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Geo-Based PayPerCall from PPC and Organic SEO (17)

10-12-2014 01:05 AM #1 thendricksen (Member)
Geo-Based PayPerCall from PPC and Organic SEO

Hey STMers! New member with a first time follow-along testing out a bit of a strategy shift for geo-based PayPerCall campaigns. My background is in building high-converting, high-ranking websites for larger companies and projects, so figured I’d play to my strengths with this project.

Project Intro
Basically, this will be testing out the idea of making a US based, state-specific website for a particular PayPerCall vertical, with individual pages for the top 20-30 cities in the state. Traffic would be coming from three diversified sources:

  1. Organic SEO to website (mostly geo-based search terms)
  2. Parasite Properties (Facebook Pages, YouTube videos, local citations, etc)
  3. Mobile PPC Traffic


Site Details
These sites will look and feel super-legit with an actual company brand built-up, attractive responsive website etc. From a nerdy technical level these sites are well-built: +98/100 Google Page Load Speed, all unique content, authority links, tons of photos, videos, extensive Schema.org markup (local business, reviews, agg rating, media objects, etc.).

Main conversion point will be the PayPerCall campaigns, which will all be routed through a local phone number I’ll be using for most of the promotions.

Why this approach?
Asset Value: Unlike many other AM projects, the rankings and traffic for this site have a definite asset value, and can be sold at a high multiple for earnings (20x monthly revenue from the Empire Flippers marketplace).

Higher QC: Unlike garbage landers, will be using location specific pages for the landing pages with unique content, media, authority links, etc (even though will be doing phone number based PPC ads), which will hopefully really increase QS, and bring the CPC down.

Diversified Traffic Sources and Page 1 Real Estate: By using a ton of the other parasite properties, like Facebook pages, YouTube videos, and a shit ton of local citations (about 30-40 per location page to mimic different business locations), will hopefully get more traffic, and claim multiple spots on Page 1.

High Value Client Rental: With this initial niche, there will be good potential for a monthly rental to multiple businesses within the state, for a decent $x,xxx monthly rental price.

Stackable and Scalable: Initial workload for a site is about 1-2 days and completely outsourcable, so this process is definitely scalable and stackable for many geo-areas, and multiple niches.


Action So Far (days 1-2)
Got some great progress so far on the initial build out:

- Whole Site built with 31 total location pages, all unique content, authority links, etc.
- For Each of the largest 7 cities:
--- Individual Facebook pages created
--- Local Citations Ordered (30 per location)
--- Unique YouTube Videos made and published for each
- Applied for PayPerCall campaigns on 3 networks (6 total campaigns)


Initial Results
Nothing so far in terms of results, but only after about 2 days, initial rankings for most of the location pages are in the range of page 2 - page 4 for their individual city terms - [city] [main keyword], which is pretty sweet.

The videos are also starting to show up on the first few pages too (no first pagers yet, but will get there).


Updates
Will try to post updates every week or so to keep updated on progress / results!

Any questions on this stuff, please feel free to ask. Also would love any feedback / ideas on new and better ways to do this stuff from guys really killing it in the space.

Thanks everyone!

10-13-2014 11:05 AM #2 caurmen (Administrator)

Sounds very interesting and very promising. I particularly like the focus on building a solid asset rather than just a revenue stream!

Will be following this one with interest.

10-14-2014 09:24 AM #3 dvir0776 (Member)

holy sh1t that sounds well thought of, my favorite parts are building an asset and leveraging your existing skills. Good luck!

10-14-2014 11:32 AM #4 solaris (Member)

Sounds like an excellent plan, looking forward to hearing your progress.

10-14-2014 12:02 PM #5 cmdeal (Veteran Member)

Great! I'll be following this one.

I would normally suggest that you focus solely on paid traffic to accelerate your market validation efforts, but it looks like you have a solid plan for action already in place. So go for it!

10-14-2014 02:35 PM #6 marketone (Member)

Sounds like a great setup!
So let me ask you is your goal to bring organic geo specific traffic to the sites and rent them for a monthly fee?
Or do you plan to direct the traffic to an affiliate ppcall campaign? Only reason i ask is that you mentioned applying to 3 networks for ppcall offers.
How do you gauge how much to charge these companies to lease your site?
Do you lease them the whole site or just give them ad space?
Also what is your Mobile PPC plan for this campaign?
I have seen Viper Chill talk about similar setups. Definitely keeping an eye on this follow along.

