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Ad Server Hosting - To Cloud or Not to Cloud? (30)

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So I'm getting my feet wet in some direct adult media buys, and plan on using Revive ad server. (Cheers Finch for your new eBook that finally kicked my ass into gear on this!)

My current adult set avoids servers in general. Voluum > static file cdn

My question is: Where is the best place to host it for global reach? Can I get it hooked up on the cloud with scalability?

Any help / advice would be awesomeness

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For hosting... I hear good things about LiquidWeb.

I would steer clear of WiredTree.

I got recommended them, and they were abysmal. Their tech staff are incompetent.

For pages, I currently use KnownHost, but switching over to Amazon EC2 for my tracking.. and probably LiNode for pages sooner or later.. once I get someone to get a decent image constructed for me.

An ad-sever, I imagine, would need to be pretty beastly.. so def look into LiquidWeb's offerings..

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Thanks Andy, I currently have a dedicated at Beyond hosting for my mainstream stuff, but was wondering if there was more of a cloud option (since hosting on landers on rackspace is as good as free)

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You should define what you mean by "cloud".

It's a nebulous term.

A CDN like Rackspace Cloud Files is geographically distributed - so that files load from a nearby edge location.

You won't get a simple way of doing this for a dynamic system like an ad server.

Any "cloud" servers will just be in one location like anything else - so an Amazon EC2 instance or anything else is not going to give you an inherent advantage, in fact your BH dedicated is undoubtedly a lot better.

The main advantage with "cloud" VPS is the ability to create/destroy when needed and put them in a data center closer to your users. In this sense you could probably roll out independent ad server installs on multiple VPS and have e.g. us.myadserver.com, sg.myadserver.com, eu.myadserver.com and so on and set up campaigns on each server depending on where you are running the campaigns.

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Zeno: for tracking servers, do you think a dedi is better than Amazon ec2?

I know they have limited scalability, though, I just opted for a managed solution on Amazon ec2 as opposed to hosting on my own dedi, due to being fed up with server issues and scalability limitations. My concern is speed/power won't be as great.

In saying that - I've been referred liquid web and Amerinoc for dedicated servers.. I've had a decent experience with knowhost, albeit, a slew of issues as of late.. Lots of down time

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+1 liquidweb

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The VPS absolutely must use SSD storage.

For scalability the VPS wins but in terms of I/O and reliability of performance... it's hard to beat a dedicated server that is not virtualised and where there's no scope for other VPS's competing for resources or impacting performance.

I know Beyond Hosting has a "dedicated cloud" hybrid that is pretty shibby. As I understand it, they aren't even using SSD storage for those - completely done in memory so I/O is extreme though I don't know what kind of real world speed differences that will garner if using a tracker that already does a lot of memory-based caching. Would have to test it.

IMO you should have a dedicated in any geos where you do substantial persistent volume and use VPS to scale to other countries. You can always upgrade dedicated server hardware as a way of scaling.

I'm testing some neat stuff at the moment involving dynamic acceleration and load balancing. Lets just say 2015 will involve a lot of Zenotastic tech projects :-P

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Can you recommend a dedicated host that has servers in EU and would be ideal for setting up Thrive?

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LeaseWeb maybe... I'll ask STM's server guru.

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Thanks Zeno, sorry for the ambiguous using of 'cloud'.

I guess what I was looking for is having all the ad server information in one place but have it synced over nodes or data centers across US, Europe, Asia and the ad getting served from the closet node.

Maybe I'm just thinking way to much into it before I've even got something live.

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While I've yet to set up any tests with them myself, I've heard great things about EuroVPS.

I was told by the owner of DigitalFaq that they're on the AMS-IX (Amsterdam Internet Exchange), which is extremely well peered to the rest of the world, even loading faster in the US than some US-based hosts that are backhauled to a peering point. So, might be worth checking out.

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Thanks! Will check it out. Much prefer a dedicated but a VPS may be worth a try

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For sure man, let us know what you decide on.

And EuroVPS has dedicated servers as well as some cluster setups, so you should be able to find what you're looking for with them. Don't let the name mislead you.

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Words of wisdom from tech ninja:

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Ok,

So, had a lengthy chat with a Sales Rep at EuroVPS.

Dude was really knowledgeable, knows what Thrive is and said can set up a custom stack (in my case, I asked about Nginx/PHP-FPM, MariaDB and a few other things)..

It's billable, however, to get this set up (375 euro once off) to get the install and recommended me the INTEL XEON X5650 on this page https://www.eurovps.com/products/dedicated-servers.html

Also mentioned it would perform better than a solution hosted on Amazon Ec2, and 3-4million clicks a day is a low figure.

I'm actually, legitimately impressed. It's a complicated setup and so I understand the need for billable time to do the set up.

