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Making Sales but not at the green light (9)

11-24-2014 06:18 PM #1 ggpaul (Member)
Making Sales but not at the green light

Hey guys, so I'm not sure what kind of adjustments I'm supposed to make. I've been doing a dating offer for about a month now and I've made $300 but I also spent $500. So I'm in the negatives. I'm not sure what adjustments I should make first? Is it my demographic? My ANGLE? My landing page? What numbers am I supposed to pay attention to? Is it my bidding? etc. etc.

My traffic source is POF..

If you need any other info to help me out then let me know. Thanks guys!

11-24-2014 11:02 PM #2 zeno (Administrator)

We definitely need more info - it could be all of these things.

What have you tested? What have you learned from the data?

11-24-2014 11:12 PM #3 ggpaul (Member)

I've gone over 50 ads each with the same copy but each one with a different image. The offer is a specific ethnicity. At first I was going for females of the same ethnicity where I made up to $180 and then I felt like the campaign was dying so I switched the demographic where I became a bit more broad - (targeting all female races).

Country is United States, and the age that I'm going for is above 30 with a login count below 50.

My conversion from offer to sales is 32.69%.....

My average CTR for each ad copy toggles between .04 - .06 % for the broad target audience...

I've spent $525 to make a total of $384 to be exact..

11-24-2014 11:16 PM #4 ggpaul (Member)

In addition, I've had a total of 386 clicks and 75 click throughs for the month of November. I don't have the other data because I was still figuring out how to setup prosper202 properly..

11-25-2014 06:39 PM #5 zeno (Administrator)

Well, I would say spending $500 without yet tracking properly is a bit silly.

Have you tested multiple landing pages and angles?

Testing just ad images is a very small part of the overall campaign testing. If you've done ~-25% ROI without split-testing any LPs, offers, and angles/ad copy, then there is still hope - but you should make sure you can track the profitability and performance of these variables first.

11-25-2014 09:13 PM #6 ggpaul (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by zeno View Post
Well, I would say spending $500 without yet tracking properly is a bit silly.

Have you tested multiple landing pages and angles?

Testing just ad images is a very small part of the overall campaign testing. If you've done ~-25% ROI without split-testing any LPs, offers, and angles/ad copy, then there is still hope - but you should make sure you can track the profitability and performance of these variables first.
I'm still trying to get the hang of angles. As far as angles, could that simply be a small change of ad copy? Or is that also picking a certain demo? Or also changing landing page? Or is that all?

I've tested two landing pages so far. Two very similar landing pages.

No, tracking was done just that I switched over to VPS afterwards because shared didn't give me all the info that I needed. It's been tracking since I invested my first $200.

11-25-2014 09:15 PM #7 ggpaul (Member)

Also, what exactly should I look out for when it comes to tracking? Should I pay attention as far as the average age group? I can provide all my info from prosper tonight as well.

11-26-2014 06:32 AM #8 zeno (Administrator)

Quote Originally Posted by ggpaul View Post
I'm still trying to get the hang of angles. As far as angles, could that simply be a small change of ad copy? Or is that also picking a certain demo? Or also changing landing page? Or is that all?
Not exactly.

You really, really need to get a handle on exactly what an angle is. Check out the angles forum - http://stmforum.com/forum/forumdispl...n-post-here%29

A small change in ad copy is rarely going to constitute a new angle. An angle is something that permeates through your ads, landers, and every creative marketing element you expose the user to. It starts with your banners.

A new angle may involve varying your targeting to select a different audience, tailoring the ad copy to that audience and highlighting a different aspect of the offer than appeals to them, then sending them to a lander that is congruent with that angle. You could also target the same audience as before but with new ad copy/imagery in the same way.

Imagine a game of volleyball and you're the tactics manager. You're playing some team. You want to find a new way of attacking them. Rookie manager who doesn't understand angles, he changes player positions, tactics for who's second on the ball, whether they should play it safe or constantly try to set spikes, etc. He's varying front-end elements by making minor changes.

They try their hardest but the effectiveness only changes ±20%. No major returns.

Now, experienced tactics manager, he comes in and says right, let's test some shit. He demands the team strip naked and play. They do, and the opposing teams eyes melt - they can't comprehend what's going on! How is this legal? How can we play people naked? How can we keep our eyes on the ball when there are now 8 other balls on the court and 4 boobs!??

It's super effective.

But the referee pauses the game and makes everyone put their clothes back on. Bah, angle down. What now? New angle. Let's go back to the original setup and try lots of short drop shots over the net. No! Those are still minor changes, small perturbations of the same angle!

We need a completely new angle.

The experienced manager appeals and demand the opposing team be replaced with women only who are single and 25-30. How can he do this? Who knows, magical targeting from the heavens! Now, he axes his entire team. Who does he bring on?

Sweet mother of Mary he brings on 6 rugged, bearded and topless, absolutely ripped US Marines. But wait... what is this? Oh god they each have a cloth bag on their backs with the cutest Beagles you've ever seen in them. Ripped military men with a sensitive side who love pets. The girls lose their s**t. Four of them join your team, the others lodge a complaint with the referee.

Welcome to angles!

Quote Originally Posted by ggpaul View Post
Also, what exactly should I look out for when it comes to tracking? Should I pay attention as far as the average age group? I can provide all my info from prosper tonight as well.
There are many variables you can track. Really, you should track them all without assumption and see what the data tells you. Age ranges is definitely a primary one to look at.

11-26-2014 04:26 PM #9 houssem (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by zeno View Post
Not exactly.

You really, really need to get a handle on exactly what an angle is. Check out the angles forum - http://stmforum.com/forum/forumdispl...n-post-here%29

A small change in ad copy is rarely going to constitute a new angle. An angle is something that permeates through your ads, landers, and every creative marketing element you expose the user to. It starts with your banners.

A new angle may involve varying your targeting to select a different audience, tailoring the ad copy to that audience and highlighting a different aspect of the offer than appeals to them, then sending them to a lander that is congruent with that angle. You could also target the same audience as before but with new ad copy/imagery in the same way.

Imagine a game of volleyball and you're the tactics manager. You're playing some team. You want to find a new way of attacking them. Rookie manager who doesn't understand angles, he changes player positions, tactics for who's second on the ball, whether they should play it safe or constantly try to set spikes, etc. He's varying front-end elements by making minor changes.

They try their hardest but the effectiveness only changes ±20%. No major returns.

Now, experienced tactics manager, he comes in and says right, let's test some shit. He demands the team strip naked and play. They do, and the opposing teams eyes melt - they can't comprehend what's going on! How is this legal? How can we play people naked? How can we keep our eyes on the ball when there are now 8 other balls on the court and 4 boobs!??

It's super effective.

But the referee pauses the game and makes everyone put their clothes back on. Bah, angle down. What now? New angle. Let's go back to the original setup and try lots of short drop shots over the net. No! Those are still minor changes, small perturbations of the same angle!

We need a completely new angle.

The experienced manager appeals and demand the opposing team be replaced with women only who are single and 25-30. How can he do this? Who knows, magical targeting from the heavens! Now, he axes his entire team. Who does he bring on?

Sweet mother of Mary he brings on 6 rugged, bearded and topless, absolutely ripped US Marines. But wait... what is this? Oh god they each have a cloth bag on their backs with the cutest Beagles you've ever seen in them. Ripped military men with a sensitive side who love pets. The girls lose their s**t. Four of them join your team, the others lodge a complaint with the referee.

Welcome to angles!



There are many variables you can track. Really, you should track them all without assumption and see what the data tells you. Age ranges is definitely a primary one to look at.
Apparently I still have a lot to learn about angles

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