having a go at Pay per Call -->daily reports (54)

Hi everyone!
Freaking uncomfortable starting this thread, good sign I guess.

I will have a go at pay per call campaigns using bing ads (can't use adwords), report here daily on the action that I took, and actually report here what's going on (as opposed to my last follow along). This forum is too valuable and I'm not utilizing the knowledge here as well as I should be.

My ONE thing to get done every day is --> launching a new campaign. As soon as I start my work day I'll focus only on launching a new offer.

At the end of the day I'll report:
1. If I launched a campaign and kept my promise
2. roi for the last day for running offers.

let's get started!

ok, day 0 report:
1. Did I launch a new campaign - NO
2. roi for last day- 0% no campaigns atm

So I have the campaign ready but awaiting bing ads approvel. Meaning tomorrow I'll launch two campaigns.
search traffic feels very alien right now, but it's not a problem.

Very cool. Looking forward to hearing how you get on!

Great to hear. Looking forward to the follow up!

Let me know if I can help you get started

Awesome! Look forward to tracking your success. If I can be of any help, feel free to reach out.

No pressure man but I have subscribed to this follow along.

I am looking at getting into PPCall myself so will definitely be interested on how you get along.

First question, when you say create and launch a new campaign daily, do you mean for different offers or angles? I feel like this is achievable up to a point, whereby you have far to many campaigns to deal with. I guess you then spend a day (or everyday?) checking how the campaign is performing (any conversions) and pause/kill the campaign if no good.

Would you set up a new campaign for a failed one and if so, how many times?

Awesome dude, lets see how this goes bro!

Originally Posted by matthavok

No pressure man but I have subscribed to this follow along.

I am looking at getting into PPCall myself so will definitely be interested on how you get along.

First question, when you say create and launch a new campaign daily, do you mean for different offers or angles? I feel like this is achievable up to a point, whereby you have far to many campaigns to deal with. I guess you then spend a day (or everyday?) checking how the campaign is performing (any conversions) and pause/kill the campaign if no good.

Would you set up a new campaign for a failed one and if so, how many times?

day 1:
1. Did I launch a new campaign - YES
2. roi for last day- 0%

I've got 3 campaigns for 3 offers ready, phew... I'm awaiting approvel for 2 of them, the 3rd is good but awaiting the guys on the other side of the planet to wake up and start answering my leads!! hehe

Holy shit that's some support, thanks for everyone following. Now I cannot dissapoint!

day 2:
1. Did I launch a new campaign - YES, 2
2. roi for last day- 0%

So yesterday's stats were interesting, 2 campaigns zero clicks
campaign 1: 556 imp, avg pos 7.6
camapign 2: 240 imp, avg pos 2.11 (fuck and still no clicks?!)

to improve ctr I worked on ad copy, and testing ~10 ads for every campaign.
Let's see where this goes.

Originally Posted by dvir0776

day 2:
1. Did I launch a new campaign - YES, 2
2. roi for last day- 0%

So yesterday's stats were interesting, 2 campaigns zero clicks
campaign 1: 556 imp, avg pos 7.6
camapign 2: 240 imp, avg pos 2.11 (fuck and still no clicks?!)

to improve ctr I worked on ad copy, and testing ~10 ads for every campaign.
Let's see where this goes.

holy sh1t mikeyboy that's a knowledge bomb!

action plan:
1. lower from 10 ads to 2 with different angles
2. figure out how to do keyword insertion and do it in the ads (still didn't get to that yet, wanted to take action and move from there. I'll do it now).
3. still no QS shown
4. wtf is the highlight extention --> find out and implement in ads
5. change ad titles to *search keyword*: *keyword from campaign*
6. report here when done

Q: Did you make for every keyword an ad group? YES following premium23 here
regarding ad titles: I use premium23 way

awesome signature you got there

update: finished
questions:
What's the highlight extension? you mean the phone call extension that shows the number? is so I use it. if not what is it?
sent you a pm about extra question, feel free to answer there or here

pheeew

Not sure what you mean about "highlight extensions" but here are the different types of extensions available on Adwords:

https://support.google.com/adwords/a...99?hl=en#shown

mm I checked the stats and still not even 1 click, 250imp and avg pos is 2.6, wtf?

Here is an example ad I used in bing ads, what do you think?

{KeyWord:Computer} Solutions
94% Success Rates
Call 1-855-972-5432
Tech Pros

If you're running "tech support" vertical, be careful...http://www.informationweek.com/secur...keti/240008480

thanks for the advice!