10-14-2014 03:03 PM #7 thendricksen (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by marketone View Post
Sounds like a great setup!
So let me ask you is your goal to bring organic geo specific traffic to the sites and rent them for a monthly fee?
Or do you plan to direct the traffic to an affiliate ppcall campaign? Only reason i ask is that you mentioned applying to 3 networks for ppcall offers.
How do you gauge how much to charge these companies to lease your site?
Do you lease them the whole site or just give them ad space?
Also what is your Mobile PPC plan for this campaign?
I have seen Viper Chill talk about similar setups. Definitely keeping an eye on this follow along.
Monthly ranked website rental is a business that I've dabbled in (city-based plastic surgery getting a few leads per month, and a huge nationwide tax relief project that is starting to climb onto pages 1 and 2 for some huge cities around the US), and am diving into head-first now. SSOOO much value and potential to be had. I have a law firm as a SEO client, and increased traffic 50%, which increased leads by about 75% (with some conversion optimization), which they probably make an additional high $xx,xxx of revenue per month from. Business owners will throw money at you for those kind of results.

I think there is room for both models, and it really depends on two things for deciding which one to go with:

1) Average client value of business
2) Geographic region

I think that the monthly rental has a higher monetization potential than PayPerCall just based on pure numbers:

Monthly Rental approach for business owners - "I am getting 30-40 calls per month that I will be sending to either you or [direct competitor]. I know that each client/project is worth about $5k - $8k, so this has the potential of generating $xx,xxx additional revenue for your business. Want to rent it for $3k - $5k per month?"

PayPerCall - Will need to consistently generate a much higher volume of calls to match the payout numbers. At $15 / call I would need 200 calls to get that $3k mark. This can be done with PPC, but isn't as sexy / profitable.

For this project, I will start things off with PayPerCall offers because you can't really pitch a tech repair company with no volume and leads going through. PayPerCall will get the money flowing, as well as test market validity and get a good grasp on total leads per month.

This project is also state-focused, and not city-focused, so there is a potential for higher volume overall (with PPC included), for ranking for Long Tail terms for all the little cities and boroughs that have no competition, and can generate a few calls per month. State-focused is also a bit harder to rent out, because chances are that the company doesn't service the entire state, and would have wasted leads.

Site-wide rental vs a single page is dependent on the site itself, and which services it ranks for. If I can rank for Services A, B, C and D, but Joe Schmo Inc. only does Service A, I could only rent a portion (for a smaller price). But obviously I like to tailor websites to cover what a single business usually does, so I can rent out the whole site.

Rentals in high-value industries are all about ROI for the business. You need to generate their business about 5x - 10x more revenue than you charge, and they'll be happy as a clam. Pricing is also based solely on that. Always price on value, not cost.

As for mobile PPC, I'm still getting a grasp of that. I think that a general [keyword] [location] based approach will be successful, but I will also throw in targeting a scrape of all competitors in the geo-region as well, for lower PPC values.

Any suggestions on how to dominate PPC for this type of endeavor? Would love to hear from you guys on this, as it's really not my area of expertise.

Ya, Glen at @ViperChill has some great knowledge and experience into this stuff too, and is where I've taken some of the techniques from. Might have to see if he wants to partner on a larger campaign! He takes care of SEO and backlinks, and I'll build out balla sites!

10-14-2014 04:12 PM #8 thendricksen (Member)

Aaannnddd just got my first call coming through (forwarded to my cell phone). I still haven't been approved for any tech support PayPerCall campaigns yet (@RingPartner is still reviewing, and said it's an exclusive campaign), but only 4 days after starting the whole project, with purely organic SEO reach and parasite properties, I have a conversion.

Sign of good things to come

10-14-2014 04:14 PM #9 cmdeal (Veteran Member)

Awesome!

10-14-2014 11:26 PM #10 marketone (Member)

Good deal man!!! Keep us posted!

11-07-2015 06:30 AM #11 vpaidi (Member)

Thats interesting approach. How did you plan tracking to optimize/calculate conversion metrics? Especially with so many pages and numbers.