If anyone wants a copy of the chat-transcript, I can post it.. It'll answer all the questions you may have.

Thanks integrity for the reference :-)

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- Andrew Daher 09:41:44 pm
Hi
I was wondering about the managed dedicated servers
Do you guys provide installations and configure the servers
- Sales Representative 09:42:28 pm
Yes, sure.
We will set up everything for you
- Andrew Daher 09:43:35 pm
For example: I need a server that runs nginx, APC, PHP-FPM, MySQL/MariaDB, MemCached, ionCubeLoader, LFD/CSF firewall .. and would require it to be stress tested to make sure it doesn't crash etc.. as I have had a nightmare with other servers failing after I switch over
other hosting companies told me they don't support nginx
can you see if this is the case ?
- Sales Representative 09:44:45 pm
You need this application stack, on a Dedicated Server, right?
- Andrew Daher 09:44:49 pm
yep
- Sales Representative 09:45:01 pm
Please note, that this type of setup is time consuming, and will be billable - NGINX/php-fpm & Memcache is not a “Default” setup
- Andrew Daher 09:45:06 pm
also the ability to have multiple domains
- Sales Representative 09:45:12 pm
Yep, this is possible, but such a setup is billable -
- Andrew Daher 09:45:20 pm
right ok
how much would something like that cost
- Sales Representative 09:45:29 pm
This falls under our Professional Services / Custom Implementations
The setup exactly as described requires at least 12GB RAM, and a 4 core server - I would suggest a minimum E5620 processor
Having satisfied the minimum hardware requirements for a managed platform with this software, the cost is 374,50 EUR - once off - including 1 year of management for this as well.
- Andrew Daher 09:46:17 pm
yep i was going to go with the 209euro/mo server
374.50 is that the billable price to set the server up?
- Sales Representative 09:47:00 pm
Note also - that this is a highly complex setup & does require 1 to 1 work with you as well, please don’t consider that this is a simple setup -
- Andrew Daher 09:47:06 pm
and 209/mo for the server
- Sales Representative 09:47:20 pm
Yes, that’s the cost, for the setup & implementation. Note that implementation is a time consuming task to ensure that your applications work, as you expect, on the server you purchase
We don’t just set it up and give it to you - we actually work with you 1 on 1 until all is in order.
- Andrew Daher 09:47:43 pm
i just need a fast server basically.. is there a simpler stack that works just as well but can use APC/Memcache
basically, i need a server that can handle 1-2million clicks a day
with database writes/reads etc..
- Sales Representative 09:48:18 pm
The above stack is the fastest and most fault resilient setup available. Using NGINX/php-fpm is really the only choice for the traffic patterns you’re describing.
This setup will take just roughly 8-10 hours for initial setup, as well as one to two days of work with you going through your sites one by one.
Essentially we package this work (nginx/php-fpm/Varnish-Memcache) as a package to avoid per-hour costs - which would become “out of budget” for many subscribers.
Note that the team that handles these implementations has extensive experience on very large NGINX deployments, such as MTV Videos - etc - we’ve done these hundreds of times and as a result, that translates into both time & cost savings for you.
- Andrew Daher 09:50:17 pm
Ok
is your team at familiar with this software: http://Thrivetracker.com/
- Sales Representative 09:50:55 pm
Yes, we have customers using this -
the case is, that this software is very MySQL heavy
as a result, we don’t use MySQL on such implementations -
We use MariaDB or Percona with XTRADB (InnoDB replacement)
- Andrew Daher 09:51:23 pm
ok so basically, i need a server that can handle this piece of software
at 1-2 mil clicks a day, flawlessly
- Sales Representative 09:51:41 pm
If I may, I have a suggestion as well - beyond the setup stack as well:
- Andrew Daher 09:51:44 pm
and perhaps, to host a handful of sites that will server up static/php pages
- Sales Representative 09:52:02 pm
If your budget allows, go for the X5650 Xeon processor - the 2.66 x 6 (12 logical CPU) will be much faster and provide faster response per click
SSD disks are mandatory as well
- Sales Representative 09:52:34 pm
While mechanical 15K SAS disks are quite fast, they can delivery just 150-180 IOPS in this type of workload - compared to >50,000 IOPS delivered by the Hitachi SAS SSD’s we deliver
- Andrew Daher 09:53:02 pm
its just - right now - i have 2 servers - and wanting to just have the one - ultimately
- Sales Representative 09:53:42 pm
Our team is more than capable to satisfy your needs professionaly & expediently.
- Andrew Daher 09:53:57 pm
how is traffic speeds in the USA and Brazil?
- Sales Representative 09:53:59 pm
This setup could be done in short order, notwithstanding the “stack setup” which does take time, as we hand compile the software.
- Sales Representative 09:54:17 pm
We have excellent peering arrangements with Brazil, and USA is nearly “as though it was hosted in NYC” speeds
- Sales Representative 09:54:49 pm
the latency introduced by the AMS <-> USA is minimal and not visible to human users - if you know what I mean.
- Andrew Daher 09:54:50 pm
so the cost to set all this up is ~375 euro
is that on top of the monthly server costs?
i.e. first month = 375 + 329 euro
- Sales Representative 09:56:07 pm
Yes, that’s correct. Note also, that this is a once off, and does come with a year’s SUS management as well (Software updates, stack updates, etc)
- Andrew Daher 09:56:19 pm
this is great to know
i think i will (perhaps not RIGHT now) move over to you guys
i only just got set up with a managed service
- Sales Representative 09:57:50 pm
We will be standing by. In the event that you do decide to utilize our managed services, please note that you’ve spoken with Ronald Kost today, and you may use this chat (copy / paste) as a reference for the future.
- Andrew Daher 09:58:12 pm
is there also a drop-in panel
for this kind of stack
that functions well
that is also free?
as I know cPanel is not, and doesn't natively support nginx
- Sales Representative 09:58:44 pm
No, there is no panel -
This is all by hand, hence the costs & SUS
- Andrew Daher 09:59:04 pm
ok
for adding websites/domains/ftp accounts etc.. will i just have to open a ticket to have this done?
- Sales Representative 09:59:38 pm
While there “IS” a panel that can support nginx/php-fpm, it is wholly unreliable and will certainly cause downtime in the future if you use it. (ISPconfig) — Domain management, accounts additions etc - will result in human action being required by our team
Note also that many “panels” advertise NGINX however they fail to advise potential clients that in their implementation, it operates as a “reverse proxy” only, which is ultimately completley worthless
Our implementation provides for a native, nginx/php-fpm w/sockets, something that no panel can do at this time.
- Andrew Daher 10:01:16 pm
if i open a ticket and say "hey, I need you to add a new domain and require ftp access to it, and a database for it etc.."
this can be done?
- Sales Representative 10:01:18 pm
The professional services that we’re discussing include 1 year of this “ We handle it for you” in regars to this stack.
Yes, it’s part of the setup - absolutely.
- Andrew Daher 10:02:28 pm
so that server you mentioned, what would be the ultimate ceiling for volume it can withstand?
- Sales Representative 10:03:17 pm
There is no way to calculate this without a baseline in your own environment with your own data
Some datasets are larger, some smaller -
- Andrew Daher 10:03:36 pm
can you guesstimate?