I have a problem, I try the bing ad preview tool search for my keywords and in the results it says that my ads match, but they don't show it due to "landing page isn’t highly relevant to the keyword"

So now I'm using DKI in 4 differnet places on the lander. How else would you go about it?

good luck sir, hope to see u make some good progress!

day 3:
1. Did I launch a new campaign - YES, 2
2. roi for last day- 0%

So same story, about 250 imp 0 clicks. I asked myself how to improve ctr and used DKI into my ads and also into my landers to improve their QS. Judging by today's results so far 600 imp 0 clicks lol man that's pretty amazing considering avg pos is fucking 1.16!!

todo: view my ads real time in the search results. The must be looking extra NOT special for these stats.

Ouch, that's pretty low for adwords.

If you share a few of your ads here you may be able to get some suggestions from more experienced Adwords folks!

Why do you use bing instead of AdWords? ;-) Bing has like 5% of all the traffic. If you want to get bing going just go 'crazy' broad. Ex: Personal Injury Lawyer New York. Your KW has to be ( to get some data) Lawyer New York.

Q: Whats your current bid?

ok. I'm using bing because I had past problems with adwords, so can't use them.
I figured why my ad isn't showing it says my landing page isn't relevent.

DIAGNOSTICS REASON:
Low Landing Page Relevance

DESCRIPTION:
Your landing page isn’t highly relevant to your keyword.

SUGGESTED ACTION:
Change your landing page to accurately reflect the intent of the keyword.


1)How do I improve the relevency when I'm targeting a lot of keywords?
I'm using dynamic keyword insertion in my lander. Although I don't know if bing takes this into account.

bidding 0.2$/click, I'll double that now to see if I get traffic.

2)I'm running two ads right now for empire today offer, here they are:

Upgrade The {KeyWord:House}
In Home Estimate
Call 1-888-338-1111
Expert Advice

A Dream {KeyWord:House}
Call Now
Call 1-888-338-1111
In Home Experts

3)And for the tech campaigns:

Upgrade Your {KeyWord:PC}
Make It Ninja Fast
Call 1-855-972-5855
Tech Masters

{KeyWord:Computer} Solutions
94% Success Rates
Call 1-855-972-5855
Tech Pros



Let me know what you think
Thaaaaank you

I'm not sure if dynamic keyword insertion on the lander will get picked up by them as they likely check your lander URL as is, without keyword insertion.

Not 100% on that - it would be great if they did, since their automated system probably checks the lander against every keyword.

If you are running lots of different keywords, AFAIK the solution is to split things into separate campaigns to tailor landers to each keyword or set of similar keywords.

As zeno said, split up the ad groups into similar kws and tailor LP's to match. If ur using on page keyword insertion on the LPs, it should pick that up and add to the quality score.

Your ads aren't very enticing.. Try running some different ad text.

One big problem you may be having with your ad copy is that it's hard to tell what you're actually advertising.

What are the offers that you're promoting, and what do they claim to do for people?

good points! It's freaking unclear what I'm advertising.
but first:

day 4:
1. Did I launch a new campaign - YES, 1
2. roi for last day- 0%

Had a tough day, learned how to create ads and lps more tailored to the search query. Oh just like zeno and matthavok said, great I'm on the right path!

How's this ad for example:
title: {keyword from adgroup related to carpets i.e. Affordable Carpets}
desc: 50% OFF! Free in house appointment. 25,000+ Happy Customers. Call now!
display url: Carpet-Pros.mysite.com

I (and I think many people on this board) still have absolutely no idea what you are advertising

okok, I guess now we're at conscious incompetence stage, I suck and I know it
I was too busy with "improving" my ads that I forgot to pass the point through

Lemme write some new ads:

Carpeting service for your home
We will install carpets and offer a free in home estimate. Call today!
Carpet Pros


Install a carpet in your home
Choose the perfect carpet for you. Free in home estimate. Call today!
Expert Carpeters

Let me know what you think!

p.s. It's been 6 days and I still haven't gotten a single click. I've been thinking about quitting but for now I'd stick with it and keep the mantra I've been telling myself - the hard is what makes it great. the hard is what makes it great.

No clicks equals no money, so no loss. Once you start paying for shit and get no conversion, then you need to start stressing haha.

Originally Posted by matthavok

No clicks equals no money, so no loss. Once you start paying for shit and get no conversion, then you need to start stressing haha.

Congrats on the conversion, btw!

This is how it works - one tiny victory, then a lot of swearing, then another tiny victory, repeat until you're at the level of success you want to hit!

sure thing, here's my lander, please point the biggest problems and I'll fix em tomorrow

Is this a desktop lander?

nope it's mobile lander. Usually I make them shorter but I made it longer to improve keyword relevency.