12-03-2015 04:36 PM #12 makeitrain (Member)

This looks great! Any updates?

12-24-2015 04:49 AM #13 t33media (Member)

Interested to hear of any positive updates

07-18-2016 07:02 PM #14 thendricksen (Member)

So after a bit of time away from the forum and this post, I figured it's time for an update!

As of right now, this exact model is generating about $40k/m in profit, almost entirely from organic SEO, so profit margin is like 95%. I have it spread across a number of niches and industries, split between PayPerCall networks and private clients, and currently have a team building out these sites full time.

Some of the sites are nationwide networks (50 state sub-domain sites, each with 5 - 30 cities), and some are much more geographic specific (focused on 1 state, with about 10-20 cities).

I've found a few things helpful:

1) High Payout Offers Are Awesome
I only promote and build networks around offers that pay out more than $20 per lead. For the same amount of work building out the sites, I'd much rather make $50 for every paid call in higher $ industries (often less competition), than $7 on a local services term. This is more important for the organic SEO side than the PPC, but I'll get into that in a minute.

2) Build It to Last
So many affiliate marketers are just trying to be lazy, find a super low friction angle for being able to promote an offer, slap up a crappy landing page, and hopefully convert it within a minute or two. Not only are people starting to see through this type of stuff, but it's not nearly as effective and building out a solid landing page, with great direct-response style copy that actually gets people excited to call-in. All my sites are beautifully built-out landing pages, that walk people through a miniature sales-letter styled process. I've found that this produces tons more trust in the eyes of the visitor, which leads to higher conversion rates and much higher payouts. Now I have templates and frameworks to make the process way faster, but it's definitely worth the extra effort.


The next frontier that I'm setting up for is the paid traffic side of things. As of right now, I don't have any PPC, FB or any sort of paid ads pushing traffic to these sites. There is SO MUCH room in this space, both for the demographic targeting side (FB and Pinterest) and the query based (Adwords and Bing call only ads), that I'm trying to learn as much as I can to get it up and going quickly.

Right now my traffic is too dependent on SEO, and with the dual approach of SEO and paid traffic, these networks will not only be faster and more profitable to launch and get going (as the SEO process is freaking slow sometimes), but will have a higher asset value in the long term with diversified and stable traffic with solid conversions.

So any questions you guys have about this?

07-18-2016 07:07 PM #15 vyapari (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by thendricksen View Post
So after a bit of time away from the forum and this post, I figured it's time for an update!

As of right now, this exact model is generating about $40k/m in profit, almost entirely from organic SEO, so profit margin is like 95%. I have it spread across a number of niches and industries, split between PayPerCall networks and private clients, and currently have a team building out these sites full time.

Some of the sites are nationwide networks (50 state sub-domain sites, each with 5 - 30 cities), and some are much more geographic specific (focused on 1 state, with about 10-20 cities).

I've found a few things helpful:

1) High Payout Offers Are Awesome
I only promote and build networks around offers that pay out more than $20 per lead. For the same amount of work building out the sites, I'd much rather make $50 for every paid call in higher $ industries (often less competition), than $7 on a local services term. This is more important for the organic SEO side than the PPC, but I'll get into that in a minute.

2) Build It to Last
So many affiliate marketers are just trying to be lazy, find a super low friction angle for being able to promote an offer, slap up a crappy landing page, and hopefully convert it within a minute or two. Not only are people starting to see through this type of stuff, but it's not nearly as effective and building out a solid landing page, with great direct-response style copy that actually gets people excited to call-in. All my sites are beautifully built-out landing pages, that walk people through a miniature sales-letter styled process. I've found that this produces tons more trust in the eyes of the visitor, which leads to higher conversion rates and much higher payouts. Now I have templates and frameworks to make the process way faster, but it's definitely worth the extra effort.


The next frontier that I'm setting up for is the paid traffic side of things. As of right now, I don't have any PPC, FB or any sort of paid ads pushing traffic to these sites. There is SO MUCH room in this space, both for the demographic targeting side (FB and Pinterest) and the query based (Adwords and Bing call only ads), that I'm trying to learn as much as I can to get it up and going quickly.