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- Sales Representative 10:04:04 pm
One thing is for certain, it does perform significantly faster than the Hosted Edition & Thrive Tracker. You’re ultimately using dedicated resources, and HP’s Proliant BL460c G7 is designed for mission critical financial applications.
Low latency is the name of the game. As long as you have the proper hardware, the ceiling ultimately is the number of users you can send to your platform.
- Andrew Daher 10:05:02 pm
lets say I want to send 3-4million clicks a day
could this set up technically handle that?
just want to get an idea of how resilient it is
- Sales Representative 10:05:30 pm
Yes - that’s a low figure.
BTW this would be impossible with Apache irrespective of the type of hardware you ran
These type of traffic figures can only be serviced by NGINX/php-fpm/Memcache & at over 1M a day, MariaDB/or Percona
- Andrew Daher 10:06:24 pm
Yep, hence why i need that stack
- Sales Representative 10:06:33 pm
Indeed
- Andrew Daher 10:08:46 pm
What about hardware failures and such
How do you guys handle that?
- Sales Representative 10:09:32 pm
1 second, please
Our hardware is monitored at all times with alert systems such as observium and alike - these allow us to intercept any problems on the spot - furthermore there are health alerts on these, which allow us to know beforehand if something is going to fail
We also carry out regular maintenance of our DC to ensure all hardware is up to date
- Andrew Daher 10:11:26 pm
ok - say something does fail
a hard drive for example
what's the typical turn-around to get this replaced
theoretically speaking
and is there any fail-over in such cases so there is no downtime?
i know hardware failures are rare but can happen
- Sales Representative 10:12:55 pm
Failover as it pertains to storage can be established by using Hardware RAID.
RAID-1 is the level of redundancy available on our HP Proliant BL460c G7 servers. So essentially, it’s mirroring.
Lose 1 drive, you’re ok.
If a drive fails, we have stock onsite and replacements are usually carried out within 1-2 hours.
- Andrew Daher 10:14:10 pm
that's great
- Sales Representative 10:26:12 pm
If you decide to get a server with us, I would kindly advise you to send mail to sales@eurovps.com with the reference to this chat and with your detailed requirements about the server you need and we will help you to place an order
- Andrew Daher 10:26:30 pm
ok perfect
- Sales Representative 10:26:37 pm
https://my.eurovps.com/clientarea/ - here you can get registered with us
- Andrew Daher 10:26:38 pm
thanks for all your help!