I would definitely test a more sleek-styled version and would move any specials/discounts to the top - lead with the biggest benefit!

Originally Posted by dvir0776

nope it's mobile lander. Usually I make them shorter but I made it longer to improve keyword relevency.

Ok, I'll try to make it more sleek and put the benefits at the top, I'll share here when done.

Cmdeal, all my traffic is mobile, it's a pay per call offer (empiretoday.com), you think it's worth testing on desktop as well? haven't heard about anyone doing pay per call on desktop (which may be a good thing).

No you should test dramatically shortening your landers (like by 80%) reinforcing the same messaging from the ad in short snappy bullet points, and making it difficult for the user not to click on your page without initiating a call.

Fantastic!

i am also new in PPC, and i also decide to share my progress here in follow along.
I am looking forward to your big success!

ok, here's the lander i created, it's 55kb, but I guess it's acceptable for US/CA. took me 2.5 hours to make. I'm pretty proud of it but worried about QS since it's so short.



1)What do you think?

UPDATE: another question: something pretty weird happend, last 2 days I got zero calls vs 6 calls in one day before that.

I checked and the ads and landers are working, meaning the call extension is fine, so I'm guessing it means on weekends people don't call AT ALL? I got both ad clicks on the number and on the lander, so I'm assuming the issue isn't with the lander/ad but rather with the caller itself?

2)Do you think weekends really kill the urge to call that much?
3)How many ads should I test per adgroup? bing has an "optimize for clicks" option so I see no reason why not use 5+ ads per adgroup, currently I'm using 3.

Originally Posted by dvir0776

ok, here's the lander i created, it's 55kb, but I guess it's acceptable for US/CA. took me 2.5 hours to make. I'm pretty proud of it but worried about QS since it's so short.



1)What do you think?

UPDATE: another question: something pretty weird happend, last 2 days I got zero calls vs 6 calls in one day before that.

I checked and the ads and landers are working, meaning the call extension is fine, so I'm guessing it means on weekends people don't call AT ALL? I got both ad clicks on the number and on the lander, so I'm assuming the issue isn't with the lander/ad but rather with the caller itself?

2)Do you think weekends really kill the urge to call that much?
3)How many ads should I test per adgroup? bing has an "optimize for clicks" option so I see no reason why not use 5+ ads per adgroup, currently I'm using 3.

Make sure the buttons are clickable btw so it brings up the dialer on the phone. It's as simple as assigning a tel: tag.

<a href = "tel:555-555-5555">Order My Carpet</a>

So Here's my take on it DVIR -

1) Looks good, but needs to be more eye catching (people focused images)
2) Focus on the BENEFITS, and not the FEATURES

But I'll put my money where my mouth is - here's my quick redesign take on it -



Changes I made:
- Re-Added image to show people how happy they would be in the shoes of these people
- Call to Action Buttons -> Focused on immediate question that caller will have ("How much is this going to be?")
- Click to Call button above headline to encourage call again
- Benefit driven headline about what having new carpet would mean to their lives
- Benefit-driven list items with bolded and contrasting color phrases to catch attention of 'skimmers'
- Another CTA on the bottom.

Booya.

Oh also, a little trick on relevance and QC I picked up from some dudes doing super high PPC volume - if you don't want a shit ton of text on your page, but it in an expandable/collapsible section in the footer with a non-chelant looking CTA (ie - 'More'). That way, you can pack in the relevant text without having an essay for a landing page.

waaa too much good info -- overload.

@thendricksen, that lander looks amazing imo, I now understand how much I was missing out on the featurs vs benefits part. thanks for putting in the time!

Actionable steps:
- modify my lander to feature most of your suggestions
- test it
- create an identical version with stuffed kw desc with shitty cta. (I saw ppl doing it but I didn't ask myself why! should have realized this on my own).
- test the QS so see differences

aaaaaand... GO

Lots of good tips here, however, if 99-100% of the calls are mobile through the call extensions then your landing page is irrelevant. Except for QS, which only really matters at the start, before you have any performance data.

So, when driving calls from search (NOT to a landing page), the IVR becomes your landing page. If you're marketing to a niche, this is your chance to "bridge the gap" between your niche and the end campaign. You can create your own call promotion, or we can customize the call flow for you. We can do this at the publisher lever, per campaign, or at the phone number level.

There's a lot of great advice here, but it only applies to your campaign if you're sending clicks to the LP. If you're goal is to send 100% mobile click to calls through the extension, then you'll want to figure out how you can close off some of the click leakage and turn those into direct calls.

