring to any particular network), if an affiliate has generated conversions and his traffic is legit, I believe the network should pay the affiliate regardless the non-payment from advertiser. This is a risk that being a CPA Network should absorb.
In this instance, I believe:
1. The advertiser should have capped the offer and review the quality of the traffic - but not waited until $4k worth of conversions only inform the pub that "we are not gonna pay for it due to 0 retention"
2. The CPA network should have informed you as well - I hope you did speak to your AM and he/she was aware that you were sending traffic to that offer.
There was a time where I pushed really hard on a dating offer (no cap & direct). I did about $4000 in a day and the advertiser was telling me that the traffic did not back out for them. However they are willing to pay 50% of the $4000 and ask if I'm okay with that. To maintain the relationship with the advertiser, I had to take up their offer and continue working with them. At least, I got paid 50%.
So in your case, as long your traffic driving method is legit and you did not violate their rules, you should be paid by the network.
Just my 2 cent.
This sucks.
Would you mind sharing the offer?
Because I definitely want to avoid this advertiser, and I guess I would not be the only one.
Providing that you did not break any specific rules of the offer (incentive or adult traffic) you SHOULD get paid, no questions asked.
Everybody carries different risks in this business. Your risk is not whether the advertiser pays the network or not.
A 0% retention is almost unheard of. I would ask for screenshots from Hasoffers showing your affiliate ID and the retention. You need to see proof as well !!
All and all I would still insist on FULL payment.
I had few hiccups in regarding of similar matters with appflood as well. they withhold my payment because the advertiser want to do a quality review, and before this review is done they won't pay.
It seems that they are heavily sided with advertisers and just doing whatever the advertisers want. ie: advertisers don't want to pay for whatever reason, we don't pay you
In contrast I had no problem with avazu
Never had similar problem with appflood and already done lots of revenue with them. You're probably running some low quality traffic.
I've had no problems with AppFlood and can definitely vouch for them.
We do need to remember that we pay CPA networks a percentage of our possible commission in order to:
a) mitigate risk of an advertiser not paying
b) provide a large selection of advertisers to work with
If they are indeed failing to fulfill their duties as an affiliate network, then that's definitely a problem.
If OP's traffic was legit then he should be paid end of story I'd be interested to hear AppFlood's side of the story as well.
Even though they always paid me on time, I think if you didn't break any rules you should be paid 100%.
Keep us updated how it goes.
You should reveal your traffic source and info to them and be transparent.
If the traffic was real, compliant and non-incent then you should be paid and the 0% retention likely has to do with your angle/advertising approach and the app itself. A 0% retention isn't going to happen on any decent app that's been sent real traffic via ads that aren't lying about what the product offers.
Appflood absorbs the risk of advertiser non-payment on legitimate, compliant traffic - not you.
Also, as mentioned, you should ask for evidence from them showing their 0% retention data for your affiliate ID. In this case I hope you also sent other IDs (e.g. campaign/banner IDs) so that you can better confirm it's actually your traffic. Granted it's trivial to change HTML page data for a screenshot... but still, every party involved should pony up with proof.
Any updates? Did you get paid?
I am having the same problems with Appflood and UC.
What is the reason they gave you why you are not getting paid?
Originally Posted by martintak
They said "Fake traffic".
Whatever that means.
I may be having a similar issue with them as well. I am working with them to get payment as well. I may have to post something If I don't get payment in a week.
I have the exact same issue with above all offers. I sent 1300 dollars of zip submits to an offer via sitescout. They banned my account. I emailed Eli and he was cool about it. I gave screenshots and even offered my log in.
However a month later and I haven't heard back and no one replys to my emails or Skype.
I
Always start slow and date a network before you run more hen you're comfortable losing.
I suggest run small amounts of traffic. Then talk with your an and ask how the quality is backing out. Make sure you keep these logs or do it in email. As you begin to scale up, continue to check logging the responses. Because when it comes to a dispute this stuff is very valuable as leverage. If you have an AM that is telling you quality is good keep going in writing the network is pretty much obligated to pay. You obviously have no direct contact with the merchant so have to go by their word. If they just said run more without verifying that's on them. As a network owner sometimes merchants are unresponsive like that and we decide if we want to take that risk knowing we'd have to pay.
There's another thing not talked about here much. The traffic source could be great but the creative strategy could be driving user value to shit. For example we had someone promising users free Walmart gift cards in their creatives. Then send to a lander saying the same. In this case the traffic source was high quality but the user was being deceptive in their creative and posing users off.
We consider or affiliates our partners. If you're not comfortable sharing your stuff with your network. That means you do t trust them and need a new network.
Good luck getting paid. I think your best bet is leverage the longer term relationship. If they do t care about you, you don't want to work with them anyways.
Go through reading this thread, it mentioned 4 Mobile Network, Appflood, YeahMobi, Avazu, and UC, as I know all these networks are in China, I just feel strange, there's no good mobile network in US or CA now?
I don't have payment problem with appflood and yeahmobi. I'm always ask AM the retention rate to ensure I can get paid when Im lunch a new offer.
BTW, I'm also from China.