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Sorry to hijack your thread sciaq :-)

I'm sure this info is useful to you too :P

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As it seems they are using leaseweb:

mnt-by: LEASEWEB-MNT

or are part of Leasweb not idea. Will check further and update with more details.

Will get one of those servers to test as the hardware seems really nice and the prices are fair.

As for the nginx/mariadb/php-fpm initial setup that is it no so complex. The thing is to make it work fine with the hardware you will get as there is some tweaking required. That almost 400 euro setup fee is a bit high though.

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All good man, it really is. Its making me think I should stop being a bitch and invest in some Europe Infrastructure

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Hey Andy, glad you liked them.

It's great that you posted that chat log as well, I thought they only did the managed Nginx installs on their clusters, which is why I was drawn to them in the first place.

That setup you posted is pretty much exactly how I had my iMobitrax set up when I ran self-hosted. It took me well over a day to set it up (after 2 weeks of trial and error setting up servers) and a few more days to get it right with all the tweaks that needed to be done to the MySQL/MariaDB configuration, and once it was set up I was so afraid to do things like add domains for fear of breaking something, especially when I did everything following tutorials online. So I'd happily pay that ~$375 euro setup fee for them to take care of all that nitty gritty stuff.

Now that I read what their sales rep had to say, I'm very curious to know how a setup like this would compare to something like Voluum in terms of redirect times, namely because he mentions how the stack you're looking to get will "perform significantly faster than the Hosted Edition & Thrive Tracker."

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Yeah, that's a bold claim but most likely true as managed/hosted is in the cloud - which is essentially a VPS.

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Please let us know how you go there..

Do you use a script to get that stuff set up goshev? I know we spoke before in the past about server stuff, really interested to get something based out of Amsterdam..

And well... a professional who can set up my server RIGHT from the get-go.. would be ideal..

Note: that price, as he mentioned, also includes a year of updates to the stack etc..

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Just an update here for you guys.

Ordered a dedi with EuroVPS.

Sales guy initially was great. My experience thus far isn't as great. Support is slow, and they forget to do the things I ask. Just having a handful of domains created took about 6-7 hours to complete and they didn't provide me with FTP details like I had asked (asked to create ftp accounts for the domains).

Then they reply with something very vague and even myself, with a tech background, am not too sure what they mean.

I wouldn't really recommend EuroVPS due to their below average support.

Anyone else have better recommendations..?

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Wow, thanks for the update, Andy.

I was actually about to get on the chat with them this very second to go with the same setup--the 299 EUR dedicated with the custom Nginx setup you had also discussed with their sales team. Had a chat about this Friday night and the conversation went pretty much the same as yours.

Now, I'm not quite sure what to do.

How's the server setup with Thrive at least? Did they work with you to optimize it as traffic started coming in? Tweak my.cnf settings, ect..?

Thanks again for the update. So sorry it has not been working out as you expected. I'm quite in the same position myself, although I haven't purchased anything yet. Spoke to LiquidWeb as well and they said this type of setup is a "best effort" type of thing and they can't guarantee it as far as Nginx and MariaDB go. Not really sure what to do now either.

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Honestly, dealing with EuroVPS has shown that they are extremely arrogant.

They think they can do no wrong here, yet their technicians have fucked up more than once, twice recently causing the same problem (Thrive started showing 503 errors), due to php-fpm not being rebooted.

We just experienced about 30 minutes of downtime before I noticed and logged a ticket to get it fixed.

The owner (i'm assuming) is a complete, arrogant asshole who deserves no business in my humble opinion.

I'll paste a conversation I had with them yesterday after issues arose.

The "Detailed breakdown" I got was this:


Later it happened again, and we discovered it was due to new domains being added (by their tech team) and then they failed to reboot PHP-FPM.




So yeah..

Fuck EuroVPS.

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Wow, that guy has a serious attitude problem.

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That's totally unacceptable.

I feel pretty bad for having referred you to them man--guess the dazzling sales chat you get in the beginning is all smoke and mirrors.

Was that the owner in the above chat, or just one of their tech guys? Regardless, there's no excuse to talk to a customer that way. EuroVPS just lost a ton of business they could have gotten from this forum, and possibly even more if you post that on your website.

Really hope you can get all this resolved as soon as possible.

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Yeah completely arrogant, I've never had to deal with such rudeness and I've been a massive asshole before to other hosting companies and have always been treated professionally when, in an unprofessional environment I'd face defensiveness. I was hardly rude to these guys, just direct and understandably frustrated with their slow support, failure to complete tasks requested wholly, oversights causing server issue and then their utter arrogance.

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Er, wow. Right. Bloody hell.

EuroVPS gets taken right off the "ever to be considered" list.

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