Right now my traffic is too dependent on SEO, and with the dual approach of SEO and paid traffic, these networks will not only be faster and more profitable to launch and get going (as the SEO process is freaking slow sometimes), but will have a higher asset value in the long term with diversified and stable traffic with solid conversions.

So any questions you guys have about this?
Bud, I have done SEO for the past 2 years.. all in insurance niche ... build 100 site pbn, learned to get sape directly, competed with insurance companies with xxxxx/m budgets and out ranked them... once thing I will tell you is this.

DONT depend on SEO only. Look into other ways of generating traffic.. even adwords is as good as your competitors pocket.

G's next rollout could slap your rankings without a 1% chance of recovery.

I lost my office, car, and basically everything that was on a finance plan within a few months.

Just my 2 cents, other than that, great job. STM bro!

08-10-2016 11:18 AM #16 xentaa (AMC Alumnus)

Quote Originally Posted by thendricksen View Post
Hey STMers! New member with a first time follow-along testing out a bit of a strategy shift for geo-based PayPerCall campaigns. My background is in building high-converting, high-ranking websites for larger companies and projects, so figured I’d play to my strengths with this project.

Project Intro
Basically, this will be testing out the idea of making a US based, state-specific website for a particular PayPerCall vertical, with individual pages for the top 20-30 cities in the state. Traffic would be coming from three diversified sources:

  1. Organic SEO to website (mostly geo-based search terms)
  2. Parasite Properties (Facebook Pages, YouTube videos, local citations, etc)
  3. Mobile PPC Traffic


Site Details
These sites will look and feel super-legit with an actual company brand built-up, attractive responsive website etc. From a nerdy technical level these sites are well-built: +98/100 Google Page Load Speed, all unique content, authority links, tons of photos, videos, extensive Schema.org markup (local business, reviews, agg rating, media objects, etc.).

Main conversion point will be the PayPerCall campaigns, which will all be routed through a local phone number I’ll be using for most of the promotions.

Why this approach?
Asset Value: Unlike many other AM projects, the rankings and traffic for this site have a definite asset value, and can be sold at a high multiple for earnings (20x monthly revenue from the Empire Flippers marketplace).

Higher QC: Unlike garbage landers, will be using location specific pages for the landing pages with unique content, media, authority links, etc (even though will be doing phone number based PPC ads), which will hopefully really increase QS, and bring the CPC down.

Diversified Traffic Sources and Page 1 Real Estate: By using a ton of the other parasite properties, like Facebook pages, YouTube videos, and a shit ton of local citations (about 30-40 per location page to mimic different business locations), will hopefully get more traffic, and claim multiple spots on Page 1.

High Value Client Rental: With this initial niche, there will be good potential for a monthly rental to multiple businesses within the state, for a decent $x,xxx monthly rental price.

Stackable and Scalable: Initial workload for a site is about 1-2 days and completely outsourcable, so this process is definitely scalable and stackable for many geo-areas, and multiple niches.


Action So Far (days 1-2)
Got some great progress so far on the initial build out:

- Whole Site built with 31 total location pages, all unique content, authority links, etc.
- For Each of the largest 7 cities:
--- Individual Facebook pages created
--- Local Citations Ordered (30 per location)
--- Unique YouTube Videos made and published for each
- Applied for PayPerCall campaigns on 3 networks (6 total campaigns)


Initial Results
Nothing so far in terms of results, but only after about 2 days, initial rankings for most of the location pages are in the range of page 2 - page 4 for their individual city terms - [city] [main keyword], which is pretty sweet.

The videos are also starting to show up on the first few pages too (no first pagers yet, but will get there).


Updates
Will try to post updates every week or so to keep updated on progress / results!

Any questions on this stuff, please feel free to ask. Also would love any feedback / ideas on new and better ways to do this stuff from guys really killing it in the space.

Thanks everyone!
wow This is gold, thanks!

08-11-2016 12:12 PM #17 RajPatel (Member)

Amazing journey - and great results! I have been experimenting in the SEO space with pay per call as well, in the last 5 years all my pay per call has been ad driven (offline/online) but recently in 2016 i noticed a lot of my sites are getting organic calls (loving that) so I see how your approach is solid (but high risk as google algo could wipe it all out - again depending on your ranking tactics..).. I will hopefully be sharing my results in a journey thread on here soon too.. Amazing, and keep up the great work! Inspiring.

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