Originally Posted by sxk1120
Originally Posted by phlong
These networks own or are closely affiliated with some of the top Apps from the last 18 months. That's why they are the ''hot'' networks to work with.
A BIG problem seems to be coming from Pop traffic which is why its now banned on almost all App downloads. Overly aggressive pops forcing the install will always lead to low quality.
Nonetheless, everyone should get paid. If the network took their eye off the ball and failed to stop you for poor quality then they should take it on the chin.
as affiliates we need to take a lot of shit from a lot of directions. traffic sources, affiliate networks, advertisers, compliant lp's.
It's hard when even when you get profitable it doesn't end there. I understand it's part of the business model but still very frustrating.
When it comes to money, well ...in my case if close relations can cheat me for money (I am sure i am not alone) to be the nice guy ..giving loans and not getting paid , why can't ANYONE IN THE WORLD regardless reputation ...try to do it in the online space swell even companies. I know personally a company in the gaming .who build there whole existence on cheating a few affiliates each per month .who cheated x amount per month from affiliates.. lower there % and added negative account carry over that was made up .disputes and got away with it ..today they doing 5 m a month . They built there marketing bankroll of cheating x % of affiliates and keep paying those who they can't lose. Today they sponsor a top league football club ... They might just trying to cheat you....cos they think they can get away with it .. just saying
My advice if your close by try to just show up at there office and demand you wants to resolve the issue face to face. If its to far try to catch them at a convention ....In a nice way,
I had a similar issue with AppFlood in November too. Was doing low $xxx,xxx per month with them for about 4 months and they were paying me regularly. The retention quality was ok, i seemed to get the run around of "send your traffic to this utility offer instead..." every few weeks and then suddenly in November got hit with a mid $xx,xxx scrub for a browser offer. Went through the motions, sent screenshots and whatnot and they never paid me for it. Said that the advertiser said the traffic was fraud (never gave me any stats as requested). When I pressed further, my AM gave me a whole "you almost cost me my job" spiel, then went completely silent. Hoping to connect with them in London though...might have been communication issues with their AM on quality, still i think it was poor form and their loss in the long run as ive just moved the traffic to another network with a better margin.
Still better than Avazu -- their AM was on me saying we had the best quality on the network and then bans me as soon as i put $xx,xxx on the hook with them in October. They said that they had proof of it being incent traffic and fake, but never disclosed it. And it wasnt bogus traffic either. Sent screenshots and everything.
Bottom line is that if they know you can run good traffic for them (and scale), they should be treating their publishers as such. I have no problem being transparent with them as long as they are with me.
Keep me posted mate, i feel your pain.
What's considered ''incentive'' traffic seems to be a bit blurry for some networks.
If you use pop-up alerts that implies you ''have to'' install the APP and then just redirects to the App... is considered incentivized by some.
I don't agree with it since incentive traffic clearly states an incentive for installing an App
Originally Posted by deondup
Once you've accrued a fair number of Pub ID's from a winning campaign, break them off into a separate campaign and tag it with a Source ID in your tracking link. Then test for more Pub ID sources with a different Source ID, so when you get notified of poor quality you can easily switch off campaigns to balance out your quality.
Originally Posted by deondup
Calling it incentive traffic is probably not the best label. It is not strictly incentive but it is misleading. In either case, it is still low (or even potentially negative) value traffic for most legit app makers.
Any updates?
I had a similar issue with AppFlood this weeks. And very hard to contact my AM to solve the issue.
I see way too many people complaining about not getting paid so it would be nice if Appflood could have their say on this.
If the leads were real leads and no additional offer rules have been broken, then regardless of how low the quality is or of the advertiser’s willingness to pay, they should still pay the affiliate because this a risk they’re supposed to absorb as an affiliate network.
If that was not the case, then I don’t really see so many important benefits for not going direct with advertisers apart from better cash flow maybe. 
yes I also have some problems with Appflood
http://stmforum.com/forum/showthread...ou-Think-again
Originally Posted by badimo
If the leads were real leads and no additional offer rules have been broken, then regardless of how low the quality is or of the advertiser’s willingness to pay, they should still pay the affiliate because this a risk they’re supposed to absorb as an affiliate network.
If that was not the case, then I don’t really see so many important benefits for not going direct with advertisers apart from better cash flow maybe.
I think STM forum has enough affilites and reputation in the industry to be a force to helpout if disputes happens. Its seams obviouse that many affilites at STM have or had problems with appflood. I mean after all everyone wants to make money and everyone wants to be happy affilites and networks we all need each other.
Suggestion : Maybee a seperate section in the forum for for dispute posting. And invite the representive from networks to discuss the mater who is right and wrong. Also it will prevent mud slinging and roumors and stuff that can hurt affilite networks aswell. Everyones intrest would be honesty on both sides
didn't realize so many people were having problems with appflood.
they said they've direct deposited my earnings over 2 weeks ago but it still hasn't shown up on my bank accounts. tried contacting them and talking to my affiliate manager but constantly being ignored.
thanks for the heads up. I'll stay away from appflood.
Yeah me to, I just read like 8 instances of "my AM ignored me" lol -- count me out.
Yea I ran with them for a while and recently had a issue with not getting Paid for my Power Clean Leads - Best to just move on
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