Hope this helps! The IVR is your Landing Page with Pay Per Call

Originally Posted by ringpartner

Lots of good tips here, however, if 99-100% of the calls are mobile through the call extensions then your landing page is irrelevant. Except for QS, which only really matters at the start, before you have any performance data.

So, when driving calls from search (NOT to a landing page), the IVR becomes your landing page. If you're marketing to a niche, this is your chance to "bridge the gap" between your niche and the end campaign. You can create your own call promotion, or we can customize the call flow for you. We can do this at the publisher lever, per campaign, or at the phone number level.

There's a lot of great advice here, but it only applies to your campaign if you're sending clicks to the LP. If you're goal is to send 100% mobile click to calls through the extension, then you'll want to figure out how you can close off some of the click leakage and turn those into direct calls.

Hope this helps! The IVR is your Landing Page with Pay Per Call

damn it lost access to my email account and didn't login here last 5 days.

UPDATE: Got profitable on one campaign, but need to set up tracking via ring pool. It's not statistically significant yet.
Damn it so many technical difficulties man, on paper it looks easy and simple, well for me it isn't! but enough complaining

next steps:
- set up ringpools
- split test another lander
- gather statistically significant data

Why are u going to set up ringpools?
Why are u going to test another lander?

Just focus on getting more data in. Just rethink your angle, research competitors (http://stmforum.com/forum/showthread...with-LiveLinks) etc.

Use a ringpool to know which keywords are profiting for you. I'd suggest you not follow posts that suggests you to scale without doing that. A ringpool assigns a dynamic number per visitor. What you can do if you have a lot of keywords is to group them per number.

Like "carpet dealers" and "carpet dealers california" would be in the same group.

mm, My QS dropped and I'm trying to understand why. I think it's because I'm redirecting through Voluum and the search engine doesn't like it, meaning when they click the ad they're redirected to trackvoluum.com/f1f42gfdsb242t1, etc.

What do you think?
If Voluum screws up my QS what do I do? just find another tracking option? I'm using ringpools but wanted to try other variables such as OS, etc.

I'll split test the campaign with and without the voluum redirect and let you know.

Ok, this is going to be the final update, I quit pay per call, it's been a month, and I have'nt achieved success. I feel like I dissapointed a lot of you, and I also dissapointed myself.

With that being said, my decision is final. I started testing yesterday new offers on mobile, and you can feel free to see my new follow along with LP included App Installs on Airpush + Creatives Included *COME AT ME*

The biggest problem I've had with bing was scaling, and I'm not going to repeat that. Yes I know I can make it work, but I'd rather do something not search related.

I'd still like to hear your feedback if you have any, harsh as it may be

Again, please critize my new follow along here App Installs on Airpush + Creatives Included *COME AT ME*
Dvir

Sorry to hear you've quit.

All you can really do is try and learn, and hopefully what you've learned will apply to something else that you succeed it.

I don't believe you've quit forever, as there will be other pay per call campaigns in the future that may work.

Also, pay per call is a type of conversion, not a traffic source. So, you may find a traffic source in the future that would work great for pay per call.

Best of luck!

Originally Posted by cmdeal

Giving up too easily is the worst thing you can you. Not just in AM but in life.

Learning is a messy, organic process.

Everyone learns at a different pace.

One common factor in learning anything however, is that hard work is unavoidable.

Here's a graph you should print out and hang on your wall:



Whenever you begin learning a new subject such as maths, science, programming, a new language, or the piano, or affiliate marketing, your enthusiasm level soars. Basic concepts are simple and easy to grasp, everything is fresh and new = this is fun!

Then comes the trough where simple things, just aren't so simple anymore. Concepts become more complex and harder to understand, everything is old hat = this is not fun anymore.

With work and perseverance, you eventually master the more advanced material and pass the inflection point, and gain confidence. Advanced concepts become easy, you get to apply the knowledge in new and interesting ways of your own choosing = this is way more fun than it was before!

When the going gets tough before the inflection point, many people tend to push back.

You see this in kids a lot. They scream. They cry. They refuse to go to school. They throw tantrums. At this point, and out of misplaced protectiveness, many parents simply, well, give up.

I have never met a so-called child prodigy who did not experience this trough or did not have a lot of hard work and perseverance behind his/her achievements.

Not one.

The idea that natural talent is all you need to achieve your goals and that natural talent means everything will come easy is false, but many people still hold on to it.

The trough is a natural and inescapable part of human learning. What's more, it's not just that one trough, but a series of troughs in any given discipline.

There is no gain without pain.

And those who quit at the first sign of pain will never make true progress in life.

Follow your own forum signature ... hard work is what makes it great.

Adapted from http://www.quora.com/What-are-common...e-of-ignorance